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Hey!

I'm in the process of building an ork speed freaks list with a focus on bikes, and I've become interested in how people would run their warbiker units. Now I'm using two detachements with Zhadsnark da Rippa' from the Dread Mob pdf as warlord, so my bikers are troops meaning I can spam them rather well and get objective secured. This will influence my ideas, but I'd also like to discuss the effectiveness of the bikers from a pure combat perspective as well. here are a few configurations I've thought of, I'd like input on them as well as hear your own ideas on how to best run bikes!

PK delivery system/Trukk Boyz replacement

5 Warbikers
Nob w. Power Klaw and Boss Pole
148 points

Does what trukk boys do with half the numbers, but more resilience per body with Jink and built in heavy armor, all for a similar price. 6 bikes puts out 18 tl S5 shots, average 10 hits, so they are a much greater shooting threat in addition. Their CC potential is slightly lower than intact trukkers, but they have a much greater possibility of reaching the enemy intact. In the end, I feel this is the smallest configuration I'd run a PK in, since the ablative wounds be too few to justify the cost. Am I right in this? Would you rather increase/decrease the numbers, and would you alter their gear?

Harassment/Cheap objective grabber

3 Warbikers
54 points

Fulfills the same role as an ork deffkopta in that it is a cheap unit which usually requires an over-investment in firepower to remove. An average of 5 S5 hits is also quite decent for the cost, and they can easily hide behind terrain if required. Excels as cheap troops in a Zhadsnark army, being able to replace grots as troop fillers if you so wish. Not much of a threat in CC vs anything MEQ or above, but still an annoyance at range. Now, I'm torn between this configuration and...

Upgraded harassers

2 Warbikers
Nob w. Big Choppa and Combi-Skorcha
79 points

For 25 points you get roughly one more bike's worth in resilience, and become a much greater threat vs. medium infantry with the skorcha. The BC means that the unit gets 4 attacks at S7 on a charge, forcing low rear AV vehicles to take great care when this unit zooms towards them. The plan with this unit is to run them next to PK units, so they might be able to slip under the radar. My only concern is that if I invest in a nob, I should take the unit to a slightly larger size, say 5 models. This however dilutes the purpose of a cheap low-profile unit to the point where I might as well have them carry a PK instead, so I'm not sure about it.

Thanks for reading, looking forward to your replies!

Stick to the 3 model count if for only the reason that you WILL be failing Ld left and right so if you only take 3 you can never drop below 33.3% and thus always test on LD 7 for your regroup rolls.

I used to run 3 count NobBikers way back in the day as a harassment unit. Worked well and all three had combi-Skochas.

BTW is Dredmob still "legal" or is this for just fun games?

Hasn't been redone, and trumps anything in the new rulebook that would make it not work.

RE: your trukk Boyz replacement comparison; I would compare it to the more expensive 'ard boyz in a trukk, as then you are comparing 4+ with 4+. Then the equivalent cost will buy you 8-9 bikers

Zhadsnark is a unique character so you couldn't take him as hq in both detatchments, so biker troops can't be had in both detatchments. :( He is awesome though. what does your second Detatchment look like? Moar bikerz?


Edit: oh dear, I've just looked at the Zhadsnark data sheet downloaded as PDF for about the billionth time and this time I noticed that he only gets a 6+ armour save! His biker toughness boost is included in his profile, and the beast doesn't say that it confers a 4+. It only says he is 'bike' type and not that he has a warbike as wargear. I'm sad now.

Your right Zhad has only a 6+, he stripped down his bike for speed!

 pocketcanoe wrote:
RE: your trukk Boyz replacement comparison; I would compare it to the more expensive 'ard boyz in a trukk, as then you are comparing 4+ with 4+. Then the equivalent cost will buy you 8-9 bikers

Zhadsnark is a unique character so you couldn't take him as hq in both detatchments, so biker troops can't be had in both detatchments. :( He is awesome though. what does your second Detatchment look like? Moar bikerz?


Edit: oh dear, I've just looked at the Zhadsnark data sheet downloaded as PDF for about the billionth time and this time I noticed that he only gets a 6+ armour save! His biker toughness boost is included in his profile, and the beast doesn't say that it confers a 4+. It only says he is 'bike' type and not that he has a warbike as wargear. I'm sad now.

Actually his rules say that an "Army" with Zhadsnark as the warlord, gets warbikes as troops choices. So while you can only take him as the HQ in your primary detachment, all the detachments in your whole army can take them as troops "if available in the army list" (so not allies, only orks).

This is if you define your army as the whole force, and not just a detachment. FW may update this eventually but for now, one Zhadsnark means any detachment can have warbike troops. I think...


Does also mean though that none of your detachments can have deff dreads, mek gunz, etc.

well this is an interersting subject for me since I just got some orks and 10 Boar Boyz are in it. Kinda trying to figure out what to do with 'em.

The Ork codex features quite a few good units and nothing in the codex is bad. Just like the last codex. It's just a matter of trying to figure out how to use them.

One thing that catches my attention though. I have heard many people talk about Harassers. I will be honest: I don't give that idea much weight. any unit that you can afford to ignore, you do, unless it gives you free movement which IS truly valuable... but its valuable to the guy attacking the "Harasser".

So can you explain to me, in a way an Ork can understand, why you'd bother with a "Harrassment" unit in an Ork army specifically?

indeed, as of now Dread Mob is legal and Zhadsnark does actually alter the whole armies bike units into troops and not only his detachment. It'll probably change, but who knows if it's even going to be this year. (Also noticed I had priced the last unit at 74pts. It's actually 79, bummer...)

 Jancoran wrote:
well this is an interersting subject for me since I just got some orks and 10 Boar Boyz are in it. Kinda trying to figure out what to do with 'em.

The Ork codex features quite a few good units and nothing in the codex is bad. Just like the last codex. It's just a matter of trying to figure out how to use them.

One thing that catches my attention though. I have heard many people talk about Harassers. I will be honest: I don't give that idea much weight. any unit that you can afford to ignore, you do, unless it gives you free movement which IS truly valuable... but its valuable to the guy attacking the "Harasser".

So can you explain to me, in a way an Ork can understand, why you'd bother with a "Harrassment" unit in an Ork army specifically?

Well, in my eyes a harasser is a unit which is relatively low-key and not as much of an immediate threat as other, larger units. Or well, this in combination with a decent damage output. They only really play a role if you icnlude several as an msu aspect to your force. Take for example 3 bikes for 54 points. They can be reserved and grab objectives late game just like minimum sized grot units (with about as much resilience). Or 10 boyz for that sake. But they are also very mobile, and average 5 S5ap5 hits a turn. Now this isn't much damage by itself, but what if you deploy two to three such units? Suddenly, the enemy has three targets he/she has to shoot at, and since most units are usually more expensive than 54 points they have to overinvest shooting to do so. And you can even use the bikes mobility to deny "suitable" firing solutions to your enemy. The upgraded harasser stems mostly from my local meta. With primarily IG, Tau and Necrons as my enemy, a combi-skorcha will ruin a unit in cover and the big choppa will wreck rear armour. This means that those 74 points units cannot be ignored. Vs marines they are not as effective, but can still pose a threat.

Harassers belong in two types of lists, really. The first is where you spam nothing but them, presenting no obvious juicy targets to your enemy but rather ensuring he can only shoot at so many targets a turn. This is a pure MSU build. The other is when you include a couple of these nuggets in a list with similar units of much greater size/threat level. If you have a biker unit of 15 + painboy, that's going to be a much larger threat than those three bikes off to the side. But if all your fire goes into whittling down the large unit, suddenly you might experience a whole unit burnt away by a skorcha out of nowhere, just because you ignored the smaller, less dangerous target in favor of the other. On the other hand, if you direct your 150-200pts unit with a potential to kill say 5-6 bikes a turn into the harasser, you might not deal enough damage to stop the bike horde.

Being a fan of death stars, the harasser fits my bill perfectly. In my latest list (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/630054.page) I have a massive biker star with 18 bikes with MFF and painboy, led by a lucky stikk warboss and Zhadsnark. This means it's super-durable and hits like a bloody train. It also has scout, fearless and skilled rider - it will be charging straight at the enemy lines. In addition to this star I will field 6 lone deffkoptas, two six-man PK biker teams and two of the small harassers I mentioned. The smaller units are easier targets, but if the star hits home it'll be pretty much GG then and there vs many enemies. So the enemy either ignores my small units and let my star roam free, or go for them and allow my other units to do their jobs effectively.

Hopefully this hasn't been too much rambling, but it's 5:40am and I should be asleep.

EDIT - To summarize harassers - they aren't supposed to be units that you can afford to ignore, but rather units with high enough damage that you don't want to ignore them but have to because there are other larger threats around, where your firepower could be better applied.

I like small MSU bike units. With a single PK they can also be good for scaring armour. You can throw a 79 pt - 3man bike unit towards some tanks just like a MANz missile, while your main bulk of force (bikes in your case) plow up the centre field.

They also function for quite a few nice little rolls, such as grabbing objectives if your playing maelstrom, blocking pathways for potential charges and they can also put out some concentrated fire when needed (as in using multiple of your small units to whittle down a larger target). Secondly at smaller unit sizes you can effectively neutralise some of the enemy shooting simply by the fact that shooting at 3 bikes gives you a maximum of removing 3 bikes.

Really like your ideas TompiQ, especially the little added combi-scorcha. Are you planning on running this soon? i'd love to hear how it gets on.