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Like the Eldar in 5th.

Necrons are ace in casual mid competitive. SM is passable without taking g bike cheese as long as you stick to other SM players.

Eldar are unenjoyable no matter who or how you play against.

I really don't understand why people think Tau are still overpowered. They were only OP when Eldar were battlebrothers. Now they are middle-of-the-road at best with riptide crutches. When (not if...) riptides get nerfed with a new dex, and they don't get something as viable, they will sink right back to the bottom where we were for many years.

Competitive play forTau has boiled down to can you kill the deathstar/wave serpents in turn 1? If not, you will most likely lose.

You must not have faced a farsight bomb with buffmander and 3 riptides. Basically the whole army is putting out a high volume of AP2 fire, sometimes twin linked, some that ignore cover and LOS and have jump moves so they can stay out of assault range and in cover themselves. My friend has a list like that and I've played several different net lists against it, the only one that wins is serpent spam. Even then, it's barely over a 50% win rate. My drop pod melta list with grav cents hasn't won a single game against that list no matter what mission we run or what type of tactics I use.

 vipoid wrote:
Well, Necrons are in the unfortunate situation of appwaring powerful, because of a handful of units, whilst the rest of the book is in dire need of a boost.

However, if you only take that handful of units, it's a very strong codex indeed.

I'd say most of the book is pretty competitive.

I think I've seen the vast majority of Necron units in competitive lists even in 7E. The only ones that immediately spring to mind that I haven't seen are Flayed Ones, Praetorians, Doomsday Arks, and Monoliths.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Well, Necrons are in the unfortunate situation of appwaring powerful, because of a handful of units, whilst the rest of the book is in dire need of a boost.

However, if you only take that handful of units, it's a very strong codex indeed.

I'd say most of the book is pretty competitive.

I think I've seen the vast majority of Necron units in competitive lists even in 7E. The only ones that immediately spring to mind that I haven't seen are Flayed Ones, Praetorians, Doomsday Arks, and Monoliths.

Are monoliths bad? What makes them so? Is it a case of not being as great as nearly the rest of the codex?
If so, they have fallen far from their "most op unit in the entire game" status from long ago.
I'll admit, our local necron players run either the bakery, or a destroyer heavy list, so I haven't seen it.

I have never heard of the necron codex being anything other than great, outside of flayed ones and praetorians. I don't think the former is terrible in isolation, but it is pretty bad when compared to wraiths.

The Monolith lacks the utility and resiliency it once had (no longer unable to reroll WBB and no more "ignores melta/extra pen" stuff), and it doesn't bring a tremendous amount of firepower to the board.

While it's the hardest Necron vehicle to kill on paper, it lacks Jink and is also the most expensive vehicle.

 D6Damager wrote:
I really don't understand why people think Tau are still overpowered. They were only OP when Eldar were battlebrothers. Now they are middle-of-the-road at best with riptide crutches. When (not if...) riptides get nerfed with a new dex, and they don't get something as viable, they will sink right back to the bottom where we were for many years.

Competitive play forTau has boiled down to can you kill the deathstar/wave serpents in turn 1? If not, you will most likely lose.

Ideally they' d only nerf the Riptide where it needs (price tweaks for some stuff like IA and EWO). Knowing GW however it's going to be Vespid level of useless.

However, also knowing GW they will buff somwthing that doesn't sell well to autoinclude in any list level. My guess/hope is Hammerhead.

 Vaktathi wrote:

I think I've seen the vast majority of Necron units in competitive lists even in 7E. The only ones that immediately spring to mind that I haven't seen are Flayed Ones, Praetorians, Doomsday Arks, and Monoliths.

I'm dubious of Lychguard, Destroyers and C'tan shards being worth their cost.

Akiasura wrote:

Are monoliths bad? What makes them so?

Well, a couple of things:

- The just don't do much. They've lost most of their support abilities and, for their cost, their firepower just isn't impressive.

If you took a Land Raider, removed its ability to transport units and knocked 40pts off its cost, do you think it would be used?

- They're not even especially resilient. The old Monolith was incredibly hard to destroy, the new one isn't. So, it doesn't even have the 'immovable object' status any more.

 vipoid wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

I think I've seen the vast majority of Necron units in competitive lists even in 7E. The only ones that immediately spring to mind that I haven't seen are Flayed Ones, Praetorians, Doomsday Arks, and Monoliths.

I'm dubious of Lychguard, Destroyers and C'tan shards being worth their cost.

Lychguard are not terrible. I think they are better than termies, they just fall short of the amazing destruction that is wraiths. Destroyers are really good however. Fast, durable, reasonably costed with a good gun. Throw a destroyer lord in the front and fly around doing damage. The CCB is better, but in any other list destroyers would get taken. C'tan shards can do some useful stuff, but I'll admit I forgot they were in the codex so you have a point about them being useless.

 vipoid wrote:

Akiasura wrote:

Are monoliths bad? What makes them so?

Well, a couple of things:

- The just don't do much. They've lost most of their support abilities and, for their cost, their firepower just isn't impressive.

If you took a Land Raider, removed its ability to transport units and knocked 40pts off its cost, do you think it would be used?

- They're not even especially resilient. The old Monolith was incredibly hard to destroy, the new one isn't. So, it doesn't even have the 'immovable object' status any more.

Akiasura wrote:

Lychguard are not terrible. I think they are better than termies, they just fall short of the amazing destruction that is wraiths.

I disagree - terminators have delivery mechanisms, and don't have to choose between a good weapon or an invulnerable save.

Akiasura wrote:
Destroyers are really good however. Fast, durable, reasonably costed with a good gun.

Again, I really don't think they're worth 40pts per model. T5 is not especially durable these days, and the gun really isn't great.

Akiasura wrote:

Man the old monolith was annoying. I used a melta heavy list and couldn't touch it at all, thing drove me crazy. If they lost the ability to arrive via deep strike and it's amazing fire power, then I can see why nobody takes it.

Well, it lost the ability to *safely* arrive by deep strike. It used to push models out of the way, now it just dies (and it's a damn big model to find a safe spot for).

I can understand GW removing the melta immunity (it did make it stupidly hard to kill), but I'm annoyed that they've just given it to other units instead - like the SW flier and the Land Raiders in the IA13 book.

 vipoid wrote:

Akiasura wrote:

Lychguard are not terrible. I think they are better than termies, they just fall short of the amazing destruction that is wraiths.

I disagree - terminators have delivery mechanisms, and don't have to choose between a good weapon or an invulnerable save.

We can agree to disagree. I don't feel termies have viable delivery mechanisms, save for chaos termies who are basically overpriced sternguard anyway. Honestly I don't think most termie units are worth it outside of DA and SW, but they are competitive compared to the rest.

 vipoid wrote:

Akiasura wrote:
Destroyers are really good however. Fast, durable, reasonably costed with a good gun.

Again, I really don't think they're worth 40pts per model. T5 is not especially durable these days, and the gun really isn't great.

T5 combined with the gun and speed is what makes them so good. They are really strong at the alpha strike, and a large squad can remove most threats. In the necron codex, sure, there are better units. Put them in the Chaos marine dex and they'd see play.

 vipoid wrote:

Akiasura wrote:

Man the old monolith was annoying. I used a melta heavy list and couldn't touch it at all, thing drove me crazy. If they lost the ability to arrive via deep strike and it's amazing fire power, then I can see why nobody takes it.

Well, it lost the ability to *safely* arrive by deep strike. It used to push models out of the way, now it just dies (and it's a damn big model to find a safe spot for).

I can understand GW removing the melta immunity (it did make it stupidly hard to kill), but I'm annoyed that they've just given it to other units instead - like the SW flier and the Land Raiders in the IA13 book.

That...is very lame. I can see why no one takes them anymore.

I think the blandness comes from such quick releases. I read the Blood Angels dex the other day and I did it in one sitting pretty quickly. I remember when I'd read and reread dex's constantly because they were so well written.

From a rules stand point its fantastic. It looks like the writers are actually communicating so we don't get another ott eldar dex with a no so good csm.

 Grey Knight Janitor wrote:
I think the blandness comes from such quick releases.

I don't think so.

If it was just because of quick releases, then you'd just expect a lack of new, flavourful rules. Instead, a lot of existing flavourful rules are being removed or changed. I find it hard to believe that this is faster than just copying and pasting the current rules.

 Grey Knight Janitor wrote:
From a rules stand point its fantastic. It looks like the writers are actually communicating so we don't get another ott eldar dex with a no so good csm.

The new Archangels Sanguine Wing Formation shoots that theory down.