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Hey Everyone!
My lady and I decided to dive into Infinity after watching the game come along for the last year or so and I need some help deciding which faction to start. I have been debating if the Icestorm box is the way to go since it gives terrain and two starter armies.

As far as my lady, she is not too picky with armies. That is my realm.

For me, it is two armies that have caught my eye: Yu Jing and PanO. I am curious on play styles, fun factor, learning curve, etc. Here is what has caught my eye on each:

Yu Jing: The fluff of it being an Asian-themed faction. I also like quite a few of the models in particular. The only two drawbacks that are holding me back on them is not knowing how they play on the table and that they seem to be a darker shade of grey than PanO (I tend to gravitate away from evil-ish factions)

PanO: They remind me of my favorite anime flick Appleseed. I like the model line here as well. The only two drawbacks for them is that I don't know how they play on the table and I heard bits and pieces that they are a specialist faction/middle of the road faction.

All in all, I am attracted to both and just can't decide. Can anyone give me their insight/personal experience with either? Fluff aspects, play experience, etc. All are welcome!

Yu-Jing is the more sinister faction compared to PanO. Some like the communist shade with some Nippon oppression and a bit "anime" martial artists they offer. It's not for me.

Their units are less specialised as PanOceania equivalent but the faction has good selection of heavy infantry with some other interesting units thrown in such as, motorcycles and airborne unit. They have access to more aggressive units so they have easier time with pressuring the opponent. They are well rounded faction with some CC specialists but without access to really top notch technology, however that tends to be not really a weakness in Infinity.

PanOceania. Well, I like them. They were the first to re-start and still have the largest space fleet and broadest interest among various fields of science. It has the diversity of various planets and people that are part of her. Intriguing political theatre among various lobbies. A lot of interpretation will depend how you imagine certain factors. The faction can have nicer feeling (progressive social capitalism) or simply dark (the very worst of capitalism). I haven't read the new background version so I can't know, if something was changed.

On the table I like them a bit less. They are specialists in the sense every unit is focused on a certain area. However they give up a lot of options and with exception of few units, their high ballistic statistics and access to heavier weapons tends to be all it has it going for them. A lot of interesting light infantry while medium infantry tends to be rather standard and nothing special, when compared to options others will have. Due to the low will power attribute, we're also the worst specialist faction in the game (doctors, heckers), however Yu-Jing honestly isn't that much better when it comes to specialists.

TAG are something I don't recommend. Play-wise they never worked for me (or others). The lists with them tend to demand that you base your list and play around them. Rather expensive price (€, $) for they offer.

If you're undecided I'd recommend Yu Jing.

A point to note is that strictly speaking there are no 'evil' factions within Infinity. Even the Combined Army (the alien aggressors threatening the Human Sphere) are doing so to try and expand their empire and involve new races so their EI (the alien artificial intelligence) can solve the question of transcendence. It's all a case of moral relevancy, and depending from where you are looking anyone can be the good or the bad guys.

If you read the books (actually, I would totally recommend the new rulebook if you are interested in the background) Yu Jing is a kind of development of how China is now - it's expanded, absorbing Japan and Korea, done some other things like re-introduce an 'Emperor' who functions as a cultural figurehead and focal point within the administration, and has some socialist elements in the same way as modern China. Not communist, but then China isn't either if we are going by academic definition.

Pan-O is something more like the modern, liberal state. Citizens there have more personal freedoms and on average are slightly more well-off than their Yu-Jing counterparts. Essentially the concept of the political 'party' system has broken down to be replaced by rule by corporations and interest/lobby groups - all of these interact within the political arena to give a more true conception, and less smoke and mirrors, of representation and democracy.

And of course 'Aleph', the human AI, which runs the Human Sphere and makes complex modern society possible within both Pan-O and Yu-Jing.

The relationship between Yu-Jing and Pan-O again draws parallels from the current situation - with the 'West' in a position of primacy, but China is growing and gaining fast. Within the Infinity universe, Pan O got the jump by investing in space exploration and technology (seen as wasteful by Yu-Jing) and were in a position to benefit quickly once the first stable worm-holes were discovered and off-world colonisation became a reality.

Game-wise (and you will probably read this a lot), really each faction is what you make of it - it's possible to play in a variety of styles, using different tactics, across factions. While some are 'greyed out' (Ariadna using hackers for instance) for most of the time you can find the unit you want; infiltrating snipers, drop troops, aggressive HI etc. for each of the factions.

In all honesty (and again, you will read this more than once!) I would have a read of some of the background, and then look through the miniature ranges and see which captures your eye - then go from there! Hope that helps.

Keep in mind as well that each subfaction, the Sectorials, also have their own flavour, both in character and gameplay.

For Yu Jing, you've got two basic choices right now (I've spent the most time going through their stuff, so I shant comment on PanO, I like the model range, but I'm not "up" on their sectorials - no one's finished an army of them yet locally)

The Imperial Service is the Yu-Jing secret police/counter-terror force, kind of like a cross between the KGB and the French Gendarmerie, but with virtually unlimited authority . Like all Yu-Jing factions, they've got plenty of heavy infantry who can take/deal out quite a punch, but also have access to a fair number of fodder infantry to soak up subversive bullets for the good of the State. They've got a bit more in the way of specialists than stock Yu-Jing or the Japanese, but still fairly general combat units. These guys aren't exactly nice, however, and if one were to convert an Imperial Agent model with a large helmet with an opaque visor and pronounced scowl, grumbling something about I AM THE LAW! it wouldn't be out of place.

The Japanese Sectoral Army is a bit of an odd duck in Infinity; they're a melee shock army in a game which is ultimately about shooting people. They've got very little in the way of fire support (their basic troops, their TAG and Raiden, special weapon medium infantry are all you've got, aside from ninja with sniper rifles, which are awesome), but will, nine times out of ten, annihilate the foe if they get into charging distance. Their heavy infantry are durable, and almost every model in the army has Courage, so they don't need to make tests to see if they run into cover when hit, and can take models who automatically replace your lieutenant when they die (when, rather than if is a rule for these guys), and have fairly cheap TAGs who you can run two of with plenty of points to spare, if one wants to mecha it up. They're tricky to play, as all their heavy infantry have pretty short engagement ranges, but they don't slow down for much and have lots of template weapons, so a sneaky camo-heavy player will most likely die screaming.

Thematically, they're a society which has fallen back on classical Japanese culture while faced with an equal mix of repression and disinterest from their overlords; this is a society of honour, personal perfection, stoicism in a larger state which couldn't care less about any of those things, in which the JSA is a disposable force made of a disposable population, which has resulted in the rise of subversive elements within the army seeking to undermine the larger Yu-Jing (thus being perfectly "fluffy" to have a JSA army fight another Yu-Jing army).

In the next book, about, I don't know, 6 months out, we're also going to see the "Invincible Army," which I imagine will be more of the conventional Yu-Jing heavy infantry force with more glorious, glorious Hac-Taos. I'm scant on details for that one I'm afraid.

This kind of diversity you can find across any of the factions, which gives the game a deceptive depth; whether Ariadna, PanO, Yu-Jing or whatever, the sectorials will diverge a fair bit in flavour and playstyle while still holding true to the core tenants of the faction (HI for Yu-Jing, direct combat specialists for PanO, no fancy toys for Ariadna, etc)

Well, Yu Jing may be a bit of a policial state with a really powerful paramilitary police, the Japanese may be an oppresed minority (althought their answer being terrorism isn't helping) but most people (first class citizens so no Japanese) lives better, while PanO may be more liberal but they have a very heavy colonial style control of Varuna and it's native inhabitants (amphibous sentient creatures called Helots) and their control of them is way more militarized than the Imperial Service, while the IS may break your door, take you, interrogate you and (sometimes) turn you into a brainwashed zombie loaded with explosives and sent to die in battle the Blue Sea Project (PanO's colonial force in Varuna) will launch an attack against your village using combat troops (and a TAG or two) and destroy, not to mention the Hexaedron, politically sanctioned killers and criminals, at least in Yu Jing every agent is controlled by whoever is in charge (the Emperor even forced a particularily brutal section (Bao troops) to be fielded always under the supervision of a higher rank agent, as controlled as the situation may be in Yu Jing I would prefer to live there than to live in PanO, where if you can't pay for the latest update to your Comlog you may die because they don't use physical street signs.

But hey, I play the Imperial Service sectorial so I'm biased.

as for playstiles, if anyone can pull a defence is PanO (but being defensive ain't gonna bring you victory), Yu Jing can pull it off but as most units have a (light) ovrepricing due to extra CC (not always useful) they are better on the ofensive, with great Airborne units, swift motorcycles, Infiltrating Heavy Infantries and other killy stuff Yu Jing doesn't like to wait on the defence (but it can).
Still, most factions can do everything now, even Ariadna got Hackers and while most of their HI are not as heavy as other faction's they are cheaper.

 aldo wrote:
Well, Yu Jing may be a bit of a policial state with a really powerful paramilitary police, the Japanese may be an oppresed minority (althought their answer being terrorism isn't helping) but most people (first class citizens so no Japanese) lives better, while PanO may be more liberal but they have a very heavy colonial style control of Varuna and it's native inhabitants (amphibous sentient creatures called Helots) and their control of them is way more militarized than the Imperial Service, while the IS may break your door, take you, interrogate you and (sometimes) turn you into a brainwashed zombie loaded with explosives and sent to die in battle the Blue Sea Project (PanO's colonial force in Varuna) will launch an attack against your village using combat troops (and a TAG or two) and destroy, not to mention the Hexaedron, politically sanctioned killers and criminals, at least in Yu Jing every agent is controlled by whoever is in charge (the Emperor even forced a particularily brutal section (Bao troops) to be fielded always under the supervision of a higher rank agent, as controlled as the situation may be in Yu Jing I would prefer to live there than to live in PanO, where if you can't pay for the latest update to your Comlog you may die because they don't use physical street signs.

But hey, I play the Imperial Service sectorial so I'm biased.

as for playstiles, if anyone can pull a defence is PanO (but being defensive ain't gonna bring you victory), Yu Jing can pull it off but as most units have a (light) ovrepricing due to extra CC (not always useful) they are better on the ofensive, with great Airborne units, swift motorcycles, Infiltrating Heavy Infantries and other killy stuff Yu Jing doesn't like to wait on the defence (but it can).
Still, most factions can do everything now, even Ariadna got Hackers and while most of their HI are not as heavy as other faction's they are cheaper.

Hey Hey Hey, don't go accusing Ariadna HI of being HI

They're just MI with EM vulnerability. and have buckets of cheap AP weapons or are camouflaged

Thanks everyone for the great posts so far!

I think I have settled on PanO. I have a few questions on their playstyle:

Are they a more of defense first or can they play aggressively? I myself tend to play that way naturally.

How are the named characters in Infinity? Are they actually good and worth putting on the table?

PanO is a very much 'brute force' faction. They excel when facing the enemy head on and using their superior technology (more accurate weapons, disposable robot sidekicks, throwable mines, lots of thermoptic camo). They fail when they get wrecked by 'dirty tricks' such as enemy infiltrators or impersonators, heavy weapon ambushers, hackers and e/m launchers, and lieutenant assassiantion.

Named characters are the same as any other unit. They generally are modelled as an officer of a certain type of troop, and are the same thing but with a slight variant load out. They don't really behave differently except for the load-outs.

Though, if you're playing PanO, Joan of Arc is really good in N3 since she is a very powerful (if obvious) Lieutenant, that leads from the front. Her YuJing counterpart, Sun Tzu, is a lot less capable of a combatant but has a strong 'outmaneuver the enemy before the game starts' element.

 Havok210 wrote:
Thanks everyone for the great posts so far!

I think I have settled on PanO. I have a few questions on their playstyle:

Are they a more of defense first or can they play aggressively? I myself tend to play that way naturally.

How are the named characters in Infinity? Are they actually good and worth putting on the table?

Aggressive play is mandatory for any faction, even though in ITS scenarios the situation is a bit different. It's more about board control and using order efficient units to get to the objectives, units that open corridors are nice but I don't think they should be prioritised in such setting. There are scenarios that are more annihilation based but what scenarios you'll end up playing is up to you and your opponent.

Named characters tend to give you decent deals. I'm not sold on Joan, pushing people forward the midfield is a nice ability but coordinated order isn't what it used to be, I really miss the weight of barrage fire you used to create.

JSA isn't all about close combat. The Aragoto bikes are very good close range shooting units and they have the Keisotsu fireteam options.

I think they are about being strong in the active turn, weak in the reactive one. Or strong offence, less in the way of defence.

 Havok210 wrote:
I think I have settled on PanO. I have a few questions on their playstyle:

Are they a more of defense first or can they play aggressively? I myself tend to play that way naturally.

http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/26531-n3-intelligence-dossier-panoceania/

There's an excellent new thread on PanOceania on the CB boards, which talks about exactly what you're asking.

 Riquende wrote:

 Havok210 wrote:
I think I have settled on PanO. I have a few questions on their playstyle:

Are they a more of defense first or can they play aggressively? I myself tend to play that way naturally.

http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/26531-n3-intelligence-dossier-panoceania/

There's an excellent new thread on PanOceania on the CB boards, which talks about exactly what you're asking.

I was just about to post this.

Read it as really breaks down the PanO play style..

It's worth noting that close combat got a huge buff in 3rd edition. It's also a lot easier to get into close combat now.

It's about the same for PanO, perhaps even riskier with new suppressive fire and shotgun. It's always more beneficial to use a gun with more burst than entering CC with a model that lacks decent MA levels.

I'd go yu jing akira bikes and appleseed guijas=winning

If she isn't fussy and you are confiding pan o then getting icestorm would be a great idea. She takes the nomads you take the panO you get to run through the ice storm camping in to learn the game and even get some dice, paper terrain and counters.