Mosque in Sweden set on fire by arsonist

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**Kilkrazy**

Medium of Death wrote:
Boss I don't mean to sound like Britain has it worse, but by living here it automatically becomes the focus of y points. I don't doubt that other countries have problems. Indeed, Germany has seen large anti-Muslim protests recently. Normal people mixing with skinheads, which I think speaks to the frustration felt by a lot of people about immigration/integration. I've also mentioned Sweden and Calais in France.

I guess my point about the working population is that a lot of them don't have the option to emigrate? I also think that it'd be easier to reduce the numbers of immigrants into the country to try and solve that problem. Like you say, it isn't the be all and end all but it does contribute significantly. It's also something we could get a handle on pretty easily.

...
...

All UK citizens have the right to migrate to any other country in the EU regardless of their level of skills or employment status.

About half the immigrants into the UK are EU citizens who have the same legal rights as UK citizens. This form of immigration cannot be controlled without the UK leaving the EU.

About 80% of the rest of the migrants are "high value" people from countries like China, the Philippines and Norway, who require a visa. These people are granted visas because we need students to enroll at our universities, oil executives to run our oil companies, and nurses to staff our hospitals. We could of course refuse these people visas, but it would be counter productive.

The other 10% of migrants are mostly various types of refugees.

A certain number of immigrants like my wife are foreign nationals granted the right to live in the UK due to bonds of marriage, family, etc. I can tell you from personal experience that the visas granted to such are difficult and expensive to obtain.

**Ensis Ferrae**

Jihadin wrote:
Think quite a few of you all need to spend some time in a Islamic country.
Any of these will do.
Turkey
Iraq
Afghanistan
Kuwait
Egypt
UAE
Saudi
to name a few

For about 2 years of my life "In Shalla" (spelling phonetically) was the bane of my existence

I fething HATE that phrase.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Hordini wrote:
Why do you find it so hard to believe?

Because it is pretty different from what happens here in France. We do have a few Lebanese immigrants that are Christians, but we mostly have lots of North African immigrants or descendant of immigrants that are mostly Muslims, with a few Jew.
Thanks for the link

.

Hordini wrote:
Why should I care what two consenting adult parties use to arbitrate disputes between themselves as long as they aren't doing anything illegal?

Because of the consent part. That one is tricky. Much more trickier than “If she wanted a non-Sharia court, she would have said so“.

Hordini wrote:
Yeah, my knowledge of Arabic is extremely limited, but I could tell just by reading the English quotes that adamsouza posted that the translation he was referring to was absolutely horrible.

My advice when trying to understand some quote from the Quran: use this website. It will allow you to compare a bunch on different translations. Try it on 4:34, it goes from “scourge [your wives]” to “(and last) beat [your wives] (lightly, if it is useful)”, so I am pretty confident they cover a wide range of interpretations, from progressive (I mean, for a religious text

) to conservative.
I can only suggest that everyone in this thread check their quotes against this website before posting them.

**thedarkavenger**

Medium of Death wrote:
It's all very well and good to say that these quotes are bs but they circulate quite frequently.

Do you have any links, are you Muslim yourself?

(Curious rather than accusatory)

Agnostic. But I'm fluent in Arabic, and my mums side of the family are Arabic.

Furthermore, I spent my youth growing up in Lebanon , a muslim country.

**Iron_Captain**

thedarkavenger wrote:
Medium of Death wrote:
It's all very well and good to say that these quotes are bs but they circulate quite frequently.

Do you have any links, are you Muslim yourself?

(Curious rather than accusatory)

Agnostic. But I'm fluent in Arabic, and my mums side of the family are Arabic.

Furthermore, I spent my youth growing up in Lebanon , a muslim country.

Lebanon is only about half muslim though. The other half is christian iirc.

**thedarkavenger**

Iron_Captain wrote:
thedarkavenger wrote:
Medium of Death wrote:
It's all very well and good to say that these quotes are bs but they circulate quite frequently.

Do you have any links, are you Muslim yourself?

(Curious rather than accusatory)

Agnostic. But I'm fluent in Arabic, and my mums side of the family are Arabic.

Furthermore, I spent my youth growing up in Lebanon , a muslim country.

Lebanon is only about half muslim though. The other half is christian iirc.

There's one major Christian City...

**djones520**

thedarkavenger wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
thedarkavenger wrote:
Medium of Death wrote:
It's all very well and good to say that these quotes are bs but they circulate quite frequently.

Do you have any links, are you Muslim yourself?

(Curious rather than accusatory)

Agnostic. But I'm fluent in Arabic, and my mums side of the family are Arabic.

Furthermore, I spent my youth growing up in Lebanon , a muslim country.

Lebanon is only about half muslim though. The other half is christian iirc.

There's one major Christian City...

About 41% Lebanese are Christian. 59% Islamic. That is a very sizeable population for that region of the world.

**Soladrin**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Medium of Death wrote:
Boss I don't mean to sound like Britain has it worse, but by living here it automatically becomes the focus of y points. I don't doubt that other countries have problems. Indeed, Germany has seen large anti-Muslim protests recently. Normal people mixing with skinheads, which I think speaks to the frustration felt by a lot of people about immigration/integration. I've also mentioned Sweden and Calais in France.

I guess my point about the working population is that a lot of them don't have the option to emigrate? I also think that it'd be easier to reduce the numbers of immigrants into the country to try and solve that problem. Like you say, it isn't the be all and end all but it does contribute significantly. It's also something we could get a handle on pretty easily.

...
...

All UK citizens have the right to migrate to any other country in the EU regardless of their level of skills or employment status.

About half the immigrants into the UK are EU citizens who have the same legal rights as UK citizens. This form of immigration cannot be controlled without the UK leaving the EU.

About 80% of the rest of the migrants are "high value" people from countries like China, the Philippines and Norway, who require a visa. These people are granted visas because we need students to enroll at our universities, oil executives to run our oil companies, and nurses to staff our hospitals. We could of course refuse these people visas, but it would be counter productive.

The other 10% of migrants are mostly various types of refugees.

A certain number of immigrants like my wife are foreign nationals granted the right to live in the UK due to bonds of marriage, family, etc. I can tell you from personal experience that the visas granted to such are difficult and expensive to obtain.

Yeah, this is nonsense. Having the rights is fun and all, but working class has no way of paying for the move, nor finding a job to make it happen in the first place. Reality is a bitch about these things.

**Kilkrazy**

How come all these Romanian and Polish working class have the money to pay for a move to the UK, and the UK working class don't have the money to pay for a move to Poland and Romania?

**Jihadin**

Kilkrazy wrote:
How come all these Romanian and Polish working class have the money to pay for a move to the UK, and the UK working class don't have the money to pay for a move to Poland and Romania?

No money for the UK Middle class to move to Poland or Romania. More money to be made in the UK

**daedalus**

Kilkrazy wrote:
How come all these Romanian and Polish working class have the money to pay for a move to the UK, and the UK working class don't have the money to pay for a move to Poland and Romania?

The Romanians and Polish must be taking ALL DER DERBS!

**thedarkavenger**

djones520 wrote:
thedarkavenger wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
thedarkavenger wrote:
Medium of Death wrote:
It's all very well and good to say that these quotes are bs but they circulate quite frequently.

Do you have any links, are you Muslim yourself?

(Curious rather than accusatory)

Agnostic. But I'm fluent in Arabic, and my mums side of the family are Arabic.

Furthermore, I spent my youth growing up in Lebanon , a muslim country.

Lebanon is only about half muslim though. The other half is christian iirc.

There's one major Christian City...

About 41% Lebanese are Christian. 59% Islamic. That is a very sizeable population for that region of the world.

That isn't actually true. There are large numbers of Druze in Lebanon.

**Kilkrazy**

Jihadin wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
How come all these Romanian and Polish working class have the money to pay for a move to the UK, and the UK working class don't have the money to pay for a move to Poland and Romania?

No money for the UK Middle class to move to Poland or Romania. More money to be made in the UK

We are talking about working class, not middle class.

**Tjomball**

The political debate about immigration in sweden is fethed up in far to many ways to mention them all.
But a good beginning is to look to both the far left and far right.
Neither side has contributed positively in any way shape or form for their respective sides..
I can list many incidents where both the left and right have started stupid gak.
And also many downright criminal acts.
Like bombing someones house for instance.
At the present moment in sweden it is virtually impossible to have any form of sensible debate about immigration.
The fronts are to set. And both sides are equally moronic/pigheaded to do anything to change said behaviour..
A good start would be a complete change of leadership on the respective far sides..

**dogma**

Kilkrazy wrote:
How come all these Romanian and Polish working class have the money to pay for a move to the UK, and the UK working class don't have the money to pay for a move to Poland and Romania?

I imagine the language barrier is a more significant issue. English is taught damn near everywhere, Polish and Romanian not so much.

**A Town Called Malus**

dogma wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
How come all these Romanian and Polish working class have the money to pay for a move to the UK, and the UK working class don't have the money to pay for a move to Poland and Romania?

I imagine the language barrier is a more significant issue. English is taught damn near everywhere, Polish and Romanian not so much.

And yet one of the complaints thrown at immigrants is that they don't bother to learn english...

**Jihadin**

Not to mention better money in UK

**dogma**

Jihadin wrote:
Not to mention better money in UK

That's debatable, factoring in cost of living the money may well be better in places like Poland; at least if all other things are held equal. Of course moving from somewhere like the UK to somewhere like Poland involves bringing all of your UK financial baggage with you, and it isn't easy to pay down a GBP debt with PLN.

**Jihadin**

dogma wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
Not to mention better money in UK

That's debatable, factoring in cost of living the money may well be better in places like Poland; at least if all other things are held equal. Of course moving from somewhere like the UK to somewhere like Poland involves bringing all of your UK financial baggage with you, and it isn't easy to pay down a GBP debt with PLN.

True but if their immigrating to UK and sending money home to their relatives..besides I will visit Romania again

**Psienesis**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
How come all these Romanian and Polish working class have the money to pay for a move to the UK, and the UK working class don't have the money to pay for a move to Poland and Romania?

No money for the UK Middle class to move to Poland or Romania. More money to be made in the UK

We are talking about working class, not middle class.

... are you saying that middle-class people don't work? Who the feth do you think is *in* the middle class?

**A Town Called Malus**

Psienesis wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
How come all these Romanian and Polish working class have the money to pay for a move to the UK, and the UK working class don't have the money to pay for a move to Poland and Romania?

No money for the UK Middle class to move to Poland or Romania. More money to be made in the UK

We are talking about working class, not middle class.

... are you saying that middle-class people don't work? Who the feth do you think is *in* the middle class?

No, he's not. There is a wealth difference between middle class and working class, despite what corporations and politicians in the USA like to spin.

For example, a typical "working class job" would be something like labourer or supermarket shop assistant.

**thedarkavenger**

How did we get from Islam, to class debates?

Anyway, The whole working class/middle class thing is obsolete. Communism all the way. Or Totalitarianism, if we have someone capable of it.

**Jihadin**

thedarkavenger wrote:
How did we get from Islam, to class debates?

Anyway, The whole working class/middle class thing is obsolete. Communism all the way. Or Totalitarianism, if we have someone capable of it.

The Stand scenario. I can see it..

**whembly**

Jihadin wrote:
thedarkavenger wrote:
How did we get from Islam, to class debates?

Anyway, The whole working class/middle class thing is obsolete. Communism all the way. Or Totalitarianism, if we have someone capable of it.

The Stand scenario. I can see it..

Who's Randall Flagg?

**thedarkavenger**

Jihadin wrote:
thedarkavenger wrote:
How did we get from Islam, to class debates?

Anyway, The whole working class/middle class thing is obsolete. Communism all the way. Or Totalitarianism, if we have someone capable of it.

The Stand scenario. I can see it..

Preferably without an evil wizard please.

**Antario**

Kilkrazy wrote:
How come all these Romanian and Polish working class have the money to pay for a move to the UK, and the UK working class don't have the money to pay for a move to Poland and Romania?

They don't. A lot of these moves are funded by temporary work agencies or employers who provide housing and legal assistance. These workers are payed above the market wages found in Eastern Europe but below the going (legal) minimum wage. It's simply a form of market arbitrage by employers. In comparison, there is no price advantage for Polish or Romanian firms to hire west European workers.

Hardest hit by the influx of east European workers are (muslim) immigrants and their children from the north Africa and the middle east. They can't compete on price with east Europeans and often lack the language skills to move to service industry jobs with other native displaced workers.

**Psienesis**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
Psienesis wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
Jihadin wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
How come all these Romanian and Polish working class have the money to pay for a move to the UK, and the UK working class don't have the money to pay for a move to Poland and Romania?

No money for the UK Middle class to move to Poland or Romania. More money to be made in the UK

We are talking about working class, not middle class.

... are you saying that middle-class people don't work? Who the feth do you think is *in* the middle class?

No, he's not. There is a wealth difference between middle class and working class, despite what corporations and politicians in the USA like to spin.

For example, a typical "working class job" would be something like labourer or supermarket shop assistant.

There are a *lot* of blue-collar jobs in the US that put the worker quite solidly into the Middle Class. Maybe it's different in the UK, I dunno, but, here, plumbers, carpenters, electricians, masons, and garbage-truck drivers, just to name a few, earn really good money.

**Ensis Ferrae**

Psienesis wrote:

There are a *lot* of blue-collar jobs in the US that put the worker quite solidly into the Middle Class. Maybe it's different in the UK, I dunno, but, here, plumbers, carpenters, electricians, masons, and garbage-truck drivers, just to name a few, earn really good money.

Some of those on that list, and some that you didn't include are becoming "critically short" on workers. The episode of "Undercover Boss" with the CEO of Roto-Rooter's parent company, I recall them talking about having a retire-new in the field hire ratio approaching 2:1 (as in, they are nearly seeing 2 plumbers retire for every one hired to replace them)

I've heard about construction projects grinding to a near halt, or a full halt, because the companies couldn't hire enough welders to get the jobs done.... And that isn't a problem I foresee going away anytime soon, as most welding types that I personally know (who are trained in it, etc) ideally want to work for custom auto shops, motorcycle shops and the like. Most of them aren't really there to get into heavy construction.

**Redcruisair**

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30658482

Sweden protest after three mosque fires in one week

Demonstrators held leaflets saying "Don't touch my mosque" at the 1,000-strong rally outside parliament.

A petrol bomb was thrown at a mosque in Uppsala, eastern Sweden, on Thursday. The building did not catch fire.

In late December a mosque was set ablaze at Esloev in the south, and earlier an arson attack on a mosque in Eskilstuna injured five people.

Anti-racism rallies also took place in the cities of Malmo and Gothenburg on Friday.

In Stockholm Sweden's Culture Minister Alice Bah Kuhnke said the government would launch a national strategy to counter Islamophobia. The idea is to educate people about Islam and curb prejudice, she said.

In a mark of solidarity well-wishers plastered the entrance to the Uppsala mosque with red love hearts after Thursday's attack.

So far the police investigation has not led to any arrests following the arson attacks.

The government has pledged to step up security at places of worship.

Culture Minister Bah Kuhnke told the Stockholm rally that the attacks were "aimed at intimidating and diminishing" people.

"That's why one of the most important things we can do is to not let ourselves be intimidated," AFP news agency quoted her as saying.

Immigration has become a hot topic of debate in Sweden, which accepts more asylum seekers per capita than any other European country.

The anti-immigration Sweden Democrats, who got 13% in elections last September, want a 90% cut in the number of asylum seekers allowed into Sweden. Last month the party nearly brought down the new coalition government, in a protest against its asylum policy.

About 16% of Sweden's population are foreign-born, many of them from war-torn Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria - all Muslim-majority countries.

**Matthew**

Well, from my view that idiot Jimmie Åkesson is the only one worried about islamization.