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They are an excellent unit in the C:SM roster. Sure, their points cost is high, but with a solid 3++ inv. save, the ability to ignore cover, deepstrike with re-roll scatter, fearless and causing fear, and SnP to move and shoot with heavy weapons and assault after firing with rapid-fire weapons, these guys are excellent and self-sufficient.

Yet I never see them in space marine batreps? What am I missing?

 Sir Arun wrote:
They are an excellent unit in the C:SM roster. Sure, their points cost is high, but with a solid 3++ inv. save, the ability to ignore cover, deepstrike with re-roll scatter, fearless and causing fear, and SnP to move and shoot with heavy weapons and assault after firing with rapid-fire weapons, these guys are excellent and self-sufficient.

Yet I never see them in space marine batreps? What am I missing?

They're slightly over-costed for what you get, and they're not able to play the 'I-win button' tactics that both Bikerstars & Centstars can play, hence internet "wisdom" has decided they're unplayable crap.

I find a small 5 man squad with plasmacannon, plasmagun and sarge with forceaxe and plasmapistol can pwn any MEQ squad of their points value, or a squad with MM, Melta and sarge with combi-melta can make Tau and Eldar players truly fear SM.

The fact they end up in quite a few tournament lists shows you haven't looked at too many reports. They fulfill a niche, and do so very well.

LotD are great for taking out pesky cover-abusing vehicles in the backfield, given the correct loadout. They are also an excellent distraction unit, as they can take a lot of punishment if focused, yet deal quite a lot of damage if left unchecked. However, they fight for points bet spent on other units if turn 2 cover-ignoring distraction units are not your thing.

SJ

same reason nobode fields Thousand Sons....Vastly over priced for a one wound model

Okay I felt I had to reply given the title...

I occasionally proxy them in with combi-melta/multi melta/meltagun in a 5 man squad for my salamanders as a second wave unit.

If I can ever get around to it I'm going to scratch build two squads.

I always use them when playing with Vul'Kan lists. Twin-linked melta that ignores cover is pretty sweet. I think the deciding factors are:

1. No chapter tactics

2. Limited amount of special weapons when compared to sternguard/honor guard, which is what they compete against

3. No acces to drop pods. This may sound weird at first, due to their deep strike special rule, but many (not all) SM lists have drop pods, so you kind of need to fill your army with a certain number of key drop pods like 1,3,5,7

4. They're relatively unreliable. They can mishap, scatter bad, fail reserve rolls and what not. In higher games, almost all lists are build around reliably and consistent performance. This is why you see so many bike lists because they consistently perform well and can be relied upon, with high flexibility. They're fast, their "run" move is not random, they have an on demand jink, twin-linked basic weapons etc. So in general, people in competitive settings are simply just dismissive about everything that isn't totally reliable (as reliable as anything can be in a dice game)

5. Last, but certainly not least, they're made with Finecost material


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
same reason nobode fields Thousand Sons....Vastly over priced for a one wound model

In last codex, yes. This codex, no not really. Read post above.

If they had an affordable and customizable box kit im pretty sure they would be equally popular if not more popular as sterngard. However...GW knows this and would rather sell a drop pod and 2 50 dollar sterngard boxes and then 2 special weapons spurs for a combined 160ish bucks. So they keep the LoTD hard to acquire.

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
same reason nobode fields Thousand Sons....Vastly over priced for a one wound model

Thousand sons are 2 points cheaper, only have 4++ and while they do come with a ML1 sorc and have AP3 bolters, these dont ignore cover; they can't take specials/heavy and also cant DS. So they are objectively worse than LotD.

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
same reason nobode fields Thousand Sons....Vastly over priced for a one wound model

Thousand sons are 2 points cheaper, only have 4++ and while they do come with a ML1 sorc and have AP3 bolters, these dont ignore cover; they can't take specials/heavy and also cant DS. So they are objectively worse than LotD.

2 different things can still share the same reason, he isn't comparing the 2 units.
I don't go to church for the same reason I don't let a guy stick a finger up my ass; I don't enjoy it. Sure, it's 2 different things but the reasoning is the same.

 Zewrath wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
same reason nobode fields Thousand Sons....Vastly over priced for a one wound model

Thousand sons are 2 points cheaper, only have 4++ and while they do come with a ML1 sorc and have AP3 bolters, these dont ignore cover; they can't take specials/heavy and also cant DS. So they are objectively worse than LotD.

2 different things can still share the same reason, he isn't comparing the 2 units.
I don't go to church for the same reason I don't let a guy stick a finger up my ass; I don't enjoy it. Sure, it's 2 different things but the reasoning is the same.

Great imagry, thanks for that lol. However the point hes making is pretty relevant. LoTD have a lot more potential uses in for competitive armies than thousand sons so the reasoning has to be something else. I vote rarity of models and precived (incorrect) belief that sterngard are superior .

Sternguard are superior if you're committed to keeping the unit alive. Legion Of The Damned are better if you need to kill or at least really handicap a target for cheap.

I ally them in, and so long as you keep them cheap in points they don't do badly.

5 man with combi-grav, plasmagun, multi-melta. I'll generally get 2 good rounds of shooting from it, mostly for monstrous creature hunting.

I love them! use them when ever I play salamanders. (not saying they get re-roll to wound with flamers just like them for fluff) They are great vs eldar and orks love taking away that cover save with there bolters.

But yeah I think I am the only one who uses them in my group so I understand your question I guess for certain scenarios.

I also think the final verdict is because the official models cost an arm and a leg if you happen to be a collector and want to own all 16 models

 zombiekila707 wrote:
I love them! use them when ever I play salamanders. (not saying they get re-roll to wound with flamers just like them for fluff) They are great vs eldar and orks love taking away that cover save with there bolters.

But yeah I think I am the only one who uses them in my group so I understand your question I guess for certain scenarios.

Remember, Vul'kan master crafts their meltas too FYI (if you even run with Vul'Kan, lol).

 Xenomancers wrote:
If they had an affordable and customizable box kit im pretty sure they would be equally popular if not more popular as sterngard. However...GW knows this and would rather sell a drop pod and 2 50 dollar sterngard boxes and then 2 special weapons spurs for a combined 160ish bucks. So they keep the LoTD hard to acquire.

 Sir Arun wrote:
I also think the final verdict is because the official models cost an arm and a leg if you happen to be a collector and want to own all 16 models

They're just space marines with flames and bones in place of regular insignia. You don't actually need the 'official' models for them. Just take regular space marines and paint flames and bones on them, like people did before there were 'official' LotD models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zewrath wrote:
Remember, Vul'kan master crafts their meltas too FYI (if you even run with Vul'Kan, lol).

What's with the apostrophe in the middle of 'Vulkan'...?

The reason I don’t use them is I’ve not painted my counts-as minis I made for them yet. Mechanically, they look quite good in this edition. Last codex they were massively overpriced, particularly compared to units like sternguard.

Expensive finecast minis, plus baggage from the last book, I suspect are the two big reasons you don’t see them more often.

I have an entire LotD army from 2nd Ed, all metal. Been using them as generic Space Marines from 3rd thru 5th. 6th was out for too short of time for me to get in a game with them, and I haven't used them yet in 7th. They are gorgeous, though.

SJ

 insaniak wrote:

What's with the apostrophe in the middle of 'Vulkan'...?

I always thought that it was there it belonged and not on He'stan, my iPhone still suggests 'Vul'Kan', since that's what I originally typed and I never bothered to correct it ever since.