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OK so no I dont think BA's are pansies, that was just to get your attention.

However, the conundrum I am facing is how to set up my core. I really like the idea of throwing five man tactical squads in pods with a heavy flamer/combi-flamer for my mandatory troop tax. However, I am not as sold on the idea of throwing 1-2 five man assault squads in pods, once they blow their melta load they are stuck hoofing it around trying to get another shot off. With their jump packs, they can easily move and shoot or try and cap an objective.

Can someone please help me understand why everyone is putting the 5 man assault squads in pods? I understand if I did this then I can chose who comes down first. That seems to be the biggest benefit.

My problem is my flamer tacs would come down before my melta assaults, and thats an asinine logical order.

This forces me to consider other tank popping units to start on the field such as laspreds.

I am building lists for 2 upcoming tournaments, and could really use some adivce/discussion on the topic.

Thanks!

Pods allow them to not mishap and you can move after deep striking. If you use packs to deep strike your odds of being in melta range are not good seeing as average scatter is 7" and melta range is 6"

It all depends on how alpha-strikey and front-end loaded you want your list to be. The ASM melta trick is nice, although I like to run combi-melta on the sarge instead of dual inferno pistols. Any amount of terrain or bubblewrapping makes the inferno pistols useless.

So my current set up has 2 tactical sqauds, 5 man each, in pods with heavy flamer and combiflamer. 1 Fragioso in a pod all flamed up. So 3 pods, with 2 ASM squads, 5 man, with dual meltas, a combi-melta, and meltabombs.

I could turn that into 5 pods and take the packs of the ASM's, but I am not sure if the reduced mobility is worth the reduced chance of mishap/disembark move.

My issue is all my templates are coming down before my melta. I am planning on taking 1-2 laspreds so their templates may not ne for nought, but I am just indecisive if my approach is solid.

You choose which pods drop in turn 1. What's the problem?

I guess thats what I am saying. If I put them in pods, I can chose who comes first. It solves that problem but then they lose their packs for mobility. Is that opportunity cost worth it?

The flip side is my ASM's deepstrike in turn 2+ and I drop 2 template pods turn 1 and pray to the dice gods that either A) My opponent has exposed infantry, or B) my preds can pop a transport to expose some.

 Rezyn wrote:
I guess thats what I am saying. If I put them in pods, I can chose who comes first. It solves that problem but then they lose their packs for mobility. Is that opportunity cost worth it?

The flip side is my ASM's deepstrike in turn 2+ and I drop 2 template pods turn 1 and pray to the dice gods that either A) My opponent has exposed infantry, or B) my preds can pop a transport to expose some.

I never deep strike jump pack ASM. Even with Dante, I wouldn't. I only reserve things in pods, very cheap obj sec troops in fast transports, or units I have to reserve. Currently, my lists only drop pod Fragiosos. I use MM attack bikes and lascannons to pop armor.

Its absolutely worth it. Blood angel ASMs have arguably the best podded melta around. Its so cheap its almost criminal. Think of them as a 50 pt tac squad with access to triple meltas.. to put it into perspective.

Trading JPs might lose you mobility later, IF they survive retaliation, but in return you get superior flexibility and 2 extra 'units' in the drop pods essentially. This is pretty much always better since everything scores this edition. You could always put a deawthwind launcher in there as well.

To me the main upside of the jumps besides mobility after arrival is the much smaller footprint. Coupled with DoA this can let them reach wrapped places that pods simply cannot fit.

Otoh they are also extremely vulnerable to blasts of any sort.

Take the pods.

"Blood angel ASMs have arguably the best podded melta around."

Grey Hunters still make them look foolish.

Martel732 wrote:
"Blood angel ASMs have arguably the best podded melta around."

Grey Hunters still make them look foolish.

Really? Please elaborate because I don't remember seeing a triple melta pod squad in SW for 115.

You are assuming that triple melta is the end all be all.

Given the changes to vehicle damage, I'm not sure this is the case. In fact, I'm not sure it's worth doing at all unless you know you are facing super heavies that can't be effectively bubblewrapped.

Grey hunters drop in with double specials and pack extra CCWs and counter attack. Typically, when marines do their cute drop garbage, I just use my assault elements to wipe them up. Being assaulted is particularly bad for BA,who lose all their assault bonuses. SW, on the other hand, fight just as well when assaulted. They are much harder to deal with than 5 BA ASM who can't assault.

Enough elaboration?

Yeah, the free pod is kind of crazy.

Mavnas wrote:
Yeah, the free pod is kind of crazy.

Not really. The vanilla marines can field lists three times more dangerous than the BA, and SW two times more dangerous. TWC are better than anything in the BA, I think.

Im starting to see the pod argument here and agree it does have its merits.

Martel, if you dont pod your troops what do you take them in? razorbacks? I was considering that as an alternative to podding 5 man tac squads, but I am just not sure the AV11 can last past turn 1 and then they are hoofin it to an objective, if they can make it.

Pods just seemed like a sure thing to try and get them right on one or close.

I really like the extra firepower of the razors, but I just feel it is really heavily dependant on getting first turn, or being able to hide them well.

Martel732 wrote:
You are assuming that triple melta is the end all be all.

Given the changes to vehicle damage, I'm not sure this is the case. In fact, I'm not sure it's worth doing at all unless you know you are facing super heavies that can't be effectively bubblewrapped.

Grey hunters drop in with double specials and pack extra CCWs and counter attack. Typically, when marines do their cute drop garbage, I just use my assault elements to wipe them up. Being assaulted is particularly bad for BA,who lose all their assault bonuses. SW, on the other hand, fight just as well when assaulted. They are much harder to deal with than 5 BA ASM who can't assault.

Enough elaboration?

No. I'm saying BA have the best podded melta. That was all. The debate on how relevant melta is wasn't anything I even touched on. I play SW too have for years. GHs are a great troops choice, fully tooled they can be a force but the cost is much much higher. They also pay for pods pay for serg equivalent and can't access 2 specials outside of a full pack at which point they are inflexible without combat squads.

My comment above was made regarding podded melta squads specifically and I stand by it.

Yeah, I use 5 man tac squads in razor backs, sniper scouts, HTH scouts for troops.

I can always hide my razors behind preds if I need to. Also, many lists can't reach out past 36" very well. That's why I like lascannons a lot. I've won a couple games by disabling all their ranged firepower and then running away. The coward angels from 6th live on!

Drop pods don't let me run away if I need to. There are too many lists out there I don't WANT to drop on top of, and drop pods take away my flexibility, because you are committed to foot slogging once they land.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dominuschao wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
You are assuming that triple melta is the end all be all.

Given the changes to vehicle damage, I'm not sure this is the case. In fact, I'm not sure it's worth doing at all unless you know you are facing super heavies that can't be effectively bubblewrapped.

Grey hunters drop in with double specials and pack extra CCWs and counter attack. Typically, when marines do their cute drop garbage, I just use my assault elements to wipe them up. Being assaulted is particularly bad for BA,who lose all their assault bonuses. SW, on the other hand, fight just as well when assaulted. They are much harder to deal with than 5 BA ASM who can't assault.

Enough elaboration?

No. I'm saying BA have the best podded melta. That was all. The debate on how relevant melta is wasn't anything I even touched on. I play SW too have for years. GHs are a great troops choice, fully tooled they can be a force but the cost is much much higher. They also pay for pods pay for serg equivalent and can't access 2 specials outside of a full pack at which point they are inflexible without combat squads.

My comment above was made regarding podded melta squads specifically and I stand by it.

I was talking over all efficacy. I'm not sure I consider a FA slot worth it for a single turn of melta shooting. And you are throwing away the five marines as well. So while BA ASM might do it the best, is it worth doing at all? I mean you can't scratch a Riptide's paint with four melta shots.

how do you load them out in razors if you dont mind me asking? cheap dirty and naked or with some upgrades? if so, what kinds?

Different tangent here, but if you are struggling to get milage out of your tac squads I'd suggest taking scouts.

I was talking over all efficacy. I'm not sure I consider a FA slot worth it for a single turn of melta shooting. And you are throwing away the five marines as well. So while BA ASM might do it the best, is it worth doing at all? I mean you can't scratch a Riptide's paint with four melta shots.

Agreed and this is a question the OP needs to evaluate. I think were operating under the assumption he does need the melta and now its just the delivery mechanism.

I personally feel theres quite a bit of potential in las/plas preds and even tri las preds which are kinda under the radar atm.

 Rezyn wrote:
how do you load them out in razors if you dont mind me asking? cheap dirty and naked or with some upgrades? if so, what kinds?

Various ways. Primarily plasma/combi-plas in a las/plas razor. But I also use combi-flamer/heavy flamer in a TL HF razor back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dominuschao wrote:

I was talking over all efficacy. I'm not sure I consider a FA slot worth it for a single turn of melta shooting. And you are throwing away the five marines as well. So while BA ASM might do it the best, is it worth doing at all? I mean you can't scratch a Riptide's paint with four melta shots.

Agreed and this is a question the OP needs to evaluate. I think were operating under the assumption he does need the melta and now its just the delivery mechanism.

I personally feel theres quite a bit of potential in las/plas preds and even tri las preds which are kinda under the radar atm.

Despite the price increase, I still really like MM attack bikes. 24" ST 8 AP 1 has so many uses on a bike platform.

I find the best choice is a plas/combi plas in a HB rzr. Good anti infantry with a little anti armr/heavy infantry. Trying anything nastier gets above a Tac squads pay grade. All flamer loadout with tl hf razor is a little too redundant for me. The HBs on the razor are almost as good for anti infantry and has alot more reach, including a little anti air.

Martel732 wrote:


I was talking over all efficacy. I'm not sure I consider a FA slot worth it for a single turn of melta shooting. And you are throwing away the five marines as well. So while BA ASM might do it the best, is it worth doing at all? I mean you can't scratch a Riptide's paint with four melta shots.

If you're shooting meltaguns at a riptide, you're doing it wrong. It'd be much more useful to go after a Tau force's crisis suits or vehicles with melta. If you really wanna kill a riptide you know what you can do? ASM in a pod with plasma! As for the slot argument there are plenty of ways around that. It seems that you just really want to bash BA without listening to any of their merits. 115 pts for 5 marines, 2 melta and a combi melta in a pod is good. There's just no way around that. No they don't kill everything they look at, but they're cheap enough to take multiples. Yes they might die fairly easily at that range, but that's what marines do in this edition. Any shots going into them aren't being directed at your DC or Sang Guard or whatever else you might be bringing. If you want to play them a little more conservatively land at the very edge of a flank, or drop onto an objective. They're not ObSec, but a lot of things aren't. The drop pod sitting on an objective might well force your opponent to waste shots into it or concede that objective to you.

And to OP, the tactical flexibility of choosing what to drop first will be a great boon to you. Sometimes it makes a lot of sense to pod the flamers first, mostly when you need to remove bubblewrap so you can reach the juicier targets.

I've been thinking - I pay a lot of points to infiltrate 3 chosen squads with cypher for my CSM and its a usually pretty decent tactic. Now ASM in a pod may only have 2 specs and a combi rather than 5 specs, but they are CONSIDERABLY cheaper and have even greater choice of placement than the chosen have.
And if you consider them in a similar role as a tac squad - well there are only 2 boltpistols that aren't bolters, and you get an extra spec. The downside is they are not taking up a compulsory troops slot. 125pts for 2 plasma and a combi may be a good objective holder. Especially if you also invest in a deathwind.

"Any shots going into them aren't being directed at your DC or Sang Guard or whatever else you might be bringing"

Not true in practice. The podded units will eat the firepower that don't have the range to engage the rest of the list.

"115 pts for 5 marines, 2 melta and a combi melta in a pod is good. There's just no way around that"

Unless a player doesn't find their role worthy of 115 pts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Marine wrote:
I find the best choice is a plas/combi plas in a HB rzr. Good anti infantry with a little anti armr/heavy infantry. Trying anything nastier gets above a Tac squads pay grade. All flamer loadout with tl hf razor is a little too redundant for me. The HBs on the razor are almost as good for anti infantry and has alot more reach, including a little anti air.

HB are trash. Spring for the AP 2 guns or go with TL HF.

I'm always a fan of the Las/Plas Razorback. In addition to giving you solid AP2, fast w/ BA gives you a greater threat distance and better maneuvering to get side shots. Additionally, the Las/Plasback is more resilient to fire as the Las and TL Plas count as two separate weapons for the sake of 'Weapon Destroyed' results as opposed to a TL HB, TL HF, or TL Las which count as a single weapon.