Blood Angels Rumours - Pre-order up - Website photos from page 78

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**casvalremdeikun**

Fireraven wrote:
Honestly I would trade the assaults for the changes made to Dante and Mephiston. I mean do we really want to talk about how bad it can get? Dark Eldar lost their leader just flat out gone. How many years have BA players begged for Mephiston to get IC? Guess what it just happen.

Pretty much this. It could have been a lot worse. Mephiston or Asorath could have been Vected out of the Codex. Instead, some of the characters were buffed or made more usable. I am happy Dante is LoW, now I can field other stuff in the HQ slot and still have a place fore him. I don't have that luxury with my Crimson Fists army, if I want to run Pedro, he HAS to take up one of my HQ slots, which means one less spot for a Libby or whatever. Since I am just starting BA, I don't have a giant problem with the Troop Tax. But I do feel for everyone that has had their army invalidated. It felt like when Wizards of the Coast prematurely killed 4th edition and invalidated all the books I had for that.

I am really glad that they are releasing a whole new box of tacticals for BA though. If it was just another army of the same C:SM tacticals, I wouldn't even consider starting the army.

**Redemption**

BTW, the BL Advent Calender boasts two Fleshtearer related e-books (one a story, one a Echoes of War mission to go with it):

http://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-40000/a-sons-burden-ebook.html
http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/echo-of-war-flesh-tearers.html

**the shrouded lord**

Red__Thirst wrote:
Blood Angels should have NEVER had Assault Marines as troops. The only asinine thing that I can see, other than deep striking land raiders... UGH... was Assault Marines as troops choices.

I feel for people who did up the whole jump pack army, but Tactical Squads have been troops choices for WAY longer than assault marines, and still were in the previous crap.. I mean.. Codex.

That said, you can STILL run your all jump pack army as an Unbound list with ZERO issue. So other than losing Objective Secured, you still get all the benefits of your list from the previous list with the added benefit of your average Assault Marine being cheaper.

Forgive me, but I can't see much issue in that, and can't understand all the rage. Your list isn't invalidated, it just has to be played under the unbound format. If you don't like it, then paint up ten Tactical Marines, or Scouts, and run them as your minimal troop choices and keep on trucking.

Just my thoughts.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

this.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

casvalremdeikun wrote:
Really, you can run a mostly JP army even with Battleforged. Sure, you will have to pay the troops tax (I am hoping for Scouts with an LSS being a thing), but you can have the following:

4x 5-10 Sanguinary Guard/30? Death Company/5-10 Vanguard Veterans
1x Raphen's Death Company
3x Assault Squads

That is a pretty good amount of JP Infantry. Sure, you are going to have to reformulate your army some, but that was kind of expected. And we still could be seeing a Formation or two coming.

and this.

**endlesswaltz123**

I still want to know what weapon options, if any new are available to death company.

Drop pod or jump infantry with relentless grav guns would be fun against certain lists, and quite durable with FNP and other boosts.

**Mr Morden**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Red__Thirst wrote:
Assault Marines should have never been in the Troops slot.

Here's the thing right: I don't disagree with that. At all. The fluff purist in me always hated the idea that BA's could field armies of Assault Marines. They're a Codex Chapter - no more special than Crimson Fists or Raven Guard - and the idea that they had more regular Assault Marines around was just silly (is the 8th Company the BA's main front-line unit or something?). The Blood Angels exist as a separate Codex now because of legacy issues - they're too ingrained now, so they can't just dump them - but by the same token, the "all Assault all the time" thing is also a legacy issue. It's quite improper of GW to simply flip a switch and say "Nope. You play like this now!", and I can't think of a single army off hand that has gone through such an intentional change of play-style (Nidzilla in 4th is perhaps the only example, and it doesn't really fit, because it was a list borne out of bad rules design and a desire to sell as many shiny new Carnifex kits as possible, rather than simply an option that was created and then went away after many, many years of play).

And in respect to the old Angels of Death Codex, go and look at it. It's the same list as Codex Ultramarines + Death Company - Ultra Spec Chars + BA Spec Chars. I think it's a bad example to go "back in my day!", 'cause then we get into "Back in my day me 'Nids 'ad lots of Brood Brothers an' Squigs". Some old things need to stay old things, and some changes, once made, shouldn't be changed back.

I do agree completely with Red Thirsts assertion that getting rid of some of the abominable fluff that GW inflicted on Blood Angel players was a good thing.......

Having Special Chapter Codex that are not actually that different from the Codex made this an issue and GW has made up sillier and sillier units to desperately try and differentiate them in order to justify their Special status and release yet more Marines in the self fulfilling prophecy that we make mostly Marines so we sell mostly Marines so we should make mostly Marines
Army Styles not changing - have you seen the new Dark Eldar Codex and the massive changes it has made to the play style and army lists?

This is the way that GW work now (and have done for years) - everyone plays with specific models - "well we have sold enough of them so lets make it so they are not as good and there is a new Shiny" - see many Tau armies without Riptides? See many Eldar armies without Wave Serpents, see Many Grey Knights with Dredd Knights? Guess which models get nerfed next time? Black Templar's are now part of the Marine Codex - major change there especially for all those Black Templar players?

Lots of people said "bad" things would happen based on the previous Codex changes and people still seemed to thinking it was all gong to be great - but its not and its never going to be as good as we want it to be. .....I'd like a hard copy Adepta Sororitas Codex and some new models..............

I am shocked that people did not think that GW was going to screw over many of those with established collections - they really don't care about you - you have bought your models, if you don't want to buy new Terminators, Scouts, Tac Marines and just want to keep you present models - they are indeed saying screw you! Its not a good thing for us but its not a surprise - same as all those with 3 or more Ravagers..............

**Frankenberry**

So I just read something that the Termies are going to be 60 bucks and the new Librarian is going to be 30 (another single model kit). Anyone have any information as to why the price bump for the Terminators?

**Kosake**

Thud wrote:
We all understand the concept of minimum troop requirements, so stop acting like we don't. It's doing nothing but making you look like a colossal idiot.

But I can do that with vanilla marines too. And there's a reason why I picked BA as my army and haven't bought a single Tactical Squad so far. I also understand that Scouts are usable. I'm not dense, but it's clearly too hard for you to see that that's not the point. And I'm sure there will be viable ways to run Blood Angels with this new codex, but that's also the case for Necrons and Tyranids, neither of which I'm interested in playing.

And as for needing characters for unlocking DW and RW? Gee, thanks for letting me know, I was totally unaware of that. And that's, like, totally the same because a character on a bike in an army of bikes doesn't, like, fit in at all.

I have about 8,000 points of Blood Angels. I used to have about 2,000 points of Troops. Now I have zero points of Troops. Of my 8,000 points I literally cannot make a legal battle forged army.

Not a marines player myself I can still sympathesize with Thud here. The assault troops were kind-of iconic for Blood Angels. Without them they are just normal marines with some special characters and gear. Another two steps down that road and you can just cram them into the generic space marine codex with some chapter tactic and death company as unique units and call it done.

**angelofvengeance**

Frankenberry wrote:
So I just read something that the Termies are going to be 60 bucks and the new Librarian is going to be 30 (another single model kit). Anyone have any information as to why the price bump for the Terminators?

a) New hotness terminators
b) GW knows how to charge
c) GW knows BA space marines will sell like hot cakes.

**H.B.M.C.**

Mr Morden wrote:
Army Styles not changing - have you seen the new Dark Eldar Codex and the massive changes it has made to the play style and army lists?

Not even slightly the same. The Dark Eldar Codex lost special characters that never had models anyway and the FOC changes those special characters brought about went with them. They didn't take Warriors or Wyches and put them in a completely different slot, invalidating the very structure of the army.

**Mr Morden**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Army Styles not changing - have you seen the new Dark Eldar Codex and the massive changes it has made to the play style and army lists?

Not even slightly the same. The Dark Eldar Codex lost special characters that never had models anyway and the FOC changes those special characters brought about went with them. They didn't take Warriors or Wyches and put them in a completely different slot, invalidating the very structure of the army.

So you can play a Dark Eldar army in the same way as before - nope totally untrue.

Wracks are no longer able to be taken as troops - how many armies did this before - lots. You can't take Ork Nobs as troops anymore.

Without them they are just normal marines with some special characters and gear. Another two steps down that road and you can just cram them into the generic space marine codex with some chapter tactic and death company as unique units and call it done.

Well it happened to Black Templars which were arguably more divergent than Blood Angels before GW / Matt Ward made his abomination of a Codex. Is a bit of FOC manipulation really a reason for your a specific Codex? Look at the Imperial Guard - absolutely huge differences from Regiment to Regiment - no special Codex's there.

Now they do have lots of "themed units" for good or ill and so its not likely to happen................

**Frankenberry**

angelofvengeance wrote:
Frankenberry wrote:
So I just read something that the Termies are going to be 60 bucks and the new Librarian is going to be 30 (another single model kit). Anyone have any information as to why the price bump for the Terminators?

a) New hotness terminators
b) GW knows how to charge
c) GW knows BA space marines will sell like hot cakes.

Aside from the pedantic response, I meant gear related.

**mixer86**

Detachment is nice:
Mandatory 1 HQ, 1 Elite, 2 Troops
Optional: as usual, but 3 additioanl Elite (Total 4)
Special rule: +1I when charging, all the army, any turn.

Whilst not what i had planned, i guess it does allow this if taken twice:

HQ
Libby Furioso
Libby Furioso

Troops
Scouts
Scouts
Scouts
Scouts

Elites
DC Dread
DC Dread
DC Dread
DC Dread
DC Dread
DC Dread
DC Dread
DC Dread

Assuming Scouts will be similar to vanmilla dex cost. this is a 1750 list.

Just a thought.

**DarkStarSabre**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
Army Styles not changing - have you seen the new Dark Eldar Codex and the massive changes it has made to the play style and army lists?

Not even slightly the same. The Dark Eldar Codex lost special characters that never had models anyway and the FOC changes those special characters brought about went with them. They didn't take Warriors or Wyches and put them in a completely different slot, invalidating the very structure of the army.

It's amazing how many people aren't getting this HBMC. I've had Ork Nobz and Dark Eldar thrown at me as examples when neither of those had examples of straight up Force Org chart changes - all that disappeared was the 'swapping' mechanic that allowed for Unit X or Unit Y to be taken as Troops or whatever.

Still, easy enough to meet minimum troops requirement.

Just take unusued, as of yet un-undercoated Tactical squad from other Marine army. Clean up. Take off any Paladin iconography. Job done. Oh hey, turns out these are old metal 2nd ed. Death Company/BA models. Bonus!

Just means I'll probably end up having to double some squads up to end up with 8 strong Assault squads.

So my Flesh Tearers now stand at...

LOW - Seth
HQ - Librarian
HQ - Sanguinary Priest

Elites - Sternguard in Rhino
Elites - Big blob of Death Company with jet packs.
Elites - Chaplains

Troops - Tactical Squad - Heavy Bolter, Plasma, Sgt. with Power Weapon
Troops - Tactical Squad - Heavy Bolter, Plasma, Sgt. with Power Fist
Troops - Scotts with Snifer Riples.

Fast Attack - 8 Vanguard
Fast Attack - 8 Assault Marines
Fast Attack - 8 Assault Marines

Heavy Support - Devastator Squad

Not much of a change. And oh hey, 8 is a suspicious number...almost Khornate...

**natpri771**

Yup, this is kind of a problem. I know several Blood Angels players (myself included) that would be affected by this. My army contains for troops choices: an assault squad and a unit of death company. If is happens, I will have to drop the much better Landspeeder tornadoes I my army and replace them with an extra assault squad, which will severely weaken the competitiveness of my list. I'm no where near the hardest hit by this though. I have a friend that has THREE Sanguinary Priests in his army that will become useless,because his HQ slots are taken up by Dante and a terminator librarian. I can understand Corbulo becoming a HQ choice, but why Sanguinary Priests? It was like when they moved Techmarines to a HQ choice in the space marine codex (they're probably going to become elites in the new BA codex). I think Techmarines should be run like Sanguinary Priests are currently run, with the ability to take three in an elite slot and then kit them out and attach them to units. The thing is, I wouldn't have a problem with this if GW didn't have their heads completely up their a*ses about this. They have to keep new releases secret until like a week before because they rely on impulse buys. If they are going to make large changes like these that can majorly affect how the army is played, at least explain the major changes you are making so that you can give people time to adapt to them and not cause people's armies to turn from formidable lists, to utter sh*t. All I can hope is that this either some prank or that GW's site has had some technical issues.
(BTW, if Death Company are not staying as troops, then DC Dreadnoughts are not going to stay as troops either. It is also rumoured that Furioso Librarians might become HQ choices).

**Mr Morden**

I have a friend that has THREE Sanguinary Priests in his army that will become useless,because his HQ slots are taken up by Dante and a terminator librarian. I can understand Corbulo becoming a HQ choice, but why Sanguinary Priests? It was like when they moved Techmarines to a HQ choice in the space marine codex (they're probably going to become elites in the new BA codex). I think Techmarines should be run like Sanguinary Priests are currently run, with the ability to take three in an elite slot and then kit them out and attach them to units.

Standard GW Codex writing now - - see Ork PainBoyz............... Not sure why anyone thought was going to be different - not saying its good - but its the way GW does it now.

Isn't Dante a LOW now so he does not take up a HQ slot?

**SolentSanguine**

So, Heavy Flamers are assault weapons. A BA Tac squad can put out 3 templates (maybe 4 if the sergeant can take 2 hand flamers), fire 7 bolt pistols and then charge at +1S, and if with a priest +1I and +1WS as well?

**casvalremdeikun**

SolentSanguine wrote:
So, Heavy Flamers are assault weapons. A BA Tac squad can put out 3 templates (maybe 4 if the sergeant can take 2 hand flamers), fire 7 bolt pistols and then charge at +1S, and if with a priest +1I and +1WS as well?

Assuming there is anything left for them to charge, yes, they could do this and it would be glorious.

**Crimson**

H.B.M.C. wrote:

You're still missing it. There are people. Who have made armies. Full armies. Of Jump Packers. They like. These armies. They put hours. Into. These armies. GW invalidated. Their armies. With. A single. Rule change.

They can either play unbound or get that single box of tacticals they claim they do not have. No big deal.

You lost Griffons. That's nothing. My Inquisitorial and Lost & The Damned armies don't exist any more. Losing Griffons isn't in any way the same as losing the entire structure of an army played by a whole host of people for the better part of a decade.

Both of the armies you mentioned still exists and are perfectly playable with current rules:
Lost and the Damned
Inquisition (Add allies from other imperial codices as needed.)

**Mr Morden**

You're still missing it. There are people. Who have made armies. Full armies. Of Jump Packers. They like. These armies. They put hours. Into. These armies. GW invalidated. Their armies. With. A single. Rule change.

As I said before I am shocked that people did not think that GW was going to screw over many of those with established collections - they really don't care about you/us - you have bought your models, if you don't want to buy new Terminators, Scouts, Tac Marines and just want to keep you present models - they are indeed saying screw you!

Its not a good thing for us but its surely not a surprise - same as all those with 3 or more Ravagers..............

Also as noted its not like they squatted the whole army as you are saying - there is a perfectly usable format in 7th Ed or just requires a single box of tactical or Scouts. Are you really saying everyone thought the new Codex meant no change of any kind to their army and we not going to have to buy something - that's not GW's business model and would make little sense if it was?

**natpri771**

Red__Thirst wrote:
I'm going to get blasted for this by those in this threadnought, but I really don't give a good-gott-dang, so listen up:

Blood Angels, like EVERY LOYALIST SPACE MARINE ARMY EXCEPT FOR SPACE WOLVES AND BLACK TEMPLARS*, are a Codex Astartes adherent chapter.

*I know there are a handful of others, but they're quite niche and almost never seen

Meaning: ASSAULT MARINES SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN TROOPS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

When the abomination that was the last Blood Angels codex came out, I purchased it, read it, and accepted it for what it was. Pure Bull Gak. All the new, in my humble opinion, STUPID new characters (The Sanguinor??.. Really Matt Ward? REALLY?..), assault marines as troops?? Seriously? (Though that much didn't bother me *quite* as much, it still stuck in my craw pretty hard.) Blood-this, Blood-that, Blood-socks, Blood-pods, Blood-packs, the naming conventions were juvenile at best and stupid at worst. Deep striking Land Raiders. That, alone, nearly made me throw the codex in the trash when I saw it. The chapters most valuable and powerful armored vehicles and you're going to hot drop them off of a transport Thunderhawk?? REALLY Matt Ward? Really?... And the Codex cover art was the worst of any BA Codex to date as well to boot. Ugh...

Blood Angels were my first army, they're my FAVORITE chapter and always have been. You want to know how many games I've played with the (now) old version of the Blood Angels codex? Exactly one. ONE GAME with my favorite army since the last codex came out because I actively didn't enjoy playing the army I love due of shoddy writing and bull-gak that they did to the fluff in the previous version of the BA codex.

This codex, however, I welcome it with open arms. I rejoice in it, and thank the Emperor for finally returning the noble Sons of Sanguinius to their previous, rightful state.

FINALLY, I can look at my army and not feel ashamed at the STUPIDLY juvenile writing. FINALLY, I can run tactical marines again (as I did in my one game under the old codex, and all previous games in the 3rd edition codex) because that's what a Blood Angels army should have in it as their primary troops choices and not have people look at me sideways for not running assault marines as my troops. Yes, I ran Assault Marines as well, but as FAST ATTACK, and no more than 2 of them as my 5th Battle Company force doesn't have more than 2 squads.

I feel for people who painted up an army that has been somewhat/partially or even completely invalidated, but come on, you can't tell me you didn't see this coming. GW has been trending this way with codex writing for YEARS now, ever since 6th edition hit, and pardon me for seeming callous but the writing has been on the wall for a long, long while now. Assault Marines were NEVER going to remain troops.

People screaming angst or butthurt because "The Identity of the Blood Angels has been ruined!!1!1!"... PLEASE.

The Identity of the Blood Angels was ruined when that book full of PURE Gak that Matt Ward gave us was published and released. We're getting our identity back after seven LONG years of it languishing in the land of stupid and poor writing that made me ashamed to count myself as a Blood Angel.

I'm genuinely EXCITED to finish off my Imperial Guard and start rebuilding my Blood Angels. Finally, I can return to playing a Marine Army I like. Finally, I can look with Pride at my balanced force of Tactical Marines, Devastator Marines, and Assault Marines and smile.

Finally, I can once again say:

FOR THE EMPEROR, AND SANGUINIUS!!

Take it easy for now, everyone.

-Red__Thirst-
One Happy Blood Angels player.

P.S. Dante FINALLY has Eternal Warrior!!!!!! They made him the proper Lord of the Host he should have been all along. That fact alone makes me happier than I've been in a long, long while. Good on ya Gee-Dub. Good on ya.

1. White Scars take bikes as troops, why aren't you complaining about that?
2. Grey Knights take terminators as troops, why aren't you complaining about that? (They can also take Psyker terminators with 2 wounds as troops)
3. Dark Angels can take terminators AND bikes as troops, why aren't you complaining about that?

The reason Blood Angels have assault squads as troops is that it is what makes Blood Angels a unique army where you can take unique lists. Basically, Blood Angels take assault squads as troops because it is what prevents them from just being vanilla marines with mental health problems and a nippled armour fetish. Dark Angels have Ravenwing and Deathwing as troops because it is what prevents them from being emo vanilla marines who want to hunt down their traitorous brethren. Grey Knights have terminators and other units as troops because it is what prevents them from being vanilla marines with magic powers. From one Blood Angel player to another, don't you see how you are undermining the the very foundations of the Blood Angels chapter. They are shock assault troops, the jump pack and the Chainsword are just as as much a part of them as their beating heart; every Blood Angel owns and maintains a jump pack and will use it when necessary. They take to the skies like their Primarch before the. They are the sons of Sanguinius. They are the Blood Angels. To take away their wings is absurd

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mr Morden wrote:
I have a friend that has THREE Sanguinary Priests in his army that will become useless,because his HQ slots are taken up by Dante and a terminator librarian. I can understand Corbulo becoming a HQ choice, but why Sanguinary Priests? It was like when they moved Techmarines to a HQ choice in the space marine codex (they're probably going to become elites in the new BA codex). I think Techmarines should be run like Sanguinary Priests are currently run, with the ability to take three in an elite slot and then kit them out and attach them to units.

Standard GW Codex writing now - - see Ork PainBoyz............... Not sure why anyone thought was going to be different - not saying its good - but its the way GW does it now.

Isn't Dante a LOW now so he does not take up a HQ slot?

I think it was Mephiston that was supposed to be a LOW (SPOILER ALERT: He isn't)

**Mr Morden**

Dante is mentioned as a LOW quite a few time sin the Thread - but not sure if its been confirmed?

**BrotherGecko**

Somewhere in the darkness Ward is smiling.

This is why I fear for the Necron update and is why I built a themeless theme so that the next update won't invalidate what I've acquired over the years (unless stuff gets Pariahed).

**Wayniac**

Here's the thing:

Blood Angels have always been a Codex chapter with different markings (helmet color denoting the squad type rather than the shoulder pad icon). They had the Thirst but it didn't change their doctrine. Having Assault Marines as troops was fairly silly IMHO and really should never have happened, but I will at least say it was a nice attempt at trying to add variety for the Big Four chapters so they weren't the same thing with different names and/or colors.

White Scars should never have had Bikes as troops, because they are also a Codex chapter. In fact IIRC the entire reason they can was because Paul Sawyer got some custom rules made for them (as they were his army) in 3rd edition when the Chaos Codex 3.0 was released, and it kind of evolved from that. White Scars should always be mobilized, not have bikers as Troops. But again, I get the reasoning and it makes sense when you think of their background as they are heavily influenced by Mongolia and Mongolia was reknown for it's horse archers (or at least that's what Age of Empires 2 taught me). And what's a futuristic version of a horse archer? A guy with a gun riding a bike.

Dark Angels are *NOT* a Codex chapter, which is why they get Terminators as troops (Deathwing) and Bikes as troops (Ravenwing).

Personally I think they should have formations (or detachments, whatever they are called now) for fielding a reserve company instead of a Battle Company. So you should be able to do the 8th Company if you want and have everything on bikes or with jump packs, but then you maybe can't take any vehicles or drop pods or anything. Some kind of counter-balance.

As with everything else GW does, I like how the Blood Angels look (and have for 20 years) but the price is going to mean that I won't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

**WellSpokenMan**

As a predominantly DA player, I am confused about dataslates and formations. We've never had one after all. If you just take the DC dread from the Dearhstorm box by itself, does it count as a troop? I've been on the fence about picking up BA as an allied faction, but I don't want/need Tacticals. I thought that if I wanted to use the units from the box set formation they were all or nothing unless they we're used in their codex slot as part of a larger force. An IC, DC Dread, and DC squad would work nicely, but I didn't think it was legal.

**niv-mizzet**

I took up Blood Angels BECAUSE I don't want to run crappy tacticals or scouts like almost every other chapter. Even if it's not a great list, I loved having full jump pack lists. I specifically came to BA because of the assault marines.

Also, the chapter has 200 assault marines and only 100 scouts at full strength, why are the scouts troops?

Thankfully, I've at least accidentally picked up some tacticals here and there, so I can actually field something legal with my 18k of models, but I can totally understand people not having any tacticals or scouts in their collections. And yay for furious charge tacticals? Psh. Worthless.

They may not have started with ASM troops, but they had them for the better part of a decade. That's the equivalent of getting halfway through a trip east across the world, and then turning around halfway and deciding to go the other way instead. It's dumb, and it's completely logical that it would make people upset. They have every right to be when the carpet is pulled out from underneath them by a greedy, short-sighted, moronically-ran company.

Like I said, this one change is enough to make me purposely avoid giving GW any money for anything. If I want a model, I'll get it second hand. If I want rules, then I'll "obtain them."
If they want the money out of my wallet, they have to actually try to make me a satisfied customer, and pulling a bait and switch is NOT the way to do that.

Probably gonna house rule ASM into troops for BA still anyhow, it's just dumb how much house ruling we have to do because the designers are incredibly unqualified for their jobs.

**valkyriePROfail**

natpri771 wrote:
Red__Thirst wrote:
I'm going to get blasted for this by those in this threadnought, but I really don't give a good-gott-dang, so listen up:

Blood Angels, like EVERY LOYALIST SPACE MARINE ARMY EXCEPT FOR SPACE WOLVES AND BLACK TEMPLARS*, are a Codex Astartes adherent chapter.

*I know there are a handful of others, but they're quite niche and almost never seen

Meaning: ASSAULT MARINES SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN TROOPS IN THE FIRST PLACE.

When the abomination that was the last Blood Angels codex came out, I purchased it, read it, and accepted it for what it was. Pure Bull Gak. All the new, in my humble opinion, STUPID new characters (The Sanguinor??.. Really Matt Ward? REALLY?..), assault marines as troops?? Seriously? (Though that much didn't bother me *quite* as much, it still stuck in my craw pretty hard.) Blood-this, Blood-that, Blood-socks, Blood-pods, Blood-packs, the naming conventions were juvenile at best and stupid at worst. Deep striking Land Raiders. That, alone, nearly made me throw the codex in the trash when I saw it. The chapters most valuable and powerful armored vehicles and you're going to hot drop them off of a transport Thunderhawk?? REALLY Matt Ward? Really?... And the Codex cover art was the worst of any BA Codex to date as well to boot. Ugh...

Blood Angels were my first army, they're my FAVORITE chapter and always have been. You want to know how many games I've played with the (now) old version of the Blood Angels codex? Exactly one. ONE GAME with my favorite army since the last codex came out because I actively didn't enjoy playing the army I love due of shoddy writing and bull-gak that they did to the fluff in the previous version of the BA codex.

This codex, however, I welcome it with open arms. I rejoice in it, and thank the Emperor for finally returning the noble Sons of Sanguinius to their previous, rightful state.

FINALLY, I can look at my army and not feel ashamed at the STUPIDLY juvenile writing. FINALLY, I can run tactical marines again (as I did in my one game under the old codex, and all previous games in the 3rd edition codex) because that's what a Blood Angels army should have in it as their primary troops choices and not have people look at me sideways for not running assault marines as my troops. Yes, I ran Assault Marines as well, but as FAST ATTACK, and no more than 2 of them as my 5th Battle Company force doesn't have more than 2 squads.

I feel for people who painted up an army that has been somewhat/partially or even completely invalidated, but come on, you can't tell me you didn't see this coming. GW has been trending this way with codex writing for YEARS now, ever since 6th edition hit, and pardon me for seeming callous but the writing has been on the wall for a long, long while now. Assault Marines were NEVER going to remain troops.

People screaming angst or butthurt because "The Identity of the Blood Angels has been ruined!!1!1!"... PLEASE.

The Identity of the Blood Angels was ruined when that book full of PURE Gak that Matt Ward gave us was published and released. We're getting our identity back after seven LONG years of it languishing in the land of stupid and poor writing that made me ashamed to count myself as a Blood Angel.

I'm genuinely EXCITED to finish off my Imperial Guard and start rebuilding my Blood Angels. Finally, I can return to playing a Marine Army I like. Finally, I can look with Pride at my balanced force of Tactical Marines, Devastator Marines, and Assault Marines and smile.

Finally, I can once again say:

FOR THE EMPEROR, AND SANGUINIUS!!

Take it easy for now, everyone.

-Red__Thirst-
One Happy Blood Angels player.

P.S. Dante FINALLY has Eternal Warrior!!!!!! They made him the proper Lord of the Host he should have been all along. That fact alone makes me happier than I've been in a long, long while. Good on ya Gee-Dub. Good on ya.

1. White Scars take bikes as troops, why aren't you complaining about that?
2. Grey Knights take terminators as troops, why aren't you complaining about that? (They can also take Psyker terminators with 2 wounds as troops)
3. Dark Angels can take terminators AND bikes as troops, why aren't you complaining about that?

The reason Blood Angels have assault squads as troops is that it is what makes Blood Angels a unique army where you can take unique lists. Basically, Blood Angels take assault squads as troops because it is what prevents them from just being vanilla marines with mental health problems and a nippled armour fetish. Dark Angels have Ravenwing and Deathwing as troops because it is what prevents them from being emo vanilla marines who want to hunt down their traitorous brethren. Grey Knights have terminators and other units as troops because it is what prevents them from being vanilla marines with magic powers. From one Blood Angel player to another, don't you see how you are undermining the the very foundations of the Blood Angels chapter. They are shock assault troops, the jump pack and the Chainsword are just as as much a part of them as their beating heart; every Blood Angel owns and maintains a jump pack and will use it when necessary. They take to the skies like their Primarch before the. They are the sons of Sanguinius. They are the Blood Angels. To take away their wings is absurd

I couldn´t say it better. Some people just want to take positively something that SIMPLY makes our Codex far worse than it already was, and not only that, BA lose what it made them unique, and uniqueness is why people choose one chapter over another.

Whats next?
"BA SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAD FAST VEHICLES"?
"BA SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAD AV13 BAAL PREDS AND FURIOSOS"?

**casvalremdeikun**

BrotherGecko wrote:
Somewhere in the darkness Ward is smiling.

This is why I fear for the Necron update and is why I built a themeless theme so that the next update won't invalidate what I've acquired over the years (unless stuff gets Pariahed).

Why would he be smiling, since he is no longer employed by GW and likely didn't have a hand in this Codex. And really, the swing back around to Tacticals over Assaults is only going to benefit the current regime.

In other words, someone is making money, and it ain't him.

**WisdomLS**

Word has it that Sanguinary priest can no longer take terminator armour :-( there goes my cool and expensively put together conversion. Thanks GW you really know how to spoil your loyal customers and make them happy.

**TheDraconicLord**

valkyriePROfail wrote:
natpri771 wrote:
Red__Thirst wrote:
*snip*

I couldn´t say it better. Some people just want to take positively something that SIMPLY makes our Codex far worse than it already was, and not only that, BA lose what it made them unique, and uniqueness is why people choose one chapter over another.

Whats next?
"BA SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAD FAST VEHICLES"?
"BA SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAD AV13 BAAL PREDS AND FURIOSOS"?

But that's the thing isn't it? BA HAVE Fast Vehicles, BAAL Preds and Furiosos while they always remained with their troops Codex compliant.

They are NOT vanilla marines in any way, shape or form, they have have LOADS of differences.

I understand people are mad with the removal of Assault Marines as troops, but c'mon, calling them Vanilla marines because of that is ridiculous: Death Company, Furiosos, Librarian Dreds, Baal's, Fast Vehicles, Sanguinary Guard, unique HQs, rules, you are anything but vanilla marines.

**Lowb**

valkyriePROfail wrote:

I couldn´t say it better. Some people just want to take positively something that SIMPLY makes our Codex far worse than it already was, and not only that, BA lose what it made them unique, and uniqueness is why people choose one chapter over another.

Whats next?
"BA SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAD FAST VEHICLES"?
"BA SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAD AV13 BAAL PREDS AND FURIOSOS"?

What were BAs then when they didn't have Assault as Troops, before The Matt Wardizing?

Were they unique or not? Were they vanillas? Were they in the same codex as the rest of the Codex following marines?

I wasn't playing by then as I only just got my BA army on the 7th ed but I still think we're dooming and glooming a bit too much. Yes loosing Assault Marines as Troops is a kick in the ass, and for those that for whatever reason don't have any tacticals, it sucks. BUT saying that since that has happened then they've lost their uniqueness is too much imho...