Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In a way. The issue comes from forming neat & ordered ranks. Fantasy as we know it has clearly defined from, rear & flanks. Getting circular bases to rank up into perfect rectangles is difficult.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
In a way. The issue comes from forming neat & ordered ranks. Fantasy as we know it has clearly defined from, rear & flanks. Getting circular bases to rank up into perfect rectangles is difficult.

So...they'd be selling trays then like with LOTR? lol

All of this (end times, starting fluff from scratch) might explain why FFG abruptly stopped developing content for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 3rd edition a year or so ago ( obviously this has been in development at GW for quite a while). They never did release an Elf supplement for the RPG before it died out.

 malfred wrote:

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
In a way. The issue comes from forming neat & ordered ranks. Fantasy as we know it has clearly defined from, rear & flanks. Getting circular bases to rank up into perfect rectangles is difficult.

So...they'd be selling trays then like with LOTR? lol

Even with those trays tho the units would end up being so big because of the spaces between models.
Big horde units would end up having an extremely large footprint on the tabletop.

It will have the option to play both tho (it says that somewhere in the rumours am I right?) I just think its cool to have less troops and have them spaced out on lotr style trays. You can see the pain jobs better etc. But at the same time seeing and playing a fully painted fully ranked up army is very nice.

I don't mind changes but this one is pretty huge if this is in fact true.
Maybe they are trying to make something in between fantasy and mordhiem where its skirmish like but ranked up more? I'm not sure. Too early to tell. I find it odd that all these rumours are coming out and its not even close to may yet. Especially since book 5 of end times Archeon hasn't been heard of yet much

Anyone think that these rumors are part of a new game?

Set in the warhammer universe, smaller scale but be a separate game from warhammer?

work as a gate way drug... I mean game.

 Piston Honda wrote:
Anyone think that these rumors are part of a new game?

Set in the warhammer universe, smaller scale but be a separate game from warhammer?

work as a gate way drug... I mean game.

I'd be more OK with this, though I don't see why you can't just use square bases. I think GW is trying to shake things up, ET shook things up and has been great for them but at some point you push a bit too far and all that success is lost from a huge backlash. We've seen some backlash from khaine magic but round bases would push it over the edge.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 Piston Honda wrote:
Anyone think that these rumors are part of a new game?

Set in the warhammer universe, smaller scale but be a separate game from warhammer?

work as a gate way drug... I mean game.

I'd be more OK with this, though I don't see why you can't just use square bases. I think GW is trying to shake things up, ET shook things up and has been great for them but at some point you push a bit too far and all that success is lost from a huge backlash. We've seen some backlash from khaine magic but round bases would push it over the edge.

Games workshop shaking things up again
Forcing you to switch all you 500 square bases for round bases.
In other news games workshop is releases new round bases limited edition. Pack of 20 for a low low price of $15.99.

Ya frig that.

I could see them doing a separate game tho, as a tie in. Maybe in the same rulebook?

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

 Piston Honda wrote:
Anyone think that these rumors are part of a new game?

Set in the warhammer universe, smaller scale but be a separate game from warhammer?

work as a gate way drug... I mean game.

I'd be more OK with this, though I don't see why you can't just use square bases. I think GW is trying to shake things up, ET shook things up and has been great for them but at some point you push a bit too far and all that success is lost from a huge backlash. We've seen some backlash from khaine magic but round bases would push it over the edge.

could be a number of reasons why they would use round over square, popular reason would be you would have to rebase, buy new or can't easily proxy.

A lot of skirmish games use round bases, they seem to be a bit more fluid when it comes to rules with base contact.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
In a way. The issue comes from forming neat & ordered ranks. Fantasy as we know it has clearly defined from, rear & flanks. Getting circular bases to rank up into perfect rectangles is difficult.

With Malfred's movement trays it'd be easier to rank round-based models up, since you have some leeway to rotate them a degree or so and prevent weapons and shields and things poking awkwardly into the mini's neighbour. Front, rear and flanks are more about the unit footprint as a whole. (Just like *gasp* all those multibased battle games that don't fiddle about with casualty removal.)

Also, movement trays for round-based minis aren't unprecedented outside of the War of the Ring game. You don't even need regularly spaced slots for them.

 malfred wrote:
Question:

I'm not too familiar with all the different base sizes, but wouldn't you just be able to fit round based fantasy models on movement
trays just as easily as square based ones?

While the bases are the same width, they do not have the same surface area or dimensional frontage to properly work within the established WHFB method of ranking up and moving. Lots of measurements are done from the corner of a models base, round bases make the corner(and facing) impossible to determine.

Round bases for regiments?
How is this going to work?
Maybe 32 mm?

A general thought is that they want to make 40k and the new Fantasy be compatible, just like WM and Hordes.

Thats not going to happen. WHFB and 40k are totally separate games with only a few things in common.

Hordes and Warmachine are the same game. They're only separated for business purposes really.

 Piston Honda wrote:
Anyone think that these rumors are part of a new game?

Set in the warhammer universe, smaller scale but be a separate game from warhammer?

Yes, this is effectively a new game, a matched successor, a la Evangelion Rebuild, if you will.

Same universe, same world, same continuity, but streamlined and grimmer from what came before.

I don't know if this has been mentioned on this thread already (haven't kept up with all 20+ pages), but do you guys remember the spanish rumors thread posted on Warseer early last fall?

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?399509-Changes-to-Warhammer-in-2015-aka-quot-The-Spanish-Rumours-quot

Here's some of what those rumors claimed:

Originally Posted by Wonderwolf
A rumour from a spanish site (found here: http://www.cargad.com/index.php/2014...aba-warhammer/ )

They were the first to mention a release of Nagash / End Times campaign (May 29th), but did so in a context saying that this End Times campaign would be the lead to a closure of "Warhammer" (presumably WFB, not 40K), followed by a subsequent new skirmish game (presumably fantasy-ish-themed) in 2015

and

Originally Posted by cazzz669
So, just got off the horn with a contact at GW who apparently has just come out of a briefing regarding the future of WHF
in May 2015 after the End of Times WHF will become a skirmish game centered around surviving warbands after the "armegeddon" of the fantasy world as a result of the End of Times.
Chaos decimate the Empire
Nagash and co decimate Brettonia
Ulthuan sinks
there will be less army books than currently ( no idea if this means imalgimation armies )

appreciate I do not post very often so will doubtless recieve a whole load of flame for this post BUT given i literally just got told it, thought some people here would appreciate me sharing..
Personally I hope to god this is all incorrect

That second quote in particular mentions Ulthuan sinking, which happened in the Khaine book. Bear in mind these rumors were posted before the Khaine book was released. The May release date also roughly lines up with Darnok's rumored release date of April (i.e. late spring not summer). All of this, in combination, kind of make these rumors a bit more believable to me... and have made me a lot more concerned.
Thoughts?

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Piston Honda wrote:
Anyone think that these rumors are part of a new game?

Set in the warhammer universe, smaller scale but be a separate game from warhammer?

Yes, this is effectively a new game, a matched successor, a la Evangelion Rebuild, if you will.

Same universe, same world, same continuity, but streamlined and grimmer from what came before.

I believe Piston meant as in Warhammer would still exist as a large scale regiment based game but the new game would be a side thing, not a replacement (that said I have no idea what Evangelion Rebuild is so maybe that's what you meant ).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chochky wrote:
I don't know if this has been mentioned on this thread already (haven't kept up with all 20+ pages), but do you guys remember the spanish rumors thread posted on Warseer early last fall?

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?399509-Changes-to-Warhammer-in-2015-aka-quot-The-Spanish-Rumours-quot

Here's some of what those rumors claimed:

Originally Posted by Wonderwolf
A rumour from a spanish site (found here: http://www.cargad.com/index.php/2014...aba-warhammer/ )

They were the first to mention a release of Nagash / End Times campaign (May 29th), but did so in a context saying that this End Times campaign would be the lead to a closure of "Warhammer" (presumably WFB, not 40K), followed by a subsequent new skirmish game (presumably fantasy-ish-themed) in 2015

and

Originally Posted by cazzz669
So, just got off the horn with a contact at GW who apparently has just come out of a briefing regarding the future of WHF
in May 2015 after the End of Times WHF will become a skirmish game centered around surviving warbands after the "armegeddon" of the fantasy world as a result of the End of Times.
Chaos decimate the Empire
Nagash and co decimate Brettonia
Ulthuan sinks
there will be less army books than currently ( no idea if this means imalgimation armies )

appreciate I do not post very often so will doubtless recieve a whole load of flame for this post BUT given i literally just got told it, thought some people here would appreciate me sharing..
Personally I hope to god this is all incorrect

That second quote in particular mentions Ulthuan sinking, which happened in the Khaine book. Bear in mind these rumors were posted before the Khaine book was released. The May release date also roughly lines up with Darnok's rumored release date of April (i.e. late spring not summer). All of this, in combination, kind of make these rumors a bit more believable to me... and have made me a lot more concerned.
Thoughts?

That sounds fething terrible. GW took away specialist games now they're going to feth over one of their main games?

To GW: People were asking for change, but not like this, NOT LIKE THIS!!

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Piston Honda wrote:
Anyone think that these rumors are part of a new game?

Set in the warhammer universe, smaller scale but be a separate game from warhammer?

Yes, this is effectively a new game, a matched successor, a la Evangelion Rebuild, if you will.

Same universe, same world, same continuity, but streamlined and grimmer from what came before.

I believe Piston meant as in Warhammer would still exist as a large scale regiment based game but the new game would be a side thing, not a replacement (that said I have no idea what Evangelion Rebuild is so maybe that's what you meant ).


That sounds fething terrible. GW took away specialist games now they're going to feth over one of their main games?

People can still play large games with lots of wound counters, but the standard size will be smaller, perhaps 1000 pts. It will accomodate more wounds, but it won't require them. If I had to guess, 9E will remove rank bonuses and horde, along with all the associated complexity. There won't be a feeling that to "need" huge units.

I would not be surprised to learn that Fantasy is driving a P/L line equivalent to a pre-cancellation Specialist Game.

I'm gonna input my opinion, and it's in no way a positive one. I've only been playing 40k for a year, and my core rulebook was only valid for 6 months before I had to buy a new one. This was the first thing that got me annoyed, but I understood that it could have happened at any time before or after I started. Now I've started playing fantasy, I've collected a fair amount of models from christmas and my birthday, but if they are all invalidated by the end of the year, I'm selling them. All of them. The way they're supposedly handling this is an absolute farce, and would be more than enough to drive me away. It might be an attempt to shake up the game so it's more easily accessible to more people, but it is in no way the right way to be going about it. The first thing I looked at once I heard about the warhammer world was the fluff, and I absolutely love it to bits. If they change it to this 'bubble' gak, I'm out, and my Skaven are going to be left in the dark.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Thats not going to happen. WHFB and 40k are totally separate games with only a few things in common.

at the moment...

Let this be a lesson to us all: Be careful what you wish for. We wanted WHFB to go back to its skirmish roots and be less expensive. Well, we got it...

If this is true, I'm starting whfb! Couldn't afford the huge startup cost before, but this would make me jump in immediately. Very excited!

Hmm... Warhammer post apocalyptic skirmish game you say? Might be up for that...

If its all about chaos , then small war bands of communities stand no chance, the gods would just send everything against each bubble. Ill be out of this skirmish as it wont feel like fantasy for me anymore.

Well, who knows, it may be like lotr sized forces which I enjoyed a lot with friends when I was younger and the story may be good.

I will hold off my judgement but something definitely will die for me in fantasy.

 Piston Honda wrote:
Anyone think that these rumors are part of a new game?

Set in the warhammer universe, smaller scale but be a separate game from warhammer?

work as a gate way drug... I mean game.

I think everyone at this point would be hoping for a new game alongside WFB, rather than one that comes at the expense of it.

A separate game would indeed be awesome but please dont have it replace what we know and love today.

Hmm, if they are gonna make such a radical move, why not go all the way, like this (including airships)?

 Flashman wrote:
Hmm... Warhammer post apocalyptic skirmish game you say? Might be up for that...

All roads seem to be pointing to that.

Let's look at the facts:

1. Round bases in the latest WD would support GW's streamlining and cost-cutting policy as round bases would be standard for all its products

2. Rules for Dungeon fighting in the Skaven end times book. If that's not a heavy hint being dropped, I don't know what is.

3. Fantasy dying a slow death and GW's well known financial woes suggests change is imminent.


I predict that GW are moving towards a skirmish/RPG game of around 35-40 models, much in the vein of the herohammer/ monster hammer days. 6 well supported factions, with regular updates, limited edition books, and rules being exclusive to WD, and various dataslates, is GW taking a leaf out of Magic's book. We're witnessing a steady drip drip drip. Probably to keep people buying, and also to pull the rug from under 3rd party manufacturers.

GW love their big monster kits, people love buying them, so they'll stay. As it stands, having to collect 100+ models for a decent game is off putting for many people, hence the slow decline of fantasy. GW are applying the 40k template to fantasy.

In my view, the GW target audience will be 12-20 years olds, who will throw down £150 for all the models/paints/books they need, and the small model count will get them in the game quicker before they lose interest. Look at GW's paint guides in recent years. Shade, wash, highlight. Quick and easy to do.

I think GW will write off the veterans. They tend to have all the models they need anyway, are moving to other companies in droves, and tend not to buy a lot of GW stuff anyway. GW's model is new blood, and a high turnover at that.

Of course, I could be wrong, I usually am but for me, this is the direction GW are heading in.

Yeah...well...skirmish has another problem, though: it doesn't work with some armies. Goblins and Skaven, for example, don't work in a skirmish game. Huge numbers of models is what makes those armies.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
A separate game would indeed be awesome but please dont have it replace what we know and love today.

Two fantasy games running side by side is a no go, simply because as it stands, fantasy is dying on its feet. It would be money down the drain for GW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Yeah...well...skirmish has another problem, though: it doesn't work with some armies. Goblins and Skaven, for example, don't work in a skirmish game. Huge numbers of models is what makes those armies.

Easily fixed with giving goblins and skaven a recycling rule that allows them to put dead models back on the table. I'm pretty sure Tyranids had this years ago.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:


All roads seem to be pointing to that.

Let's look at the facts:

1. Round bases in the latest WD would support GW's streamlining and cost-cutting policy as round bases would be standard for all its products

2. Rules for Dungeon fighting in the Skaven end times book. If that's not a heavy hint being dropped, I don't know what is.

3. Fantasy dying a slow death and GW's well known financial woes suggests change is imminent.


I predict that GW are moving towards a skirmish/RPG game of around 35-40 models, much in the vein of the herohammer/ monster hammer days. 6 well supported factions, with regular updates, limited edition books, and rules being exclusive to WD, and various dataslates, is GW taking a leaf out of Magic's book. We're witnessing a steady drip drip drip. Probably to keep people buying, and also to pull the rug from under 3rd party manufacturers.

GW love their big monster kits, people love buying them, so they'll stay. As it stands, having to collect 100+ models for a decent game is off putting for many people, hence the slow decline of fantasy. GW are applying the 40k template to fantasy.

In my view, the GW target audience will be 12-20 years olds, who will throw down £150 for all the models/paints/books they need, and the small model count will get them in the game quicker before they lose interest. Look at GW's paint guides in recent years. Shade, wash, highlight. Quick and easy to do.

I think GW will write off the veterans. They tend to have all the models they need anyway, are moving to other companies in droves, and tend not to buy a lot of GW stuff anyway. GW's model is new blood, and a high turnover at that.

Of course, I could be wrong, I usually am but for me, this is the direction GW are heading in.

Don't be putting forth your argument all logical and persuasive like. You're scaring me, stop it, I don't like it.

In all seriousness though, I'm kind of tentatively excited. Having been out of the loop for ages on WHF, I feel like my non-investment somewhat shields me (in a non-bubble fashion) from the coming storm


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or like Chenkov's 'Send in the next wave' special rule in the Guard's last codex

Really confused about the bases. If infantry goes into circular bases and then movement trays are created why not just keep the square bases as they are in the first place? I do not see why skirmish cannot be played with square bases. A smart move would be that the rules can accommodate both types and not just one, I mean people can still play old editions with square bases but if they go all circular then your minis are not retro compatible anymore.
Also Skaven releases are all over the place in therms of basing, some are circular and others are squared, that looks awful on the same army.

As for army deals like the new all in one box Warmachine I think the online deals for ET are close to that except for the rules ( they are bloody expensive though) But I think GW could work out something cool for each faction with a small rulebook and small armybook at a good price.

I have also been inclined to start some Killteams for 40k but the price of the rulebook and dexes alone invalidates any saving for a small model army! You would spend more on the books than on the models for your team and thats frustrating, specially because you can only use a fraction of the rulebooks and dex... they should create some smaller versions just for killteam play.

Going back to fantasy, a skirmish level game to go along with WFB would be much appreciated but again same problem with killteams regarding book prices... What i mean is small skirmish games are impulse buys, you buy x faction now and then look for Y and Z later on, but if the entry price of getting into the Y & Z is increased by dexes I cannot see people collecting much more than X. Also if the books are going to be combined expect the price to be scary...