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Today's GW blog post shows the datasheet of one of the Shield of Baal III Flesh Tearers formations




Also one of the missions

Again with the first turn roll to come on from reserves. I like this trend for the Blood Angels. It allows them to play a similar reserve style army of the previous codex in 5th while making it workable in 7th. I like it.

I don't see how people are disregarding the fact that drop pods don't have the assault special rule and the dreads within said drop pods have to disembark. The BRB says that you can't assault on the turn you disembark unless it's from an assault vehicle. The rule that is listed on that formation says that units that arrive via deep strike can assault but the dread is not arriving via deep strike, it is arriving via a transport.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Drop Pod Assault: Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike
Reserves. At the beginning of your first turn, half your Drop Pods (rounding up)
automatically arrive from Reserve. The arrival of remaining Drop Pods is rolled for normally.

I'm now on the side of dreads being able to assault on the drop.

The line that says "and the units embarked upon them" seals the deal for the Dread being able to Assault. Since the Dread was in Deep Strike Reserve, that means the Formation's rule that units arriving from Deep Strike Reserve can assault applies. In other words, Furioso just got amazing.

Except that the second sentence says that the Drop Pod arrives from reserves. It doesn't say "the drop pod and all the units within". The drop pod is still NOT an assault vehicle. The BRB rules still take precedence in a situation where there is a question.

I can almost see why people would think a dread can deep strike but it doesn't say that "drop pods have the assault rule". That would obviously seal the deal. Maybe they will FAQ it to clear it up.

Warmonger2757 wrote:
I don't see how people are disregarding the fact that drop pods don't have the assault special rule and the dreads within said drop pods have to disembark. The BRB says that you can't assault on the turn you disembark unless it's from an assault vehicle. The rule that is listed on that formation says that units that arrive via deep strike can assault but the dread is not arriving via deep strike, it is arriving via a transport.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Drop Pod Assault: Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike
Reserves. At the beginning of your first turn, half your Drop Pods (rounding up)
automatically arrive from Reserve. The arrival of remaining Drop Pods is rolled for normally.

I'm now on the side of dreads being able to assault on the drop.

The line that says "and the units embarked upon them" seals the deal for the Dread being able to Assault. Since the Dread was in Deep Strike Reserve, that means the Formation's rule that units arriving from Deep Strike Reserve can assault applies. In other words, Furioso just got amazing.

Except that the second sentence says that the Drop Pod arrives from reserves. It doesn't say "the drop pod and all the units within". The drop pod is still NOT an assault vehicle. The BRB rules still take precedence in a situation where there is a question.

I can almost see why people would think a dread can deep strike but it doesn't say that "drop pods have the assault rule". That would obviously seal the deal. Maybe they will FAQ it to clear it up.

Drop pods are still open-topped. Open-topped vehicles are Assault Vehicles.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:


Drop pods are still open-topped. Open-topped vehicles are Assault Vehicles.

Except that the Drop Pod has a special rule, that makes it a "not-Assault"-Vehicle despite being open topped. Just like, inversely, the Land Raider has a special rule that does make it an assault vehicle, despite not being open topped.

Drop pods be open top.


Open top confers the assault vehicle rule as well.

Wonderwolf wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:


Drop pods are still open-topped. Open-topped vehicles are Assault Vehicles.

Except that the Drop Pod has a special rule, that makes it a "not-Assault"-Vehicle despite being open topped. Just like, inversely, the Land Raider has a special rule that does make it an assault vehicle, despite not being open topped.

That rule that makes it not an assault vehicle is no longer there in the Space Wolves and Blood Angel codexes. It remains only in the Dark Angels and regular Space Marine books of 6th edition.

I'm interested to see what the Archangel warlord trait table has to offer. I'm unimpressed with the Blood Angel codex one as the only trait I like is the one that they yoinked from a previously army wide rule (Descent of Angels).

As it stands, I don't plan on using the codex table for random rolls but instead will just default to double traits from strategic instead with the relic. I f I end up using my assault squads then I'll just take Dante along with the formation since it'll have to be a theme of the army. The codex just doesn't support "standard" drop forces without the extra paid DLC microtransactions.

Oh that I wasn't aware of. Yeah looks like Dreads are assaulting out of drop pods.

Warmonger2757 wrote:
Oh that I wasn't aware of. Yeah looks like Dreads are assaulting out of drop pods.

I am quickly losing respect for the "improvements" 7th made over 6th.

Anyone wanna play 5th ed? 4th maybe?

 Orock wrote:

Warmonger2757 wrote:
Oh that I wasn't aware of. Yeah looks like Dreads are assaulting out of drop pods.

I am quickly losing respect for the "improvements" 7th made over 6th.

Anyone wanna play 5th ed? 4th maybe?

Because it costs at least 1020 before the dreads or mandatory hq/troops to assault on turn one you're losing respect for 7th? Curious as to the reasoning you think this is any worse than 1st turn infiltrate assaults or lucius drop pod with blendernoughts.

So wait, Dark Eldar can't assault when they arrive from a webway portal...and don't have the armor to withstand a turn just sitting there in the midst of the enemies' lines....but a walking tank can assault out of a drop pod and wreck face turn one? hmm.


Or did that change in 7th ed too?

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Orock wrote:

Warmonger2757 wrote:
Oh that I wasn't aware of. Yeah looks like Dreads are assaulting out of drop pods.

I am quickly losing respect for the "improvements" 7th made over 6th.

Anyone wanna play 5th ed? 4th maybe?

Because it costs at least 1020 before the dreads or mandatory hq/troops to assault on turn one you're losing respect for 7th? Curious as to the reasoning you think this is any worse than 1st turn infiltrate assaults or lucius drop pod with blendernoughts.

Why wouldn't the tacticals in the formation count towards the mandatory troops if they're a part of the same detachment?

Because a formation is it's own detachment. Meaning that things taken in them do not count toward another detachment, in this case one that requires 2 troops like a the BA Strike Force or Combined Arms.

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Orock wrote:

Warmonger2757 wrote:
Oh that I wasn't aware of. Yeah looks like Dreads are assaulting out of drop pods.

I am quickly losing respect for the "improvements" 7th made over 6th.

Anyone wanna play 5th ed? 4th maybe?

Because it costs at least 1020 before the dreads or mandatory hq/troops to assault on turn one you're losing respect for 7th? Curious as to the reasoning you think this is any worse than 1st turn infiltrate assaults or lucius drop pod with blendernoughts.

Just guessing but...

They've systematically removed every assault from reserves and assault from deep strike in the last two years because "Allowing units into assault without being able to respond is unfun"....then they allow people to deep strike into melee again.

Is it overpowered in this case? Hell no, the Storm Raven tax is just too high.
Is it a violation of their vision for 7th edition? It most certainly is.

Today it's 1000+ points of tax. Next week it's 250, and next year it's back on units in every book. They are proving once again that they cannot stick to their design decisions. We've seen it so many times before too, where they try to change the flavor of things to bring stuff in line...then flip-flop back to craziness.

Or an alternative outlook is that they noticed the trend of gunlines wiping their asses with melee-oriented armies for years (since the start of 6th edition) and this is their attempt to balance things out?

Whether or not something like this formation will actually fix the gap between ranged armies and melee armies remains to be seen (I am not a fan of first-turn assaults myself, despite playing predominantly melee armies), but attempting to fix a perceived problem is a justified break-away from original intentions for a design.

I, for one, welcome our crimson armored assaulting from reserves overlords.

I'd argue 3 stormravens arriving turn 1 isn't a tax flyers are pretty strong especially ones that have decent armor and lots of guns like stormravens. Think about it you can drop around 50 marines and 3 stormravens on their side of the board on the first turn and all those marines can assault first turn.

 Hulksmash wrote:

Wonderwolf wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:


Drop pods are still open-topped. Open-topped vehicles are Assault Vehicles.

Except that the Drop Pod has a special rule, that makes it a "not-Assault"-Vehicle despite being open topped. Just like, inversely, the Land Raider has a special rule that does make it an assault vehicle, despite not being open topped.

That rule that makes it not an assault vehicle is no longer there in the Space Wolves and Blood Angel codexes. It remains only in the Dark Angels and regular Space Marine books of 6th edition.

However, it is in the Core rules:
"Deep Strike"
In that turn’s Assault phase, however, these units cannot charge. This also applies to units
that have disembarked from Transports that arrived by Deep Strike that turn."

edit. nvm, it pays to read entire discussion!

Backfire wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

Wonderwolf wrote:

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:


Drop pods are still open-topped. Open-topped vehicles are Assault Vehicles.

Except that the Drop Pod has a special rule, that makes it a "not-Assault"-Vehicle despite being open topped. Just like, inversely, the Land Raider has a special rule that does make it an assault vehicle, despite not being open topped.

That rule that makes it not an assault vehicle is no longer there in the Space Wolves and Blood Angel codexes. It remains only in the Dark Angels and regular Space Marine books of 6th edition.

However, it is in the Core rules:
"Deep Strike"
In that turn’s Assault phase, however, these units cannot charge. This also applies to units
that have disembarked from Transports that arrived by Deep Strike that turn."

That is overridden by the Formation's rules. It explicitly says so.

crukks wrote:
I'd argue 3 stormravens arriving turn 1 isn't a tax flyers are pretty strong especially ones that have decent armor and lots of guns like stormravens. Think about it you can drop around 50 marines and 3 stormravens on their side of the board on the first turn and all those marines can assault first turn.

Not quite true. The Tacticals in the ravens can't assault on turn 1. They don't have a rule that overrides the no assaulting out of reserves like units arriving from deepstrike do. So you're looking at dropping 20 marines one turn 1, not 50, supported by 3 flyers.

Don't disembark the TAC marines T1, let them stay on the birds while your DC dreads, assault termites and DC jump dudes handle that. T2 hop the marines out and mop up.

Oh yeah that's right, but you can still drop them with skies of fury and have them shoot.

Okay, I'm getting a little confused about what can drop and assault on Turn 1 in conjunction with the Angel's Fury formation, and I think other people are too. I mean, the Fleshtearer's Razorwind formation allows for you to start making Reserve rolls Turn 1, but it doesn't specify that you can assault. It's my understanding so far that Angel's Fury is the only exception to the rule that you cannot assault on the turn you Deep Strike from reserves.

Augur Triangulation for Angel's Fury specifies that a unit can assault on the turn it Deep Strikes from reserves if:
1) It is a friendly unit with the Blood Angels faction
2) It arrives within 12" of at least two models in the formation with teleport homes.

So, this brings up the question - what else in the Blood Angels faction can Deep Strike on Turn 1? The Blood Angel faction thing may prevent it being used with the Razorwind formation if that's considered Fleshtearer's faction - though that'd be kinda pedantic on GW's part. It's kind of academic as you'd really only be able to use them in conjunction for really high point level games, by the general look of Razorwind anyway, though. As far as I can think, the only other thing is Drop Pods - right? That said, with separate Drop Pods in FA these days, you can load them with just about anything - HQ, Terminators, ASM, DC.

As long as you make your reserve roll to bring in your Storm Ravens and place them first, if you bring your Drop Pods in within 12" of two of the Storm Ravens, whatever you have inside, you can assault with - Assault Termies, DC, Dreads, whatever.

Is my logic sound here? Am I understanding this correctly?

 Death By Monkeys wrote:


As long as you make your reserve roll to bring in your Storm Ravens and place them first, if you bring your Drop Pods in within 12" of two of the Storm Ravens, whatever you have inside, you can assault with - Assault Termies, DC, Dreads, whatever.

Is my logic sound here? Am I understanding this correctly?

Correct. Until GW decides to FAQ this, you can have them assaulting out of their drop-pods on turn 1 due to the augur triangulation rule.

 Carnage43 wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:

 Orock wrote:

Warmonger2757 wrote:
Oh that I wasn't aware of. Yeah looks like Dreads are assaulting out of drop pods.

I am quickly losing respect for the "improvements" 7th made over 6th.

Anyone wanna play 5th ed? 4th maybe?

Because it costs at least 1020 before the dreads or mandatory hq/troops to assault on turn one you're losing respect for 7th? Curious as to the reasoning you think this is any worse than 1st turn infiltrate assaults or lucius drop pod with blendernoughts.

Just guessing but...

They've systematically removed every assault from reserves and assault from deep strike in the last two years because "Allowing units into assault without being able to respond is unfun"....then they allow people to deep strike into melee again.

Is it overpowered in this case? Hell no, the Storm Raven tax is just too high.
Is it a violation of their vision for 7th edition? It most certainly is.

Today it's 1000+ points of tax. Next week it's 250, and next year it's back on units in every book. They are proving once again that they cannot stick to their design decisions. We've seen it so many times before too, where they try to change the flavor of things to bring stuff in line...then flip-flop back to craziness.

Exactly this. Which gives me pause for believing all future codex updates will continue to be conservative.

benjak wrote:

 Death By Monkeys wrote:


As long as you make your reserve roll to bring in your Storm Ravens and place them first, if you bring your Drop Pods in within 12" of two of the Storm Ravens, whatever you have inside, you can assault with - Assault Termies, DC, Dreads, whatever.

Is my logic sound here? Am I understanding this correctly?

Correct. Until GW decides to FAQ this, you can have them assaulting out of their drop-pods on turn 1 due to the augur triangulation rule.

How are you bringing anything other than the SR formation in on turn 1?

 plastictrees wrote:

benjak wrote:

 Death By Monkeys wrote:


As long as you make your reserve roll to bring in your Storm Ravens and place them first, if you bring your Drop Pods in within 12" of two of the Storm Ravens, whatever you have inside, you can assault with - Assault Termies, DC, Dreads, whatever.

Is my logic sound here? Am I understanding this correctly?

Correct. Until GW decides to FAQ this, you can have them assaulting out of their drop-pods on turn 1 due to the augur triangulation rule.

How are you bringing anything other than the SR formation in on turn 1?

You can bring in another detachment. Something like the Archangel one. For 1850, you can have the Spearhead formation plus:

Archangel formation
terminator libby,
7-man Vanguard Vets all with melta-bombs, 2 power weapons
Hammernator squad
Furioso in drop-pod that can enter turn 1

 plastictrees wrote:

benjak wrote:

 Death By Monkeys wrote:


As long as you make your reserve roll to bring in your Storm Ravens and place them first, if you bring your Drop Pods in within 12" of two of the Storm Ravens, whatever you have inside, you can assault with - Assault Termies, DC, Dreads, whatever.

Is my logic sound here? Am I understanding this correctly?

Correct. Until GW decides to FAQ this, you can have them assaulting out of their drop-pods on turn 1 due to the augur triangulation rule.

How are you bringing anything other than the SR formation in on turn 1?

Drop Pods doing their drop pod assault. Put some Furiosos inside the drop pods. Profit.

 House Griffith wrote:
Drop Pods doing their drop pod assault. Put some Furiosos inside the drop pods. Profit.

Furiosos, Assault Terminators, DC, VV, ASM - whatever you want, man. If it's in a Drop Pod and is good for assaulting you can profit on this. Doesn't have to be just Furiosos.