Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi

I've been a bit out of the loop with Games Workshop as of late, I haven't made a purchase for a while and instead have mainly been buying Mierce and Kyte models. Because of this I haven't really been paying attention to GW nor have I been on the forums a lot, mainly just buying stuff purely to assemble and paint, or been battling with the house rules me and my friends use.

So coming back yesterday to DakkaDakka (to help promote a friend's up coming wargame) I was surprised to hear, both from him and from the news topics that Warhammer Fantasty Battle Edition 9 is rumored and there's some very weird stuff going on.

From what I've heard, GW's in dire financial troubles and is trying to change Fantasy to sell better. The end times is the lead into this, the lore is going to change enormously, and a lot of models are going to be on round bases (I do not approve of this myself)

I've heard the ranges of products are changing a lot and that we're likely going to get Fantasy space marines (eww).

But beyond what I've said I really struggle to grasp precisely what's going on, for example are we losing factions or lots of models (and thus as a collector as much as a gamer, should I stock up on a bunch of models before they go OOP? And if so, what needs saving?)

tl;dr I'm struggling to understand what's going on, would someone be kind enough to try and explain?

Thank you

The truth is we really don't know. If you've read the rumours, and have followed gw's business practices for the last decade or so, it seems likely (to me at least). As for what you should do, only you can decide that. If you're worried that models will go OOP and you want them, you should probably buy them. We don't have the information to tell what (if any) models will be squatted, it is all guesswork, rumours and track record at this point.

Best to keep track of the rumours in their respective thread.

The worst of it is, as crazy as some of the rumours may seem, GW's actions lately have made even the most bat-crap crazy ideas seem plausible

It's all going to be fabulous. Don't waste time questioning it - just leave your credit card details (and the details of everybody you know) on a scrap of paper somewhere in Lenton. Your workshop needs you!

Essentialy sales are at an all time low and all bets are off. In a last ditch effort to save the franchise after almost a decade of missmanagement and neglet GW is relaunching an entire different game with keeping only the same name. If you are about to buy in, i would wait till April when the new edition launchs.

THE END IS NIGH

Seriously: I don't think anyone actually knows right now. A new edition has been "around the corner" for almost two years now, and the latest round of rumors sounds completely off the wall and different. If I thought GW listened to anyone or did market research, I would think they were leaking some of these ideas as a kind of trial balloon. I used to be relatively confident that we would probably get a new ed with only minor changes, but now it seems like anything is possible.

And, as a collector, you can bet that if the rumors are even 50 percent true, you'll be able to pick up a lot of people's armies on e-bay.

It's really a shame, because I feel like End Times has done a lot to revitalize interest in the line, and they're just gonna flush it all down the toilet.

I don't know if they are in "dire financial troubles." While sales are down they are making millions of pounds in profits.

I also would not say sales are at an all time low. I am pretty sure sales were lower back in 2009 and way back in the day on their climb to the top.

Sorry I just can stand untrue statements. Yes GW sales are down, its not a good sign but I don't think its the end of the world. As long as their cash flow is solvent they can continue to do business. They have NO DEBT and are making millions in profits.

We don't have the data on sales of individual product lines to know how well fantasy is selling. All I know is I like that they are shaking up the fantasy world and changing some lore. Then again I always thought fantasy lore sucked and I get tired of reading the same fluff edition after edition.

So I would not panic, GW is not going anywhere tomorrow. They do need to fix themselves as if this trend continues I could seem them being in trouble in 5 years.

It will be too late in 5 years. The problem is that GW isn't like a lot of other companies as it's part of the tabletop gaming industry. GW formerly had a pretty-much monopoly on tabletop gaming and went from a well-liked producer of miniature(s) (games) to a company with a terrible reputation and lots of customers (as can be seen in the data) turning their backs on them and moving on to other games. Those other games are far smaller in comparison, no doubt, but the problem for GW is that they can only rely on their size and wide-spread availabilty. If the current trend continues, then in 5 years, GW will be too deep in a downwards spiral and can no longer counter-react.

GW keeps alienating core customers and solely aims at new players. It's a viable strategy, but only if you have a huge lead. The problem with the former is that once you lose said huge advantage over your competitors, you need to rely on your long-term customers - and GW loses those at an alarming rate as they purposefully alienate them...us.

I don't have a problem with this...at all. It's their decision and they should go with what they think they should. I vote with my wallet...and we have gone back to playing 4th 40k.

I am highly interested in seeing where GW goes and I'd love to peek in the future. And if I am honest...I would like to see them burn.

...and Matt Ward first, of course.

Actually sales this past half-year were about 5m below what they were in the first half of 2009.

It's all rumour at the moment, but the rumours state that:

- Fantasy is downsizing, both in terms of number of factions (many armies being pooled together) and size of games

- Some/all models will switch to round bases and the game will develop into a more skirmish-style

- A lot of the range will be discontinued

- There may still be something which says "you can play 8th edition still" in the rules

All to try and avert a financial crisis within GW, apparently.

It's mostly rumourmongering and doomsaying at the moment, but that's the jist of it.

 winterwind85 wrote:

Someone photoshop Kirby's face on that meteor and add some WHFB to those HHHobbyist's shirts!

I started to, but I didn't want to get sued.

And I just got an awesome old style 6th ed Dwarf Army...

So like this dude who like no one's heard of since 1996 cept to laugh at him comes out of @#$%ing nowhere and totally nukes the @#$% out of everyone who doesn't have an army book and everyone is all like holy @#$% and then these big sloogy godzillas come down from the chaos wastes and #$%^ everyone up and then @#$% happens to the elfs but no one gives a #$$% cause they didn't get any awesome new models not even a new avatar which would be #$%#ing awesome cause you could use it in 40k and then the skaven like go all ape-^$%# over everyone and then that guy on the spikey horse shows up and does stuff but no one knows what the #$%# he did cause they only printed 10 books and shipped them all to %#$@ing Albania or some #$%^.

I think that about sums it up.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
So like this dude who like no one's heard of since 1996 cept to laugh at him comes out of @#$%ing nowhere and totally nukes the @#$% out of everyone who doesn't have an army book and everyone is all like holy @#$% and then these big sloogy godzillas come down from the chaos wastes and #$%^ everyone up and then @#$% happens to the elfs but no one gives a #$$% cause they didn't get any awesome new models not even a new avatar which would be #$%#ing awesome cause you could use it in 40k and then the skaven like go all ape-^$%# over everyone and then that guy on the spikey horse shows up and does stuff but no one knows what the #$%# he did cause they only printed 10 books and shipped them all to %#$@ing Albania or some #$%^.

I think that about sums it up.

I'll take another pint of bitters, please.

A term that my girlfriend used was Warhammer: the Crappening.

The Auld Grump

I sense the End Times will provide me with months and months of wonderful new sigs.

I just wonder WOTC's D&D 4th DESTROYED the D&D universe, fluff of several worlds, beloved characters, etc. (even if 4th as a rule system wasn't 'that' bad)

It did have the positive effect of making Paizo's Pathfinder become the crème of the crop. Keeping what worked, simplifying and refining what needed it. And your D&D investments could be used with their products just fine. (Not to mention rulebooks and supplements with 'sane' pricing.)

So....Warhammer goes the way of the dodo...who becomes this game's Pathfinder? Kings of War? Cause the winner will be the smart guy that makes it so ANY Warhammer model can be used for their table top fantasy wargame.


Edit: And when do you think GW will realize how stupid they've been and back pedal to patch up the damage a la D&D 5th?

Another Edit: Remember, remember the folly that was...New Coke.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Cause the winner will be the smart guy that makes it so ANY Warhammer model can be used for their table top fantasy wargame.

It's another topic (see WHFB Discussions) but I can name four existing ones off the top of my head.

I don't think GW care about their fanbase like WOTC did or else they'd have attempted to fix it not make it worse.

I loved Fantasy, played it for 12 or so years but... it just gets worse and worse and, it's really time to part ways I think, with it...(and by extension GW since I don't have any 40k armies left)...

Listen, you know I love you, but I just can't take this,
You know I love you, but I'm playing for keeps,
Although I need you, I'm not gonna make this,
You know I want to, but I'm in too deep.

Why is that song oddly fitting to this?

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
I just wonder WOTC's D&D 4th DESTROYED the D&D universe, fluff of several worlds, beloved characters, etc. (even if 4th as a rule system wasn't 'that' bad)

It did have the positive effect of making Paizo's Pathfinder become the crème of the crop. Keeping what worked, simplifying and refining what needed it. And your D&D investments could be used with their products just fine. (Not to mention rulebooks and supplements with 'sane' pricing.)

So....Warhammer goes the way of the dodo...who becomes this game's Pathfinder? Kings of War? Cause the winner will be the smart guy that makes it so ANY Warhammer model can be used for their table top fantasy wargame.


Edit: And when do you think GW will realize how stupid they've been and back pedal to patch up the damage a la D&D 5th?

Another Edit: Remember, remember the folly that was...New Coke.

The thing is that Coke did do market research, including taste tests.

New Coke failed in spite of the evidence - in part because Coke underestimated brand loyalty. (Which is a chunk of what happened with D&D 4e as well - WotC underestimated how much folks were invested in the older editions of the game. 'Let's make a new edition that is so incompatible with our old system that we tell people to start over! Heck, it's so incompatible that we will completely change our most popular setting to fit the system!' For some reason this did not go over well with folks that had played through three or more editions that were at least related enough to allow conversion.)

The closest that Warhammer 40K has had was the shift from second edition to third.

For Warhammer Fantasy... maybe the shift between third edition (my favorite) to fourth? Though it seems like the suck really started setting hard in with eighth, I really hate that having entire armies skipped during the lifespan of an edition became the norm around sixth.

The Auld Grump

It reminds me more of the DC 'new 52' reboot and the Star Trek reboot.

When you have fans with literally decades invested in your fictional universe, many will see a reboot as a jumping off point.

I know for me both of those reboots ended my emotional attachment.

ST at least has kept their original 'verse around in games, novels etc but I still think the New 52 was pants on the head stupid.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It reminds me more of the DC 'new 52' reboot and the Star Trek reboot.

When you have fans with literally decades invested in your fictional universe, many will see a reboot as a jumping off point.

I know for me both of those reboots ended my emotional attachment.

ST at least has kept their original 'verse around in games, novels etc but I still think the New 52 was pants on the head stupid.

2015 will be the year of the reboot. Marvel just announce the Marvel Universe as we know it will end in May!

Didn't they also announce that they were making Thor a woman too?

Oh, they did. With a big ol' boob-plate and everything.

And guess what: Even with the New 52 and that inspired stunt, comic readership, like GW player...uhm...ship, continues to fall.

They're like, er, three peas in a pod, Marvel, DC, and GW. Going into decline for long years, but seemingly without a clue how to halt it, beyond ridiculous shakeups and events, and farming out the IP for screen adaptations. No idea that at least part of their problem might be fixed by actual good writing and less strangulating prices.

(fun fact: The vast majority of results for 'Thor' on google image search are Chris Hemsworth. You have to go to about page 14 before one pic of Lady Thor turns up.)

Damn, there are a few fantasy models I really want to get my hands, specifically the Chaos Lord and Warriors on Juggernauts. Do you guys think they might go OOP?

One of the tricks used to boost sales in the past was to announce a price increase was coming. It worked for me, as I would buy lots of stuff I might want in the future at the lower price. I think by telling folks that models are going OOP it will motivate people to buy things before they are gone. I started to feel manipulated after a while and stopped buying just before the price hike. Then I stopped buying completely.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

Edit: And when do you think GW will realize how stupid they've been and back pedal to patch up the damage a la D&D 5th?

I don't know that they care too much what people do with their miniatures. They just want them to buy them. I don't think it matters if people use GW models with other games. That's how Citadel started all those years ago, making models for D&D and other games. They'll miss the revenue from their $100 rule books and $50 army books of course. But I don't know that they will care enough to try and figure out what people want and redo fantasy again to regain players. They seem to be trying to move away from gaming and into collectibles.

Another Edit: Remember, remember the folly that was...New Coke.

New Coke was a resounding success everywhere around the world except the US where the idea of Coca Cola as a holy artifact of Americana spoiled the party. You buy a Coke in Europe you're getting New Coke. You can't even tell the difference unless you do a side by side taste test.

 calamarialldayerrday wrote:
Damn, there are a few fantasy models I really want to get my hands, specifically the Chaos Lord and Warriors on Juggernauts. Do you guys think they might go OOP?

No.

If its already in plastic it will be made for years yet.

The Lord is Resin.