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 vipoid wrote:
Is Mephiston confirmed as still having MC stats?

Or, have his stats been reduced a bit now that he's an IC?

The later. 1 less T/S but always knows the spell that gives him S10 and his sword is AP3.

Wonderwolf wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

IOW, they belong in C:SM along with all of the other codex-adherent chapters.

Well, the C:SM is used for Chapters that don't strictly adhere to the Codex (as in, the one from the background). White Scars, Iron Hands, Black Templars... hell, even funky stuff like Legion of the Damned or Deathwatch, which are as far away from the Codex as you can get, backgroundwise.

I don't think there is a correlation between the "in-game" Codex compliance and the publication in a physical book called Codex.

All the chapters you listed actually are codex compliant, except the Black Templars (who are the poster children for non-compliance and deserve their own codex more than any other chapter except possibly Space Wolves). Dark Angels and Blood Angels are also codex compliant. In fact the only truly unique and non-codex unit the Blood Angels have are the Death Company, and if Crusader squads weren't enough to keep their chapter out of C:SM, then the Death Company aren't either.

 Zewrath wrote:
The later. 1 less T/S but always knows the spell that gives him S10 and his sword is AP3.

That sounds reasonable.

Arg, accidentally quoted myself instead of editing.

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
Arg, accidentally quoted myself instead of editing.

Glad I'm not the only one who does this.

 Zewrath wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Is Mephiston confirmed as still having MC stats?

Or, have his stats been reduced a bit now that he's an IC?

The later. 1 less T/S but always knows the spell that gives him S10 and his sword is AP3.

Always thought that T6 was eccessive. His sword really should be AP2 though. I mean its equivalent in strength to a demolisher cannon for Pete's sake.

 vipoid wrote:

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:
Arg, accidentally quoted myself instead of editing.

Glad I'm not the only one who does this.

Me too haha, every time.

BaalSNAFU wrote:
Always thought that T6 was eccessive. His sword really should be AP2 though. I mean its equivalent in strength to a demolisher cannon for Pete's sake.

Honestly, the weapons GW allows AP2 on seem really arbitrary at the moment.

 vipoid wrote:

BaalSNAFU wrote:
Always thought that T6 was eccessive. His sword really should be AP2 though. I mean its equivalent in strength to a demolisher cannon for Pete's sake.

Honestly, the weapons GW allows AP2 on seem really arbitrary at the moment.

Eldars having characters that bitch slaps people with initiative striking power fists for no real reason and then you have a Dark Eldar Archon, with Matt Ward levels of silly OTT Warlord trait that requires him to "swallow thousands of souls each day" in order not wither off and die, swinging with his mighty S3 Huskblade with... AP 3... Yeah, my butt still hurts from that one.

Just thinking about having to take cultists or base CSM in my Death Guard list... *shutters*

I mean.. it's not like I don't already own them anyways.... but still.

 Zewrath wrote:
Eldars having characters that bitch slaps people with initiative striking power fists for no real reason and then you have a Dark Eldar Archon, with Matt Ward levels of silly OTT Warlord trait that requires him to "swallow thousands of souls each day" in order not wither off and die, swinging with his mighty S3 Huskblade with... AP 3... Yeah, my butt still hurts from that one.

Ugh, tell me about it.

But don't worry, the artefact section has us covered with the Djin Blade. It's like an agoniser... without poison... on a S3 model... which it can kill... and it's still AP3... and it costs 30pts.

What's worse is that they also removed the Venom Blade - so we don't even have a cheap weapon for him any more.

BaalSNAFU wrote:
Always thought that T6 was eccessive. His sword really should be AP2 though. I mean its equivalent in strength to a demolisher cannon for Pete's sake.

Not sure about that, having him at AP2 seems a bit too much and would probably make him an auto-pick unless it was also Unwieldy (which we wouldn't want).

OT: Yes, ASM aren't troops. That sucks.
But it's not going to change and we can live with it, first glance makes me believe we are a really, really, really strong CC-army and the Codex looks incredibly strong and awesome.
The way to handle this ASM-thing is to accept, move on and fangirl out over all the other awesomeness.

 Peregrine wrote:


The real reason is GW's trend of making everything bland in 7th edition (except for random tables!). Their thinking seems to be that everything scores in 7th and unbound removes the FOC entirely, so FOC swaps are obsolete and armies no longer need anything but the very basic options in their troops slots. I wouldn't be at all surprised if other codices get a similar treatment as they are updated for 7th. DA players be very afraid!

Nope in fact it will be awesome. My army is the full 5th Battle Comapny under Company Master Balthasar, Librarian Turmiel and Interrogator-Chaplain Seraphicus.

Kinda surprised GW didn't put Jump Pack on Tactical Marines in the first place for BA instead while removing the other choice from the troop slot.

.... a really strong CC army objectively, or in relation to the rather poor showing CC has in an edition almost entirely dedicated to shooting?

I've had very mixed reactions to this release (probably can see from my posts) but after having time to digest the only thing I'm really bothered about is losing Honour Guard. I really liked the concept but there is always gonna be disappointments in new releases.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Just thinking about having to take cultists or base CSM in my Death Guard list... *shutters*

I mean.. it's not like I don't already own them anyways.... but still.

Take Typhus and Plague Zombies. Thematic and awesome

One of my main curiosities is how Dante matches up with the top tier duelists now.

He fits all the criteria (EW, 4 wounds, ap 2 init 6 melee, invuln save.) He's also 5 swings with a mastercraft before charging thanks to 2 ccw's.

Now of course, if he just stands in combat with a couple of the other top-tiers, he's still the underdog by odds, mainly because his invuln is just an iron halo, he's still just t4, won't break FNP on a lot of enemies with his s6/7 attacks, and doesn't have his own FNP.

But I'm interested if anyone can mathhammer how he does in some matchups if you include the following assumptions:
-He's in the detachment for +1 I on the charge. That and he has furious charge base.
-He gets to be the one charging in any matchup where the other guy can't move 12" like he can.
-After every opponent turn, he will hit and run, walk back, shoot with his melta pistol, and assault back in with hammer of wrath and all charge bonuses again. Hit and run will succeed 5/6 of the time.
-There's some messiness with hit and run in that he might accidentally fly to far away to simply walk back and get a HOW hit in, but if he can find a board edge, other unit, or impassable terrain nearby, he can use it to shorten his hit and run distance artificially.

So with that in mind, maybe some mathhammer wizard can check a few matchups?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rippy wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Just thinking about having to take cultists or base CSM in my Death Guard list... *shutters*

I mean.. it's not like I don't already own them anyways.... but still.

Take Typhus and Plague Zombies. Thematic and awesome

I think we're well past the point where we realize that ANY "take this guy and you can do this to your army" ability is on the chopping block. The zombies will probably just be some elite choice or something. Or maybe just not exist.

Kangodo wrote:

BaalSNAFU wrote:
Always thought that T6 was eccessive. His sword really should be AP2 though. I mean its equivalent in strength to a demolisher cannon for Pete's sake.

Not sure about that, having him at AP2 seems a bit too much and would probably make him an auto-pick unless it was also Unwieldy (which we wouldn't want).

OT: Yes, ASM aren't troops. That sucks.
But it's not going to change and we can live with it, first glance makes me believe we are a really, really, really strong CC-army and the Codex looks incredibly strong and awesome.
The way to handle this ASM-thing is to accept, move on and fangirl out over all the other awesomeness.

what awesomeness? tactical marines and assault terminators with alternate bling? YAWWWNNNNNN

i guess ward is better in someways. shudder. at least wards BA were unique.

You should read all the rumours, not just the released models.
The assault is very strong and our Characters look really strong.

kb305 wrote:

Kangodo wrote:

BaalSNAFU wrote:
Always thought that T6 was eccessive. His sword really should be AP2 though. I mean its equivalent in strength to a demolisher cannon for Pete's sake.

Not sure about that, having him at AP2 seems a bit too much and would probably make him an auto-pick unless it was also Unwieldy (which we wouldn't want).

OT: Yes, ASM aren't troops. That sucks.
But it's not going to change and we can live with it, first glance makes me believe we are a really, really, really strong CC-army and the Codex looks incredibly strong and awesome.
The way to handle this ASM-thing is to accept, move on and fangirl out over all the other awesomeness.

what awesomeness? tactical marines and assault terminators with alternate bling? YAWWWNNNNNN

i guess ward is better in someways. shudder. at least wards BA were unique.

Well you could be playing multi CAD BAs with multiple DC and as many librarians as possible to get a ton of 6A thunder hammers on multiple models. When joined by some mantis warriors librarians for divinations it could be rather brutal. And it would work with the RAS everyone has, they could be used as counts as 5man scout squads.

Kangodo wrote:

BaalSNAFU wrote:
Always thought that T6 was eccessive. His sword really should be AP2 though. I mean its equivalent in strength to a demolisher cannon for Pete's sake.

Not sure about that, having him at AP2 seems a bit too much and would probably make him an auto-pick unless it was also Unwieldy (which we wouldn't want).

OT: Yes, ASM aren't troops. That sucks.
But it's not going to change and we can live with it, first glance makes me believe we are a really, really, really strong CC-army and the Codex looks incredibly strong and awesome.
The way to handle this ASM-thing is to accept, move on and fangirl out over all the other awesomeness.

... or like red space marines given roid rage via psykers and warlord traits. Tomato, tomahto.

Does it seriously not bother anybody else that you can't do a DC or DoA army anymore? Or that you can only get a single Sang Priest if you want a halfway decent warlord?

BaalSNAFU wrote:

Does it seriously not bother anybody else that you can't do a DC or DoA army anymore? Or that you can only get a single Sang Priest if you want a halfway decent warlord?

Oh it bothers us plenty. There are several who just can't say anything because they don't want to deal with all the people shouting down at them that their opinions are invalid, and that they're stupid for wanting themed armies other than standard marine ones with tactical marines.

So it's sort of like blame-the-victim from the off topic board, only actually on topic.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
definitely de-warded. No blood-everything. No flying LR.

what flying LR?

So, what to do with 40 death company, Astowrath and 2 death company dreads now?

Seems like a bit of a kick in the nuts.
I would have done some minor converting and made them assaults, but wait, they are no longer troops either.


Seems now if you plan on playing an army for more than a year you have to pick a basic, static army for fear of it changing.


Granted, change is nice at times and extra options are always good.
But for structure, they really shouldnt go moving it about drastically as its a severe pain in the arse.



Im just waiting for them to take warriors out of nids troops choice and throw them in elite for the final wrecked army of mine

Zsolt wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
definitely de-warded. No blood-everything. No flying LR.

what flying LR?

LR's had deep strike in the old codex. It was silly, but it fit into the whole "we <3 deep strike" theme. Thus the flying land raiders.

 Jackal wrote:
So, what to do with 40 death company, Astowrath and 2 death company dreads now?

Seems like a bit of a kick in the nuts.
I would have done some minor converting and made them assaults, but wait, they are no longer troops either.


Seems now if you plan on playing an army for more than a year you have to pick a basic, static army for fear of it changing.


Granted, change is nice at times and extra options are always good.
But for structure, they really shouldnt go moving it about drastically as its a severe pain in the arse.



Im just waiting for them to take warriors out of nids troops choice and throw them in elite for the final wrecked army of mine

At least your army still exists, I played iron warriors and we all saw what happened with the forgotten legions

 Jackal wrote:
So, what to do with 40 death company, Astowrath and 2 death company dreads now?

Seems like a bit of a kick in the nuts.
I would have done some minor converting and made them assaults, but wait, they are no longer troops either.


Seems now if you plan on playing an army for more than a year you have to pick a basic, static army for fear of it changing.


Granted, change is nice at times and extra options are always good.
But for structure, they really shouldnt go moving it about drastically as its a severe pain in the arse.



Im just waiting for them to take warriors out of nids troops choice and throw them in elite for the final wrecked army of mine

BA allied with BA, get 4 5 man squads of scouts. 2 Hq. Fill elites to your hearts content. Good to go. Not preferable, but not the end of the world either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

niv-mizzet wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Just thinking about having to take cultists or base CSM in my Death Guard list... *shutters*

I mean.. it's not like I don't already own them anyways.... but still.

Take Typhus and Plague Zombies. Thematic and awesome

I think we're well past the point where we realize that ANY "take this guy and you can do this to your army" ability is on the chopping block. The zombies will probably just be some elite choice or something. Or maybe just not exist.

Yeah true I didn't think that far in to it. They will probably release a new CSM box and have it so you have to take plain cultists or normal CSM to sell their new CSM boxes.
Hopefully Zombies stay a troops choice.

Or maybe cult troops will just be flat-out Troops choices... a girl can dream.

Anyway, I don't know what all the fuss is about when you can now do quad-melta ignores cover in drop pods with throwaway units. You've basically stolen the best trick out of the Sisters codex, which incidentally is one of the reasons its top-tier despite its niche, so... is a single box of tac marines really that hard a buy?

 Jackal wrote:
So, what to do with 40 death company, Astowrath and 2 death company dreads now?

Unbound. Maybe this is GW's way of forcing the community to accept unbound: make everyone's favorite army no longer legal in the standard FOC so they'll start persuading their opponents to accept unbound as a legitimate option. And then there will be no obstacles to selling the new releases to every customer no matter what army they play!

Not really an issue to be honest. The Ward-dex was a silly fething over the top army book from cover to cover, a lot of which has been cleaned up in this new codex. A lot of BA players have unfortunately been sucked into Matt Ward's stupidity.