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I decided to spend some extra money I got on assembling a new WHFB army. Before starting playing fantasy I was between VC and WoC, being a Chaos Marine player and liking a lot the lore of the chaos gods and norse tribes i decided to get me a WoC army, not without spending on a vampire lord miniature and a corpse cart. So, 6 years later I feel I should get some undead friends for my lonely vampire.

So, atm I have a vampire count on foot, a corpse cart, Krell and just bought a terrorgheist, since I have a limited budget I'm going to buy exactly what I need and make use of what I already have.

So...

Lords

Vampire Lord - Heavy Armour, Lore of the Vampires, Wizard Lvl 4, Red Fury, General of the undeath, Barded Nightmare, Enchanted Shield, Sword of Might, Talisman of Endurance

Heroes:

Vampire - Heavy Armour, Shield, Wizard Lvl 1, Dispell Scroll
Wight King - Shield, Dragonhelm, Ironcurse Icon

Core:

30 Crypt Ghouls
40 Skeleton Warriors - FC, Banner of eternal flame

30 Zombies

Special

10 Black Knights - Lances, The screaming Banner

Corpse Cart - Balefire

20 Grave Guard - FC, Shields, Banner of Barrows

Rare

Terrorgheist
Terrorgheist

Total: 2500 pts

I was told by some friends who don't play VC but are more into fantasy that the Terrorgheist is pretty much a must, and that a decked vampire lord with some black knights is a common unit among VCs, so build something around those.

I wrecked a terrorgheist with a naked daemon slayer, but to be fair, he wrecks every monster he touches, I'd put more grave guard since I imagine they're a target and they're too good to have in such low numbers

Looks like a fun list, double gheists will hurt lol, as above more Gg if ya can will help, if your having a hard time finding points your level one vampire could probably become a lvl 2 necromancer instead with master of dead.
personally I'd drop zombies for a small skely bunker (that will grow with the necro In it). that way you can use zombie models for using raise dead for screwing with your opponents charges/frenzy whether you lining up flank charges with skellies or even something as simple as let him over Un you zombie unit into a block of yours but at least the combat phase will be fought on YOUR turn not theirs.

sword of striking on your wight king, hitting everything on 2 or auto is wicked awesome!

hope some of this helps!

Yah, more grave guard sounds nice, also getting some more skellies, I'll play with the numbers and see if I can get a Necro at my FLGS

 Lord Yayula wrote:
I decided to spend some extra money I got on assembling a new WHFB army. Before starting playing fantasy I was between VC and WoC, being a Chaos Marine player and liking a lot the lore of the chaos gods and norse tribes i decided to get me a WoC army, not without spending on a vampire lord miniature and a corpse cart. So, 6 years later I feel I should get some undead friends for my lonely vampire.

So, atm I have a vampire count on foot, a corpse cart, Krell and just bought a terrorgheist, since I have a limited budget I'm going to buy exactly what I need and make use of what I already have.

So...

Lords

Vampire Lord - Heavy Armour, Lore of the Vampires, Wizard Lvl 4, Red Fury, General of the undeath, Barded Nightmare, Enchanted Shield, Sword of Might, Talisman of Endurance
With Vampire Lords, probably moreso than any other character in the game, you go all in or you don't go at all, not knowing what you're going to face specifically, I'd go for the following; Barded Horsey, Heavy Armour, Enchanted Shield, Ogre Blade, Talisman of Preservation, Quick Blood, Red Fury, Beguile, Level 4 Lore of Vampires. This allows you to put out an absurd amount of damage, whilst taking pracitcally nothing in return, this will allow you to lift the weight for your Black Knights, like he is supposed to, level 4 because it both helps you get invocation off and lets it heal for as much as it can.

Heroes:

Vampire - Heavy Armour, Shield, Wizard Lvl 1, Dispell Scroll
Vampires cost a lot so they need to have a specific role, and it should never be scroll caddy, if you want a scroll caddy, take a necromancer

Wight King - Shield, Dragonhelm, Ironcurse Icon
He's sorta tanky, but he isn't really doing anything, he doesn't add much hitting power, so there is not point in attacking him anyway unless there is no other target available that is

Core:

30 Crypt Ghouls
They want a unit champ, but that's about it

40 Skeleton Warriors - FC, Banner of eternal flame
Skeletons do no damage, save the flaming banner for something that actually hurts

30 Zombies
Could use with a banner, and could probably be dropped down to 20 when you get some necros into the list

Special

10 Black Knights - Lances, The screaming Banner
Drop the screaming banner, it's a gimmick that also requires at least another 150 points to even work properly, if you want this unit to hit on 3s, take banner of the barrows and hit on 3s all the time anyway, especially since most of what your lord will be fighting causes either fear or terror or is probably immune to psychology or even a combo, that or is Ld 9-10 with re-rolls so there is no point into sinking your hopes on a fear test make sure this unit has barding and full command and bump it up to 15 or so at least

Corpse Cart - Balefire
This is ok, I guess, the ASF aura is nice, but you need to sink too much magic wise just so they can keep pace with the army, too much effort for too little reward imo, just cast vanhel's on the unit and give it re-rolls to hit, since most of the time you have enough bodies that incoming attacks will not reduce your outgoing attacks, you get an even better outcome, since you weren't getting re-rolls to hit off of ASF anyway.

20 Grave Guard - FC, Shields, Banner of Barrows
Grave Guard are weird they kill heavy cav and heavy infantry pretty well, but we can already do that with terrorgheists, the casket and blender lords, and even then they need great weapons to do decent damage, these guys would be better if they had 2 attacks each maybe, but they don't fare well against light infantry with multiple attacks (ghouls, savage orcs, etc) which you already have ghouls for anyway, may as well save the points, drop the unit and buy other, nicer things with the points, like spirit hosts.

Rare

Terrorgheist
Terrorgheist

Rares look good, but a casket of souls or a hierotitan would make it even better
Total: 2500 pts

I was told by some friends who don't play VC but are more into fantasy that the Terrorgheist is pretty much a must, and that a decked vampire lord with some black knights is a common unit among VCs, so build something around those.

Thou have the knight who do what the grave guard do, but better. I'd drop the guard for characters. A level 4 necromancer (you do NOT want to cast with your Lord), red fury asf sword baby vamp, and a couple of get Kings.

Give the vampire Lord an enchanted shield, bearded deathpony, heavy armour, ogre blade, quickblood, and red fury. The rest are peripherals. That gives you the static res of the Knights without having to worry about anything bar the supermodels that are out, as well as the Killy characters so you don't have to worry about rubber lance syndrome.

Yeah, two Terrogheists are pretty essential to any Vampire Counts army to flank the opposition, only problem being their death scream, which, although it is really effective, only has a range of 8 inches. Still, it one of the best-looking and most effective models they've got so it's always worth a try. The Covern Throne/Mortis Engine is also quite effective (which one you use though depends on what army you're versing) not to mention really cool to play as. Crypt Ghouls/Vargheists are pretty cool as well and preform some of the most powerful close combat attacks the VC's have. Hope this helps and happy playing!

Thank to everyone, I will take your suggestions into account and get me the army on black friday, play some games with and come back for more feedback in what to get for other lists.

Honestly I would drop the knights for more gg and put the blender lord in the with the gg. Another personal preference for me is to give the gg great weapons to take advantage of their high strength

 Ustrello wrote:
Honestly I would drop the knights for more gg and put the blender lord in the with the gg. Another personal preference for me is to give the gg great weapons to take advantage of their high strength

So you want to make the Vampire lord more vulnerable?

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
Honestly I would drop the knights for more gg and put the blender lord in the with the gg. Another personal preference for me is to give the gg great weapons to take advantage of their high strength

So you want to make the Vampire lord more vulnerable?

So you lose one armor save, and gain arguably a stronger overall unit and will save the VL from getting hits in shooting. I honestly don't see how thats making him more vulnerable

 Ustrello wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
Honestly I would drop the knights for more gg and put the blender lord in the with the gg. Another personal preference for me is to give the gg great weapons to take advantage of their high strength

So you want to make the Vampire lord more vulnerable?

So you lose one armor save, and gain arguably a stronger overall unit and will save the VL from getting hits in shooting. I honestly don't see how thats making him more vulnerable

How is the unit stronger?

It's slower, has wider frontage( Lock up the vampire lord with a chaff block, and decimate the unit. Dead vampire lord) and isn't immune to thunderstomp.

With the Black Knights, you can minimise attacks on the unit with 3 models. Move over 15" a turn, And make sure your opponent has to commit to fighting it. AND, it's immune to thunderstomp.

There are 0 reasons to take Grave Guard over Black Knights. Hell, there's no reason to take a VC infantry list over a VC cavalry list.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
Honestly I would drop the knights for more gg and put the blender lord in the with the gg. Another personal preference for me is to give the gg great weapons to take advantage of their high strength

So you want to make the Vampire lord more vulnerable?

So you lose one armor save, and gain arguably a stronger overall unit and will save the VL from getting hits in shooting. I honestly don't see how thats making him more vulnerable

How is the unit stronger?

It's slower, has wider frontage( Lock up the vampire lord with a chaff block, and decimate the unit. Dead vampire lord) and isn't immune to thunderstomp.

With the Black Knights, you can minimise attacks on the unit with 3 models. Move over 15" a turn, And make sure your opponent has to commit to fighting it. AND, it's immune to thunderstomp.

There are 0 reasons to take Grave Guard over Black Knights. Hell, there's no reason to take a VC infantry list over a VC cavalry list.

9 wounds compared to 40 plus. You are fighting franz he doesn't make way out of fear you dont either. Franz would rip through the black knights leaving the vampire lord alone.
and if you honestly think that a chaff unit could defeat a GW grave guard unit you haven't played VC before

ok I'm not one to try and argue what's better cav or infantry. but saying Gg are never ever worth black knights is drastically overlooking the foot sluggers, for starters anything that runs into a 40 man unit of Str 6 AND a vampire lord will be dead in a single turn of attacks. unless of course it's a daemon prince then it'll be dead in 2 turns

secondly units of chaff DO NOT tie up a vampire lord. Literally almost impossible unless by chaff you mean 10 chaos knights or 5 skull crushers or something to that effect because otherwise a guy rocking 5 asf attacks and swinging again for every scrub he paints his armor with will blend light armor with hilarious efficiency.

thirdly what is tieing up and decimating 40 Gg with a vamp lord in it faster than its tieing up a small hand full of str 4 knights? In my experience having static combat res for banners and ranks etc has proven very useful especially considering losing combat by 1 will mean yes a Gg will die, much easier to take than a cavalry dying from CR no?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
anything with thunderstomp**

 Ustrello wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:
Honestly I would drop the knights for more gg and put the blender lord in the with the gg. Another personal preference for me is to give the gg great weapons to take advantage of their high strength

So you want to make the Vampire lord more vulnerable?

So you lose one armor save, and gain arguably a stronger overall unit and will save the VL from getting hits in shooting. I honestly don't see how thats making him more vulnerable

How is the unit stronger?

It's slower, has wider frontage( Lock up the vampire lord with a chaff block, and decimate the unit. Dead vampire lord) and isn't immune to thunderstomp.

With the Black Knights, you can minimise attacks on the unit with 3 models. Move over 15" a turn, And make sure your opponent has to commit to fighting it. AND, it's immune to thunderstomp.

There are 0 reasons to take Grave Guard over Black Knights. Hell, there's no reason to take a VC infantry list over a VC cavalry list.

9 wounds compared to 40 plus. You are fighting franz he doesn't make way out of fear you dont either. Franz would rip through the black knights leaving the vampire lord alone.
and if you honestly think that a chaff unit could defeat a GW grave guard unit you haven't played VC before

Th w number of wounds is irrelevant. It's not the Knights who do the fighting. there are going to be zero black Knights in contact anyway.

As for Karl Franz, you are aware that a vc list can avoid fighting him I'm a unit easily, right? Just charge a unit of dogs into him, stop him making way, and put the bus in the open part of the unit. Something that a horde can't do, because of their frontage.

And i never said that a chaff unit can defeat a grave guard horde. I said, that a chaff unit charges into the vampire Lord as well as the main unit. That means that the vampire Lord can do a maximum of five wounds. And he'll crumble. Something that will literally never happen in the bus. Plus they don't have to fear multiple monster charges, unlike grave guard.

What kind of super bus and unstoppable chaff are you sending in that are going to crumble a vamp lord and what's left of 40 Gg? and I don't think you've played much VC if you think that a chaff unit isn't going to take more than 5 wounds from the vamp lord, red fury dude he gets an attack after each unsaved wound, my Vampire lord typically pulls 6-8 on average wounds per combat against 5 up armor. Also no matter what kind of bus you send into the gravegaurd they are 7 or more wide by 3 deep for horde not to mention the ones swinging into your chaff unit which if its alive at the end of combat will be leaving combat most likely due to testing for a break test.

Also considering the bus and chaff charge on your turn the VC will be counter charging on his turn or setting up redirects to make sure his lord can make way and start stripping ranks by the pair from your bus.

Also wounds kind of matter, your knights would crumble about 4 times faster than the Gg unit. at least the Gg can eat a couple losses to have something else come help if it really came down to it. knights simply cant and they don't have the power to maintain combat after the first turn they charge....

I´m not a big fun of deathstar buses but if you are going to have one than:

Vamp Lord LoV 4, Talisman of preservation,Heavy Armour,Great Weapon,Quick Blood,Red Fury, Black Periapt, 2+,4++

Necro Lov 2 Dispel Scroll, Book Of Arkhan
Vamp Lov 2,Quick Blood, Sword of Might, Talisman Of Protection,Enchanted Shield,Nightmare,Heavy Armour, 1+,6++

Here you need chaff,so either you give up the zombie for 2 5x dire wolves,either you take away the skeletons for a bigger horde of ghouls,either you take away the ghouls for a 50+ skelly unit.

Special,u have too lttle GG,i would take them away for 6 Crypt Horrors or again take the points left for taking away the ghouls and go at least with a 30+

TG is nice,i killed some sweet stuff with it,but attract fire like bee on honey.
Even some people hate to mix,u need to give a try to the mortis engine,is just too good to not use it.

My 2cent is: U need some chaff,a strong anvil(something that takes a lot of damage and keep the foes busy) and a strong hammer (your cavalry)
Plus you need to be strong in magic (the periapt does some miracles) and the book of arkhan is a must (reroll to hit and an extra move?oh gak yes,please) because you need to raise your dudes faster than the enemy can kill them.
Which is why you need at least 2 Invocation on the buses,they will dispell your invocation as hell and you need to get some dudes back ASAP.
plus dont even think to accept challenge with your vampires,they are there to get combat resolution,thsats why we get the champ back fiorst in the invocation.

 rocksteadygreeny wrote:
What kind of super bus and unstoppable chaff are you sending in that are going to crumble a vamp lord and what's left of 40 Gg? and I don't think you've played much VC if you think that a chaff unit isn't going to take more than 5 wounds from the vamp lord, red fury dude he gets an attack after each unsaved wound, my Vampire lord typically pulls 6-8 on average wounds per combat against 5 up armor. Also no matter what kind of bus you send into the gravegaurd they are 7 or more wide by 3 deep for horde not to mention the ones swinging into your chaff unit which if its alive at the end of combat will be leaving combat most likely due to testing for a break test.

Also considering the bus and chaff charge on your turn the VC will be counter charging on his turn or setting up redirects to make sure his lord can make way and start stripping ranks by the pair from your bus.

Also wounds kind of matter, your knights would crumble about 4 times faster than the Gg unit. at least the Gg can eat a couple losses to have something else come help if it really came down to it. knights simply cant and they don't have the power to maintain combat after the first turn they charge....

Skullcrushers and 5 warhounds.

Chaos Knight bus and 5 warhounds.

Demon Prince and 5 war hounds.

Executioners and 5 Dark Rider.

Hell, even witches and 5 Dark Riders.

All of those will put the grave guard bus on a double 1 panic.

And yes, in this case, wounds on the unit are irrelevant as there will only be a unit champion in B2B, so you can put 1 wound onto the unit.

If you're expecting the knights to be doing the grinding, then you're playing the army wrong. The knights should be bursting through in a round. It's why you stick the Blender lord, Level 4, Baby Vamp and a couple of wight kings in there.

Grave Guard are not as resilient as you're putting forth. Their frontage is a larger liability than their combat prowess is a bonus.

No Gg are not tough they're easier to resurrect, knights of any kind don't stack up to a vampire. and 5 chaff are not going to hold him for long, also anything with armor is going to get romped by str 6 dude, 45 points a chaos knight who in the right mind is sending that I to a horde of str 6 killing blow? executioners don't have the volume of attacks to rip through that many Gg. witches are broken as sin and an unfair comparison in any regard lol if you are front to front with them your doing it wrong anyways let's be honest. I grant you the first round of combat will. not go to the vamps they are going to eat the first round of casualties but who cares bring the dead back and you win the war of attrition Every time. Also who's testing panic on. double ones? undead are ITP and unbreakable/unstable....

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 rocksteadygreeny wrote:
What kind of super bus and unstoppable chaff are you sending in that are going to crumble a vamp lord and what's left of 40 Gg? and I don't think you've played much VC if you think that a chaff unit isn't going to take more than 5 wounds from the vamp lord, red fury dude he gets an attack after each unsaved wound, my Vampire lord typically pulls 6-8 on average wounds per combat against 5 up armor. Also no matter what kind of bus you send into the gravegaurd they are 7 or more wide by 3 deep for horde not to mention the ones swinging into your chaff unit which if its alive at the end of combat will be leaving combat most likely due to testing for a break test.

Also considering the bus and chaff charge on your turn the VC will be counter charging on his turn or setting up redirects to make sure his lord can make way and start stripping ranks by the pair from your bus.

Also wounds kind of matter, your knights would crumble about 4 times faster than the Gg unit. at least the Gg can eat a couple losses to have something else come help if it really came down to it. knights simply cant and they don't have the power to maintain combat after the first turn they charge....

All of those will put the grave guard bus on a double 1 panic.

Right there is where you can see that you don't play VC and shouldn't be giving out list revisions unless you actually play them or even know the basics about the army.

 Ustrello wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 rocksteadygreeny wrote:
What kind of super bus and unstoppable chaff are you sending in that are going to crumble a vamp lord and what's left of 40 Gg? and I don't think you've played much VC if you think that a chaff unit isn't going to take more than 5 wounds from the vamp lord, red fury dude he gets an attack after each unsaved wound, my Vampire lord typically pulls 6-8 on average wounds per combat against 5 up armor. Also no matter what kind of bus you send into the gravegaurd they are 7 or more wide by 3 deep for horde not to mention the ones swinging into your chaff unit which if its alive at the end of combat will be leaving combat most likely due to testing for a break test.

Also considering the bus and chaff charge on your turn the VC will be counter charging on his turn or setting up redirects to make sure his lord can make way and start stripping ranks by the pair from your bus.

Also wounds kind of matter, your knights would crumble about 4 times faster than the Gg unit. at least the Gg can eat a couple losses to have something else come help if it really came down to it. knights simply cant and they don't have the power to maintain combat after the first turn they charge....

All of those will put the grave guard bus on a double 1 panic.

Right there is where you can see that you don't play VC and shouldn't be giving out list revisions unless you actually play them or even know the basics about the army.

I know the book off by heart. I did mis-speak, but you do take break checks as per normal, until the flee, whereupon you lose models.

The point still stands. Grave Guard multiply losses. They are far more fragile. This makes the characters more vulnerable.

ok well since this is coming down to insults I'm done trying to argue. it infantry versus cavalry take your pick. I have VC and do quite well with them thank you.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 rocksteadygreeny wrote:
What kind of super bus and unstoppable chaff are you sending in that are going to crumble a vamp lord and what's left of 40 Gg? and I don't think you've played much VC if you think that a chaff unit isn't going to take more than 5 wounds from the vamp lord, red fury dude he gets an attack after each unsaved wound, my Vampire lord typically pulls 6-8 on average wounds per combat against 5 up armor. Also no matter what kind of bus you send into the gravegaurd they are 7 or more wide by 3 deep for horde not to mention the ones swinging into your chaff unit which if its alive at the end of combat will be leaving combat most likely due to testing for a break test.

Also considering the bus and chaff charge on your turn the VC will be counter charging on his turn or setting up redirects to make sure his lord can make way and start stripping ranks by the pair from your bus.

Also wounds kind of matter, your knights would crumble about 4 times faster than the Gg unit. at least the Gg can eat a couple losses to have something else come help if it really came down to it. knights simply cant and they don't have the power to maintain combat after the first turn they charge....

All of those will put the grave guard bus on a double 1 panic.

Right there is where you can see that you don't play VC and shouldn't be giving out list revisions unless you actually play them or even know the basics about the army.

I know the book off by heart. I did mis-speak, but you do take break checks as per normal, until the flee, whereupon you lose models.

The point still stands. Grave Guard multiply losses. They are far more fragile. This makes the characters more vulnerable.

If you know the book by heart you shouldn't be forgetting the biggest core principle of the army. Also You do not take break checks its a combat res vs combat res lose x models by how much you lose by, another core mechanic. Otherwise I am done arguing with you because you really don't know what you are talking about. Good luck OP on your games and sorry for the small derail.

 Ustrello wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 rocksteadygreeny wrote:
What kind of super bus and unstoppable chaff are you sending in that are going to crumble a vamp lord and what's left of 40 Gg? and I don't think you've played much VC if you think that a chaff unit isn't going to take more than 5 wounds from the vamp lord, red fury dude he gets an attack after each unsaved wound, my Vampire lord typically pulls 6-8 on average wounds per combat against 5 up armor. Also no matter what kind of bus you send into the gravegaurd they are 7 or more wide by 3 deep for horde not to mention the ones swinging into your chaff unit which if its alive at the end of combat will be leaving combat most likely due to testing for a break test.

Also considering the bus and chaff charge on your turn the VC will be counter charging on his turn or setting up redirects to make sure his lord can make way and start stripping ranks by the pair from your bus.

Also wounds kind of matter, your knights would crumble about 4 times faster than the Gg unit. at least the Gg can eat a couple losses to have something else come help if it really came down to it. knights simply cant and they don't have the power to maintain combat after the first turn they charge....

All of those will put the grave guard bus on a double 1 panic.

Right there is where you can see that you don't play VC and shouldn't be giving out list revisions unless you actually play them or even know the basics about the army.

I know the book off by heart. I did mis-speak, but you do take break checks as per normal, until the flee, whereupon you lose models.

The point still stands. Grave Guard multiply losses. They are far more fragile. This makes the characters more vulnerable.

If you know the book by heart you shouldn't be forgetting the biggest core principle of the army. Also You do not take break checks its a combat res vs combat res lose x models by how much you lose by, another core mechanic. Otherwise I am done arguing with you because you really don't know what you are talking about. Good luck OP on your games and sorry for the small derail.

If you lose the combat, you roll against your leadership, as you do for a break test, to determine your losses. Something which Grave Guard are more susceptible to. This is a fact.

u roll nothing. your thinking demonic instability. undead simply lose models equal to combat resolution difference. regardless that's a discussion for another forum.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Ustrello wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 rocksteadygreeny wrote:
What kind of super bus and unstoppable chaff are you sending in that are going to crumble a vamp lord and what's left of 40 Gg? and I don't think you've played much VC if you think that a chaff unit isn't going to take more than 5 wounds from the vamp lord, red fury dude he gets an attack after each unsaved wound, my Vampire lord typically pulls 6-8 on average wounds per combat against 5 up armor. Also no matter what kind of bus you send into the gravegaurd they are 7 or more wide by 3 deep for horde not to mention the ones swinging into your chaff unit which if its alive at the end of combat will be leaving combat most likely due to testing for a break test.

Also considering the bus and chaff charge on your turn the VC will be counter charging on his turn or setting up redirects to make sure his lord can make way and start stripping ranks by the pair from your bus.

Also wounds kind of matter, your knights would crumble about 4 times faster than the Gg unit. at least the Gg can eat a couple losses to have something else come help if it really came down to it. knights simply cant and they don't have the power to maintain combat after the first turn they charge....

All of those will put the grave guard bus on a double 1 panic.

Right there is where you can see that you don't play VC and shouldn't be giving out list revisions unless you actually play them or even know the basics about the army.

I know the book off by heart. I did mis-speak, but you do take break checks as per normal, until the flee, whereupon you lose models.

The point still stands. Grave Guard multiply losses. They are far more fragile. This makes the characters more vulnerable.

If you know the book by heart you shouldn't be forgetting the biggest core principle of the army. Also You do not take break checks its a combat res vs combat res lose x models by how much you lose by, another core mechanic. Otherwise I am done arguing with you because you really don't know what you are talking about. Good luck OP on your games and sorry for the small derail.

If you lose the combat, you roll against your leadership, as you do for a break test, to determine your losses. Something which Grave Guard are more susceptible to. This is a fact.

You're misremembering, daemonic instability is what you are thinking of, undead have flat out unstable and unbreakable.