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Haven't run into this problem myself yet but want to know if there's anything preventing a mob of boyz with a biker indep from running + charging on WAAAGH? I assume, the biker will have to forego the flat-out move?

Well if you mix units like biker boss and boyz they go with speed of the slowest unit. So i think you roll for run with boyz and biker boss goes same as you roll at dice. Somebody in my meta plays it in other way: roll for run move and move turbo boosting units as far as they can but with coherency with unit.
And i see another question here: can charge after run-boosting move (mixed units)? Rules say that you cant charge after turboboost. What do you think the grestest of ork player koooaei?

Well, personally i don't really like the aestetics of biker characters in footslogging blobs. Thus, i don't run any. But it might be a forced measure as i'm seeing more and more s10 barrage lately. And i don't mind some form of a non-bike in a blob. Will probably scratch-build some mek-approved monsrocity to carry my warboss along that could count as bike. Maybe a huge Rokkit Pack as i like stormboyz and have built a few packs out of plastic clay allready. Will mount the guy on a biker base and noone would really mind as long as i keep up with proportions.

But than came upon this dilema. That's a mix of:
Can run + charge
Can't flat-out + charge

So, basically it comes up to: Can a biker indep choose not to flat-out when the whole squad runs and will it still allow the charge?

I thought a model can keep its movement capability as long as it remains in coherency of the unit it has joined, which is why alot of people are runing Warbosses on bikes in green tide formation.

It's not about movement capability. There are no problems with it. The question is about Charge after Run and how it interacts with a biker indep. I've seen biker indeps in greentide but than i'm not actually sure if the runs + charges they're performing are legal per rules.

Ohhh I see the problem now. Yeah does the warboss turbo boasting, causing to loss the ability to charge, affect the entire mob. hmm. Im curios about this to as I was thinking of running a similar list.

this is a tricky one.

Well if you mix units like biker boss and boyz they go with speed of the slowest unit

cant find it in the rulebook, instead its stated that:
every model retains their maximal movement, but have to stay in coherancy.

however the real problem is: can you run AND turboboost with a single unit in a single phase?


1. (unit running)
normally a unit can run. if you have a bike in there it simply doesnt move. but it doesnt prevent the unit from running.
the unit enters "run-mode" and each models that is allowed to run may do so.
altthough... it is stated that units may run, so you could argue that if the whole cant run, no one in the unit can run. because you couldnt delclare a run in the first place.

2. (turboboost)
the other way around is much easier. turboboosting seems to work on a per model base (it doesnt say the unit can do something, each biker or "bikers" do). so theres no problem in declaring a mob of 30 boyz will turboboost. only that the bikers in that unit will actually move. this however prevents the whole unit from charging. because the biker actually counts at having turboboosted and therfore isnt allowed to charge.

3. (running & turboboosting)
hmm this is where it gets really tricky... i cant find any passage in a rulebook that would allow a run and boost move in the same phase. in both cases they do the move instead of running. and in the run segment it is stated that the entire unit counts at having ran. regardless if they moved or not.

4.(running and charging)
on a waagh unit that ran can charge. i dont see anything that would prevent a unit charging after they ran, because a biker is attached to them. the biker cannot run, therefore didnt move, and as a result, could charge in the assault phase.


5. (my suggetion)
if you have turboboosted however, you cannot charge with that model, preventing the whole unit from charging. so instead you:
move the biker up to 12" inches in the movement phase (remaining in coherancy), then run the rest in the shooting phase to keep up with the biker, then declare a charge.

RedNoak wrote:

Mr.T wrote:
Well if you mix units like biker boss and boyz they go with speed of the slowest unit

cant find it in the rulebook,

You won't find it, because it hasn't been a rule for the last 2 editions

Some rules to moving with the slowest speed:

RB wrote:Different Movement Distances Within a Unit

Sometimes, a unit will contain models that move at different speeds. When this is the case, each model can move up to its maximum movement allowance so long as it remains in unit coherency.

and

RB wrote:RUN
At times, warriors may have to redeploy quickly, literally running from cover to cover or simply concentrating on movement and giving up their chance to shoot. In their Shooting phase, units may choose to Run instead of firing. Roll a D6 to determine the maximum Run distance for the entire unit. Models in the unit may then immediately move up to that distance in inches. They may choose not to move after the roll is made, but still count as having Run.
Running movement is not slowed by difficult terrain but models running through dangerous terrain must test as normal. Units that Run in the Shooting phase cannot charge in the following Assault phase.

So two ways:
1. Whole unit is running
2. one model is turboboosting, rest is running
Pick one way.

For me its second and then turboboosting prevents charge.

Mr.T wrote:

So two ways:
1. Whole unit is running
2. one model is turboboosting, rest is running
Pick one way.

For me its second and then turboboosting prevents charge.

first off, running is not the same as turboboosting. they can be both done instead of shooting but are still not the same thing.


so, the questions are:

can a unit run even if a model attached to can not?

if it can, does the bike counted as beeing moved?

can it therfore make a turboboost afterwards? (or beforehands, runnning and turboboosting in the same turn)

EDIT:

like i said before this is tricky, because the "run-rule" talks about units, but the turboboosting about models.

So, there's no correct answer here?

well, RAW is pretty messed up in this case.

i would suggest that you cannot RUN and TURBOBOOST with the same unit though, because both is done by forfeiting your ability to shoot, and therefore can only be done once per unit

you could pick each, but not do both

so run and maybe charge etc
OR
turboboost and maybe jink etc

1. Boyz run, boss turboboosts - can't choose to forego boosting.
1.1 Unit can't charge cause the boss turboboosted and it's not a run move.

2. Boyz run, boss stays in place - can't choose to boost.
2.1 Unit can charge cause there was no turboboosting thus nothing preventing you from charging.

3. Boyz run, boss can choose to boost or not.
3.1 Unit can't charge when the boss chose to turboboost.
3.2 Unit can charge when the boss chose not to turboboost.

So, i guess it's up to homeruling as we can't fnd any determined answer in the brb. I'd like it to be the 3-d option as it feels right. But have nothing on my hands to 100% prove it.

Bikes can't Run. So either the unit can't Run at all, or they can do so and Run with all except the bike.

Nothing suggests the bike would be forced to Turboboost just because some infantry he's joined Run.

This is why I wish GW was a tabletop wargaming company, not a collectable miniatures company. They probably never even saw people putting bike IC's in with non-bike units.

 Mulletdude wrote:
This is why I wish GW was a tabletop wargaming company, not a collectable miniatures company. They probably never even saw people putting bike IC's in with non-bike units.

well, you can't think through every possibility from the start. That's why there are things like Rule clarifications, FAQs and stuff like that. Which GW ain't using still.

Anywayz, here are some quotes.

Run move in general:
"In their Shooting phase, units may choose to Run instead of firing. Roll a D6 to determine the maximum Run distance for the entire unit. Models in the unit may then immediately move up to that distance in inches. They may choose not to move after the roll is made, but still count as having Run".

Turbo-boosting:
"Bikes and Jetbikes cannot Run, but can make a special Turbo-boost move instead of firing in their Shooting phase".

WAAAAGH:
"...all friendly units made up entirely of models with the ’Ere We Go! special rule may charge in the Assault phase even if they made a Run move in the same turn".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The whole unit can move not more than d6 even with turboboost cause "...Models in the unit may then immediately move up to that distance...". But the biker can choose to stay in place or turbo-boost up to this d6 inches as he "...cannot Run, but can make a special Turbo-boost move instead...". If he foregoes boosting, than...here's a problem - he must still count as having run but he can't run - what happens here?

he must still count as having run but he can't run - what happens here?

you do what you always do when you are forced to do something you cannot do. nothing. =)

what happens if you fire a weapon with the pinning special rule at a vehicle?

or better at a MC? he may have to test for pinning, may even count as failed the test but he does absolutly nothing, since he cannot go to ground.

Ok, that means he didn't run and as also he didn't turbo-boosts, the squad can charge afterwards. But if he did turboboost, the squad can't. Seems passable.

yes but he's still beeing count as "runned" though. (he just doesnt move) ...so no shooting with him, 'cause the whole unit must forfeight the right to shoot, to do the run move

at least, thats how i would play it

RedNoak wrote:
yes but he's still beeing count as "runned" though. (he just doesnt move) ...so no shooting with him, 'cause the whole unit must forfeight the right to shoot, to do the run move

at least, thats how i would play it

Oh, yep - forgot bout shooting. I alwayz forget to think about shooting with orkses.

If you have a bike and infantry in the same unit, none of them can move in the Shooting phase.

Bikes can't run, and Units run, not models.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
If you have a bike and infantry in the same unit, none of them can move in the Shooting phase.

Bikes can't run, and Units run, not models.

Turbo-boosting:
"Bikes and Jetbikes cannot Run, but can make a special Turbo-boost move instead of firing in their Shooting phase".

That's pretty much the allowance to boost instead of run.

 koooaei wrote:

Turbo-boosting:
"Bikes and Jetbikes cannot Run, but can make a special Turbo-boost move instead of firing in their Shooting phase".

That's pretty much the allowance to boost instead of run.

No, that's the opposite: "Bikes and Jetbikes cannot Run".

That means they cannot run. End of discussion.

Is it stated anywhere that it will disallow the whole unit to run?

Yes, under Run:

"units may choose to Run".

Units Run, not models. A unit including a Bike cannot Run because Bikes cannot Run.

Where's it? I can't find a place where it states that 1 model that can't run prevents the whole unit from doing it.

Find where it allows models to run anywhere.

You won't. Only units run. When a unit runs, it's models are given allowance to move, but the models themselves aren't running. The unit is.

I'm gonna weigh in on this one.

If an IC on a Bike or Jetbike Joins a Unit, he or she counts as a member of that Unit for all rules purposes. What do the rules have to say on the topic of Running? In other words, can the Unit Run while some of the constituent models do not?

Small Rulebook, Page 38 - Run Section - ""In their Shooting phase, units may choose to Run instead of firing. Roll a D6 to determine the maximum run distance for the entire unit. Models in the unit may then immediately move up to that distance in inches. They may choose not to move after the roll is made, but still count as having Run."

Small Rulebook, Page 63 - Turbo-Boost Section - "Bikes and Jetbikes cannot Run, but can make a special Turbo-boost move instead of firing in their Shooting phase."

So... here is my thought process in the context of a Biker IC joined to an Infantry Unit.

1. Permission is granted such that the Infantry Unit may choose to Run instead of Firing. The Unit is allowed to do so because it is an Infantry Unit. We know it is an Infantry Unit because Infantry is listed under Unit Type on the Unit Entry.
2. The Run Process then starts...
2a. Roll the dice and get a 4. Models in the unit may then immediately move up to that distance in inches.
2b. The attached IC cannot run, but can make a special Turbo-boost move instead. While the rest of the models in the unit move up to 4 inches, the Biker IC moves up to 12 inches.
3. The Run Process completes. The Biker IC counts as having Turbo-boosted. Everyone else in the Unit counts as having Run.

I think, for me, the key word is "instead". I read the rules as Running being selected by a Unit, but Turbo-boosting being selected instead by a Model, i.e. "Bikes and Jetbikes".

 Kriswall wrote:
Everyone else in the Unit counts as having Run.

And this is why what you're doing is against the rules.

Bikes can't run.

You've concocted a situation in which a Bike ran. Could you have avoided this rules-breaking scenario by not running with the unit? Yes, so that is the rules.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Find where it allows models to run anywhere.

You won't. Only units run. When a unit runs, it's models are given allowance to move, but the models themselves aren't running. The unit is.

Can't find anything that disallows it either. Rules for a unit don't cover this.