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 Carnage43 wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Just got to look at the next weeks white dwarf and was able to make out most of the page for sanguinary guard. The points costs listed earlier were accurate (165 for 5 dudes), and they came with the same wargear as before but had standard "sword encarmines" which could be traded for "axe encarmines" at no cost. Chapter banner took a 5 point discount, other points costs i couldnt make out, but the best is yet to come.

Firstly, the option was there to add up to 5 ADDITIONAL sanguinary guard, increasing the squad size to 10. Finally, they came with the fearless and furious charge special rule. Interestingly, the dreadnought on the opposite page (whos info was much less clear) ALSO had the furious charge special rule. I think all blood angels come standard with it now, which would be amazing.

That, or it's specifically listed because almost no one else gets it.

Why not just make it an army wide rule if everyone were to get it?

Space Wolves all have Acute Senses and Counter-attack but it's listed flat instead of as an army wide rule. Seems to reason that all Blood Angels might have Furious Charge now. If it's true.

Army-wide furious charge without having to roll for Angry Marines would be too damn sweet.

So sweet that it would never happen, I wager.

 Olgerth Istaarn wrote:
Army-wide furious charge without having to roll for Angry Marines would be too damn sweet.

So sweet that it would never happen, I wager.

Im telling you, if i was a betting man i would put $$$ on it being army wide. The dread that had it was a regular non furioso dread. Also blood talons are an upgrade, though i couldnt read points costs.

Still, a 33 point sanguinary guard with stock furious charge is a dream come true for me.

DO IT TO IT wrote:

Space Wolves all have Acute Senses and Counter-attack but it's listed flat instead of as an army wide rule. Seems to reason that all Blood Angels might have Furious Charge now. If it's true.

While it is better than nothing or worst yet *random roll* I mean cinematic... furious charge got worse in 6/7th and counterattack got better in 7e. In any case, didn't every blood angel have it back in 3rd edition?

Probably....but that severely undercuts the buffs the sang priests provide. He's down to basically FnP bubble now, at best.

33 point sang guard are.....marginal, leaning towards poor IMO. 30 is as high as I would have expected.

 Carnage43 wrote:
That, or it's specifically listed because almost no one else gets it.

Why not just make it an army wide rule if everyone were to get it?

They didn't do that with Space Wolves and 'Acute Senses'. Maybe there's a handful of units that won't get the rule (Servitors, etc.).

 kitch102 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:
Thanks to the replies about the Iron Hands question I had. Sound slike there was a big change in the fluff for that one.

The previous posters are both bang on, and this seems to be where their mantra of "The flesh is weak" originates. I'd only be reiterating what's already been said by going in to this, but damn, you must really hate your father figure to start replacing your own body parts with bionics just so you could become less like him!

I recently read "The Damnation of Pythos" (a HH novel about the Iron Hands) and it explores all of these questions in some detail. Not subtly or movingly, but in detail.


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 Carnage43 wrote:
Probably....but that severely undercuts the buffs the sang priests provide. He's down to basically FnP bubble now, at best.

33 point sang guard are.....marginal, leaning towards poor IMO. 30 is as high as I would have expected.

No, I'm chuffed. Terminators are 40 points base, right, and Sanguinary Guard are also 2+ (I know they don't have Invul) and are immensely more mobile. If the Furious Charge rule is correct, that's much better too. So I'd be happy for sure. If the chapter banner has not changed, they could have +1 attack each at +1 strength, and with mastercrafted power weapons. That's pretty great on the charge.

 pantheralegionnaire wrote:

 kitch102 wrote:

 DarthOvious wrote:
Thanks to the replies about the Iron Hands question I had. Sound slike there was a big change in the fluff for that one.

The previous posters are both bang on, and this seems to be where their mantra of "The flesh is weak" originates. I'd only be reiterating what's already been said by going in to this, but damn, you must really hate your father figure to start replacing your own body parts with bionics just so you could become less like him!

I recently read "The Damnation of Pythos" (a HH novel about the Iron Hands) and it explores all of these questions in some detail. Not subtly or movingly, but in detail.


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 Carnage43 wrote:
Probably....but that severely undercuts the buffs the sang priests provide. He's down to basically FnP bubble now, at best.

33 point sang guard are.....marginal, leaning towards poor IMO. 30 is as high as I would have expected.

No, I'm chuffed. Terminators are 40 points base, right, and Sanguinary Guard are also 2+ (I know they don't have Invul) and are immensely more mobile. If the Furious Charge rule is correct, that's much better too. So I'd be happy for sure. If the chapter banner has not changed, they could have +1 attack each at +1 strength, and with mastercrafted power weapons. That's pretty great on the charge.

Agree, not a horrible point cost for something that is basically a very mobile Terminator with a possibility to stick a priest around them for FNP bubble. yea I'll take it.


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The Furious Charge thing is ok, it of course makes just a ton of sense for them to have it. However since the rule it self isn't as great as it used to be its dang sure not game breaking.

Personally it would've been much more dangerous to give us Counter attack, sadly I had a lot of my opponents start to realize that if I got to close to them that it was in fact better for them to just go ahead and charge me before I got the chance to charge them. That way I would start to lose some of my special rules

Did anyone else notice THIS THING?

 pantheralegionnaire wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Carnage43 wrote:
Probably....but that severely undercuts the buffs the sang priests provide. He's down to basically FnP bubble now, at best.

33 point sang guard are.....marginal, leaning towards poor IMO. 30 is as high as I would have expected.

No, I'm chuffed. Terminators are 40 points base, right, and Sanguinary Guard are also 2+ (I know they don't have Invul) and are immensely more mobile. If the Furious Charge rule is correct, that's much better too. So I'd be happy for sure. If the chapter banner has not changed, they could have +1 attack each at +1 strength, and with mastercrafted power weapons. That's pretty great on the charge.

Space marine honor guard are 25 points base, and have the extra weapon bonus, and are 8 points, or about a quarter cheaper.

Is the jump pack, furious charge (which is....not worth points since it's their chapter trait) and upgrading from a bolt pistol to a DOUBLE bolt pistol worth 8 point? Especially when it's been established that a jump pack upgrade is only worth ~3. Like I said, they are marginal, but melee units need to be really REALLY REALLY good to be even worth considering....and they are not triple REALLY good, maybe average.

Remember that the new GK/chaos/legion terminators are only worth 31-33 points these days and honor guard are 25....and while these guys line up reasonably well with both, no one is lining up to take terminators or honor guard these days.

Maybe in some sort of saturation, all out must punch the enemy in the face with my whole list type of army they might reach some level of competitiveness, but I wouldn't count on it.


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 the shrouded lord wrote:
Did anyone else notice THIS THING?

It's the Deathstorm genestealer broolord character. We've known about it forever. It's a named broodlord with stealth and preferred enemy.

 the shrouded lord wrote:
Did anyone else notice THIS THING?

Yes. That is the Spawn of Cryptus, a Broodlord character. It has been discussed at length several times over several threads.

why am i only hearing about it now? aanyone got a link to where I can learn more?

@the shrouded lord
Yeah, that's the new Broodlord character, Spawn of Cryptus.

In addition to Space Wolves having acute senses and counterattack listed, Dark Eldar have Night Vision listed on each unit entry.

So the Sanguinary Guard have moved up to a priority to me. Probably going to get a couple boxes. I love the idea of a highly mobile "terminator" squad. Love their aesthetics too. Though I am not all that huge on them being fully gold. Might pain them red and have a lot of gold details with gold deathmasks. That way Dante will be the only fully blinged out marine. I dunno. I will have to see once I get a few. I am really excited to get started on a Blood Angels army. This birthday is going to be a red one!

EDIT: Forgot to mention this in my other post. The previews for next week mention "An Unexpected Ally". This is more than likely a reference to Necrons coming to bail out the Blood Angels. That or it is about the Bloodthirster teaming up with the Tyranids. My money is on Necrons teaming up with Blood Angels though.

 the shrouded lord wrote:
why am i only hearing about it now? aanyone got a link to where I can learn more?

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Shield-of-Baal-Deathstorm-English
It giving shrouded and preferred enemy somehow are the only rules rumors I know of right now, and I'm not sure if there is any discussion about It specifically on dakkadakka.


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 casvalremdeikun wrote:

EDIT: Forgot to mention this in my other post. The previews for next week mention "An Unexpected Ally". This is more than likely a reference to Necrons coming to bail out the Blood Angels. That or it is about the Bloodthirster teaming up with the Tyranids. My money is on Necrons teaming up with Blood Angels though.

Could be referring to the Sisters who survived the Tyranid attack on Lysios. Amusingly the only Imperials to have any sort of victory in Leviathan. Highly doubtful though.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 the shrouded lord wrote:
why am i only hearing about it now? aanyone got a link to where I can learn more?

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Shield-of-Baal-Deathstorm-English
It giving shrouded and preferred enemy somehow are the only rules rumors I know of right now, and I'm not sure if there is any discussion about It specifically on dakkadakka.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

EDIT: Forgot to mention this in my other post. The previews for next week mention "An Unexpected Ally". This is more than likely a reference to Necrons coming to bail out the Blood Angels. That or it is about the Bloodthirster teaming up with the Tyranids. My money is on Necrons teaming up with Blood Angels though.

Could be referring to the Sisters who survived the Tyranid attack on Lysios. Amusingly the only Imperials to have any sort of victory in Leviathan. Highly doubtful though.

mmmmmm I donooooo......... I mean we all know how much BA's and Necrons love a good tyranid fight so they can share that epic fist bump afterwords. Brothers in Curses after all.

 Olgerth Istaarn wrote:
Personally, I found the new IH fluff refreshing, even if it was a radical change. SM aren't mindless drones or starlets whose knees quiver at one mention of their Primarch. Yes, they are devoted to him, but perhaps not slavishly.

Going from "boo hoo, everyone is at fault and us the most" to "holy crap, the man who we saw as our father almost got ALL of us killed just because he was too angry which makes him a crap general, but we will not falter in our devotion to the Emperor" is a lot more mature.

Really? Sitting and watching as your Raven Guard supposed-allies get massacred after deliberately placing them in that situation is more "mature" than merely distrusting the Raven Guard/Sallies and refusing to fight with them unless the situation is dire? Deciding the best response to "we conclude Ferrus was a bit of a hot-head" is "we must carve out all our emotions! Spock Marines, hooooo!" is mature?

Name one other Legion-derived Chapter that holds their own Primarch in anything but the highest regard. I mean seriously, imagine how Blood Angels players would react if GW changed the background to say that the BA's think Sanguinius was a total numpty for facing Horus alone(which he was), or Ultramarine players if they were changed to believe Guilliman was a vainglorious git for embarking on his whole "Imperium Secundus" project when he should have been preparing to make a beeline for Terra at the first possible opportunity(which he should).

The whole underpinning of the tragic nature of the IH story was that despite their outwardly reserved nature they were loyal to a fault; they to their Primarch, he to his brothers, and that Fulgrim's betrayal of Ferrus and Ferrus' death twisted them beyond recognition. They couldn't accept that their Primarch, perhaps the greatest strategic mind of the Great Crusade after the Emperor, had made a mistake(if indeed he did, I'm not convinced their interpretation of Istvaan was wrong), and so their own most positive aspect drove them to become monsters.

Out of interest, did you play IH before the retcon? I'm not setting you up for a No True Scotsman, I'm just interested since I've met very, very few long-time IH fans who liked the changes.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Just got to look at the next weeks white dwarf and was able to make out most of the page for sanguinary guard. The points costs listed earlier were accurate (165 for 5 dudes), and they came with the same wargear as before but had standard "sword encarmines" which could be traded for "axe encarmines" at no cost. Chapter banner took a 5 point discount, other points costs i couldnt make out, but the best is yet to come.

Firstly, the option was there to add up to 5 ADDITIONAL sanguinary guard, increasing the squad size to 10. Finally, they came with the fearless and furious charge special rule. Interestingly, the dreadnought on the opposite page (whos info was much less clear) ALSO had the furious charge special rule. I think all blood angels come standard with it now, which would be amazing.

Hmm, that seems to reopen the possibility the Sanguinary Guard box will go up to 10 models at a higher price, on top of it perhaps just being to add the new bases. If Blood Angels do come standard with Furious Charge on everything, I suspect we'll also be seeing a resurgence in World Eaters using the 'dex.

They probably took the Sanguinary Guard and Death Company off the store so they could repackage them with the new bases. BOLS (yeah, I know...) has something up in their rumors about the boxes staying the same price. They will probably show back up at the same time the Codex does.

I'm also looking forward to the *discounted* bundles. Similar to how GK and SW got a sort of new battleforce box as well as other web bundles.

And no. I'm not talking about the save your clicks, not money bundles.

Also, all BA characters seem to still be in stock, doesn't bode well for any resculpt even though mephiston and Dante are screaming for new ones.

So if honor guard are worth 25, and you would say jet packs are 3, then that still leaves a 5 point difference between them and SG. Its not a double bolt pistol, its an ap4 12in range storm bolter, which is another 2 points (30). The master crafted power weapon vs pistol and power weapon breaks even.

So then its fearless+furious charge vs ATSKNF and chapter tactics. I think SG win out.

Have we seen any straight character re-sculpts this edition?
Ones that didn't change the character in some way (Grimnar) and just gave us an updated version of the model?

 plastictrees wrote:
Have we seen any straight character re-sculpts this edition?

I'm not sure how to take that. We are talking about an army of the most handsome marines who wear shirtless nipple muscle armor.

Right, the most masculine chapter in existence, what's your point?

The only SC that has gotten a new model since 7th edition has been released, I believe, is Grimnar. I was just thinking about because there were rumors on nafta and BOLS saying a character resculpt with Dante being the possibility.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Sisters...

 Sinful Hero wrote:
...who survived

No such thing.

I'm surprised no one has got their hands on Deathstorm yet...

Come on, I want info of the formations!

D

 warboss wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:
Have we seen any straight character re-sculpts this edition?

I'm not sure how to take that. We are talking about an army of the most handsome marines who wear shirtless nipple muscle armor.

By the way, there is an image in WD #44 that comes from the codex that shows artwork of the Sanguinary Priest wearing a helmet. It also has a character name attached to it, but I don't have my copy on hand so I can't recall what his name was. So not only is Mr. Shirtless Nipple Muscle Armor shirtless and wearing nipple muscle armor, he has an actual name.

 th3maninblak wrote:
So if honor guard are worth 25, and you would say jet packs are 3, then that still leaves a 5 point difference between them and SG. Its not a double bolt pistol, its an ap4 12in range storm bolter, which is another 2 points (30). The master crafted power weapon vs pistol and power weapon breaks even.

So then its fearless+furious charge vs ATSKNF and chapter tactics. I think SG win out.

I agree with this, @Carnage, though I hear what you're saying. I also have an Honor Squad that I use a lot, and I definitely like the FNP benefits from the Initiate which, along with a combat shield, has kept me in some fights. However, they get more expensive when you give them extra weapons (which I do). To me they are both fluffy...which I also like, but I don't know how competitive they really are, to be honest--either of them. If you trick them out, they end up only being 5 models, too, and that's just not that hard to weather unless you can get a double-charge in and get some more models into contact. At least this Sanguinary Guard look like they can be bulked up to more than 5 models now.

I also feel like the Sanguinary Guard are some of the most visually appealing models in the BA range, and that's part of the hobby (if not the game) too, right? Seeing your army there in front of you, looking cool. (Then usually dying). In terms of PPM though, BA have definitely been at a disadvantage, so I am really hoping to see some more points decreases, especially for Jump Pack Assault marines. And maybe getting access to some of the Chapter-specific special weapons for a price that makes it worth doing.

I would expect that assault marines are gonna drop to 17 pointsper model from 18, to match the SM book. That, and the non-mandatory upgrade for the vet sgt. I would prefer 16 points a dude, but that wont happen.

 th3maninblak wrote:
I would expect that assault marines are gonna drop to 17 pointsper model from 18, to match the SM book. That, and the non-mandatory upgrade for the vet sgt. I would prefer 16 points a dude, but that wont happen.

There is really no reason for them to be different from the C:SM Assault Squads. Sure, they have access to some of the BA toys like Inferno Pistols (I shall be giving my Sergeant TWO Inferno Pistols to make him a tank busting cowboy that still gets an additional attack for wielding two CCW), but otherwise they are basically the same thing.