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Does anyone have it?

Is it useful, or just packed with pictures to say, "wow, I wish I could do that?"

What is actually in there? Is it standard for any miniatures, ie tutorials, step-by-step from prime to wash?

Sorry all, I'm just trying to make sure I have all valuable assets in house before I begin my first painting projects.

And if it is a useless book, are there any more helpful books on painting miniatures for beginners? Thanks all.

In my opinion, no, the book is not worth it.

There is nothing in that book that you couldn't find for free on YouTube, Dakka, hobby blogs, or other websites with a minimal amount of searching... and by minimal amount of searching, I mean going to Google and typing, "how to paint [...]."

GW has actually been figuring that out lately because they have started to offer painting tutorials on their YouTube site, which are surprisingly good. However, they only show the basic studio scheme and only use GW paints, which may or may not be useful.

In short, save the money that book would set you back and invest in something much more useful like a high quality paintbrush or two.

Thank you! And no, I think I have made the decision to use Vallejo Game Color... I've read good things about them, more for the $. etc.

But I'm also gathering, Citadel/GW tools/brushes are over priced due to brand? or do they really deserve such prices?

We're beginning with some armies that don't exactly look like rookie projects, but you want what you want, I suppose.

Nurgle and Imperial Fists, but I know I've seen good tutorials on youtube, just always felt like certain important steps were excluded. I guess I'm more of a book, step-by-step guy. Until I have a good feel for it anyways.

I would vote no also. But I've been at this painting models malarky for some years already. Theres not a great amount in the book I havent seen a hundred guides for in the good ol white dwarf or something like that. - anyone who is old enough to remember wont be interested in paying for that info which was bundled into the mag and such in the past.

If you were 100% new to it, then yeah it would likely show you a thing or two.I got a copy for my nephew (age 11) The dvd is useful to him, the pictures are a bit useful, but reading the book is hoping a bit much it seems.
The new youtube videos GW has been putting out are very good, if only a basic level of painting. Theyre not trying to wow you with masterpieces that will take a decade to immitate, more a simplistic, achievable painting style, which you could realistically pick up quite quickly. Making as much use as possible of the new citadel paint line (theyre trying to sell you paints )

With regard to citadel being overpriced, thats about the sum of it. That said they dont really sell anything of low quality. (...heres a good contest; what is the most shoddy quality, extortionate rippoff product that Citadel actually sell?and why? answers on a postcard please.)

For me its the plastic glue that doesnt actually bond anything ; for me, poly cement is a weld, it melts the 2 parts together, while GW's plastic glue is a crystaline structure that doesnt melt that parts whatsoever. Like superglue but with a dogsh*t bond! Dont buy it. Ever! When the GW staff try and remind you that you need it, laugh loudly in their faces and go buy something that will actually work as advertised.

The thing I was most dissapointed with were the brushes. In my experience they were the most expensive glue brushes I would ever consider purchasing, the things do not come to a point, shoddy quality control on them as I've seen some that looked usable in photo's and vid's
Theyre priced as steep as Rosemary and Co (small family owned brush maker in Yorkshire) price their top ender Kollinsky Sable brushes. Which is a joke on citadels part. (Im also old enough to recall when they had actual high quality brushes for a good price instead of the current tat for a premium price)

For tools, look on ebay, local tool shops, if youve got one perhaps a hobby shop thats not GW for yoru tools and glues.

well this is all very good info for me, sounds like youtube may be my tool of choice it seems.

The only painting I've ever really done is firearms ceramic and duracoating. As for miniatures and ultra-fine detailing, this will be interesting.

And if they do show how to get just "achievable" miniatures, that would be superb, as that's all I'm really going for. Just an army worthy of tabling, and not looking like I was inebriated in the process haha.

I may pick up the book if I can aquire it cheaply and used on ebay...Just won't be purchasing it new, as the rules, codex for our armies, have already run a pretty penny.

What brushes are required? Sizes? What's a decent brand to get the job done? Is it advisable just to head into the local hobby store and pick some up?

Brush sizes... a citadel standard is approximately a size 1 pointed round in artists brushes.

Altho any reputable artists sable brushes will hold a point as good as the citadel fine detail is sposed to all day long, even the big fat ones will. Its just a feature of good brushes.

Anything from 00 (aka 2/0) upto a size 2 might be useful.
0 or a 1 would be the main brush for most people.

My fav is Rosemary and Co, I'm quite an advocate of them, theres even a thread going at the moment where I've been piously recommending them.

These would be their top end.
http://www.rosemaryandco.com/watercolour-brushes/pure-kolinsky-sable/pure-kolinsky-pointed

http://www.rosemaryandco.com/watercolour-brushes/pure-red-sable/pointed-pure-red-sable
These a step down but not much (still far superior to a citadel)

In my opinion, the book is pretty useless...
I have one and i should have invested the money in something else. As mentioned, youtube is a great source of information(the gw channel is quite good or if you are more into airbrushing, you can check out the channel of buypainted). Also you'll find hundreds of tutorials here on dakka.

For the brushes:
Imo winsor&newton brushes are the best. They are expansive, but with good care, they will last long.
If you are looking for cheap brushes, i would suggest some daVincis. I got mine in our local paint/art store for about 3-4 €.
You can also use some gw brushes, but make sure that they have a nice tip, the quality of their brushes varies so i would suggest not to buy them by mailorder

Look to Tutofig and Tale of Painters for a lot of great tutorials online. Once you understand layering, you're good to achieve 90% of effects through simply altering paint consistency.

+1 for Rosemary & Co. Excellent brushes. I own many of theirs and my Winsor and Newton Series 7 brushes aren't even out of their tube because of it.

Ha, with all the help from you fine folk here on dakkadakk, my army may just look decent enough to share pictures of when the time comes.

I will begin my research on these rosemary brushes, I really appreciate all the help from all of you, in my community, there is really no such hobby in miniwargaming that I know of. I would need to cross a state line or two.

The rustic state of wyoming still has men riding horses to bars (and yes even the drive through liqour), and tie-offs for your horse in front of the bank and court house. Pretty sure the mention of WH40K may just get me lynched or stoned in this community haha.

 Orkzwuzmade4rokkn wrote:
Ha, with all the help from you fine folk here on dakkadakk, my army may just look decent enough to share pictures of when the time comes.

I will begin my research on these rosemary brushes, I really appreciate all the help from all of you, in my community, there is really no such hobby in miniwargaming that I know of. I would need to cross a state line or two.

The rustic state of wyoming still has men riding horses to bars (and yes even the drive through liqour), and tie-offs for your horse in front of the bank and court house. Pretty sure the mention of WH40K may just get me lynched or stoned in this community haha.

Any of the kolinksy sable brushes will be just fine: Raphael 8404, Windsor & Newton Series 7, Rosemary & Co. Series 33, and Scharff 3000

Some might be easier to find in the States than others though. You can find Raphael and W&N on dickblick.com and Scharff 300 at Secret Weapon Miniatures.

Thank you!

And, here, where we are located, most shopping is done online. Nearest cities for shopping are roughly 95-100 miles (about 90 minutes summer) away, through dangerous canyon passes to South Dakota (won't be leaving during the winter)

Amazon and ebay have been good to us though.

Do you all recommend the Vallejo Game Colors? or are there better deals that offer the same results?

I am a big fan of W&N S7 brushes, but I don't know if I would recommend them to someone starting out... the are more a precision tool that need a bit of tending to to be worth the investment.

 Orkzwuzmade4rokkn wrote:
Do you all recommend the Vallejo Game Colors? or are there better deals that offer the same results?

Nearly all of the available miniature paints are equal, the only major difference being color and quantity. GW has the highest cost-to-quantity ratio, meaning you get less product for more money... but the paint is of perfectly fine quality. What paint you decided to use should come down to what you are willing to spend and how easy it is to acquire.

Personally, I use Vallejo (Model Air, Game Color, and Model Color), Reaper Master Series, Privateer Press P3, Citadel, and Tamiya.

Honestly- I found the How to Paint stuff from GW quite useful. And it has certainly helped my paint skills a good deal. Each to their own though.

 Orkzwuzmade4rokkn wrote:
Thank you!

And, here, where we are located, most shopping is done online. Nearest cities for shopping are roughly 95-100 miles (about 90 minutes summer) away, through dangerous canyon passes to South Dakota (won't be leaving during the winter)

Amazon and ebay have been good to us though.

Do you all recommend the Vallejo Game Colors? or are there better deals that offer the same results?

I prefer Reaper Master Series Paints to Vallejo. They tend to be more consistent in coverage. For the most part I would stay away from GW because they will most likely switch manufacturers and replace their entire line ... again (they've done it a few times). The following is a list of what I use. Not that I'm an expert or anything but it should give you a base to research.

Washes
- Secret Weapon Miniatures, the entire set (if money is not an issue).
- Citadel, shades are very good
- Army Painter, has a very good versatile line.

Paints
- Reaper Master Series

Metallics
- Vallejo Model Air, these work very well with a brush.

Pigments
- Secret Weapon Miniatures, the entire set (if money is not an issue).

Brushes
- Scharff 3000. really don't need anything smaller than a size 0.
Most other kolinsky sable are very difficult to find and expensive. but don't be afraid to spend $15 -20 for a top quality brush. Also, buy some cheap synthetics for metallics and very rough work.
Master's brush cleaner.

On-line retailer-
the Warstore, good prices, better service, massive inventory.

You Tube tutorials
Girlpainting
buypainted
colour of the gods
awesomepaintjob
orcpainternerd

Good luck, take care, and be well

Money not being an issue, I think I will grab the citadel miniature painting, as I've found a used copy for 5$ (anything that will help)

As for brushes that really helps, I was only planning to pay low dollar for one thinking it would be decent, but from you've all said, I'd be best off spending atleast 15$ a brush (not a problem)

And funny girlpainting was mentioned, as I plan to use her imperial fist painting scheme (looks so epic) or come as close as I can. Even though she sounds terribly boring and much like Mrs Doubtfire 0.o

How hard is it to use the washes? Is there room for error? or is just a substance to glaze over the model and it settles in?

Again thank you all. Extremely helpful. As of two days ago I had no idea how I was going to do a thing haha.

 Orkzwuzmade4rokkn wrote:
Money not being an issue, I think I will grab the citadel miniature painting, as I've found a used copy for 5$ (anything that will help)

As for brushes that really helps, I was only planning to pay low dollar for one thinking it would be decent, but from you've all said, I'd be best off spending atleast 15$ a brush (not a problem)

And funny girlpainting was mentioned, as I plan to use her imperial fist painting scheme (looks so epic) or come as close as I can. Even though she sounds terribly boring and much like Mrs Doubtfire 0.o

How hard is it to use the washes? Is there room for error? or is just a substance to glaze over the model and it settles in?

Again thank you all. Extremely helpful. As of two days ago I had no idea how I was going to do a thing haha.

Yeah, don't skimp on the brushes. Cheap brushes have their uses, but high quality brushes are a game changer. Also, don't use the same brushes for metallics and acrylics. if you do decide on W&N series 7 make sure to get series 7, NOT Miniature series 7.

Depending on what effects you want to achieve acrylic washes can be very easy to medium difficult to use. Washes can be used to smooth transitions between color layers or just slop it on to let it fill in recesses (like girlpainting uses them). GW had a wash named Devlan Mud. It's nickname was Devlan Miracle. It was quick and easy to use and produced amazing results for the time invested to apply it. That wash is the same as Army Painter Strong Tone.

Before investing to heavily into acrylic washes look into oil washes. I've just started using oil washes and they are very easy to use mostly because if you make an error is it super easy to fix. Just search youtube for oil washes to learn more.

Oil Washes? Hmm, would any brand suffice? or like all others, is it in the, "get what you pay for", category?

Basically, while I'm on this terrible christmas vacation (rather be working than being bored out of my sanity) I'm building a shopping list, as my mini's have just only shipped from Memphis, TN

Starting uber basic with a single Tactical Squad of marines.

Still trying to hunt down a recipe of vallejo colors and such for imperial fists, if anyone can find one and post the link! I would be so grateful.

I have to disagree with a bunch of peeps here.

First of all, the video on the DVD starring Duncan Rhodes is the best introductory video out there, bar none. It is far, far superior to the P3 Core Techniques video, which is priced at half of the Citadel book+video (and the P3 has no book).

I agree that there isn't anything groundbreaking in the citadel book. However, if you like to paint citadel models, particularly to codex, this is an easy to follow book with tons of practical examples of citadel models painted to a high standard. Yes, everything is premised on Citadel paints (I mean, what do you expect?), but it also gives insight to the Citadel layering technique, which yields better-than-tabletop results with only modest skill and time.

It falls far short in advanced subjects like weathering, wet blending, airbrushing, and so on. But in fairness, those types of topics are deserving of another book. Also, on fairness, the GW YouTube channel has many Duncan Rhodes videos that add to the instructional.

Finally, one problem with Internet sourced advice is that it often conflicts or gets argumentative, and isn't by one author (thus lacking cohesion). Even if it isn't the best at everything, having one book that is more or less complete and consistent is nice.

So, Talys...you're saying the Citadel would be good just for picking up technique? As I will only be doing Citadel/GW pieces.

I won't be doing anything insane such as weathering or rust, or anything special....well...until I start painting the Nurgle daemons and beasts. Which I will be doing after my IF army.

And can't the Vallejo game colors be used in place of the citadel colors and just follow the tutorials in the book?

My main question about the book is only if it offers step-by-step help in Codex painting, which I will be doing. I just fear of mucking up my army to the point I'll lose all inspiration in the game and give up.

I want to make sure my army is at least something I won't be so embarassed about that I can show up to a hobby shop on WH40K night and say. Meh I'm a beginner, instead of people saying, "Dude...Don't drink and paint."

So In short, again, I just need something super user friendly to help me out. Which I've had a lot of pointers, and videos are good to an extend, but I'm really into having it in front of my in a timeless fashion to refer back to again and again w/out double questioning videos online, and asking myself...well what the math did they just hyper space through? What aren't they telling me? Lol

 Orkzwuzmade4rokkn wrote:
So, Talys...you're saying the Citadel would be good just for picking up technique? As I will only be doing Citadel/GW pieces.

I won't be doing anything insane such as weathering or rust, or anything special....well...until I start painting the Nurgle daemons and beasts. Which I will be doing after my IF army.

And can't the Vallejo game colors be used in place of the citadel colors and just follow the tutorials in the book?

My main question about the book is only if it offers step-by-step help in Codex painting, which I will be doing. I just fear of mucking up my army to the point I'll lose all inspiration in the game and give up.

I want to make sure my army is at least something I won't be so embarassed about that I can show up to a hobby shop on WH40K night and say. Meh I'm a beginner, instead of people saying, "Dude...Don't drink and paint."

So In short, again, I just need something super user friendly to help me out. Which I've had a lot of pointers, and videos are good to an extend, but I'm really into having it in front of my in a timeless fashion to refer back to again and again w/out double questioning videos online, and asking myself...well what the math did they just hyper space through? What aren't they telling me? Lol

Citadel models have a certain style, and their studio models (box art) are painted in a very distinctive aesthetic. If that is stylistically appealing to you, the citadel book and video is a treat guide, in my opinion. Not only are there good tutorials but also very high quality pictures in the step by steps. When I bought the book, I was way past its target skill level, but I still appreciated seeing in big blowups how GW paints muscles, leather, fur, cloth, etc. It also redefined how I dealt with metallic paints.

Previous to buying the book, I just used all citadel paints in the same way. After I gave it a shot, I found I quite like the base / layer system. I still don't paint exactly as they suggest (I almost never just slather a model with a wash, for example -- I paint it quite precisely), but it definitely made me rethink my layering technique (for the better, I think).

Many FLGS have a store copy you can look at. I would suggest a look-see before committing, if you're able.

Sadly, there are no FLGS here in my area, so taking a sneak peak wouldn't be possibly, but I think I've made up my mind to purchase it anyways, it's not going to hurt in anyway.

Especially seeing on how I'm so green to the whole "miniature painting" world

 Orkzwuzmade4rokkn wrote:
Sadly, there are no FLGS here in my area, so taking a sneak peak wouldn't be possibly, but I think I've made up my mind to purchase it anyways, it's not going to hurt in anyway.

Especially seeing on how I'm so green to the whole "miniature painting" world

Cool! Let everyone know what you think of it after

I'll second what everyone else is saying and point you in the direction of the GW and other pro painter youtube tutorials. https://www.youtube.com/user/GamesWorkshopWNT
The guides can be useful though if you're trying to find out the exact colors used for a particular scheme.

Nurgle will be a pretty forgiving rookie scheme in my opinion, as they're meant to look sloppy so you can get away with more mistakes. Imperial Fists on the other hand could be rough, as yellow is a pretty difficult color to work with. I'd recommend priming them in brown, as layering yellow over white or black can get ugly in a hurry.

I use Army Painter colored primer, and GW paints for layering, highlights, and washes, then Army Painter anti-shine varnish.

I shall break the unwritten forum rule and not read the 23 prior posts, only the one of the OP, speak my peace, and run away giggling.

If you're new, or even newish, I think the book is well worth it. It's not "That" expensive, and yes you're able to find a good bit of it for free online, but not if you don't know what to search for in the first place.

If you like the typical style of how citadel miniatures are painted (a basecoat, a shade, a couple of "layer" highlights) then I don't think the Citadel book is a bad one for a new painter. It doesn't teach you how to paint like a pro, it just teaches you simple but solid techniques to create clean looking miniatures.

I would recommend checking out the painting videos GW posts if you're just starting out...

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEaPE4sLDA7s-26V0v6SepDFiznb3y6hx

They may not be perfect and I do have a few small gripes with them, but they do teach a new painter a lot of things and even an experienced painter can be reminded of things.

I think this is a good video for a new painter to check out as well, it can save you a lot of trial and error trying to figure out how to get good solid coats of paint...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9bDoIMCSfk

Citadel's painting tutorials in general are basically a "paint by numbers" sort of system, they don't teach advanced techniques or anything, but they teach you how to paint good solid models that will probably look better than 90% of what you'll encounter at your local club/gaming store.

Thanks Pyeat, pretty sure I'm going to get it, more help can only mean, more help, right?

I wasn't entirely sure if the book was only composed of inspirational art, or if it step-by-step, or what exactly, as I've said, there are no hobby stores for roughly 100 miles of our rustic village.

So i've been looking to the good people of Dakka for as much help as I can gather, my shopping list is a monster at this point haha.

 Orkzwuzmade4rokkn wrote:
Thanks Pyeat, pretty sure I'm going to get it, more help can only mean, more help, right?

I wasn't entirely sure if the book was only composed of inspirational art, or if it step-by-step, or what exactly, as I've said, there are no hobby stores for roughly 100 miles of our rustic village.

So i've been looking to the good people of Dakka for as much help as I can gather, my shopping list is a monster at this point haha.

The book contains mostly tutorial; there's no purely inspirational art -- all the pictures are photos of models, and other than a small number of army shots, all the models relate to the tutorial.

There's a section that explains the basics (preparing model, base coat, layers, washes, drybrush, etc.), and then a section where it details how to use those skills to paint specific Citadel models, but in a way that is sort of generically useful -- like chain mail, or leather, or cloaks, with some detailed how-to's for specific armies from 40k, WHFB, and LoTR. There are some useful pictures in it too, that answer questions you see on forums like Dakka every week -- like bad priming jobs and what causes it.

Took a cheeky snap of a page in the citadel how to paint book;



Its which ever page it fell open too; happened to be tyranids. But the guides all follow this sort of step by step images, with a lil text and some glory shots of the finished project. Doesnt have Imperial Fists in (its Salamanders) But there will be something in there thats yellow for you to follow the layering / shading method of.

While were on the subject of how to paint books, anyone got the how to paint sons of sanguinius book? What kind of level is that teaching too?

I would also say that the book is a good guide for a beginner if you want to paint GW miniatures in GW style. Citadel makes good paint and the system seems quite friendly to beginners. They are more expensive than others though, and I prefer dropper bottles to flip top. But that is a matter of personal taste.

I mostly use Vallejo and some Citadel. You could probably use the guide with other manufacturers paint. You would just have to try to match the colours, because the techique would be the same. It would mean that you would have to practice your eye for colours though and try to disregard the name written on the paint pots.

I would also recommend to get rosemary and co brushes. They are very, very good and the price is extremely good. I would especially recommend them to beginners. I would also pick up some brush cleaner, it saves a lot of money in the long run!

My most important tip would be: Do not buy too small brushes! If you buy decent quality brushes you almost never ever need anything smaller than a no 1 or no 0. I almost only use a no 2 W&N series 7!

If you write your planned shopping list in this thread, most of us would be happy to come with suggestions on what to get!