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 adamsouza wrote:
As for the Manitc Orks being Gorkamorka scale, I'm going to guess your not an actual ork player if you think they're Ork enough to field.
No Warboss worth his wieght in Dakka would field weedy looking orks that are no bigger than a filthy uman or panzee.

Sorry, I'm an ork player back to late RT days. Real orks look like this:


Painted by spevna of the lead adventure forums.

The post-Gorkamorka orks are ogres squished onto 25mm bases.

 frozenwastes wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
As for the Manitc Orks being Gorkamorka scale, I'm going to guess your not an actual ork player if you think they're Ork enough to field.
No Warboss worth his wieght in Dakka would field weedy looking orks that are no bigger than a filthy uman or panzee.

Sorry, I'm an ork player back to late RT days. Real orks look like this:


Painted by spevna of the lead adventure forums.

The post-Gorkamorka orks are ogres squished onto 25mm bases.

LOL! I had 2 out of 4. Not bad.
A hundred Euro doesn't really get you much 40k, nothing much more than kill team anyways and at that you might as well just play a dedicated skirmish game with more in-depth rules.
(Still assuming we have the rules.)

 MWHistorian wrote:
A hundred Euro doesn't really get you much 40k, nothing much more than kill team ...

Your remark is either hyperbole, or you play with really big kill teams

 adamsouza wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
A hundred Euro doesn't really get you much 40k, nothing much more than kill team ...

Your remark is either hyperbole, or you play with really big kill teams

Spoiler:

DV + Razorback = less than 100 Euro
Captain
Librarian
10 Tactical Marines
3 Bikes
5 Termies
Razorback
Hell Brute
Aspiring Champion
Chaos HQ guy
20 cultitists
6 chosen
+ Rulebook
+ dice
+ templates

You're short 2 codecies if nothing else.

A codex and a rulebook. Oh wait, that already puts you at the limit... Now you just need £400 for models and paint and you'll have an army playable for average size games.

If the only options for 100 pounds are found in DV, then 40k isn't really accessible at that price at all. The money will only get you anything of note if you redefine 40k to be a two army game with Chaos and Dark Angels.

DV is a great value for the models it contains. It has many strengths. But the fact that you have to keep pointing back to it shows that it stands alone among all the options GW provides for getting an army at a good value. The very act of continually pointing to its value shows what's wrong with the rest of the 40k line.

"How would you advise a beginner to spend their £100 to get started in WH40k??"

1) Be sure that WH40k is what you really want. And that you're willing to spend much more than that in the future. And possibly repurchasing rules and codexes when they get updated. Bear in mind that the last update to 40k came out only 23 months later. That was 5 months ago, so you should probably prepare to buy a new rulebook within a year and a half, just in case.

2) The £100 isn't going to get you £100 worth of models as you'll need rules as well. And if you've decided that you want to play the current edition of 40k, you're going to spend a sizable percentage of that on a codex for your army.

3) Check to see if either of the armies in Dark Vengeance appeal to you. That box set is pretty much your only option in terms of getting anything like a reasonable sized collection for your money. You'll still face the prospect of increased costs in the future though, as you expand your army outside of the models contained in that starter.

4) You'll also need paints. While GW sells paints you'll get twice as much volume of paint if you go for another manufacturer. Like Vallejo, Coat d'Arms, P3, Armypainter, and others.

5) Take the time to look at other miniatures to see if you either a) find a different game that might appeal more or b) be usable as substitutes for 40k models at a lower price so your £100 can go further.

 adamsouza wrote:

As for the Manitc Orks being Gorkamorka scale, I'm going to guess your not an actual ork player if you think they're Ork enough to field.
No Warboss worth his wieght in Dakka would field weedy looking orks that are no bigger than a filthy uman or panzee.

The Deadzone ones have dog faces. Utter rubbish.

Trukk Boyz - £26.25 (from Dark Sphere)
Flying Lead rules - £5
Infinity rules - £0
Chain Reaction rules - £0
F.A.D. rules - £0
Warpath rules, and the 40K fan-lists (if he/she would like to expand in the future) - £0
Total - £31.25.

That gives the person a fully playable force for several systems, a transport/terrain piece and almost 70 quid to spend on liquor and contraceptives

Very resourceful responses everyone. It's quite a complex question with not many options at 100 quid. But officially buying and not using discount retailers nor eBay goods this question means to challenge the mere idea of " can I join the game with just a 100 quid - and what would it get me?"

Some good combo lists by some of you and many of you have selected the dark vengeance route as it comes with rule book etc and it does seem the most sensible. but as I stated above I would give leeway to the codex and rules because I would expect a friend to lend a hand since it was them who introduced them to wh40k

I'm going to still try play with some items for alternative lists but more opinions are welcome

I'm in the US, so I'm saying that 100 GBP is equal to roughly 160 USD.

If you have a friend who is looking to get into the hobby, you really need to find out what they're most interested in. GW has classically defined "The Hobby" to have four pillars. Not everyone likes all four. The four, incidentally, are collecting, assembling, painting and playing. Enjoyment of fluff generally falls into collecting.

I have friends who play who aren't even remotely interested in painting or the background. They just need models and core rules. I have other friends who don't play much, but love painting. They just need models and paints.

Presumably, you're willing to let your buddy borrow the core rules while he is learning and playing with you. Assuming he picks an army you're not playing, he'll need a codex. The cheapest way to get this is as an eBook version from Black Library at roughly 35 USD. He can pick up a tape measure and a small pack of dice at the local dollar store for about 2 USD. Rules and hobby items are covered.

Now we need models. You're going to help your buddy with assembly, so he's not going to invest in clippers and glue quite yet. Gotta get him hooked first. While Dark Vengeance is the go to for cheap models, not everyone wants power armour. Battleforces average about 110 USD, but can go up or down depending on army. Also, some Battleforces have models that can be used as HQs while others don't. The Tau Battleforce is a perfect example of a good starting point...

Codex: Tau Empire (Black Library eBook, which you can print using any computer with a printer)
(HQ) Crisis Commander w/2 Gun Drones
(Troops) 6x Fire Warriors
(Troops) 6x Fire Warriors
(Elites) 2x Crisis Suits
(Fast Attack) Gun Drone Squadron (6 Drones)
(Fast Attack) Piranha w/2 Gun Drones
Dice
Tape Measure

Total Cost is 157 USD, or 98 GBP. Local pricing might shift this a little, but it's perfectly possible to get a functioning starter army for most factions.

To the people who say, "Yeah, but it costs more to get a 1500 point army!", I would ask this... When you started, was the first game you played at 1500? I can field thousands of points now, but my first game was played out of the 2nd edition equivalent to Dark Vengeance.

100 GBP/160 USD won't get you everything you need, but it can easily get you started.

In the age of Tablets and internet internet piracy, I raise you that ALL of the 40K rulebooks and Codexes are free to anyone with a moral gray area.

If you are willing to play Marines or Chaos Marines DV is they way to go.

If your willing to shop Ebay around, then any army can be had if you are patient enough.

In the last few months I was able to pick up 3 seperate armies( Tau, Necrons, Eldar), codexes included, for less than $150US each.

 Kriswall wrote:
I'm in the US, so I'm saying that 100 GBP is equal to roughly 160 USD.

If you have a friend who is looking to get into the hobby, you really need to find out what they're most interested in. GW has classically defined "The Hobby" to have four pillars. Not everyone likes all four. The four, incidentally, are collecting, assembling, painting and playing. Enjoyment of fluff generally falls into collecting.

I have friends who play who aren't even remotely interested in painting or the background. They just need models and core rules. I have other friends who don't play much, but love painting. They just need models and paints.

Presumably, you're willing to let your buddy borrow the core rules while he is learning and playing with you. Assuming he picks an army you're not playing, he'll need a codex. The cheapest way to get this is as an eBook version from Black Library at roughly 35 USD. He can pick up a tape measure and a small pack of dice at the local dollar store for about 2 USD. Rules and hobby items are covered.

Now we need models. You're going to help your buddy with assembly, so he's not going to invest in clippers and glue quite yet. Gotta get him hooked first. While Dark Vengeance is the go to for cheap models, not everyone wants power armour. Battleforces average about 110 USD, but can go up or down depending on army. Also, some Battleforces have models that can be used as HQs while others don't. The Tau Battleforce is a perfect example of a good starting point...

Codex: Tau Empire (Black Library eBook, which you can print using any computer with a printer)
(HQ) Crisis Commander w/2 Gun Drones
(Troops) 6x Fire Warriors
(Troops) 6x Fire Warriors
(Elites) 2x Crisis Suits
(Fast Attack) Gun Drone Squadron (6 Drones)
(Fast Attack) Piranha w/2 Gun Drones
Dice
Tape Measure

Total Cost is 157 USD, or 98 GBP. Local pricing might shift this a little, but it's perfectly possible to get a functioning starter army for most factions.

To the people who say, "Yeah, but it costs more to get a 1500 point army!", I would ask this... When you started, was the first game you played at 1500? I can field thousands of points now, but my first game was played out of the 2nd edition equivalent to Dark Vengeance.

100 GBP/160 USD won't get you everything you need, but it can easily get you started.

I just wrote down a quick army list that isn't tournament competitive, but would be fun to play in a casual environment using only the models in the Tau Battleforce and came to just over 700 points using a standard CAD. Just pointing out it's perfectly viable to pay full retail and get a starter army.

If you shop eBay or discout stores, you could get the same as above PLUS some extra units. Just depends on what you'd want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 adamsouza wrote:
In the age of Tablets and internet internet piracy, I raise you that ALL of the 40K rulebooks and Codexes are free to anyone with a moral gray area.

If you are willing to play Marines or Chaos Marines DV is they way to go.

If your willing to shop Ebay around, then any army can be had if you are patient enough.

In the last few months I was able to pick up 3 seperate armies( Tau, Necrons, Eldar), codexes included, for less than $150US each.

While I certainly wouldn't recommend piracy, you can definitely pick up a used codex on eBay or maybe a player switching armies for cheaper than retail. I've seen hardback codexes go for 75% off or more if you pay attention and avoid flavor of the month armies.

 adamsouza wrote:

 jonolikespie wrote:
Oh, and a couple of sheets of plasticard and a box of Ork boys will turn any of those historical kits into a great Ork vehicle.

Scratch building orks is probably the most economical means to produce a 40K army, for an experienced modeller, with a lot of time on their hands.

It's not something that is newbie friendly, and again out of the parameters of what the OP asked for.

--

As for the Manitc Orks being Gorkamorka scale, I'm going to guess your not an actual ork player if you think they're Ork enough to field.
No Warboss worth his wieght in Dakka would field weedy looking orks that are no bigger than a filthy uman or panzee.

Oh?


Sorry they're not all painted - that was to hand at the side of my PC

Anyway. I've played GW games since 1984. Even I'd now spend the money elsewhere.
For £100 and you want to play?
Rulebook: £50
Codex: £30
And maybe you could buy a single HQ choice model for your "new army" for £15

The alternative would be to use Chaos or Dark Angels and get the DV box set. At least you get a rulebook.
£65 for DV, but you'd still need to fork out £30 for the Codex for your army.
Maybe a 1/3rd of a full DA army in points and about 1/5th of one for Chaos.

If you've only got £100 for an army... find a different company to GW. You could probably get a full box set with rules, 2 factions, a load of scenery, dice and still have £50 left over to spend on more models.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, I just see GW is releasing the rules for £35.
http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Warhammer-40-000-The-Rules

Mind you, it has a skull on the cover.

/sigh

So you say this person is going to lent the rules and codex? Ok so are they going to be lent clippers, knife, glue, primer, paint brushes, paint etc? If not they are going to be left with a few boxes of plastic stuck on the sprus.

The original header without reading the actual question I would say if GW only a hobby tool set, some glue a few paints and one box of Necron warriors as they are easy to paint and need the least colours and will not put the newbie off in the first place. The detail on Dark Vengeance stuff is insane for a newbie to get their head around.

Overlord in Catacomb Command Barge 22.50
Necron Batlteforce 70.00




Necorn Battledorce + CCB (835pts)

HQ (300pts)

Necron Overlord (300pts)
Mindshackle Scarabs (15pts), Phase Shifter (45pts), Phylactery (15pts), Resurrection Orb (30pts), Sempiternal Weave (15pts), Warscythe (10pts)
Catacomb Command Barge (80pts)

Troops (460pts)

Necron Immortals (85pts)
5x Necron Immortal (85pts)

Necron Warriors (245pts)
Ghost Ark (115pts)
10x Necron Warrior (130pts)

Necron Warriors (130pts)
10x Necron Warrior (130pts)

Fast Attack (75pts)
Canoptek Scarabs (75pts)
5x Canoptek Scarab Base (75pts)

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

No Warboss worth his wieght in Dakka would field weedy looking orks that are no bigger than a filthy uman or panzee.

Oh?

Those are the more expensive DEADZONE restic orks and not the cheap multipart Plastic Warpath Orks



I don't have a size comparison picture because they are all still on the sprue, in the box they came in, because they look like yoofs next to a standar boy.

wait, google...


Mantic scifi and fantasy orks are the same size

Ok how about this for a space marine entry outside the need for codex rule book and a dark vengeance kit.....the nail has been struck where today any literate computer user can can all the rules and codex through pirate portals but dropping this and moving on to hard ware and not worrying about book ware....

Space marine list 2

Tactical squad .....25
Assault marines...20
Assault marines...20
Devastator squad.20.50
Drop pod....22.50

108 quid just slightly over budget but I think it's a possible bring to the table and have a chance list....I'm still thinking for more combos worth the money

If you're happily pirating the rules, why not just steal the stuff from a GW store?

 Riquende wrote:
If you're happily pirating the rules, why not just steal the stuff from a GW store?

There is a qualitiative difference. Models are corporeal things. Books are incoporeal. Pirating a book sold at MAXIMUM GOUGING prices is what GW deserves.

Let's veer away from the pirating thing- OP said he can borrow the rules from him so let's assume he has all the rules that would be required to play.

Buying an "army size" lot on eBay or in the barter section , or buying a starter kit and selling the second half or buy two starter kits with some one else and trade the armies, then you'll both have a rule book, dice, templates and a decent sized army and some one to build and play against, you'll also have an easier time building models, now if you want to know what kind of units to get it really depends on the army .
Tony Aguilera

Well, if we're allowing piracy, then why not allow "importing" models from "alternative" manufacturers in Asia?

1500 points of FW models for £92.46?



It's important we have a set of parameters to operate in, as there are plenty of ideas here which are sticking to the letter of the OP, but are maybe violating the spirit a little?

Try buying leftover Assault on Black Reach boxes?

Buying an "army size" lot on eBay or in the barter section , or buying a starter kit and selling the second half or buy two starter kits with some one else and trade the armies, then you'll both have a rule book, dice, templates and a decent sized army and some one to build and play against, you'll also have an easier time building models, now if you want to know what kind of units to get it really depends on the army .
Tony Aguilera

 Riquende wrote:
If you're happily pirating the rules, why not just steal the stuff from a GW store?

Get off your high horse, the OP has stated numerous times that they can borrow the needed rule books and that this is an exercise at what they can legitmately buy for 100 EU.

People who are disenchanted with GW brought up the cost of the rule bools and pointed out free online alternatives. I mentioned that if your going to get rules online for free that the GW rules are online for free as well.

Let's not derail this thread by kicking the dead horse of piracy discussion

Dark vengeance really sounds like your best bet, or wait for the BA/Nid box rumored to be a few weeks away. DV will give you more options, as you can play a Fallen list (while using DA rules, Chaos rules, OR unbound/CtA). That gives you a lotta bang for your buck. Otherwise, if you aren't playing a GW exclusive only area, pick up models from Warzone, Mantic, or any other less expensive Sci Fi company and borrow those rules you mentioned. Mantic just started posting pictures of on-sprue enforcers, so no more of the restic everyone hates. You can make a decent sized SM army out of those with relative ease. And once the Dreadball Extreme Plague multipart models come out, Chaos would be simple with those models too. And lots of plasticard for vehicles. But there are definitely options. eBay or DV are really your only choices with staying completely true to GW though and getting a decent value.

Tau:
2 boxes of fire warriors - ~66
devilfish ~30

~90 bucks for a basic starter Tau army.
with the spotters from the devil fish box you can convert a fireblade easy, so not you have a max of 4 6 man fire warriors, 1 transport, and 1 HQ

Or do as I did, and use bartertown/dakka and ebay. 120 Hormagaunts for 50 bucks

If you''re looking to move away from DV, shop at a GW store / GW online and get a tasty army that isn't marines, then there are two boxes that spring to mind:

Tyranid Swarm with lots of, erm, Tyranids in it

Cadian Defence Force:
1 Cadian Command Squad
2 10 man Cadian Squads
3 Heavy Weapon teams
Chimera
Leman Russ

I don't know what that works out as in points off the top of my head but is a very good core to build on

 adamsouza wrote:

 Riquende wrote:
If you're happily pirating the rules, why not just steal the stuff from a GW store?

Get off your high horse, the OP has stated numerous times that they can borrow the needed rule books and that this is an exercise at what they can legitmately buy for 100 EU.

People who are disenchanted with GW brought up the cost of the rule bools and pointed out free online alternatives. I mentioned that if your going to get rules online for free that the GW rules are online for free as well.

Let's not derail this thread by kicking the dead horse of piracy discussion

Oh get off your own. You brought up piracy, and are now pleading to stop discussing it. You have no clue what my stance is on piracy of any kind, whether it be software (virus-ridden OS sounds fun), GW books (don't condemn it, but as I don't play it's of no interest to me) or golden age of on the high seas (more like it).

It is interesting to note that the caveat has to be added that this prospective new gamer can forego buying the rules, or any paints, glues, assembly tools etc (like the GW staffers would let that go without a hard add-on sell) to make the question even vaguely answerable. Obviously when you're a long term gamer it's easy to lose sight of all the sundry costs involved in the wider hobby (my racks of paints must have cost £hundreds themselves, but you don't notice that building up over the... decades. Yikes).

Excluding the natural bloat involved in a Kickstarter pledge, I don't recall the last time a new game cost me remotely close to £100 to start off in. In fact, I'm not sure it's even cost me that to get 'full size' forces in games. 40K is weird.

Modelling supplies do not have to cost a lot.

My primers is $1 cans of spray paint from Walmart
My Acrylics are from a craft store, usually bought on sale 3-4 for $1
My brushes are bought from craft store with 40% off coupons, and occasionally the Dollar Store
Clippers/plyers/blades,etc... Dollar Store
My paint racks are made from cardboard or foamcore

When we gain a new player he usually plays with a borrowed army, codex, dicer, templates, and rulebook.
We usually let him know about Battlescribe to make army lists.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I'm looking at the stuff I've been buying recently. It' demonstrates how little mileage you get out of GW product.

I'd tell them to buy Warzone. You can download the rules for free and a starter box for an army plus a pile of related boosters will come in at less than £100 and have all the rules for them.

Or maybe Flames of War, Dark Sphere does the 3rd edition Open Fire for £32 and you can get a heap of blisters or boxes to make up the £100.

Or Batman Miniatures Game, if they like Batman. Download the rules again, buy a heap of packs for the charactes you like. You're ready to go.

All I hear is jealousy because all of those games are inferior to the 40k universe.

As to the OP, I'd advise the website Bartertown if you're trying to get in on a budget, but I think they might be mostly American, so shipping may be an issue.
If the rules can be borrowed, just get any of the Battleforce boxes and you'll be good to go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necron one is a great deal.