Heavy Gear Blitz - War for Terra Nova - Kickstarter, Finished and Funded @ $150,406

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**JohnHwangDD**

Lower part count is nice, but HG minis look cheap and toylike. At least the RRT models look nice.

**Nomeny**

So don't buy any?

**JohnHwangDD**

Nomeny wrote:
So don't buy any?

At this rate, don't worry, I won't.

I'm just super glad that I didn't pledge more than the $1 CAD.

**Nomeny**

Cool. Personally I'm pretty excited for the plastic models. Metal is nice, but they're tiny and plastic is easier to work with for conversions and such. Plus it'll be nice to have something more accessible for those of us fans who are used to plastic as the gold-standard set by GW.

**warboss**

On a somewhat related side note, I'm also selling a metal painted 3,000+ pt (in blitz points) Southern Heavy Gear army to sell as a complete lot. It's not in my swap shop thread yet but if anyone is more interested in the old sculpts, send me a pm and I'll send you the link to my blog here and the gallery with the pics. I'll still have two other smaller armies to (not) play so no worries about me; I'll still have things to gripe about when the new rules come out!

I've also got a UEDF part of a Robotech Starter (including the rulebook) plus four more destroids (all NOS) for sale soon if anyone is interested in that as well.

**-iPaint-**

As a gamer interested in Heavy Gear models strictly for 15mm sci-fi gaming, is it better to get the metals at the discount now or wait for the plastics to come out and hope the price and posing work out?

How well do the metals hold up to assembly without needing to pin them?

What's everyone's best guess for when the plastics will hit retail, Q1 2016? Q2?

~iPaint

**Henshini**

Though we have not seen any of the plastics in hand, the current belief is that the metals will still be superior in detail even once the plastics come out.

**Nomeny**

Probably best to wait until we have plastic in hand, before making a judgement. Metal will probably be what you want for display minis though. It'll be nice to have the option available for both though, even if I'm heavily biased in favour of plastic for gaming.

As Robert pointed out, that detail tends to disappear on the table-top. Me, I have a thing for a cel-shaded paintjob, so excessive detail doesn't really gel with that sort of flat colour.

**warboss**

I agree that you'd need to wait. The renders seem a bit stiffer but that could just be a byproduct of it being a render. Supposedly there might be more movement at some joints (the arms) although the metals had more variety in official poses (running vs kneeling vs standing). I don't recall seeing more than one pose option for the plastics but the upside is that even if they only have one static GI JOE pose that you can cut and reglue plastic into different poses much easier. In any case, the current thinking is that you'll have to wait until the Kickstarter delivery date +5 weeks IIRC unless DP9 has delayed it further without my knowledge.

**warboss**

Just checked in on the kickstarter page... no updates in almost a full month. The last quick update that was basically a pic of the patch said there would be a juicy follow up within two weeks and it has been almost four.

Dave, any news? Did all the molds get made in the intervening month? How is the rules update progressing? I'd hate to have this campaign campaign start turning into another infamous one that posts short updates with promises of more info followed up by weeks/months of silence.

**-iPaint-**

Thanks for the replies, all. I've ordered some stuff off of the Warstore with their 50% off deal. Should get me enough to start messing around with what I have in mind.

~iPaint

**JohnHwangDD**

Wow, the Warstore is very thin on HG stock, at least looking at the Southern stuff. It looks like Neal is clearing any remaining HG off the shelves.

**Smilodon_UP**

Nomeny wrote:
[..] As Robert pointed out, that detail tends to disappear on the table-top. [..]

It might be wise in general for anyone to always consider carefully whether or not a source may be choosing to promote a specific point of view to justify a decision (or two, or three) already made under an entirely different, and usually unmentioned, rationale.

**JohnHwangDD**

warboss wrote:
Just checked in on the kickstarter page... no updates in almost a full month.

Did all the molds get made in the intervening month?

Update is up.

No molds were made, due to issues with the way parts were detailed.

As a result, the Pod is now looking at early 2016, after missing the 2015 holiday season.

**Nomeny**

DP9 wrote:Sorry we have not posted any new updates in the last few weeks. We've been trying to figure out how to deal with some unexpected problems that have delayed the manufacture of the steel plastic injection molds.

So we'll bring everyone up to speed with this weeks update of whats going on. Back in early August we uploaded all the 3d model parts and plans for what parts get sprued together for each robot in the plastic injection molds. We then had to wait for a the company making the molds to have free space in their production line to look at the parts and get back to us with final sprue layouts. In early September they got back to us with notes on a few detail problems they found with the parts. Mainly some of the raised details being to small to be machined out in the molds and some small areas with knife edges. We knew that our first time making plastic injection molds would be a learning experience. Now we know that the smallest drill used by the machines to cut molds is 0.3 mm in diameter and when the cavity is cut into the mold it leaves a 0.15 mm rounded edge. We have some raised details that are 0.1 and 0.2 mm wide and they all need to be fixed up. Also when two of these round fillet edges are to close to one another the gap between them makes a very fine knife edge of steel in the mold. We have to fill in these areas or make them a bit wider, if we don't the knife edge can get broken off during mold polishing or in the popping of plastic and then that detail is gone from the miniature. In order to properly check all the hundreds of parts for potential problems, we have acquired a new software last week that enables us to preview a parts mold cavity. Our modelers are starting work on checking and making the fixes necessary for the parts to work in the molds and look great.

These fixes are going to take a few weeks to get them all done right. Our planned Backer rewards shipping starting in late October and November is going to get pushed back. We don't know the exact date yet, but once all the parts are fixed it will take about 1 to 2 months for the molds to be made. Then they can go into production, which will take another few weeks. So its not likely that we will able to ship in time for Christmas, but sometime in early 2016.

In other news, work is progressing on the Heavy Gear Blitz Living Rulebook update which should be out later this week. We'll do another Kickstarter update when it goes live to let everyone know to go download it. We have a few preview pages to show, first off is the Game Tokens Sheet, shown below more colorful that before and trying look more like the acrylic game tokens.

**mrondeau**

DP9 wrote:Now we know that the smallest drill used by the machines to cut molds is 0.3 mm in diameter and when the cavity is cut into the mold it leaves a 0.15 mm rounded edge. We have some raised details that are 0.1 and 0.2 mm wide and they all need to be fixed up. Also when two of these round fillet edges are to close to one another the gap between them makes a very fine knife edge of steel in the mold. We have to fill in these areas or make them a bit wider, if we don't the knife edge can get broken off during mold polishing or in the popping of plastic and then that detail is gone from the miniature.

emphasis added
...

That... that's the kind of question you should ask before starting to design the miniatures. It should not come as a surprise during the pre-machining verification.
This is the first lecture of design 101: ask about the constraints before you design, not after.

**Nomeny**

Alternately, like so many constraints to actual production, it wasn't in the specifications and only got noticedd at a step in the process intended to catch such mistakes because actual production is a messier business than Design 101 lets on?

**warboss**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
warboss wrote:
Just checked in on the kickstarter page... no updates in almost a full month.

Did all the molds get made in the intervening month?

Update is up.

No molds were made, due to issues with the way parts were detailed.

As a result, the Pod is now looking at early 2016, after missing the 2015 holiday season.

No complaints here. This is the second time it has happened since a post here by me on dakka asking for one but I don't know if that is just coincidence or causality. In the end, the result is the same and we have an update and I'm happy.

mrondeau wrote:

That... that's the kind of question you should ask before starting to design the miniatures. It should not come as a surprise during the pre-machining verification.
This is the first lecture of design 101: ask about the constraints before you design, not after.

Nomeny wrote:Alternately, like so many constraints to actual production, it wasn't in the specifications and only got noticedd at a step in the process intended to catch such mistakes because actual production is a messier business than Design 101 lets on?

It's one of the first things listed on shapeways when you look at the various materials available. When I uploaded a model, I didn't personally have a way of checking my 3D Max model (at least that I was aware of without any formal instruction) but I was aware of the limitation. I know that's an apples to oranges comparison but it indicates that the info was available at least to a complete noob like me. I'm surprised that this wasn't communicated properly (either the manufacturer flat out saying it or DP9 simply asking about the limitations before designing the models*). I'll classify this under growing pains/learning experience. I expect some amount of stuff like this with a first time KS. As long as the delays don't keep adding up endlessly and the company is honestly communicating about them with backers, I'm fine with it. Basically, don't palladium or prodos the project. My personal inconvience cutoff would be gencon next year. If they haven't done most of the delivery to backers by then, I'll start worrying.

* And, yes, Smilodon, I'm aware of DP9's long history of being told they can't or really shouldn't do something (rules, models, fluff, etc) and then doing it anyways... and then having to correct the "mistake" later.

**mrondeau**

Nomeny wrote:
Alternately, like so many constraints to actual production, it wasn't in the specifications and only got noticedd at a step in the process intended to catch such mistakes because actual production is a messier business than Design 101 lets on?

Alternatively, the smallest possible size of details is a pretty fundamental part of the specification, and a rather obvious thing to ask about if it's not included in the documentation.
When making miniatures, it is, in fact, the kind of things that you use to choose a manufacturer.

**Nomeny**

mrondeau wrote:
Nomeny wrote:
Alternately, like so many constraints to actual production, it wasn't in the specifications and only got noticedd at a step in the process intended to catch such mistakes because actual production is a messier business than Design 101 lets on?

Alternatively, the smallest possible size of details is a pretty fundamental part of the specification, and a rather obvious thing to ask about if it's not included in the documentation.
When making miniatures, it is, in fact, the kind of things that you use to choose a manufacturer.

Sorry, which plastic miniatures do you make and sell?

**mrondeau**

Nomeny wrote:
mrondeau wrote:
Nomeny wrote:
Alternately, like so many constraints to actual production, it wasn't in the specifications and only got noticedd at a step in the process intended to catch such mistakes because actual production is a messier business than Design 101 lets on?

Alternatively, the smallest possible size of details is a pretty fundamental part of the specification, and a rather obvious thing to ask about if it's not included in the documentation.
When making miniatures, it is, in fact, the kind of things that you use to choose a manufacturer.

Sorry, which plastic miniatures do you make and sell?

Thank you for reinforcing my point.

**warboss**

Nomeny wrote:
mrondeau wrote:
Nomeny wrote:
Alternately, like so many constraints to actual production, it wasn't in the specifications and only got noticedd at a step in the process intended to catch such mistakes because actual production is a messier business than Design 101 lets on?

Alternatively, the smallest possible size of details is a pretty fundamental part of the specification, and a rather obvious thing to ask about if it's not included in the documentation.
When making miniatures, it is, in fact, the kind of things that you use to choose a manufacturer.

Sorry, which plastic miniatures do you make and sell?

You don't need to make plastic miniatures to know there are limitations inherent to EVERY manufacturing process just like you don't need to be a trained chef to know that food has an expiration date. It is reasonable, however, to expect professionals in both fields to proactively check and be aware of that before they start to do their job.

**Nomeny**

And yet here an error was caught by professionals doing their jobs. QA exists because professionals doing their jobs are still human.

**HudsonD**

That's not a minor defect that was caught late in the process by dutiful QA, that's a major redo of pretty much the whole line.
Whichever company they picked clearly didn't brief DP9 on design.

**JohnHwangDD**

warboss wrote:
You don't need to make plastic miniatures to know there are limitations inherent to EVERY manufacturing process just like you don't need to be a trained chef to know that food has an expiration date.

I've watched a fair amount of Kitchen Nightmares, and it's not obvious that all chefs understand about expiration dates, or even simple cleanliness. The sheer amount of mold and rotten food I've seen in what are supposed to be professional kitchens is both mind boggling and stomach churning. And in theory, everybody has a basic concept of cooking and cleanliness.

That said, it's a bit odd that the Pod didn't have a clear concept of how their molds would be cut by their manufacturing partner, that no information or specs were provided to the Pod, for them to make allowances for machining. Now, I wonder if they considered materials shrinkage / warpage when cooling, etc...

**Smilodon_UP**

HudsonD wrote:
That's not a minor defect that was caught late in the process by dutiful QA, that's a major redo of pretty much the whole line.
Whichever company they picked clearly didn't brief DP9 on design.

JohnHwangDD wrote:
warboss wrote:
You don't need to make plastic miniatures to know there are limitations inherent to EVERY manufacturing process just like you don't need to be a trained chef to know that food has an expiration date. It is reasonable, however, to expect professionals in both fields to proactively check and be aware of that before they start to do their job.
[..] That said, it's a bit odd that the Pod didn't have a clear concept of how their molds would be cut by their manufacturing partner, that no information or specs were provided to the Pod, for them to make allowances for machining. Now, I wonder if they considered materials shrinkage / warpage when cooling, etc...

Or possibly the information was known but never got communicated to the new artist(s) when the software and renders all got changed back in what, February/March, following completion of the campaign and the initial renders shown last November.

mrondeau wrote:
Nomeny wrote:
Alternately, like so many constraints to actual production, it wasn't in the specifications and only got noticed at a step in the process intended to catch such mistakes because actual production is a messier business than Design 101 lets on?
Alternatively, the smallest possible size of details is a pretty fundamental part of the specification, and a rather obvious thing to ask about if it's not included in the documentation.
When making miniatures, it is, in fact, the kind of things that you use to choose a manufacturer.

As with a couple of other kickstarters, or just miniature molding in general, this seems like a pretty basic point to overlook so late in the process; especially if a firms existing molding process already involves some form of draft/undercut/shrinkage calculations.

I think there was a Pod update or two as well, if not a post by TPTB on the regular forums, already discussing some of those very same manufacturing necessities and limitations.

**Nomeny**

Living Rulebook update is up on Drivethrurpg.com!

**warboss**

If you try it out in game, let us know how it goes and how the changes from the previous version shake out.

**-iPaint-**

Well, Warstore didn't actually have anything I ordered in stock despite having it listed on their site, so there goes those plans...

~iPaint

**JohnHwangDD**

Remember that Heavy Gear computer game a few pages back, and how it was doing?

BattleTech just raised $1M for their computer game...
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/webeharebrained/battletech

They'll probably raise at least $2M by the time they close.

Yeah.