What's the lowest point cost for a full CAD with your codex ?

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**morgoth**

Oftentimes when thinking about 40K balance, it seems to me that some armies have a much easier time fitting "only good stuff" in a single CAD @ 1850 points.

Oftentimes, I feel Orks could easily do two CADs at that level, etc.

For Eldar, it's 841 points (Autarch, banshees, windriders, vypers, vaul's wrath).

**vipoid**

IG:
2x CCSs
3x 3 Ratlings
6x Veterans
3x Scout Sentinel
3x Wyvern
870pts

DE:
2x Lhamaean
3x 3 Mandrakes
6x Warriors
3x Beastmaster
3x Cronos
698pts

I am confused about what you mean though, Surely "only good stuff" will generally be very different from the cheapest full CAD you can field?

Speaking personally, I wouldn't want to use either of the above CADs in my list.

**Krargan**

2 Librarians
3 vanguard
6 scouts
3 attack bikes
3 whirlwinds

1075 pts

**Andilus Greatsword**

Nids probably win.

2x Tyrant Primes
3x Pyrovores
6x Mucloid Spores
3x Spore Mines
3x Biovores
TOTAL: 625pts

Space Wolves come in pretty close though.

2x Wolf Guard Battle Leader
3x Servitors
6x 5 Blood Claws
3x Drop Pods
3x 2 Long Fangs
TOTAL: 685pts (with Forge World, you can actually save 50pts with Tarantula Sentry Guns)

**A Town Called Malus**

Tau:

2 Ethereals
6 Fire Warrior Teams
3 Crisis Suits (individual suits, no weapons or systems)
3 Pirhana (individual vehicles)
3 Sniper Drone Teams

Total: 784 points

Farsight Enclaves:

2 Ethereals
5 individual Crisis Suits, one 3 man team
3 Stealth Teams
3 Pirhana
3 Sniper Drone Teams

Total: 857 points

**morgoth**

vipoid wrote:

I am confused about what you mean though, Surely "only good stuff" will generally be very different from the cheapest full CAD you can field?

Speaking personally, I wouldn't want to use either of the above CADs in my list.

I'm not sure myself, it's a feeling I've had when comparing lists, that elite armies had a much easier time fitting badass stuff in a single CAD than other armies, like for example Orks or Tyranids (AM has special provisions to fit several untis into one slot).

Apparently, it's not strongly related to the minimum point cost of a full CAD.

**A Town Called Malus**

I think the thing to look out for is the armies that are fitting in powerful units in their least cost CAD.

**vipoid**

morgoth wrote:

I'm not sure myself, it's a feeling I've had when comparing lists, that elite armies had a much easier time fitting badass stuff in a single CAD than other armies, like for example Orks or Tyranids (AM has special provisions to fit several untis into one slot).

Apparently, it's not strongly related to the minimum point cost of a full CAD.

I don't know if it would be any more informative, but it might be interesting to look at the other extreme - i.e. how many points of units can each army fit into a single CAD.

**casvalremdeikun**

BA can do the following

Techmarine x2
Vanguard Veterans x3
Scout Squad x6
Drop Pod x3
Whirlwind x3

Total
1015

**necron_warrior_198465**

Necrons:

2 Overlords
6 Warrior Units
3 Flayed One Units
3 Tomb Blade Units
3 Canoptek Spyders

= 975

**Quickjager**

Err damn that point difference

2 Libbies
6 GKSS
3 Purifiers
3 Rhinos
3 Purgation

1690

**oz of the north**

Champions of Fenris has pretty low with

2 Wolf Guard Battle Leaders
8 servitors
3 blood claws
3 drop pods
3 units of long fangs

all told 555

**xFinality**

Orks:

2 Meks / Big Meks
6 Gretchin
3 Kommandos
3 Warbuggies
3 Mek Guns

519 with Meks / 559 with Big Meks

**A Town Called Malus**

vipoid wrote:
morgoth wrote:

I'm not sure myself, it's a feeling I've had when comparing lists, that elite armies had a much easier time fitting badass stuff in a single CAD than other armies, like for example Orks or Tyranids (AM has special provisions to fit several untis into one slot).

Apparently, it's not strongly related to the minimum point cost of a full CAD.

I don't know if it would be any more informative, but it might be interesting to look at the other extreme - i.e. how many points of units can each army fit into a single CAD.

Pretty confident Farsight Enclaves could win that one, thanks to being able to fit 8 characters into a single HQ slot.

HQ:
The Eight
Commander with 4 Shield Generators, 2 Drones and all signature systems except ECPA, Warscraper and Fusion Blades
-2 Shas'vre Bodyguards (3 Shield Gens, bonding knives, 2 Drones)

Troops:
6x 3 Crisis with 3 shield generators, bonding knives, 2 drones each and a shas'vre

Elite:
3x max stealth team with shield gens, Bonding Knives, 2 Fusion Blasters, 2 Drones and a Shas'vre with all upgrades

Fast Attack:
3x Max Pirhana Squadron with fusion blaster, 2 Seeker missiles and all vehicle upgrades

Heavy Support:
3x 3 Broadsides with Plasma rifles, Shield Generator, bonding knife, Seeker Missile, 2 Drones and Shas'vre upgrade on one

Total: 8585 points

**Icculus**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
vipoid wrote:
morgoth wrote:

I'm not sure myself, it's a feeling I've had when comparing lists, that elite armies had a much easier time fitting badass stuff in a single CAD than other armies, like for example Orks or Tyranids (AM has special provisions to fit several untis into one slot).

Apparently, it's not strongly related to the minimum point cost of a full CAD.

I don't know if it would be any more informative, but it might be interesting to look at the other extreme - i.e. how many points of units can each army fit into a single CAD.

Pretty confident Farsight Enclaves could win that one, thanks to being able to fit 8 characters into a single HQ slot.

HQ:
The Eight
Commander with 4 Shield Generators, 2 Drones and all signature systems except ECPA, Warscraper and Fusion Blades
-2 Shas'vre Bodyguards (3 Shield Gens, bonding knives, 2 Drones)

Troops:
6x 3 Crisis with 3 shield generators, bonding knives, 2 drones each and a shas'vre

Elite:
3x max stealth team with shield gens, Bonding Knives, 2 Fusion Blasters, 2 Drones and a Shas'vre with all upgrades

Fast Attack:
3x Max Pirhana Squadron with fusion blaster, 2 Seeker missiles and all vehicle upgrades

Heavy Support:
3x 3 Broadsides with Plasma rifles, Shield Generator, bonding knife, Seeker Missile, 2 Drones and Shas'vre upgrade on one

Total: 8585 points

Woah! Apocalypse level points. With a very minimal number of models. That's a pretty impressive upgrade list.

**morgoth**

vipoid wrote:
morgoth wrote:

I'm not sure myself, it's a feeling I've had when comparing lists, that elite armies had a much easier time fitting badass stuff in a single CAD than other armies, like for example Orks or Tyranids (AM has special provisions to fit several untis into one slot).

Apparently, it's not strongly related to the minimum point cost of a full CAD.

I don't know if it would be any more informative, but it might be interesting to look at the other extreme - i.e. how many points of units can each army fit into a single CAD.

I think that's another very interesting metric, yes.

As long as good options are taken of course, not the ridiculous Tau joke posted above

**A Town Called Malus**

morgoth wrote:
vipoid wrote:
morgoth wrote:

I'm not sure myself, it's a feeling I've had when comparing lists, that elite armies had a much easier time fitting badass stuff in a single CAD than other armies, like for example Orks or Tyranids (AM has special provisions to fit several untis into one slot).

Apparently, it's not strongly related to the minimum point cost of a full CAD.

I don't know if it would be any more informative, but it might be interesting to look at the other extreme - i.e. how many points of units can each army fit into a single CAD.

I think that's another very interesting metric, yes.

As long as good options are taken of course, not the ridiculous Tau joke posted above

Hey, what's wrong with triple shield generator Crisis Suits?

**Andilus Greatsword**

oz of the north wrote:
Champions of Fenris has pretty low with

2 Wolf Guard Battle Leaders
8 servitors
3 blood claws
3 drop pods
3 units of long fangs

all told 555

Not a CAD though...

**oz of the north**

Andilus Greatsword wrote:
oz of the north wrote:
Champions of Fenris has pretty low with

2 Wolf Guard Battle Leaders
8 servitors
3 blood claws
3 drop pods
3 units of long fangs

all told 555

Not a CAD though...

If using company of great wolf CAD then pretty sure it is, may be required to bring more HQs, do not have supplement on me.

**morgoth**

CAD does not equal formation.

Formations are their own balance issue

**oz of the north**

morgoth wrote:
CAD does not equal formation.

Formations are their own balance issue

I'm not sure if referencing what I said or not

But the company of the great wolf or w/e it's name is, is just a detachment with different compulsory choices and different options, along with bonuses.

Edit:
So probably wrong with my answer, I was thinking CAD was more broad, so not sure so going to respectfully bow out of this.

**niv-mizzet**

oz of the north wrote:
morgoth wrote:
CAD does not equal formation.

Formations are their own balance issue

I'm not sure if referencing what I said or not

But the company of the great wolf or w/e it's name is, is just a detachment with different compulsory choices and different options, along with bonuses.

Edit:
So probably wrong with my answer, I was thinking CAD was more broad, so not sure so going to respectfully bow out of this.

Yeah CAD is just the standard force org with obsec. Other detachments are just that.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lookin' like an ork win on this one.

**Niiru**

oz of the north wrote:
morgoth wrote:
CAD does not equal formation.

Formations are their own balance issue

I'm not sure if referencing what I said or not

But the company of the great wolf or w/e it's name is, is just a detachment with different compulsory choices and different options, along with bonuses.

Edit:
So probably wrong with my answer, I was thinking CAD was more broad, so not sure so going to respectfully bow out of this.

CAD is not FOC. A CAD is a type of FOC. A detachment is a different type of FOC.

CAD is the one which gives you Objective Secured, basically its what the default old-school FOC is now called.

**vipoid**

A Town Called Malus wrote:
vipoid wrote:

I don't know if it would be any more informative, but it might be interesting to look at the other extreme - i.e. how many points of units can each army fit into a single CAD.

Pretty confident Farsight Enclaves could win that one, thanks to being able to fit 8 characters into a single HQ slot.

HQ:
The Eight
Commander with 4 Shield Generators, 2 Drones and all signature systems except ECPA, Warscraper and Fusion Blades
-2 Shas'vre Bodyguards (3 Shield Gens, bonding knives, 2 Drones)

Troops:
6x 3 Crisis with 3 shield generators, bonding knives, 2 drones each and a shas'vre

Elite:
3x max stealth team with shield gens, Bonding Knives, 2 Fusion Blasters, 2 Drones and a Shas'vre with all upgrades

Fast Attack:
3x Max Pirhana Squadron with fusion blaster, 2 Seeker missiles and all vehicle upgrades

Heavy Support:
3x 3 Broadsides with Plasma rifles, Shield Generator, bonding knife, Seeker Missile, 2 Drones and Shas'vre upgrade on one

Total: 8585 points

I'll take that bet:

IG
Fully Kitted Demolisher Tank Commander with 2 Fully Kitted Demolisher wingmen - 942
Fully Kitted Demolisher Pask with 2 Fully Kitted Demolisher wingmen - 982
3 Priests - 120
3 Lv2 Primaris Psykers - 225
3 Engineers w/ Servitors - 345
Fully Kitted Tempestus Platoon in Taurox Primes - 1576
Fully Kitted Tempestus Platoon in Taurox Primes - 1576
Fully Kitted Tempestus Platoon in Taurox Primes - 1576
Infantry squad with *all* the trimmings - 2912
Infantry squad with *all* the trimmings - 2912
Infantry squad with *all* the trimmings - 2912
Infantry squad with *all* the trimmings - 2912
Infantry squad with *all* the trimmings - 2912
Infantry squad with *all* the trimmings - 2912
Fully Kitted Hellhound Squadron - 717
Fully Kitted Hellhound Squadron - 717
Fully Kitted Hellhound Squadron - 717
Fully Kitted Demolisher Leman Russ Squadron - 912
Fully Kitted Demolisher Leman Russ Squadron - 912
Fully Kitted Demolisher Leman Russ Squadron - 912
29701pts

**TheAvengingKnee**

Nids: 769

HQ:
tyranid prime
tyranid prime

Troops:
6x 3x Rippers

Fast:
3x 3x spore mine cluster

Elite:
3x pyrovore

Heavy:
3x biovore

**Happyjew**

vipoid wrote:
A Town Called Malus wrote:
vipoid wrote:

I don't know if it would be any more informative, but it might be interesting to look at the other extreme - i.e. how many points of units can each army fit into a single CAD.

Pretty confident Farsight Enclaves could win that one, thanks to being able to fit 8 characters into a single HQ slot.

HQ:
The Eight
Commander with 4 Shield Generators, 2 Drones and all signature systems except ECPA, Warscraper and Fusion Blades
-2 Shas'vre Bodyguards (3 Shield Gens, bonding knives, 2 Drones)

Troops:
6x 3 Crisis with 3 shield generators, bonding knives, 2 drones each and a shas'vre

Elite:
3x max stealth team with shield gens, Bonding Knives, 2 Fusion Blasters, 2 Drones and a Shas'vre with all upgrades

Fast Attack:
3x Max Pirhana Squadron with fusion blaster, 2 Seeker missiles and all vehicle upgrades

Heavy Support:
3x 3 Broadsides with Plasma rifles, Shield Generator, bonding knife, Seeker Missile, 2 Drones and Shas'vre upgrade on one

Total: 8585 points

I'll take that bet:

IG
Fully Kitted Demolisher Tank Commander with 2 Fully Kitted Demolisher wingmen - 942
Fully Kitted Demolisher Pask with 2 Fully Kitted Demolisher wingmen - 982
3 Priests - 120
3 Lv2 Primaris Psykers - 225
3 Engineers w/ Servitors - 345
Fully Kitted Tempestus Platoon in Taurox Primes - 1576
Fully Kitted Tempestus Platoon in Taurox Primes - 1576
Fully Kitted Tempestus Platoon in Taurox Primes - 1576
Infantry squad with *all* the trimmings - 2912
Infantry squad with *all* the trimmings - 2912
Infantry squad with *all* the trimmings - 2912
Infantry squad with *all* the trimmings - 2912
Infantry squad with *all* the trimmings - 2912
Infantry squad with *all* the trimmings - 2912
Fully Kitted Hellhound Squadron - 717
Fully Kitted Hellhound Squadron - 717
Fully Kitted Hellhound Squadron - 717
Fully Kitted Demolisher Leman Russ Squadron - 912
Fully Kitted Demolisher Leman Russ Squadron - 912
Fully Kitted Demolisher Leman Russ Squadron - 912
29701pts

I'll see your AM and raise you Nids:

Spoiler:

Tyranids will always win as they can just keep adding Tyrannocytes (which don't use up a slot).

**Niiru**

Tyrannocytes never use up a slot? That seems odd. Usually theres a proviso like "For every HQ you have you can take one of x" etc etc

**CrownAxe**

If Forge World Lists are allowed...

Renegades CAD

Arch-Demagogue
Enforcer
3x Disciples
6x Mutants
3x Salamander Tanks
3x Griffon Tanks

595 points

**A Town Called Malus**

Niiru wrote:
Tyrannocytes never use up a slot? That seems odd. Usually theres a proviso like "For every HQ you have you can take one of x" etc etc

Looking at their rules on the GW website. Nope, he's right. They never take up a slot

**casvalremdeikun**

I maxed out at 8434 pts with just basic BA (no FW). I don't recall if there is a limit on the number of Damocles Command Rhinos, but if there isn't and I included FW, the number becomes infinite.