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 mars2024 wrote:

morgoth wrote:

 mars2024 wrote:
(In fact, the only time I tried a Wraith-tourney list was on Vassal and I decided I wouldn't keep my friends if I ran it so that was it)

What does that even mean ?

Friends wouldn't leave you because of your list, so they're not friends to begin with.

And then, the certainty that a competitive list would get you excluded of your local gaming circle ?

Since when are we supposed to bow to the mellow-list-fascists?

It's not only shocking that you would think such a thing, it's even more shocking that it's at least the twentieth time I've read such a statement.

Is the wargaming community as a whole simply unable to handle slight imbalance ?

Has anyone ever heard of handicaps ?

I beat (tabled) 2000 pts of SW with 1200 pts of Wraithguard, Wraithknights and whatever (I don't really remember the list). It wasn't fun for me. Our Codex is OP and that's fine, but I get tired of hearing about it constantly. I don't need to rub it in my friends' faces.

I got a slight victory against a SW player, with a triple WK + WS Spam list, he had 2350 and I 1850.
Your list is clearly inferior to that, and you were playing with an even bigger handicap with a much larger victory.
In other words, your opponent and his list were just very bad and it had nothing to do with the codex.

Considering the big mistakes that my opponent made and the one relevant mistake that I made, plus his luck with lascannons, I think I could've won as the SW that day.

In my opinion, 30% handicap between a fully optimized list with some experience and a list with a land raider without much experience, is perfectly fine.

Do we really need to get into Comparative vs Friendly again?

Different people enjoy different things. But the majority don't like getting their face bashed in over and over with no chance or variation.

Do you have any reason to believe the OP is in a super a competitive meta?

This game is a social game, whether you like it or not. The 'mellow list Nazis', as you call them, are often people who have seen it go very wrong in the past, and just want to set a new player on a more social path.

If you cannot understand why some people don't want to always play maximally competatively, perhaps you should take a step back and ponder before calling people Nazis.

This is a fun hobby with great people. Room for all kinds, too. Please recognize that some of is care more for the game than the win.

Bharring wrote:
Do we really need to get into Comparative vs Friendly again?

Different people enjoy different things. But the majority don't like getting their face bashed in over and over with no chance or variation.

Do you have any reason to believe the OP is in a super a competitive meta?

This game is a social game, whether you like it or not. The 'mellow list Nazis', as you call them, are often people who have seen it go very wrong in the past, and just want to set a new player on a more social path.

If you cannot understand why some people don't want to always play maximally competatively, perhaps you should take a step back and ponder before calling people Fascists.

This is a fun hobby with great people. Room for all kinds, too. Please recognize that some of is care more for the game than the win.

Exactly, different people enjoy different things.
And a share of those people can't handle competition in any shape or form.
In this 40K game, there is always a way to win and there will be variation if you actually challenge your opponent's list.

Do you have any reason to believe the OP is not interested in playing the game to the fullest ?
This game is a social game, and The mellow-list-fascists as I call them are everywhere on these forums telling people how to play, how to write lists and how to dress to their liking.

Maybe, just maybe, it's a lot more social to play with honest competitive players than hiding-behind-fluff bad-faith people who try to force everyone to play their way.
If you cannot understand why some people may want to play the game as it is, trying their very best at every step of the way for the fun of it, perhaps you should take a step back and ponder before removing the dashes between the words and adding a capital letter.

This is a fun hobby with great people, room for all kinds. Please recognize that some of these care more for the beer and pretzels than for the game.
Like every game, the game is about trying to win, not about pretending to try and win or anything else.
The hobby is about moving miniatures that you spent your time painting lovingly, and there is a lot of meaning in that as well.


The difference between my kind and your kind is that I'm not trying to coerce you into playing my way.

Wow, I have no idea how I came off as a "mellow-list nazi".

I just wanted to let the OP know that not everyone plays the same list. I'm sorry that I somehow came off as coercive or totalitarian. I thought I was simply giving a different perspective.

Really, play how you want. Forge your narrative.

No, you're just trying to make sure everyone knows 'my kind' is dishonest, all about hiding our tiny egos and acting in bad faith.

Reword your last post to remove the demonization and loaded language, and it cuts both ways. Sounds like we mostly agree.

So it comes down to how competative the OP wants to be.

 mars2024 wrote:
Wow, I have no idea how I came off as a "mellow-list nazi".

I just wanted to let the OP know that not everyone plays the same list. I'm sorry that I somehow came off as coercive or totalitarian. I thought I was simply giving a different perspective.

Really, play how you want. Forge your narrative.

It's the "I wouldn't keep my friends line".

It's on these forums in almost every thread, about how playing competitive is evil and hateful and a crime and whatnot.

Of course I can see how you would not be a part of that, and that's why "the mellow-list-fascists" doesn't mean you, but the people who insist we should see WK+WS Spam as something bad, evil, hateful, worse than ... nevermind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bharring wrote:
No, you're just trying to make sure everyone knows 'my kind' is dishonest, all about hiding our tiny egos and acting in bad faith.

Reword your last post to remove the demonization and loaded language, and it cuts both ways. Sounds like we mostly agree.

So it comes down to how competative the OP wants to be.

The people you are defending, and thus being assimilated with, insist on pushing their beliefs on others.
I do not find that to be a good thing.
Those are the "mellow-list-fascists", the people who will (try to) shame you into playing a fluffy (non-optimized crappy) list so that they can have their fun, whatever that is (and it sometimes involves beating you with a much more optimized but still fluffy list).


I'm not telling anyone they should play like me and I find it incredibly shocking that all around DakkaDakka, posters seem to be just fine with others demonizing some play styles.


That's unacceptable behaviour to me, even more so around noobs who still have a chance at not becoming a part of the problem.

HA!

Well Turtleman, welcome to Eldar (and to Dakka). We've put our best foot forward again. I hope you forgive us.

Well it appears most agree that the Eldar can be played by a noob and I dont hear the majority saying otherwise. So I think we can put that subject to rest. Like all armies, you can get fancy with it. But its kinda the Swiss army knife of 40k: a tool for every job.