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 Pyeatt wrote:


All I hear is jealousy because all of those games are inferior to the 40k universe.

Sorry, but Flames of War is on that list and World War 2 was the largest conflict in human history with everything from close combat to the deployment of atomic weaponry. Across pretty much every terrain type and climate imaginable. The "universe" of 40k has nothing on the sheer breadth and depth of the possibilities of gaming in WW2. It's not jealousy to recommend actual history rather than a hodge-podge sci-fi universe that's targeted at teenagers.

EDIT: While I'm not a Flames of War fan myself, I see serious value in their new plastic kits for WW2 gaming in general.

It's funny you get all riled up about 40k then use FoW (the bland over priced 40k of historics) as a shining example of how to do it.

You know your doing that right?

 notprop wrote:
It's funny you get all riled up about 40k then use FoW (the bland over priced 40k of historics) as a shining example of how to do it.

You know your doing that right?

Yeah, that was sort of unintentional. I have long ago done away with using a single source for both miniatures and rules. Some of my 15mm WW2 is made by Battlefront and their new plastic platoons with transport vehicles for everyone are a great value. But I tend to use rules like Battlegroup, Bolt Action and Chain of Command.

I edited my post. Thanks!

---

BG FTW!

I'd get Warlord Games British troops from the Anglo-Zulu war range and use them as Praetorians.

Probably the Anglo-Zulu War British Starter Army for £70, the Heroes of Rorke's Drift set for officers at £7.50, and another Gatling gun from Empress miniatures for £13.

That would be 60 guardsmen, 20 conscripts (the natal native contingent) 4 officers, and 2 Gatling guns to count as whatever. For £90.5

I have no idea how many IG points that would be

 Pyeatt wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I'm looking at the stuff I've been buying recently. It' demonstrates how little mileage you get out of GW product.

I'd tell them to buy Warzone. You can download the rules for free and a starter box for an army plus a pile of related boosters will come in at less than £100 and have all the rules for them.

Or maybe Flames of War, Dark Sphere does the 3rd edition Open Fire for £32 and you can get a heap of blisters or boxes to make up the £100.

Or Batman Miniatures Game, if they like Batman. Download the rules again, buy a heap of packs for the charactes you like. You're ready to go.

All I hear is jealousy because I believe all of those games are inferior to the 40k universe.

As to the OP, I'd advise the website Bartertown if you're trying to get in on a budget, but I think they might be mostly American, so shipping may be an issue.
If the rules can be borrowed, just get any of the Battleforce boxes and you'll be good to go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necron one is a great deal.

Corrected your post for you.

 Pyeatt wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I'm looking at the stuff I've been buying recently. It' demonstrates how little mileage you get out of GW product.

I'd tell them to buy Warzone. You can download the rules for free and a starter box for an army plus a pile of related boosters will come in at less than £100 and have all the rules for them.

Or maybe Flames of War, Dark Sphere does the 3rd edition Open Fire for £32 and you can get a heap of blisters or boxes to make up the £100.

Or Batman Miniatures Game, if they like Batman. Download the rules again, buy a heap of packs for the charactes you like. You're ready to go.

All I hear is jealousy because all of those games are inferior to the 40k universe.

I don't even understand what I'm 'jealous' of. They're just suggestions of other good quality, cheaper games to buy into. I *like* the 40k universe, I still paint the models occasionally, I have a necromunda and mordheim gang here to paint, and I'd like to get into the RPGs like Dark Heresy.

Assuming rules can easily be pirated, a 500 point list that gives a bit of experience with a few different unit types:

Captain
Sniper Scouts
Tactical w/Rhino
Stormtalon

GW Basecoat brush
GW Detail brush
GW Detail brush

Vallejo Game Air (saves on the 'thin your paints' lesson a bit!) Dead White
Game Air Black
Game Air Chainmail Silver
Game Air Leather Brown
Game Air Bloody Red
Game Air Ultramarine Blue
Game Air Gold Yellow.

£100.88 on Dark Sphere

It's tough because that doesn't include glue, knife, clippers, files, rules, terrain or basing but I think you can just about get by without them (apart from glue, so add on £3 for that I suppose).

Otherwise, I think that's a decent start to the hobby for £100.

 adamsouza wrote:
Modelling supplies do not have to cost a lot.

My primers is $1 cans of spray paint from Walmart
My Acrylics are from a craft store, usually bought on sale 3-4 for $1
My brushes are bought from craft store with 40% off coupons, and occasionally the Dollar Store
Clippers/plyers/blades,etc... Dollar Store
My paint racks are made from cardboard or foamcore

When we gain a new player he usually plays with a borrowed army, codex, dicer, templates, and rulebook.
We usually let him know about Battlescribe to make army lists.

I get the feeling you shop at Hobby Lobby occasionally. That 40% off one item coupon is great, and the stores around here have started stocking Vallejo paints.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

I get the feeling you shop at Hobby Lobby occasionally. That 40% off one item coupon is great, and the stores around here have started stocking Vallejo paints.

Good guess. From what I hear, here on DakkaDakka, Hobby Lobby sounds like a place I would enjoy, but I've never been to one.

Around here we have A.C. Moore and Michaels, which are targeted more at soccer moms. When they opened up across the street from each other they ended up in a permanent price war offereing a 40-50% coupon every week.

I'd happily burn one,or both, to the ground to get a Hobby Lobby with casting supplies in it's place.

 adamsouza wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

I get the feeling you shop at Hobby Lobby occasionally. That 40% off one item coupon is great, and the stores around here have started stocking Vallejo paints.

Good guess. From what I hear, here on DakkaDakka, Hobby Lobby sounds like a place I would enjoy, but I've never been to one.

Around here we have A.C. Moore and Michaels, which are targeted more at soccer moms. When they opened up across the street from each other they ended up in a permanent price war offereing a 40-50% coupon every week.

I'd happily burn one,or both, to the ground to get a Hobby Lobby with casting supplies in it's place.

Yeah, Michaels are a rare breed where I am, and I've never seen an A.C. Moore. HL isn't too different though, just has a few things(like casting stuff) the others don't. They're all geared towards Suburbanites.

I use their app, which gives a weekly 40% off one item coupon, and tells me what's on sale any given day. Since the closest one is an hour away it can save me a trip if what I want to buy isn't on sale.

 Pyeatt wrote:


All I hear is jealousy because all of those games are inferior to the 40k universe

Yer.... they never fully developed that WW2 storyline, and the ending was just pants.

Ok so how about this

Space wolves warriors of the fang looks like good value for money but is it considered a starter?

That goes for the blood angels battle force - at 70 quid another 30 can be used for Baal predator, dred, sterns, termies, or vindicator

 kerikhaos wrote:
Ok so how about this

Space wolves warriors of the fang looks like good value for money but is it considered a starter?

That goes for the blood angels battle force - at 70 quid another 30 can be used for Baal predator, dred, sterns, termies, or vindicator

Well, the Warriors of the Fang looks to be 105 pounds, unless you're getting it at discount somewhere; either way I'm guessing you won't have anything left after you buy that.

That being said, the box set is a pretty good starter, giving you a bulk of Space Wolves. Maybe you could use whatever money you have left to buy some weapon option bitz on eBay or some other bitz vendor.

Now, did you want to do Space Wolves or Blood Angels? Because the iconography for either will be covering their respective box sets.

Some SM variant, for example.

Codex of choice. £28

Go halfers on two DV with a friend. Alternatively, Ebay the additional models for pretty much the same cost, if not cheaper. Or just ask at the FLGS if anyone wants to split. £52
2 Company Master
2 Librarian
10 Terminators
20 Tactical Marines
6 Bikes

That leaves 20 fething quid for paints and brushes. That's an amazing deal and a fantastic start to 40k, providing you with dozens if not hundreds of hours of entertainment. Anyone who says 40k is expensive to get into is either a fool or they just want it to be expensive.

 Barksdale wrote:
Some SM variant, for example.

Codex of choice. £28

Go halfers on two DV with a friend. £52
2 Company Master
2 Librarian
10 Terminators
20 Tactical Marines
6 Bikes

That leaves 20 fething quid for paints and brushes. That's an amazing deal and a fantastic start to 40k, providing you with dozens if not hundreds of hours of entertainment. Anyone who says 40k is expensive to get into is a fool or they just want it to be expensive.

Or they want one of the many other factions that isn't Dark Angels or Chaos Marines. I'm leaning towards the idea that many of the people who complain are the latter. You're right though, it is a good deal if you happen to like one of those armies, but if not, you often have to pay a silly amount of money for even a small starter army.

Yeah.. please guys comeup with a 100er starter set for stuff that is not covered with the Dark Vengeance box :(

RoninXiC wrote:
Yeah.. please guys comeup with a 100er starter set for stuff that is not covered with the Dark Vengeance box :(

Deadawake1347 wrote:


Or they want one of the many other factions that isn't Dark Angels or Chaos Marines. I'm leaning towards the idea that many of the people who complain are the latter. You're right though, it is a good deal if you happen to like one of those armies, but if not, you often have to pay a silly amount of money for even a small starter army.

Who says you need to do Dark Angels? You can do ANY SM variant you want. That's what, 4-5 different codexes? That's a lot of choices.....

And that's exactly how I'd advise a newcomer to 40k to get started...

I highly suggest just posting stuff you want on the swap shop here, or bartertown.

I most recently heard reddit is pretty good as well.

 Barksdale wrote:

Deadawake1347 wrote:


Or they want one of the many other factions that isn't Dark Angels or Chaos Marines. I'm leaning towards the idea that many of the people who complain are the latter. You're right though, it is a good deal if you happen to like one of those armies, but if not, you often have to pay a silly amount of money for even a small starter army.

Who says you need to do Dark Angels? You can do ANY SM variant you want. That's what, 4-5 different codex choices? That's a lot of choices.....

Not really, though. The Dark Angels in the DV box are fairly obviously Dark Angels, every one of them is covered in the iconography of that chapter. It'd be very hard to use them as say, Space Wolves or Grey Knights. And that's not bringing up the issue of them being outfitted in a very specific manner since they're all snap-fit models. I mean, sure, if you really want to you can use them as 'couts as' models, but you can do that with literally anything.

Deadawake1347 wrote:

Not really, though. The Dark Angels in the DV box are fairly obviously Dark Angels, every one of them is covered in the iconography of that chapter. It'd be very hard to use them as say, Space Wolves or Grey Knights. And that's not bringing up the issue of them being outfitted in a very specific manner since they're all snap-fit models. I mean, sure, if you really want to you can use them as 'couts as' models, but you can do that with literally anything.

Really, you can. Paint them up to be whatever chapter you want. Don't be TFG.

 Barksdale wrote:
Some SM variant, for example.

Codex of choice. £28

Go halfers on two DV with a friend. £52
2 Company Master
2 Librarian
10 Terminators
20 Tactical Marines
6 Bikes

That leaves 20 fething quid for paints and brushes. That's an amazing deal and a fantastic start to 40k, providing you with dozens if not hundreds of hours of entertainment. Anyone who says 40k is expensive to get into is a fool or they just want it to be expensive.

How much does the friend cost?

So for this deal, you need mate who wants to buy in as well. Its a shame it has such a constraint.

Big P wrote:
How much does the friend cost?

So for this deal, you need mate who wants to buy in as well. Its a shame it has such a constraint.

Alternatively, Ebay the additional models for pretty much the same cost, if not cheaper. Or ask at the FLGS if anyone is interested in splitting. Lots of options mate.

But then you need to buy two DV sets up front and hope to recoup via Ebay, losing costs on Ebay and Paypal charges... not too mention loss on retail value.

Yer... aint working for me. Besides, I picked up the DV Chaos stuff for very cheap on Ebay...

Im not sure basing a premise for expensive game entry on buying two sets to then Ebay parts is a runner... same as the prerequisite of needing a chum. But yes, its an option if you have the opportunity, you are correct.

Surely the 'buy in' with £100 is better done secondhand.

Big P wrote:
Besides, I picked up the DV Chaos stuff for very cheap on Ebay...

This is exactly what I'm talking about.... Glad we agree! DV splits are cheap as chips on ebay.

Big P wrote:
Surely the 'buy in' with £100 is better done secondhand.

This is also a possibility. But I'd still suggest the DV space marine variant options. New models are always better IMHO.

Let's just let the DV box go, please. There are *way* more options into 40k.

Some people might not want the Dark Angel iconography all over their units; while the DV box set is quite nice, there is much greater ubiquity in the regular Space Marine kits, hence my questioning the OP on what sort of SM army he was going for.

At this point, I think it is safe to assume the OP is very aware that DV is the cheapest option for starter materials. But if he doesn't want that set because (a) it has two different armies and there is only interest in one (and no one else to trade the other half to) or (b) the iconography isn't to his liking, then I think continuing to offer greater options is the best path.

Big P wrote:

 Pyeatt wrote:


All I hear is jealousy because all of those games are inferior to the 40k universe

Yer.... they never fully developed that WW2 storyline, and the ending was just pants.

That ending was total Deus Ex Machina. I mean, "Oh, a super weapon we've been developing in secret!" Soooo cliche'.

 Barksdale wrote:
Some SM variant, for example.

Codex of choice. £28

Go halfers on two DV with a friend. Alternatively, Ebay the additional models for pretty much the same cost, if not cheaper. Or just ask at the FLGS if anyone wants to split. £52
2 Company Master
2 Librarian
10 Terminators
20 Tactical Marines
6 Bikes

That leaves 20 fething quid for paints and brushes. That's an amazing deal and a fantastic start to 40k, providing you with dozens if not hundreds of hours of entertainment. Anyone who says 40k is expensive to get into is either a fool or they just want it to be expensive.

What if you want to play an army that isn't Chaos or DA. Not as cheap then. Also a codex is £30 and DV is £65 so that's a fiver for paints and brushes.

 Barksdale wrote:
Anyone who says 40k is expensive to get into is either a fool or they just want it to be expensive.

Or just doesn't want to play Space Marines.

 Barksdale wrote:

Deadawake1347 wrote:

Not really, though. The Dark Angels in the DV box are fairly obviously Dark Angels, every one of them is covered in the iconography of that chapter. It'd be very hard to use them as say, Space Wolves or Grey Knights. And that's not bringing up the issue of them being outfitted in a very specific manner since they're all snap-fit models. I mean, sure, if you really want to you can use them as 'couts as' models, but you can do that with literally anything.

Really, you can. Paint them up to be whatever chapter you want. Don't be TFG.

So, what you're saying is that I'm TFG for saying that Dark Angels are Dark Angels, not Grey Knights, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, or vanilla Marines? I'm just pointing out a fact there. If you're going to use a counts as to save money, why not save a lot more money by using a cheaper counts as? Aside from which, it still doesn't help anyone who's not interested in some flavor of Marines.