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Is it actually a real thing? If so, whats the worst case you've seen it taken to?

Yeah I've seen people extend Leman Russ tank barrels, crawling wrath lords and I've also been accused of it by having my Hammerheads on oval basses but that was just from a disgruntled player.

Had seen some broadsides on about 1.5 inchs of cork.

The base looked cool but it sure was shooting over a wall that they normally wouldn't be able too.

but he never intended it to work that way so it wasn't the biggest of deal.
(actually it wasn't a deal at all.)

I'm sure it happens from time to time, but usually it's just people looking for a reason to complain. I'm sure as heck not getting rid of my RT Rhinos. I don't use them because they're smaller, I use them because they're freaking cool and my army is all Rogue Trader Era stuff, ya know?

It's one of those things I've read horror stories of and seen innumerable jokes made about, but never seen in the flesh. There's talk of prone sniper Wraithlords and Space Marine sergeants with powerfists for legs and stuff like that, but they don't really occur in the wild all that often.

 Brother SRM wrote:
It's one of those things I've read horror stories of and seen innumerable jokes made about, but never seen in the flesh. There's talk of prone sniper Wraithlords and Space Marine sergeants with powerfists for legs and stuff like that, but they don't really occur in the wild all that often.

What is the advantage of powerfist legs exactly? Besides making me laugh so hard, that I make mistakes?

I've never seen it in real life. Only been hearing about this sort of stuff on here. I'm certain it does happen, but I have a feeling it is a heck of a lot less common than we think it is. I'd also have to feel obliged to say that if someone is purposefully modeling for advantage, they are a sad individual.

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
It's one of those things I've read horror stories of and seen innumerable jokes made about, but never seen in the flesh. There's talk of prone sniper Wraithlords and Space Marine sergeants with powerfists for legs and stuff like that, but they don't really occur in the wild all that often.

What is the advantage of powerfist legs exactly? Besides making me laugh so hard, that I make mistakes?

The "hidden powerfist" taken to its logical conclusion It's less of a thing now than it was in 4th/5th what with challenges and all.

 Brother SRM wrote:

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
It's one of those things I've read horror stories of and seen innumerable jokes made about, but never seen in the flesh. There's talk of prone sniper Wraithlords and Space Marine sergeants with powerfists for legs and stuff like that, but they don't really occur in the wild all that often.

What is the advantage of powerfist legs exactly? Besides making me laugh so hard, that I make mistakes?

The "hidden powerfist" taken to its logical conclusion It's less of a thing now than it was in 4th/5th what with challenges and all.

I'm pretty sure that was never a thing. And if your opponent tells yôu his list it's an easily avoided "situation".

 Desubot wrote:
Had seen some broadsides on about 1.5 inchs of cork. The base looked cool but it sure was shooting over a wall that they normally wouldn't be able too.

I've often wondered whether added height on a model is an advantage or not. My thinking is that for every occasion that they have a vantage point due to their extra height, there's another occasion when they're exposed to enemy fire that a "normal" model would be concealed from.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What's the thinking on the sponsons on 2nd ed predators? They can only traverse 90 degrees, whereas the one sold now is 180 degrees. They do have the advantage of having a smaller profile, so I was thinking only allow them 90.

 thegreatchimp wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Had seen some broadsides on about 1.5 inchs of cork. The base looked cool but it sure was shooting over a wall that they normally wouldn't be able too.

I've often wondered whether added height on a model is an advantage or not. My thinking is that for every occasion that they have a vantage point due to their extra height, there's another occasion when they're exposed to enemy fire that a "normal" model would be concealed from.

I'd have to assume it depends on WHAT is being modeled in such a manner, you know? Like if I model a custom Battle Wagon, most people wont tend to complain about its size unless it's TOO big. In a BWs case, being bigger (While Orky) is a huge disadvantage for it. It just makes it easier for your opponent to shoot it up, while doing very little to aid the Wagon in doing its own job.

But if you modeled Broadsides in such a manner, it does swing both ways. They can attack units they might not normally be able too in some situations, but that does also open them up to return fire they could have avoided. Then again, they might face an army that can't handle them very well and thus the advantage is purely on the side of...the Broadsides (Too much SIDES in this post! :p)

Modeling for Advantage can be a wash, or it can be totally lopsided in either yours or your opponents favor in the end. Either way, this grey area could be avoided if people don't get too over zealous in their modeling/basing. (Except Orks because that's what Meks do! And our stuff is terrible anyway )

I do keep hearing the phrase, but I havent ever seen any real example of it "in the wild". I can't really see how it would be a total advantage... usually there would be a downside too?

Brother SRM wrote:It's one of those things I've read horror stories of and seen innumerable jokes made about, but never seen in the flesh. There's talk of prone sniper Wraithlords and Space Marine sergeants with powerfists for legs and stuff like that, but they don't really occur in the wild all that often.

I guess a lying down wraithlord would be harder to get LOS on for shooting... but it would also be less able to get LOS for its own shooting?

Not sure what the advantage of the punch-kicking sergeant would be, but it sounds awesome lol.

docdoom77 wrote:I'm sure it happens from time to time, but usually it's just people looking for a reason to complain. I'm sure as heck not getting rid of my RT Rhinos. I don't use them because they're smaller, I use them because they're freaking cool and my army is all Rogue Trader Era stuff, ya know?

I'd never say using an old model is modelling for advantage. You didn't know that the new models would be bigger when you bought/made it. Unless you only bought them recently on ebay lol, but even then they are totally legitimate models in my mind. Plus oldschool.

Desubot wrote:Had seen some broadsides on about 1.5 inchs of cork.

The base looked cool but it sure was shooting over a wall that they normally wouldn't be able too.

Again, yeh it can look over high walls... but people can also see it over the high wall. Not sure its a net advantage... it'd be the same if you just made the walls slightly lower lol.

Well to be fair it think there was on situation iv heard of where a guy made a BW that had these huge side panels to BLOS on the guys walking behind them.


@Niiru Well it would of meant a turn for the Tau to walk around the piece just to shoot which can be a big deal.

 Desubot wrote:
Well to be fair it think there was on situation iv heard of where a guy made a BW that had these huge side panels to BLOS on the guys walking behind them.


@Niiru Well it would of meant a turn for the Tau to walk around the piece just to shoot which can be a big deal.

Hilarious and kinda Orky, but yeah, no pass on that one :p My thoughts is the model needs to at least try to represent what it's supposed to be. Battlewagons don't have wings or extending walls :p

Most modeling for advantage situations seem like they have exactly as many disadvantages modeled in at the same time. I think it's as much a myth as anything else, where people talk about how a "friend of a cousin's sister's aunt saw something at a game once".

I would never stop using my Rogue Trader rhinos just because they are a tad smaller, no way, no how.

Melevolence wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Well to be fair it think there was on situation iv heard of where a guy made a BW that had these huge side panels to BLOS on the guys walking behind them.


@Niiru Well it would of meant a turn for the Tau to walk around the piece just to shoot which can be a big deal.

Hilarious and kinda Orky, but yeah, no pass on that one :p My thoughts is the model needs to at least try to represent what it's supposed to be. Battlewagons don't have wings or extending walls :p

Looted manta might be the only exception to mobile wall.

If its areal manta.

 Desubot wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Well to be fair it think there was on situation iv heard of where a guy made a BW that had these huge side panels to BLOS on the guys walking behind them.


@Niiru Well it would of meant a turn for the Tau to walk around the piece just to shoot which can be a big deal.

Hilarious and kinda Orky, but yeah, no pass on that one :p My thoughts is the model needs to at least try to represent what it's supposed to be. Battlewagons don't have wings or extending walls :p

Looted manta might be the only exception to mobile wall.

If its areal manta.

*Goes to look up model*'

Isn't the Manta the Tau flier? Or am I thinking of the Skyray thing?

Melevolence wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

Melevolence wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Well to be fair it think there was on situation iv heard of where a guy made a BW that had these huge side panels to BLOS on the guys walking behind them.


@Niiru Well it would of meant a turn for the Tau to walk around the piece just to shoot which can be a big deal.

Hilarious and kinda Orky, but yeah, no pass on that one :p My thoughts is the model needs to at least try to represent what it's supposed to be. Battlewagons don't have wings or extending walls :p

Looted manta might be the only exception to mobile wall.

If its areal manta.

*Goes to look up model*'

Isn't the Manta the Tau flier? Or am I thinking of the Skyray thing?

The Manta is the super huge Forgeworld Tau flier.

The manta is the 2feet by 2feet monstrosity that costs about 2 grand and is 2 grand in game points.

IF some one spends the money to use one as a Battle wagon then i would rather be on there good side.


Christmas coming and all

 Desubot wrote:
The manta is the 2feet by 2feet monstrosity that costs about 2 grand and is 2 grand in game points.

IF some one spends the money to use one as a Battle wagon then i would rather be on there good side.


Christmas coming and all

O.O Dat ding is 'uge! I wants!

 Desubot wrote:
Well to be fair it think there was on situation iv heard of where a guy made a BW that had these huge side panels to BLOS on the guys walking behind them.


@Niiru Well it would of meant a turn for the Tau to walk around the piece just to shoot which can be a big deal.

Wasn't there an old ork rule where a transport could carry as many models that could be piled on top of it, but if any fell off they sustained a wound? So making a huge wide wagon would have been appropriate lol.

I have a feeling it was gorkamorka, but still. Thats the kind of rules orks SHOULD HAVE.

But yeh that is one situation where I can understand why its an advantage. The wagon would be a big target anyway, so maximising its ability to hide stuff is good. The downside would be that the orks behind the wagon also dont have LOS for shooting, but if they are assaulting orks it wouldnt be much of an issue.

Ive had people always try to pull stuff on me for my Heavy weapon teams not having LOS over the wall of an Aegis or a Skyshield, especially with my Steel Legion Heavy Bolters, where the guys are lying on their stomachs. They will say "ooh its got to be eye level on the model" and then i tell them to screw off, and usually I wont play those people again, because ive never made it so you couldnt shoot at my HWT due to their dinky size. I always imagined if the guardsman are by a wall they would just prop that sucker up there and fire away. Skyshields are a bit over sized on the shield walls but we have always played that models have full LOS on anything on top as long as they are not directly underneath the damn thing

 generalchaos34 wrote:
Ive had people always try to pull stuff on me for my Heavy weapon teams not having LOS over the wall of an Aegis or a Skyshield, especially with my Steel Legion Heavy Bolters, where the guys are lying on their stomachs. They will say "ooh its got to be eye level on the model" and then i tell them to screw off, and usually I wont play those people again, because ive never made it so you couldnt shoot at my HWT due to their dinky size. I always imagined if the guardsman are by a wall they would just prop that sucker up there and fire away. Skyshields are a bit over sized on the shield walls but we have always played that models have full LOS on anything on top as long as they are not directly underneath the damn thing

Hmm, I'd say this was a bit of a grey area... I mean, I can understand an opponent being iffy about you shooting over something taller than the model, but only if you then didnt let the weapon team be targetted in return. Especially if the opponent had assumed they were out of sight up until the turn you shoot with them, if you see what I mean.

However, if you said at the start of the game (during deployment for example) "This weapon team is just modelled like this, but it actually has the height of a standard model for firing/being shot" then I can't see anyone having an issue. If that makes sense.

I wouldnt say you were modelling for advantage though, as long as it is played consistently for both giving and receiving fire.

Niiru wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:
Ive had people always try to pull stuff on me for my Heavy weapon teams not having LOS over the wall of an Aegis or a Skyshield, especially with my Steel Legion Heavy Bolters, where the guys are lying on their stomachs. They will say "ooh its got to be eye level on the model" and then i tell them to screw off, and usually I wont play those people again, because ive never made it so you couldnt shoot at my HWT due to their dinky size. I always imagined if the guardsman are by a wall they would just prop that sucker up there and fire away. Skyshields are a bit over sized on the shield walls but we have always played that models have full LOS on anything on top as long as they are not directly underneath the damn thing

Hmm, I'd say this was a bit of a grey area... I mean, I can understand an opponent being iffy about you shooting over something taller than the model, but only if you then didnt let the weapon team be targetted in return. Especially if the opponent had assumed they were out of sight up until the turn you shoot with them, if you see what I mean.

However, if you said at the start of the game (during deployment for example) "This weapon team is just modelled like this, but it actually has the height of a standard model for firing/being shot" then I can't see anyone having an issue. If that makes sense.

I wouldnt say you were modelling for advantage though, as long as it is played consistently for both giving and receiving fire.

Funny thing is its not any sort of advantage, thats how the models were created! The only way to actually use them as they are constructed is to leave them out in the open with no cover whatsoever, which of course makes them utterly useless.

 generalchaos34 wrote:

Funny thing is its not any sort of advantage, thats how the models were created! The only way to actually use them as they are constructed is to leave them out in the open with no cover whatsoever, which of course makes them utterly useless.

Lol oh really? I thought you meant you'd made them more prone lol. I guess the could be placed inside area terrain (like a wood) and still get a cover save while having no LOS problems, but I do see what you mean. Maybe you should model a little periscope onto the base!

That´s why I think true line of sights are useless. Every unit should have a base size and according to this a virtual hight and broadth. Than there would be no reason to argue about stuff like that.

I had some "hovering" tau vehicles that semi-adjusted their height to give an advantage. But you pull that off once and then you can go play yourself instead...

 docdoom77 wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
It's one of those things I've read horror stories of and seen innumerable jokes made about, but never seen in the flesh. There's talk of prone sniper Wraithlords and Space Marine sergeants with powerfists for legs and stuff like that, but they don't really occur in the wild all that often.

What is the advantage of powerfist legs exactly? Besides making me laugh so hard, that I make mistakes?

Powerfist legs are too OP, GW pls nerf

Angry marines with power boots are broken though

The most annoying thing I see is people playing unfinished skimmers and not using the bases. So of course they say "he can see over that wall, he's supposed to be on his skimmer base" but when I'm shooting at them "yea he's completely covered, you can't see him."

 docdoom77 wrote:
I'm sure it happens from time to time, but usually it's just people looking for a reason to complain. I'm sure as heck not getting rid of my RT Rhinos. I don't use them because they're smaller, I use them because they're freaking cool and my army is all Rogue Trader Era stuff, ya know?

Although in 5th edition there was a WAAC player at the local FLGS (who was a nice guy, but his brain was just wired so that any game he played, it was WAAC to the limit) who specifically bought 3rd edition SM Whirlwinds to use as Exorcists. With the old style, smaller rhino hull, parked on a realm of battle hill on a table corner, and a modern rhino parked lengthwise in front of it, the missile launcher had an unobstructed view, but the hull was completely untargetable (unless you were hugging either table edge and could barely see it through the gap). Any game he played always had two of them.