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A delay can only be good. Back to Back to Back to Back to Back to Back to Back kickstarters isn't a great way to have successful and supported tabletop wargames.

Triszin wrote:
I'm happy they decided on a delay for Deadzone 2.0 and Warpath 2.0. I loved the line and if they can spend an extra year getting better digital/actual sculpts before the kickstarter and verify if they will be in hard plastic all the better.

I really want mantic to become the company that threatens GW, so GW becomes scared. Having competition is nothing but good for the consumers.

You're not alone. For me, Deadzone was a massive disappointment. To be perfectly honest, I had actually completely written them off as a second rate knockoff company. The designs are kinda middle of the road.. similar to stuff from Puppetswar and Studio McVey.. and the rules to Deadzone.. eeesh.. what a travesty. Just the whole thing felt extremely sloppy.
HOWEVER..
I got that first batch of hard plastic zombies.. I think with wave 2 if I remember correctly. That, to me signalled that maybe these guys are capable of rising to a higher level. The gaming community really held their feet to the fire though.. and then bam.. Those Enforcers.. and Forgefathers.. I didn't even want to like the Forgefathers.. my instinct was that they were just an easy gimmick to trope in some Space-Tolkien. Those models are fantastic though, and getting that wave 3, man I wish I'd gone in heavier on some FF now.

The problem with this.. is as far as we can tell.. Mantic does well when, like I said.. we hold their feet to the fire. Left alone, they do things like designing half-wolf jeep things... and we have to do something about those tiny hands and feet.

When they do finally step up the Warpath 2.0, I hope they take the time to really tighten up the rules and production release. I like "hard sci-fi" and having a good default ruleset for that is something a lot of us are looking for.

As for GW being scared..
Change in management, change in policies, knee-jerk overhauls to flagship products, token gestures in mail orders, cashing in their IP with video games.. I dunno.. I would say panic mode is already on them. Mantic are not the only wolves at their door either.

Because I've largely heard quite high praise for Deadzone's rules (apart from possibly the balancing of some units, requiring revisions/errata), I'd be really interested in specifically what you found objectionable about them - it doesn't have to be specific rules or anything, it could be to do with the 'feel' or flow of the game.

For example, some friends of mine really don't like the "comparing successes" system of Dreadball, for a boardgame. Perhaps they haven't played enough of it to become intuitive, but they're far happier rolling against a target number. It breaks mental flow for some reason, and they're much happier rolling a bucket of dice in Arcadia Quest.

The models I think are going to be heavily subjective - I have a massive affection for 90s-era stuff, so I like wonky sculpting if the subject is strange enough. And honestly, value for money is key for me - not least because it makes getting friends into a system much, much easier!

Yeah, seriously.

Deadzone's core rulest is the best tabletop thing released in the last 5 years.

I have to admit I was also very dissapointed with deadzone. Rules seemed decent from what I read of them. Problems with rebs being seemingly useless aside. However after a little time cleaning and assembling some of the models it has set in a box untouched since.

I was also planning on getting into Dreadball after Deadzone but I decided against it and havent backed a mantic kickstarter since. The models were not awful but they were very dissapointing after the long wait.

The restic pieces I recived with wave 1 sapped all enthusiasm I had for the game sadly. Mantic has the potential to create some really great stuff. The hard plastic Undead from Kings of War, the Hard plastic undead from Deadzone (I'm sensing a pattern) but I really hope they cut back on shoveling out kickstarters and focus on fleshing out KOW and Warpath with hard plastic core troops. Warpath has been around for years now and barely has two armies worth of models for it and KOW is coming into its second edition with plenty of troop profiles without models for them (Kingdoms of Men being an obvious and intentional exception)

If its all hard plastic, with tight rules I could certainly see myself getting into warpath in the future. Maybe not enough that I would back another kickstarter but I really want the game to do well.

Yes, I think the (single piece & presassembled) Dreadball Xtreme models are night and day compared to DBO! They are possibly less dynamic, but there's tons of detail and very little in the way of mould lines by comparison. And they're not really bendy at all, unlike Mars Attacks - it helps that they don't have weapons.

It now feels more like an actual board game product - I wonder if they will re-do some of the models for DBO in this style, as that remains the "entry-level" system.

All the hard plastic stuff to come out of deadzone has been really nice! Restic stuff isn't inherently bad, but it is more work to put together than hard plastic. Honestly though The 'Board game" plastic they used for dbx seemed even better than restic. I don't think this material is gone but I don't want to work with it in such large quantities again.

My Hopes for deadzone 2.0:
-Some plastic troops for every faction
-some specialists in the 'board game' restic
-slightly cleaned up rules (alot of weird cases that arn't really explained in the rules, alot addressed in FAQ so getting that into a rule book at least!)
-better rules for 100pt games? A lot of the missions fall apart outside of 70 pts, I'd like a way to scale them.

My only concern's for DZ 2 is that I have very little interest in the 'main box' factions which look like they are going to be veer'myn and pathfinders? Hopefully they have 2 other factions like the first kickstarter.

My biggest hope for DZ2 in terms of the starter box is that it be different enough to justify buying the 'same' game again after ouly a couple of years.

Which, frankly, if it's HP Enforcers vs Veer-Myn, would be fine. No doubling up on stuff from the first box (except terrain, can't have too much of that!) and essentially a whole new Faction Starter with the VM. Sure beats the GW 'have more Marines' starters!

There a link to where I can file a missing parts? Is it on the KS page or? Never had this problem with them before

I have it bookmarked, lol

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1l4oVhkzkrVzS1kYEs567bN_-_Iv6m9JrBXQTNEDEHH8/viewform

From what I understand, Mantic is not going to use PVC/Restic for anything anymore. Hard plastic for any infantry, metals/resins for characters, and the boardgame plastic for Dreadball/Mars Attacks/Dungeon Saga/boardgames.

I'm also hoping there's no more hybrid kits like the Jotun Urban Demolisher - if they want to add new weapon arms for the Strider, make the out of restic; Stuntbot and Iron Ancestor, resin; whatever they make the new vehicles out of, etc

I suppose resin arms for restic bots and tracks aren't so bad but please, no metal bits, I can't stand that.

 NTRabbit wrote:
I'm also hoping there's no more hybrid kits like the Jotun Urban Demolisher - if they want to add new weapon arms for the Strider, make the out of restic; Stuntbot and Iron Ancestor, resin; whatever they make the new vehicles out of, etc

I suppose resin arms for restic bots and tracks aren't so bad but please, no metal bits, I can't stand that.

I could see the strider going plastic in the future since it's now used for three factions, would make sense if they were going to be included in a new warpath starter set (Heavily rumoured to have plastic corp troops in it)

I'm happy to hear of their departure from restic. I honeslty can't fathom how people can defend it.. I find it's the biggest pain in the ass to work with.

I personally don't mind metal bits but they do require a bit more work and anything to make modeling easier is good with me

I hope they make the striders plastic.. Those had me so excited and man.. they have big plugs in really really crappy places. I've honestly been afraid to try to clean mine for fear of how the restic will react to removing such large pieces.

Okay.. this next part.. someone specifically asked me what I disliked.. so please.. remember that reading this. I would not have ranted like this if I wasn't specifically asked. I'm not trying to pick a fight or have my opinion swayed. I'm just venting over why I'm pissed off at my $300 pile of paper and restic.

The rules for Deadzone were okay at a first glance.. but there are situations I don't care for.. assaulting elevated units as an example. Armies seem to be designed into a pigeon hole. For instance.. I was asking around about how to actually win with Enforcers and the answer was suppression and play the objectives.. Really? Use the terrain to your advantage was another thing.. okay.. I am not new to tactics. However, when terrain doesn't favor you then what? You just lose because terrain sucked? Plague.. rawr.. my options are run in and assault everything or run in and take the objectives.. and use terrain to your advantage.. Wait.. what? That's it?
Maybe I'm oversimplifying but my own personal experience with the game very much had it feeling like Rock Paper Scissors and rebels.. which is auto-lose. Don't even get me started on how crappy Assault Enforcers are. I was told by numerous people that they're actually quite good.. well.. maybe compared to the other Enforcers.. but compared to where the bar is set by actual assault units.. no.. they suck... hard.

Aside from the rules and lack of a meaningful campaign.. and lack of clarity on equipment.. there were the staggered releases and lack of actual card support. There is actually a thread on the Mantic Forum with instructions to custom print the missing cards. I backed waaaaay too much into that freaking KS to not get the proper cards for everything.. that's a joke and a half.

The cube thing is a neat idea but I think it muddies up the immersion/realism of the game.. which is already pretty low for my own taste.

The people who backed and got a PDF for the expansions.. also a joke.. I spent soooo much on that game and the rules "expansions" which are more like parts of the rulebook that were just not ready in time.. got released as expansions to us? That was extremely off-putting for me. The "art print" was a freaking post card, the counters split while being removed from the sheets (I didn't even have that problem with Sedition Wars), the restic models which have already been lamented. The connectors for the terrain snapping making it very "not modular".
The last few bits of models were literally the only thing about the KS that didn't piss me off. The battlezones are not terible. In fact, for what they are and the kickstarter price they are pretty good.. I would never pay full retail for any of them now though. They're comparable to a Platformer system only Platformer is far cheaper.

Sorry guys.. /rant.
If you're going to try to counterpoint, I just want to tell you I'm probably not going to read it. I've had this conversation with Mantic apologists and from people who genuinely wanted to win me over.. and I tried their suggestions.. and I keep coming back to the same conclusions..

 MLaw wrote:
If you're going to try to counterpoint, I just want to tell you I'm probably not going to read it.

Thanks for pooping in the pool!

 pretre wrote:

 MLaw wrote:
If you're going to try to counterpoint, I just want to tell you I'm probably not going to read it.

Thanks for pooping in the pool!

My reasoning for not reading it was explained. If someone has a reasoned response that isn't counterpoint, I could read that.. but when people sit there going through line by line I don't feel like they're actually trying to have a discussion so much as just tell me how wrong I am.

Fair enough. Dude gave his reasons when he was asked why he didn't like it. Thanks Pretre.

Truth be told, I kind of let Deadzone go by the wayside myself, due to the rules. However, the real reason for that was because the Mars Attack rules were much simpler and smoother to get into, straight out of the box, with no fuss involved. My kids were able to play and remain attentive, which would have been quite difficult with Deadzone.

I've enjoyed my Deadzone stuff though. Finished almost all of my Marauders in fact, a large swathe of Plague, and a considerable chunk of Rebs. Haven't touched any Enforcers yet, or any of the bigger stuff like the Striders. Still waiting on my missing Forge Fathers, and have resorted to painting gobs of Mantic dwarfs in their absence.

The kids have REALLY enjoyed the battlezones. We've built modular "cores" of buildings that they stack/ have me clip together, and have had all sorts of playtime with them. To me, the amount of time and enjoyment they got out of the materials has really made me feel I got my money's worth out of this campaign.

I look forward to seeing the DZ 2.0 rules, as I hope it tightens up all the loose ends and gives me a very defined campaign system that's worth continuing to play.

Highlord, have you not had any of the connectors break? I know I'm not alone on them breaking because I've seen others with the exact same problem. Do you have some sort of technique you use to prevent the breakage? I assembled a few buildings with my core set and after a few games I tried to take them back apart and started snapping the connectors.. I tried pushing them out with tools and everything.. I don't mind the terrain like I said.. it's certainly got it's uses. I just can't seem to get mine to actually behave in a modular fashion.

For pushing things out, I usually use the point of one of the lampposts. That tends to work.

For putting the models together, I think a pair of long nose pliers is the best bet.

It's not truly modular, sure. But it's modular enough that, if you wanted to redo your scenery in 6 months time, or remake walkways etc, you can do it quite happily.

I usually only broke connectors when I got lazy and or grumpy.

It's worth saying, I do have some experience with making the terrain...

I have pretty good luck with a large-ish nail. Something a bit more blunt on the business end would probably do better for longer term usage though.

I used to have them break. For a lot of similar reasons others here mentioned.

I've gotten better at taking them out and putting things back together. I've been trying to put all the tiles inside the game box, and have used those lamp posts along with pliers too.

I've also tried switching out my original DZ clips with the Mars Attack ones. Big difference. I have no idea why either. Those Mars Attacks one have withstood my daughter tearing buildings to pieces and hamfisting her way into smushing them back together, with no breakage at all.

We tend to build tall rather than spread out when we use our DZ stuff too. I like containing everything to one mat, so our gamespaces tend to go up 4 or 5 cubes tall sometimes. I'll have to snap some photos next time we build a sprawl.

Glad to hear Mantic are potentially permanently stepping away form Resic for Warpath/Deadzone, although I think I'm one of the rare few around here that
aren't completely abhorrent to resnic, its not that bad after all. But I do love converting minis to make my armies a bit me personal/unique and Resic is
just god-awful for that, it just doesn't cut well, although the hot water bending is pretty good if limited.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we see plastic Striders in the Deadzone V.02 campaign or very early in the warpath KS. If anything I
could see them adding a 4th variant for the Veer-Myn faction, perhaps a repurposed construction Strider with a Chem-thrower and Power-lifer
(Aliens) style CC claw.

If Mantic could get all that as one HiPs kit were golden.

You can definitely use pliers to remove the connectors without breaking.

To be honest I quickly gave up on the idea of talking apart my battle zones and instead glued them together into cool blocks. I'm more than happy with the scenery I've made by ignoring the rebuild aspect

When I opened my box of Mars Attacks, I was almost taken back to my days when I picked up and opened up a few of those MARX Green Army men sets. The stuff is amazing!!!

Does anyone know what size bases the Forgefather plastic guys go on? My missing forgefathers arrived...without bases.

Also, the order slip in my envelope had a a lot of angry scribbling.

They're on your standard small round bases, so um, 25mm?

 Compel wrote:
They're on your standard small round bases, so um, 25mm?

yea, i ended up checking on mantics site, after i tried putting one on a larger base and it just looked...lost in all the space

It's kinda weird.. I told them I was missing my bases for that shipment.. I listed everything that was in it and they sent a gazillion thick restic discs that I haven't seen before. They're all the larger size though. I will probably just use my Sedition Wars bases on them since the techno zombie things are just going to be put on 25mm bevelled bases anyway.

 MLaw wrote:
It's kinda weird.. I told them I was missing my bases for that shipment.. I listed everything that was in it and they sent a gazillion thick restic discs that I haven't seen before. They're all the larger size though. I will probably just use my Sedition Wars bases on them since the techno zombie things are just going to be put on 25mm bevelled bases anyway.

Those sound like the grey 40mm bases they sent out for the Valkyr bikers, which for some reason did not get the thin black plastic 40mm bases that all the other larger minis got