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I used to play with orks around 2006 or so, recently got back into the game at the start of this year. My main opponent loves to play gunline AM, and I have huge amounts of difficulty winning against him (ie, of the last 10 games, I've won... 1).

The recent codex seems to hamstring Orks a bit when it comes to assault with the new Mob Rule, and I can never get close enough to him to deal enough damage; his Hellhounds roast me before I can even get close, and he uses Armoured Sentinels to tarpit me to oblivion. Then, when he's piecemealed me enough, he sends his squads out from behind their Aegis to grab objectives, and usually tables me.

I normally run something along the lines of this, mostly lower point games;

Warboss
Painboy
Big Mek w/ KFF
Dakkajet
Looted Wagons (functionally useless, I've discovered)
Lootas
20x Sluggas
20x Ard Sluggas
20x Shootas

Usually the core of my army revolves around this, with the odd experimental units here or there. My main questions are listed below;

How can I be more effective with Orks without selling an arm, a leg, both kidneys and my firstborn to pay for it?
Bound or Unbound?
Are ork walkers useful?
I'd heard that with the prevalence of Autocannons and the like, trukks are useless, is this true?
Are Kommandos useful? How should I use them, if so?
Are the ork flyers worth using?
Is it true that Shootas are more effective than Sluggas?
How can I deal with my opponent sniping out my warboss with MO barrage sniping?
Are weirdboys useful?
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Any help offered would be massively appreciated.

what is the point limit?

We mostly play 1500pts, occasionally smaller games when time is an issue

 King Vicious wrote:

How can I be more effective with Orks without selling an arm, a leg, both kidneys and my firstborn to pay for it?
Bound or Unbound?
Are ork walkers useful?
I'd heard that with the prevalence of Autocannons and the like, trukks are useless, is this true?
Are Kommandos useful? How should I use them, if so?
Are the ork flyers worth using?
Is it true that Shootas are more effective than Sluggas?
How can I deal with my opponent sniping out my warboss with MO barrage sniping?
Are weirdboys useful?
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Any help offered would be massively appreciated.

Well, unbound will generally always be easier to make a powerful list.. but playing unbound is considered by most to be "cheesy" or "cheap". The exceptions to this are themed armies, where the actual list is balanced and decent but not over-the-top. Generally speaking I'd say stick to one of the force org charts, Orks now have 3 different ones available to use, and they're all pretty good. Also, unbound is an opponent consent thing, so it would depend on if your opponent wouldn't mind playing against an unbound list.

Ork walkers are cool looking, and fun to use, but are generally considered not very competitive. However one way to run a decent list is using the forgeworld Dread Mob codex. Basically, if you run walkers, you want to run a lot of them, and drown the enemy in armour.

Trukks are weak, but fast. So they are basically the same as they have always been. They are likely to die quickly, but for 30pts each you can get a bunch of your units most of the way across the board turn one, for a turn 2 charge. Any trukks that survive into turn 2 are a bonus, and I guess would be used to blocking LOS or running into people. Trukks arent meant to survive long. They are basically the same as ever.

Kommandos I havent used myself yet, but I hear good things. Cheap, can infiltrate, so you put them somewhere in cover with stealth and they will soak up a bunch of fire if the enemy decided to try and shoot at them. This is fire that would have been aimed at your boyz in trukks. Give them rokkits or something and they could get a turn 1 hit on side-armour if you're lucky. Or so I have been advised, I'm yet to try it.

Ork flyers - no idea. The blitza looks like the best to me, but the dakka used to be the choice people made. It got nerfed a lot though, so hopefully someone else will weigh in on this.

Shoota boyz gain decent (for orks) shooting, in exchange for 1 attack each. This means they can do damage on their way into a fight. Sluggas have more attacks, but they cant do anythign much until they are in a fight, and overwatch will kill a bunch of them before that happens. So all in all, the shootas will end up doing more actual damage. This seems to be the general consensus online anyway. In practise YMMV. I prefer shootas.

MO barrage sniping? No idea about this... doesnt look out sir work on this? KFF and megaarmour usually makes for a pretty hardy warboss. Da lucky stikk is a great thing to give him too. Someone more experienced will hopefully help here.

Weirdboyz... aren't. In my opinion. The powers are pretty good, but you'd need two or three weirdboyz to make decent consistent use of them, and thats all your HQ slots (and then some). If they were free from FOC, like meks are, then I'd love them. At the moment... I miss the wierdboy character that turned enemy characters into squigs. I'm really hoping for a wierdboy supplement.

I have.... no idea what your last line is meant to say... reading it makes me feel like one of us is having a stroke.


Hopefully some of that I said is helpful to you! I'm still learning myself but its stuff I've managed to pick up on the way.







Automatically Appended Next Post:
ok 1500 points...

I'd recommend looking at the FW dread mob list, they have some great Ork units and they are all pretty well balanced.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/d/Dred_Mob.pdf

Junkas are good, they count as elites or dedicated transports for big meks, and are basically what looted wagons should have been. Great upgrade options.

Big Trakks are great gunline tanks, if you want to play orky imperial guard. SupaKannon is a nice pieplate.


Normal codex ork units that seem to do well:

Warbikes (these are pretty damn good, and cheap. Chuck in a painboy on a warbike for even more toughness).

Mek Gunz - Some great options (i like the smasha, but most people rate the Lobba) and are also cheap. 5 in a list isnt a crazy idea. Dont buy the games workshop models though, they are hideously expensive. Make your own.

Lootas are rated well too.

I also like tankbustas and meganobz.

Oh, deffkoptas might be good against guard too, as you can outflank a squad of 1 or 2 of these, and get rokkit hits on side or even rear armour.

MO barrage sniping? No idea about this... doesnt look out sir work on this? KFF and megaarmour usually makes for a pretty hardy warboss. Da lucky stikk is a great thing to give him too. Someone more experienced will hopefully help here.

The Master of Ordnance is a bit unreliable, but whenever a direct hit is scored, I suddenly get a pie-plate's worth of hits all piled onto my warboss. LoS rolls are okay with a smaller number of hits, but usually 'cause I chuck the boss in with a larger mob, there's a lot of hits to resolve, especially since it's from the centre outwards.

I have.... no idea what your last line is meant to say... reading it makes me feel like one of us is having a stroke.

Success!

Mek Gunz - Some great options (i like the smasha, but most people rate the Lobba) and are also cheap. 5 in a list isnt a crazy idea. Dont buy the games workshop models though, they are hideously expensive. Make your own.

How many guns would you recommend per battery to maximise their effectiveness? The lobba seemed quite effective (It helped that I had great luck with the scatters), but it was a hard toss-up between using the smasha guns or kannons.

I also like tankbustas and meganobz.

I like the idea of both of these. If I were to stick a bunch of meganobs in a trukk or BW, how many would you think I'd need to get the job done?

Is it worth sticking Eavy Armour on all my boyz? The Hellhounds definitely ripped me a new one with their AP 4 torrent, absolute nightmare. I definitely need more anti-tank.

Muchas gracias for the advice, my brain is already clanking into motion at the thought of my new options..

Spread your boyz out the full 2" of unit cohesion, to minimise hits from the template... other than that I dont know what to suggest.

As for the rest, well I've not field tested these things myself, but what I have discovered from other people on the internet:

Mek gunz - depends on how many heavy support slots you have free. I think the unit still needs to all fire at the same target, so two squads of 3 is better than one squad of 5 (if that makes sense). As heavy support is a crowded slot, I'd probably suggest that 3 or 5 are good numbers to have.

MANz seem to get run a lot in minimum squads of 3, in trukks. They are a cheap unit and so may not get targetted, but if they get close they are deadly. Battlewagons are fine too, but more expensive.
You need a vehicle for them though. Slow and purposeful makes them slow (obviously) so they would never catch anything.
Bigger squads might work, but the expense would make them a target.

Tankbustas, a small squad in a transport is a deadly thing against armour. Lots of armourbane rokkits.

As far as boyz armour goes:
If they are in a vehicle, then 'eavy armour is useful to avoid them dying when the trukk inevitably explodes. A squad of 10 will only lose 2 (on average) instead of about 6, when their trukk blows up.

If they are footslogging, then you dont have to worry about fitting in to anything, and so its better to use the armour points on more bodies instead. 30 boyz with no armour.

This seems to be the general consensus.

Eavy armor gives AP4 so an AP4 flamer would still tear you up... I'm just getting into orks myself is why I clicked on here.

Thanks for the tips Niiru

Sound advice, thanks for the help! I'll write up a new list tomorrow, see what I can come up with.

 King Vicious wrote:
gunline AM, and I have huge amounts of difficulty winning against him (ie, of the last 10 games, I've won... 1).

Eternal war or Maelstorm missions?

Eternal war or Maelstorm missions?

Mostly Eternal War, but we recently moved on to Maelstrom, 'cause I wanted to force him to move something once in a while.

 King Vicious wrote:

Eternal war or Maelstorm missions?

Mostly Eternal War, but we recently moved on to Maelstrom, 'cause I wanted to force him to move something once in a while.

That's the key. Play to missions. If he goes overly defensive - you're winning on objectives. If he starts moving - you have better chances of catching him up. More tactix involved all in all.

As you have a boss + Painboy + KFF Big mek - all footslogging, i assume, you can do a few things with them.

- Can put them in a battlewagon with some boyz - will need a wagon, however. Might convert some or do stuff like this. It's pretty effective against IG gunlines.
- Can go for a footslogging deathstar. That's easier with the models you currently have.
29 boyz + pk nob + Boss + painboss. Can also toss in a mek as you allready have it. Or go with mek instead of a painboss if the enemy is heavy on s8+ artillery.

Stuff that will be super-useful for you:

- Truckboyz. 1 unit of 'eavy armored choppa boyz with a pk bp nob and probably a slotless mek inside. Take a ram and that's it. The unit clocks around 200 pts - not cheap but from my experience, they're doing good. I run this squad in every game and they're great vs ig. 'eavy armor helps vs explosins, mob rule and flamers. Saves against lazguns and mellee attacks are handy too - but that's not the main thing. Proxy a truck with a looted wagon. Or get one - you're gona do it sooner or later anywayz.

- Big gunz. They're amazing. I'm constantly using them in every game. And they're a must. Cheap, absurdly durable if positioned correctly, accurate with ammo runts.
Lobbas - multipple barrage with rerolls is devastating. It's so good, it's even effective against termies and spawns. Not telling about average guardsmen. You can snipe out commanders, specialists, clear up space for charges whenever needed. s5 also helps vs ig artillery av 10 side artillery. As you'll have problems with them hiding out of los. Guess what, you can still get them with 48' barrage and rerolls only help.
Kustom Mega Kannons - s8 ap2 blasts are alwayz helpful. 36' range is not as great as 48 but now you threaten medium vehicles and deepstriking 2+, 3+ hate them even more than lobbas even though lobbas. They'll also help you out vs MC in other games.
Kannons - cheap rokkit launchers with 36'. Personally i prefer KMK or lobbas but when you have leftover points, 1 Kannon is better than 1 lobba in a separate squad. While 3+ lobbas are better than 3+ kannons due to how multibarrage works. Kannons are also used with trakktors to take some damage off the front if the opponent wants to focus them down - and he will if he has important flyers.
Trakktors - nice AA. Though, i don't use it as i treat flyers as inevitable evil. A matter of preference.
People find Zzaps and Smashas fine too. They're somewhat unreliable but can be devastating if you're lucky. Bubblechukkas are fun because they're the epidome of unreliable

As for your questions:
Bound is generally the way to go as rr warlord traits and obsec/detachment bonuses outweigh the stuff you can bring to unbound with orkses. Especially when you've got all the different models anywayz.

Ork walkers have the problem of being...walkers. Too slow to keep up with mechanised orkses. While AV12 slow mellee-oriented vehicles don't work in footslogging lists cause they're one of the only armored stuff which will draw all the ranged AT of the opponent which would have been wasted otherwise. They're somewhat fine within dread mobs. But you need a hell ton of them. And it's still not an amazing army list.

Trucks can alwayz find a place. They can be hidden and they can use cover going throung terrain with rams quite reliably. Fast only helps.

Kommandoes are not bad. I use min squad of 5 with 2 rokkits. 60 pts for infiltrating guyz with stealth and 2 s8 ap3 shots is good in maelstorm. They might also work with snikrot in a max squad but they're running into different problems of how to get protected from ignore-cover stuff and the randomness of reserve rolls.

Flyers are a matter of preference too. I find ork flyers a bit overcosted. Besides, they're prone to getting delayed. If you're using just one it's not such a big deal. But ~120 pts is a lot of ground stuff for orkses, so, i'd rather get the critical mass on board first and go in for supporting stuff like flyers later. Anywayz, a dakkajet or a blitza bomber are not bad. Not great but definitely not bad. Dakkajet can help you against av10 sides of artillery and chimeras a lot. It can also try to glance the enemy fliers to death. Can hope for 1-2 Stripped hp on average. Backed up by a few lucky shots from lootas or rokkits it's gona work from time to time. While blitza bomber can be used against invisible targets with it's s7 ap2 large blast armorbane bomb.

Shootas vs Sluggas is a matter of preference once again. It was true for our previous codex in 6-7 ed probably other than for truckboyz as truckboyz are almost alwayz better as choppas. But now with the return of the old WAAAGH!, the introduction of 'ere we go, boarding planks (useful on wagons and sometimes even trucks) and the increase of shoota cost, sluggas are not less attractive to say the least.
As a footslogger, i prefer to run a large blob of sluggas with boss + painboss + sometimes a wierdboy/mek as that's the centerpiece squad that's more often than not rushes forward and forgoes shooting to run or for fear of shooting itself out of mellee radius. Besides, shootas have 18' range and 30 footslogging boyz are almost never gonabe in range to shoot all 30.
I also run squads of 10-20 shootaboyz with a bp nob and rokkits. Nobs often go without a pk to save points. Nice for midboard controle and can provide some threat saturation or a tarpit. I prefer shootas cause i think that 20 is an ideal size for a shoota mob due to range and spreadout. Still enough to be somewhat durable, don't lack punch and can still tarpit for a turn or two.

MOO barrage sniping is very luck dependent as he scatters 3d6 and even if he hits, scatters 2d6. Warboss is t5 so, can't be insta-killed by anything below s10. Spread out. Look out. Fnp. You can also use a biker boss with DLS to jink but using a biker indep in a footslogging squad is not ruled out well enough so might cause some issues.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/628445.page
You can also avoid character casualties by placing characters on the edge of your squads.


Wierdboyz are fun. Random though. Can be quite useful when you roll the right powers. If you take one - go for ML2. They're also useful for DTW. more dice and +1 for this rolls vs maledictions and witchfires.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? - no idea what this means, sorry...

Anywayz, from the models you've listed, i can see a ~1000 pts list. Maybe a 1250 with a stretch. And definitely not a 1500 one.

Niiru wrote:
Tankbustas, a small squad in a transport is a deadly thing against armour. Lots of armourbane rokkits.

Armourbane Rokkits!?!
I wish they had Armourbane Rockits... Sadly they don't.

- Can go for a footslogging deathstar. That's easier with the models you currently have.
29 boyz + pk nob + Boss + painboss. Can also toss in a mek as you allready have it. Or go with mek instead of a painboss if the enemy is heavy on s8+ artillery.

So with this, I'd need to do something like ram a couple of trukks into the lines first to give time for the star to catch up, right? Or have smaller footsloggin' squads running alongside while the big one draws all the fire?

- Truckboyz. 1 unit of 'eavy armored choppa boyz with a pk bp nob and probably a slotless mek inside. Take a ram and that's it. The unit clocks around 200 pts - not cheap but from my experience, they're doing good. I run this squad in every game and they're great vs ig. 'eavy armor helps vs explosins, mob rule and flamers. Saves against lazguns and mellee attacks are handy too - but that's not the main thing. Proxy a truck with a looted wagon. Or get one - you're gona do it sooner or later anywayz

Chances are, this single trukk would get focussed down before the mek could do anything to save it. Should I give him killsaws if I used this tactic?.

- Big gunz. They're amazing. I'm constantly using them in every game. And they're a must. Cheap, absurdly durable if positioned correctly, accurate with ammo runts.

In my last game, the big guns performed the best out of all my units. Bargain.

Bound is generally the way to go as rr warlord traits and obsec/detachment bonuses outweigh the stuff you can bring to unbound with orkses. Especially when you've got all the different models anywayz.

So if I took a standard FOC ork list, would adding another detachment with minimum troops to gain another HQ retain ObSec?

MOO barrage sniping is very luck dependent as he scatters 3d6 and even if he hits, scatters 2d6. Warboss is t5 so, can't be insta-killed by anything below s10. Spread out. Look out. Fnp. You can also use a biker boss with DLS to jink but using a biker indep in a footslogging squad is not ruled out well enough so might cause some issues.

In my last game, he got super lucky and managed to take out a kff mek hidden in one of my blobs (as well as taking a chunk out the blob itself), and since i hadn't made them 'ard boys, they just got piecemealed.

Anywayz, from the models you've listed, i can see a ~1000 pts list. Maybe a 1250 with a stretch. And definitely not a 1500 one.

Yeah, I only included the units I always use in that list. I've experimented with a few different units, like the kans, dreads, flyers, looted wagons, and even a squad of nobz with Grotsnik as a missile unit (pretty expensive, and needs heavy cover). I've also had varying levels of success with independent deffkoptas outflanking to do some damage.

 grendel083 wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Tankbustas, a small squad in a transport is a deadly thing against armour. Lots of armourbane rokkits.

Armourbane Rokkits!?!
I wish they had Armourbane Rockits... Sadly they don't.

I dont even know why i wrote this. Something in my mind had armourbane. May have been the blitza. Shouldnt dakka while tired.

 King Vicious wrote:

- Can go for a footslogging deathstar. That's easier with the models you currently have.
29 boyz + pk nob + Boss + painboss. Can also toss in a mek as you allready have it. Or go with mek instead of a painboss if the enemy is heavy on s8+ artillery.

So with this, I'd need to do something like ram a couple of trukks into the lines first to give time for the star to catch up, right? Or have smaller footsloggin' squads running alongside while the big one draws all the fire?

That's a matter of preference. Generally you want to stick to the theme. I only run 1 truck as it doesn't take away from the mass of footsloging boyz on the front. If you're footslogging, you should always have a mass. And 1 truck is easier to hide.

 King Vicious wrote:

- Truckboyz. 1 unit of 'eavy armored choppa boyz with a pk bp nob and probably a slotless mek inside. Take a ram and that's it. The unit clocks around 200 pts - not cheap but from my experience, they're doing good. I run this squad in every game and they're great vs ig. 'eavy armor helps vs explosins, mob rule and flamers. Saves against lazguns and mellee attacks are handy too - but that's not the main thing. Proxy a truck with a looted wagon. Or get one - you're gona do it sooner or later anywayz

Chances are, this single trukk would get focussed down before the mek could do anything to save it. Should I give him killsaws if I used this tactic?.

Once again, a single truck is easy to hide out of los and than roll 24' towards the flank. Or plain reserve it if you feel for it - won't loose too much on 1-st turn. If you hide it - the only thing he can do to stop it is to shoot artillery at the tank - means he's not shooting at boyz or big gunz. If he ignores it, you're 24' closer to him somewhere behind blos or in cover.
And mek's there to die in challenges while nob swings. You don't want to loose a nob to a power axe sarge or powerfist comissar. Being able to fix a truck is just a handy addition - nothing more.

 King Vicious wrote:

- Big gunz. They're amazing. I'm constantly using them in every game. And they're a must. Cheap, absurdly durable if positioned correctly, accurate with ammo runts.

In my last game, the big guns performed the best out of all my units. Bargain.

I use 3-d party ww2 guns and scratch-built ones. It's somewhere around...10-12 times cheaper than GW considering the current rouble-dollar course And they actually look cool provided you add some ork bits and grot gunners.

 King Vicious wrote:

Bound is generally the way to go as rr warlord traits and obsec/detachment bonuses outweigh the stuff you can bring to unbound with orkses. Especially when you've got all the different models anywayz.

So if I took a standard FOC ork list, would adding another detachment with minimum troops to gain another HQ retain ObSec?

Can also go with a horde detachment with 3 HQ and 3 mandatory troops. You loose obsec, however. Get HoW if charge >= 10 inches, however. Not that it matters much

 King Vicious wrote:

MOO barrage sniping is very luck dependent as he scatters 3d6 and even if he hits, scatters 2d6. Warboss is t5 so, can't be insta-killed by anything below s10. Spread out. Look out. Fnp. You can also use a biker boss with DLS to jink but using a biker indep in a footslogging squad is not ruled out well enough so might cause some issues.

In my last game, he got super lucky and managed to take out a kff mek hidden in one of my blobs (as well as taking a chunk out the blob itself), and since i hadn't made them 'ard boys, they just got piecemealed.

That's why i said luck-dependent and not impossible But the odds of hitting directly with MOO are quite slim. That's the regular artillery and wiverns you should e afraid of. That's why spreading and moving characters away as i've listed. Don't forget - you're not playing marines or something. You're playing orkses! You're supposed to die in droves. Just make sure you still have boyz elsewhere to do the job.

Niiru wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Tankbustas, a small squad in a transport is a deadly thing against armour. Lots of armourbane rokkits.

Armourbane Rokkits!?!
I wish they had Armourbane Rockits... Sadly they don't.

I dont even know why i wrote this. Something in my mind had armourbane. May have been the blitza. Shouldnt dakka while tired.

You might have been thinking of their Melta Bombs?
Or thinking of Tank Hunter on their Rokkits?

Kommandos have always saved me in every game so far. I play a mix of trukks and foot mobs, and the kommandos always arrive in the nick of time to chop and burn.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Kommandos have always saved me in every game so far. I play a mix of trukks and foot mobs, and the kommandos always arrive in the nick of time to chop and burn.

You outflank them instead of infiltrating them?

In my Ork lists around 1000-1500 pts ( most of the time this is what I play) I ALWAYS include Meganobs in a truck to dash across the board. They will kill just about anything you put them on. Then get a bit of damage or slow down a 2nd target. I also like a mob of 20 Shoota boys in a wagon. Roving fire platform that put down 40 shots on a target. That many shots is bound to weaken something. I will also use the wagon as a ram or a tank shock to move opponents around. I also like a dakajet with the extra twin linked supa Shoota it is pretty reliable for 7 hits, 4 wounds. At strength 6 it can take down light armored transports. I will sometimes switch out the jet for 3 defcoptas. The outflank usually means you will get a few quality shots on the rear armor of something. Playing the maelstrom missions will also help A LOT against AM armies.

I think that you should really consider battlewagons. If you don't have any, I'd play the looted wagons as battle wagons instead.

Against a gunline, you want to get into cc as soon as possible, while you still have an army left, so speed is essential. Battle wagons, trucks, bikes, storm boyz and full speed ahead.

Kommandos are also fast in that way that they come to the enemy quickly.

The walkers are nice in foot slogging lists if you run lots of them.

Edit: Double post and spelling

Point of order: koptas can't outflank. Warbuggies can, but you will have to do some converting if you want decent models armed with rokkits.

Koptas are good, though. I use a mob of five and they are useful for all sorts. Even a depleted unit is useful for putting pressure on vulnerable areas (e.g. turbo boosting and landing behind a tank), shielding more important units from charges, or sneakily taking objectives while your opponent is concentrating on your more powerful units.

I haven't played against guard yet, but AFAIK they have many, many squads of weak infantry that are no match for your boyz, so perhaps consider taking on several at once with a large boyz mob to avoid getting shot to bits immediately after round 1.

 Krusha wrote:
Point of order: koptas can't outflank. Warbuggies can

Koptas CAN outflank as the have the scout special rule (which amongst its other effects gives them outflank)

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Krusha wrote:
Point of order: koptas can't outflank. Warbuggies can

Koptas CAN outflank as the have the scout special rule (which amongst its other effects gives them outflank)

Yeh, what he said. Scout gives the bonus rule.

I was not aware of this. I thought it was just a bonus move. Now to employ this newfound knowledge to get around my friend's swarms of gaunts and go straight for the big ones...

Hordes big hordes I usually go with 2 squads of 20 shootas x2 big shootas nob boss pole in battle wagons 30 boys no upgrades big mek force feild charging forward war boss eavy armour power claw with 5 nobz eavy armour bosspole waagh banner 2 power klaws 10 kommandos with snikrot 3 squads of 20 gretchin for green shields 10 flash glitz with 3 ammo runts 10 burnas in a trukk and the cherry on the cake 3 mega nobz 1 with 2 kill saws and the other 2 with twin linked shootas with skorchas and finally with them the prophet of gork and mork Gazakull Thrakka!