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One for the more informed members of the forum here! -

I'm thinking of building a couple of my 28mm German forces around the units involved with Operation Deadstick/Pegasus Bridge. Now my main question (this time) is about the 716th Infantry. My basic level of research and understanding tells me that they spent an awful lot of time on garrison duty in France from 1941 and 1942. Deadstick and everything Normandy obviously happened in '44. My question is would it work to use Early War Germans (ie - http://store.warlordgames.com/collections/german-army/products/blitzkrieg-german-infantry-plastic-boxed-set ) for something like this? - a unit that spent years on garrison duty, and so would have had far less turnover of men and materiel over that time - and would presumably (maybe?) have had a lot of the initial uniforms and equipment in a decent state even in '44?

716 were a 'static' division raised in 1941 and stationed in France from 42 onwards.

There equipment and clothing varied dependant on when the recruits raised, not all would have been insitu for the entire time as the division would be used for replacements and as a posting for replacements on a quiet sector.

Images of the troops give a picture of a variety of clothing and equipment;



Here you can see both early and later pattern tunics, and both Marching boots and short boots.

So really a mix of equipment would be best, perhaps mixing early and late plastics to get a real rag-tag look to the formation. For mine in 20mm I have used a mix of troops in a variety of gear. Some taken prisoner on 6th June were also wearing greatcoats, so you can really mix things up.

Sounds perfect. I have both WLG boxed sets as well as a variety of metals that I can add in. Thanks for the reply!

The photos I have of troops in Static Divisions in 1944 indicate that they wore the later war uniforms - puttees and ankle boots rather than jackboots, and field caps (edit - Big P has provided photos showing the 716 also wore jackboots - maybe not in 1944 though?). They tended to look a bit shabby. I think the early war Germans are far too smartly dressed to represent this kind of unit - the late war minis are more suitable.

Tailgunner makes a good point. the EW plastics may be a little too well turned out in their dress... Also you would want to lose any gas mask cape bags that are on the chest.

Another pic...





I dont know how the plastics come, but could you use EW legs with LW bodies to get a real mixed appreance?


Automatically Appended Next Post:


This may also be of interest;



It was found in a bunker occupied by 716 on D-Day by a British soldier, I suspect its of 716 anti-invasion exercises from 42 (though it could be 43 as one of them could be wearing short boots - the MG No.2 who has an ammo box at his feet) as they seem to all be in early tunics, some are even M36 but most are M40s. The trousers also seem to be steel grey on many, rather than field grey judging by the tonal difference in B&W pics.

I would imagine that not many would be so equipped by 1944 as normal wear and tear would effect dress, not too mention the normal influx and outflux of troops.

Interesting photos. They don't exactly look like supermen, do they...

The strength of the German Army was in its training, organisation, officers and NCOs rather than genetic superiority of Germans at being soldiers.

Real soldiers dont often.

To be fair, it wasnt that bad a division really, there were certainly worse, it certainly fought toe-to-toe in Normandy but took huge losses. I suppose at best it was 'average'. It was withdrawn from the line by 10th July due to its losses.

Its training regime wasnt up to scratch though, as Rommel noted. Its officer cadre, especially at the higher levels seems to have been lacking somewhat too.

It also had Ost Battlions 439 and 642 adopted into it and Ost Battlion 441 seems to have been largely under its control. It was quite an infantry heavy formation.

As a static division though, they were at the bottom of the heap for getting good recruits and new equipment. The static divisions were also used as a dumping ground for those troops with 'stomach and ear' complaints... Basically troops with medical problems who were unsuited to general combat duties, though it has been suggested that the Germans sought to place PTSD or shellshock recovering troops in these units rather than admit they were suffering from severe stress disorders that showed themselves as stomach or other ailments.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The strength of the German Army was in its training, organisation, officers and NCOs rather than genetic superiority of Germans at being soldiers.

It wasn't a serious comment...

Well Tailgunner, we all know that all British Tommies had biceps the size of Bournemouth...

But you are right in your observation. 716th are certainly not the Teutonic ideal that Goebbels propaganda machine loved to trot out.

Im guessing that was your point, not one of suggestion that there really was Ubersoldaten!

Big P wrote:
But you are right in your observation. 716th are certainly not the Teutonic ideal that Goebbels propaganda machine loved to trot out.

You got it. It was also a reference to the way German soldiers are usually depicted in miniature form (which, let's face it, owes more than a little to Dr Goebbels' incredibly successful propaganda). They are certainly rarely depicted as slightly out of shape, undersized and/or middle aged.

Something quite a few professional re-enactment groups do get right around here.

I'd just go with the "Late War" (Should be called Mid-Late war germans, but w/e) box. If you want to get into the mixed uniform look you could add a few side caps, paint some collars/shoulderboards dark green or even add a pair of stone grey trousers or two.

The thing is that I've got a couple of EW and also the (MW)/LW boxes, and I don't know that I also want to create an entirely separate German army for EW as well (I'm already doing a separate DAK force, and probably an SS force)

Are the Gas cape pouches (That square bag that goes on the front) a seperate piece? If so, don't glue them on and they're Kosher for late war. If not, well... I'd sell them or put them away for later. After the initial years of the war the Krauts took to wrapping those things around their Gas Mask can.

Yes... The Gas Cape pouch is the little square bag that was originally worn on the chest on the cylinder strap.

After a while they wrapped them around the cylinder or dumped them.

Id use the early war figures to represent Officers and NCOs in 716th as a neat way of marking the longer serving members.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Are the Gas cape pouches (That square bag that goes on the front) a seperate piece? If so, don't glue them on and they're Kosher for late war. If not, well... I'd sell them or put them away for later. After the initial years of the war the Krauts took to wrapping those things around their Gas Mask can.

Unfortunately, these pouches are moulded onto the Warlord 'Blitzkrieg' Germans.

Thats a pain in the behind then...

 Tailgunner wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Are the Gas cape pouches (That square bag that goes on the front) a seperate piece? If so, don't glue them on and they're Kosher for late war. If not, well... I'd sell them or put them away for later. After the initial years of the war the Krauts took to wrapping those things around their Gas Mask can.

Unfortunately, these pouches are moulded onto the Warlord 'Blitzkrieg' Germans.

Yeah, they're a no go for later war. I don't think I've seen any pictures of Germans wearing those things after Barbarossa on the front of their tunic. Sell the minis or store them for later.