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BlaxicanX wrote: Or an alternative outlook is that they noticed the trend of gunlines wiping their asses with melee-oriented armies for years (since the start of 6th edition) and this is their attempt to balance things out?
Whether or not something like this formation will actually fix the gap between ranged armies and melee armies remains to be seen (I am not a fan of first-turn assaults myself, despite playing predominantly melee armies), but attempting to fix a perceived problem is a justified break-away from original intentions for a design.
Why would it need to be balanced?
Why would there ever need to be a "melee army" in a science fiction game with guns? lol
If anything, 6th was a step back in the right direction for 40K.
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
House Griffith wrote: Drop Pods doing their drop pod assault. Put some Furiosos inside the drop pods. Profit.
Furiosos, Assault Terminators, DC, VV, ASM - whatever you want, man. If it's in a Drop Pod and is good for assaulting you can profit on this. Doesn't have to be just Furiosos.
Yeah, but in the case of the Archangel Formation, you are limited to just Sternguards, Vanguards, and Dreadnoughts (Furioso, Standard Issue, or Death Company can all be used here) since you don't have Fast Attack slots to use on a Drop Pod for the Terminators nor can you get ASM. But if you want to run a Baal Strike Force Detachment with the Angel's Fury Formation, you can run all sorts of stuff that can fit in the Drop Pod.
you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.
the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the stern guard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member
Is it just me or is this hilariously OP?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/18 04:49:03
you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.
the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the stern guard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member
Is it just me or is this hilariously OP?
You and I have different thresholds for humor, I guess. This is not funny, this is head shakingly-OP. I will field one of them if it is true, since I would be stupid not to since I love VV(I have exactly zero, this would give me more than enough reason to change that fact) and Sternguards. This would also move a Stormraven from the category of Will Get Eventually to Entering My Credit Card Information As We Speak.
you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.
the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the stern guard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member
Is it just me or is this hilariously OP?
You and I have different thresholds for humor, I guess. This is not funny, this is head shakingly-OP. I will field one of them if it is true, since I would be stupid not to since I love VV(I have exactly zero, this would give me more than enough reason to change that fact) and Sternguards. This would also move a Stormraven from the category of Will Get Eventually to Entering My Credit Card Information As We Speak.
Yeah. I mean, did they get Matt Ward back to write this? Is this GWs way of saying sorry to all the Blood Angel players out there who had to suffer through 6th? If so, they're really overdoing it.
you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.
the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the stern guard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member
Is it just me or is this hilariously OP?
You and I have different thresholds for humor, I guess. This is not funny, this is head shakingly-OP. I will field one of them if it is true, since I would be stupid not to since I love VV(I have exactly zero, this would give me more than enough reason to change that fact) and Sternguards. This would also move a Stormraven from the category of Will Get Eventually to Entering My Credit Card Information As We Speak.
Yeah. I mean, did they get Matt Ward back to write this? Is this GWs way of saying sorry to all the Blood Angel players out there who had to suffer through 6th? If so, they're really overdoing it.
I think it is their way of saying "Buy all those suboptimal things you never wanted before because they are now your key to victory!".
Although now that I think about it, the sternguard will have to come in the stormraven so either they do skies of fury and risk losing a model or two or deploy using the assault ramp on turn 3. So maybe not as OP as i thought? Still, if the rumor is true, with 10 Sternguard, you'll be getting a 100 points worth of combi-meltas/plasmas for free. if you get 2 maxed out Vanguard Vets, your're getting 300 points of power weapons/lighting claws for free.
HalfBlood wrote: I can believe this. They released the necron formations, relics, and warlord traits.
Picture are up on Faeit212.
The relics are very strong same with warlord traits.
Huh, the relics and traits are really cool! Love the God Shackle, allowing us to once more take Toughness 8 C'tan.
Speculating that Crypteks may no longer be part of the royal courts in the upcoming codex considering how the god shackle is listed as for cryptek only, and that last one is listed as available to either crypteks or overlords.
Gods? There are no gods. Merely existences, obstacles to overcome.
"And what if I told you the Wolves tried to bring a Legion to heel once before? What if that Legion sent Russ and his dogs running, too ashamed to write down their defeat in Imperial archives?" - ADB
benjak wrote: Although now that I think about it, the sternguard will have to come in the stormraven so either they do skies of fury and risk losing a model or two or deploy using the assault ramp on turn 3. So maybe not as OP as i thought? Still, if the rumor is true, with 10 Sternguard, you'll be getting a 100 points worth of combi-meltas/plasmas for free. if you get 2 maxed out Vanguard Vets, your're getting 300 points of power weapons/lighting claws for free.
Sternguards can take Drop Pods as a Dedicated Transport. Nothing is stopping them from doing so. The biggest problem here will be scrounging up enough combi-weapons to adequately field them. The VVs getting free Power Weapons or Lightning Claws is going to DRASTICALLY reduce their cost, to the point where they will actually be good to take.
benjak wrote: Although now that I think about it, the sternguard will have to come in the stormraven so either they do skies of fury and risk losing a model or two or deploy using the assault ramp on turn 3. So maybe not as OP as i thought? Still, if the rumor is true, with 10 Sternguard, you'll be getting a 100 points worth of combi-meltas/plasmas for free. if you get 2 maxed out Vanguard Vets, your're getting 300 points of power weapons/lighting claws for free.
Sternguards can take Drop Pods as a Dedicated Transport. Nothing is stopping them from doing so. The biggest problem here will be scrounging up enough combi-weapons to adequately field them. The VVs getting free Power Weapons or Lightning Claws is going to DRASTICALLY reduce their cost, to the point where they will actually be good to take.
I'm assuming that formation special rules will require the sternguard to be on the storm raven when it comes in (similar to the spearhead formation requiring tacs to be on the ravens).
benjak wrote: Although now that I think about it, the sternguard will have to come in the stormraven so either they do skies of fury and risk losing a model or two or deploy using the assault ramp on turn 3. So maybe not as OP as i thought? Still, if the rumor is true, with 10 Sternguard, you'll be getting a 100 points worth of combi-meltas/plasmas for free. if you get 2 maxed out Vanguard Vets, your're getting 300 points of power weapons/lighting claws for free.
Sternguards can take Drop Pods as a Dedicated Transport. Nothing is stopping them from doing so. The biggest problem here will be scrounging up enough combi-weapons to adequately field them. The VVs getting free Power Weapons or Lightning Claws is going to DRASTICALLY reduce their cost, to the point where they will actually be good to take.
I'm assuming that formation special rules will require the sternguard to be on the storm raven when it comes in (similar to the spearhead formation requiring tacs to be on the ravens).
That is certainly possible. Which would kinda suck. Though you will save some points on a Drop Pod if that is the case.
BoomWolf wrote: OK, I see people here writing about the "drop pod and assault on same turn" combo, yet I don't really get it.
Can anyone mention just what formation allows that and HOW does it do (quote of the rules preferable)
Becase of my understanding, the tacticals got the teleport homers-not the stormravens themselves.
So you at the very least have to disembark first.
It's the Angel's Fury Spearhead Force
Special Rules:
Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserves within 12" of at least two models from this Formation equipped with a teleport homer, then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.
Note that it doesn't say anything about the model(s) with the teleport homers needing to be on the battlefield at the start of the turn. Formation-specific rule overrides original rules for homers.
Area of effect wargear can work inside vehicles as seen under the rules for embarking which state that you measure from the hull when determining range.
BA drop-pods are open-topped and omit the rule that prohibits assaulting on the turn that it deepstrikes like normal codex marine drop-pods. So have a drop-pod or 2 enter on the 1st turn and as long as you're within range of at least 2 teleport homers you can now assault
This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2014/12/18 07:39:48
Here's all the stuff PascalNZ from B&C posted so far about the BA stuff in SoB: Exterminatus:
hey guys just got the new stuff, I'll put up some stuff soon as I can
1. the angels fury spearhead forces as mad as everyone thinks, there are no hidden restrictions on what can come from deep strike reserve. what ever arrives does not scatter and can assault if within 12 inches of two teleport homers [models with them and a model with an effect that is embarked measures the effect from the hull soo good stuff], doesn't have to be a terminator etc etc
there are rules for detachments and formations for the archangels as well as a warlord chart and 3 relics. also rules for the blooded 2nd company and also for flesh tearers
warlord trait for arch angels
1.fearless
2.warlord gets counter attack
3re rolls failed to hits in a challenge
4 warlord and any unit he's in gets obsec
5 rerolls on failed moral or pinning within 12
6 warlord gets preferred enemy
3 relics
1 meltabomb cost sword for terminator sergeants. any roll to has instant death vs monstrous creatures..ap3
6 meltabomb Banner. acts as company banner but gives the unit with it preferred enemy[mmm yummy on thunder hammers]
1 melta bomb psychic hood. user is not affected by perils of the warp.
a couple of fun formations.
archangles sanguine wing:
2 veteran vanguards[must have packs]
1 sternguard
1 storm raven
you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.
the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the stern guard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member
stern guard must start in the raven
yum
archangels orbital intervention force:
3 of any type of term squad. they must be held in deep strike reserve, they all arrive on one roll and can run then shoot on the turn they arrive.
Arch angels demi company: get stubborn reroll failed reserve rolls and d6 less scatter for everything in the formation. warlord gets to reroll trait
1 captain[can be carl] or a chaplain must be in term armour
2 furiosos
5 squads in any combination. both types of terms VV's or stern
The Archangels:
get stubborn, d6 less scatter, roll for reserves from turn one, you can reroll warlord trait
1captain[can be Karl]
1chaplain[no need for term armour.. could be an oversight]
4 furiosos dreads
10!!!squads of any combination from the VV's sterns or different term types
Last three formations
Blooded demi company:
If primary reroll warlord trait
everyone gets red thirst.
1 captain or chaplain
1 command squad[if captain is chosen]
3 tacs
1 assault
1dev
1 dread
1furioso dread[only if chaplain is chosen
Strike force mortals:
everyone gets crusader
at the start of any fight sub phase death company models from this formation that do not have rampage rule get +1 attack till the end of the phase if they are in a combat with more enemy models than friendly ones. this doesn't work on models that have made a disordered charge
1 chaplain
3 dc squads
2 dc dreads
1 raven gunship
Dante's avenging host:
1 blooded demi company formation
dante
mephiston
1 libby
1 sang priest
1 sang guard unit
3 ravens
you can reroll all failed reserve rolls for units in this formation with the deep strike special rule. in addition units in this formation scatter 1d6 less.
all non vehicle units in this formation have the obsec special rule
rhavien wrote: I have the book in front of me. Slight correction to the above. The psychic hood wielder ignors shadow of the warp, not perils.
The Sanguine Wing detachment is real. All three squads must be 10 guys though. Holy emperor, this is some massive free points!
I would have fielded 10 Sternguards anyway. Again, the biggest drawback to this Detachment is finding the frickin' combi-weapons to give to the Sternguards. This Formation will run you 800 pts or so, which is not all that bad for what you get in return.
So far I'm looking at Angel's Fury with Terminator Squads Gideon (Assault Squad with Banner), Lorenzo (Space Hulk set-up but with Assault Cannon) and Alphaeus and it all comes out to 2000pts with various upgrades... But with so many different ways to field Elite armies... I can't figure out how to keep going forward in other lists. Too much choice. But not enough Obj Sec to be honest. Fury is the only Obj Sec that doesn't hinder what they do.
BoomWolf wrote: OK, I see people here writing about the "drop pod and assault on same turn" combo, yet I don't really get it.
Can anyone mention just what formation allows that and HOW does it do (quote of the rules preferable)
Becase of my understanding, the tacticals got the teleport homers-not the stormravens themselves.
So you at the very least have to disembark first.
It's the Angel's Fury Spearhead Force
Special Rules:
Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserves within 12" of at least two models from this Formation equipped with a teleport homer, then it does not scatter and can charge in the same turn it arrives.
Note that it doesn't say anything about the model(s) with the teleport homers needing to be on the battlefield at the start of the turn. Formation-specific rule overrides original rules for homers.
Area of effect wargear can work inside vehicles as seen under the rules for embarking which state that you measure from the hull when determining range.
BA drop-pods are open-topped and omit the rule that prohibits assaulting on the turn that it deepstrikes like normal codex marine drop-pods. So have a drop-pod or 2 enter on the 1st turn and as long as you're within range of at least 2 teleport homers you can now assault
Isn't the ormation itself starting in reserves though due to the fact they are flyers?
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now.
ok this will be the flesh tears post!..will get some edits going forwards
Relics... awfull.
maybe the melt bomb costing shiel that can't be put on a terminator that grants a 3+ armour save and lets the user ignore poison
or the 2 melta bomb costing poisoned 2+ bolter.
th 3x meltabomb relic that can be taken by any type of dreadnought[except none can take relics.???] it gives extra armour and any Nid bio plasma can at best glance you.
warlord traits
1 hatred for lord and unit
2 lord gets rampage
3warlord and unit gets hammer of wrath
4all Ba faction within 12 inches of lord get crusader
5 lord and unit get rage
6lord has fnp
benefits
reroll warlord trait
if anything in the detachment rolls 10 or higher on a charge they get the rage special rule[like orcs it's just what you roll not how far you actually go]
while the vv's are alive everyone gets to ignore the penalties for disordered charges
everyone gets red thirst[+1 ini on charge]
lysios relief force.
everyone gets crusader
all non vehicle units in this formation that do not have the deep strike special rule or the jump unit type must be embarked upon a transport vehicle which may not be a drop pod. All units in the formation must be placed in reserve. all units arrive at once on a single reserve roll
Gabriel seth
1 tac 1 vv
1 baal pred
1 pred
1 storm raven
the defenders of cathedrum:
everyone gets counter attack and stubborn
1 terminator squad
1 death company squad
2 tac squads
1 ass squad
1 furioso
Strike force razor wind
put lysios relief force and defenders of cathedral together
you can make reserve rolls from turn one and every non vehicle in the formation has fearless within 12inches of gabriel seth
That's it for Flesh tearers in exterminatus .
the exclusive white dwarf formation is
blood rain strike force
1 death company squad
1 VV 1 assault squad
1furioso
1 raven
All models in the formation must either have jump packs or be embarked on the raven
they all get crusader
anything that charges out of the raven gets fleet and rage that turn
everything must be in reserves and it all comes in on a single reserve roll, which gets a free reroll
when a unit arrives from deep strike reserves it gets counter attack and fearless till the start of your next turn.
That's all she wrote on FT
So, those who have lots of Assault Marines can just take that Flesh Tearers detachment and have lots of FA slots with only 1 Troops slot as tax.
I'll just plug this one here from the book, found on FaceBook: (Had it on the Sisters Thread for a while.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/18 12:37:45
DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage.
Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass.
hey guys just got the new stuff, I'll put up some stuff soon as I can
1. the angels fury spearhead forces as mad as everyone thinks, there are no hidden restrictions on what can come from deep strike reserve. what ever arrives does not scatter and can assault if within 12 inches of two teleport homers [models with them and a model with an effect that is embarked measures the effect from the hull soo good stuff], doesn't have to be a terminator etc etc
there are rules for detachments and formations for the archangels as well as a warlord chart and 3 relics. also rules for the blooded 2nd company and also for flesh tearers
warlord trait for arch angels
1.fearless
2.warlord gets counter attack
3re rolls failed to hits in a challenge
4 warlord and any unit he's in gets obsec
5 rerolls on failed moral or pinning within 12
6 warlord gets preferred enemy
3 relics
1 meltabomb cost sword for terminator sergeants. any roll to has instant death vs monstrous creatures..ap3
6 meltabomb Banner. acts as company banner but gives the unit with it preferred enemy[mmm yummy on thunder hammers]
1 melta bomb psychic hood. user is not affected by perils of the warp.
a couple of fun formations.
archangles sanguine wing:
2 veteran vanguards[must have packs]
1 sternguard
1 storm raven
you roll once for the whole formation to come in. it can be rerolled either way.
the VV's get either a lightning claw or power weapon for free on every member!!!!
the stern guard get either a storm bolter or combi weapon free on every member
stern guard must start in the raven
yum
archangels orbital intervention force:
3 of any type of term squad. they must be held in deep strike reserve, they all arrive on one roll and can run then shoot on the turn they arrive.
Arch angels demi company: get stubborn reroll failed reserve rolls and d6 less scatter for everything in the formation. warlord gets to reroll trait
1 captain[can be carl] or a chaplain must be in term armour
2 furiosos
5 squads in any combination. both types of terms VV's or stern
The Archangels:
get stubborn, d6 less scatter, roll for reserves from turn one, you can reroll warlord trait
1captain[can be Karl]
1chaplain[no need for term armour.. could be an oversight]
4 furiosos dreads
10!!!squads of any combination from the VV's sterns or different term types
Last three formations
Blooded demi company:
If primary reroll warlord trait
everyone gets red thirst.
1 captain or chaplain
1 command squad[if captain is chosen]
3 tacs
1 assault
1dev
1 dread
1furioso dread[only if chaplain is chosen
Strike force mortals:
everyone gets crusader
at the start of any fight sub phase death company models from this formation that do not have rampage rule get +1 attack till the end of the phase if they are in a combat with more enemy models than friendly ones. this doesn't work on models that have made a disordered charge
1 chaplain
3 dc squads
2 dc dreads
1 raven gunship
Dante's avenging host:
1 blooded demi company formation
dante
mephiston
1 libby
1 sang priest
1 sang guard unit
3 ravens
you can reroll all failed reserve rolls for units in this formation with the deep strike special rule. in addition units in this formation scatter 1d6 less.
all non vehicle units in this formation have the obsec special rule
So, I was just thinking, the Archangel Orbital Intervention force coupled with Angels Fury...could be wrong but using both of those formations together seems to confer a shooting phase and a run, and then assault phase to those terminators. Am I right in assuming this?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/18 12:40:43
Shadowkeepers (4000 points)
3rd Company (3000 points)
BlackTalos wrote: I'll just plug this one here from the book, found on FaceBook:
(Had it on the Sisters Thread for a while.
Spoiler:
Damn it, yet more awesome Sisters artwork!
It's getting far too difficult to resist this book!
"Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth! These are the truths of this world! Surrender to these truths, you pigs in human clothing!" - Satsuki Kiryuin, Kill la Kill
These formations look pretty baller, I wouldn't mind seeing Marine armies actually using Marines again, and gives some ready made variations for Blood Angels players that were previously better done by other coloured Space Marines.
That being said, I'm still sitting here with my Imperial Guard waiting for some love, anything really.
Therefore, I conclude, Valve should announce Half Life 2: Episode 3.
Frankenberry wrote: So, I was just thinking, the Archangel Orbital Intervention force coupled with Angels Fury...could be wrong but using both of those formations together seems to confer a shooting phase and a run, and then assault phase to those terminators. Am I right in assuming this?
The formation doesn't give you permission to charge after running though.
HalfBlood wrote: I can believe this. They released the necron formations, relics, and warlord traits.
Picture are up on Faeit212.
The relics are very strong same with warlord traits.
Huh, the relics and traits are really cool! Love the God Shackle, allowing us to once more take Toughness 8 C'tan.
Speculating that Crypteks may no longer be part of the royal courts in the upcoming codex considering how the god shackle is listed as for cryptek only, and that last one is listed as available to either crypteks or overlords.
I'm going guess Crypteks go "No Force Org Slot" / "One may be taken per HQ choice", ala Ork Meks.
5250 pts
3850 pts
2500 pts 
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
Shadowkeepers (4000 points)
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted)