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I can't speak for him, but I've had some mental sighs reading this. The thing is, at this point, the answer to the question "How do I beat this?" is "You don't." When people pointed out that he was cheating, you explained how he cheated and the amount of effort to get him to stop, rather than work with suggested strategies to stop the cheating. When they said that playing with someone like that is a poor choice, you said he's your only choice.
There's two perspectives to this, the strategic and the social. From the social perspective, unless this person is doing amazing things for your happiness in other situations, he's not your friend. He's your bully. He puts you in a situation where he can socially smack you around, intimidates you into compliance, and keeps you in awe of his nonexistent armybuilding/WH40K tactical skills. If he's the only person you would qualify as a close personal friend, then at least one sigh is this: you don't have any close personal friends that you acknowledge. I sincerely hope that you have some people in your life-- even if they don't play Warhammer 40K and might tempt you away from the hobby (or at least into diversions of time)-- that you can build bridges with, because this sort of thing is going to have you keep asking 'why' then coming up with Reasons when people explain solutions that don't fit into continued association with your bully.
From the strategic, there is no strategy (other than "cheat more" or "beg Games Workshop Employees for rules that work only for you", I guess) that's going to win if you let him define the context under which you play. If he determines the terrain, the validity of most rules, how rules interact... if he "relies" on other people for the rules but then arbitrates how they can be used, if he can openly violate rules-- secret lists are not OK-- then he is going to win barring an absurd amount of bad luck, at which point he will tell you that it didn't count because it was just luck.
Of course, from the flipside to that, it sounds like this guy has never actually beaten you. Played without One Eye Open? Refused to permit table terrain? Refused to exchange sheets? Doesn't have the rules for reference? All of those fall under "cheating" which functionally is a forfeit. So at least your win record is actually the better, even if it doesn't feel that way.
To put it another way, Sun Tzu and other strategists did advise that under most circumstances you should try to place your forces in the most advantageous arrangement possible relative to terrain, your opponent in the weakest, to conceal from your enemy, etc. But Warhammer 40K assumes that both parties are meeting on more or less equal ground-- what's sometimes called Death Ground or Deadly Ground depending-- where there is no choice but to fight and neither side can claim an immediate, overwhelming advantage in the press of numbers, position, equipment, and so on-- or at least it tries to, legendary poorly thought out rules aside. If he's determining that context, your bully isn't playing Warhammer 40K (and hence, neither are you).
If you want to give him more chances, rather than seek out other friendships or perhaps even other hobbies (which can be depressing, expensive in both cash and energy, etc. so I can kind of understand), you have to take more control of the situation; functionally, you have to risk losing interaction with him to see whether or not he can become a friend rather than a bully. Start putting it bluntly in terms of game balance. If he wants to nix terrain as 'crap' - fine, but he gets to pay a 100 point handicap, either in his points lost or in twice that you gain per terrain piece less than 6 on the table. He wants to keep his list secret? Okay, that's a new special ability he's paying 100 points for or giving you 200 points for. If he's going to hobble you, the only fair thing, the only way you get any chance at all, is if there is some compensation. He doesn't want to "bother" with having the rules the way the rules, you know, require? Handicap, and you get a +1 to the dice off (which he can't dismiss) on arguing the rules. And the first time he says "the internet lies" or "I don't like playing it that way," you tell him you're taking 3 victory points plus one for every additional time after he tries that without actual rules to back it up.
If he won't? Or if he still tries to cheat? Then he not only isn't your friend, but he isn't going to be.
Verviedi wrote:
Which is a shame because smooth, warm rocks are nice to hold against your cheek.
Relevant to the topic, I am selling my IG and possibly Necrons, depending on the viability of the new codex.
Is there any army that can wreck this guy? I am not really interested in Eldar or Tyranids, and Daemon are hard to paint.
I can't speak for him, but I've had some mental sighs reading this. The thing is, at this point, the answer to the question "How do I beat this?" is "You don't." When people pointed out that he was cheating, you explained how he cheated and the amount of effort to get him to stop, rather than work with suggested strategies to stop the cheating. When they said that playing with someone like that is a poor choice, you said he's your only choice.
There's two perspectives to this, the strategic and the social. From the social perspective, unless this person is doing amazing things for your happiness in other situations, he's not your friend. He's your bully. He puts you in a situation where he can socially smack you around, intimidates you into compliance, and keeps you in awe of his nonexistent armybuilding/WH40K tactical skills. If he's the only person you would qualify as a close personal friend, then at least one sigh is this: you don't have any close personal friends that you acknowledge. I sincerely hope that you have some people in your life-- even if they don't play Warhammer 40K and might tempt you away from the hobby (or at least into diversions of time)-- that you can build bridges with, because this sort of thing is going to have you keep asking 'why' then coming up with Reasons when people explain solutions that don't fit into continued association with your bully.
From the strategic, there is no strategy (other than "cheat more" or "beg Games Workshop Employees for rules that work only for you", I guess) that's going to win if you let him define the context under which you play. If he determines the terrain, the validity of most rules, how rules interact... if he "relies" on other people for the rules but then arbitrates how they can be used, if he can openly violate rules-- secret lists are not OK-- then he is going to win barring an absurd amount of bad luck, at which point he will tell you that it didn't count because it was just luck.
Of course, from the flipside to that, it sounds like this guy has never actually beaten you. Played without One Eye Open? Refused to permit table terrain? Refused to exchange sheets? Doesn't have the rules for reference? All of those fall under "cheating" which functionally is a forfeit. So at least your win record is actually the better, even if it doesn't feel that way.
To put it another way, Sun Tzu and other strategists did advise that under most circumstances you should try to place your forces in the most advantageous arrangement possible relative to terrain, your opponent in the weakest, to conceal from your enemy, etc. But Warhammer 40K assumes that both parties are meeting on more or less equal ground-- what's sometimes called Death Ground or Deadly Ground depending-- where there is no choice but to fight and neither side can claim an immediate, overwhelming advantage in the press of numbers, position, equipment, and so on-- or at least it tries to, legendary poorly thought out rules aside. If he's determining that context, your bully isn't playing Warhammer 40K (and hence, neither are you).
If you want to give him more chances, rather than seek out other friendships or perhaps even other hobbies (which can be depressing, expensive in both cash and energy, etc. so I can kind of understand), you have to take more control of the situation; functionally, you have to risk losing interaction with him to see whether or not he can become a friend rather than a bully. Start putting it bluntly in terms of game balance. If he wants to nix terrain as 'crap' - fine, but he gets to pay a 100 point handicap, either in his points lost or in twice that you gain per terrain piece less than 6 on the table. He wants to keep his list secret? Okay, that's a new special ability he's paying 100 points for or giving you 200 points for. If he's going to hobble you, the only fair thing, the only way you get any chance at all, is if there is some compensation. He doesn't want to "bother" with having the rules the way the rules, you know, require? Handicap, and you get a +1 to the dice off (which he can't dismiss) on arguing the rules. And the first time he says "the internet lies" or "I don't like playing it that way," you tell him you're taking 3 victory points plus one for every additional time after he tries that without actual rules to back it up.
If he won't? Or if he still tries to cheat? Then he not only isn't your friend, but he isn't going to be.
It's not that you did something wrong, its that you keep asking if there is something to beat this guy?
What the above poster said; short story is you'll never beat this guy. So sell your armies, buy another army, spend even more time and effort into something you can't win.
Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.
Verviedi wrote:
Which is a shame because smooth, warm rocks are nice to hold against your cheek.
Relevant to the topic, I am selling my IG and possibly Necrons, depending on the viability of the new codex.
Is there any army that can wreck this guy? I am not really interested in Eldar or Tyranids, and Daemon are hard to paint.
I can't speak for him, but I've had some mental sighs reading this. The thing is, at this point, the answer to the question "How do I beat this?" is "You don't." When people pointed out that he was cheating, you explained how he cheated and the amount of effort to get him to stop, rather than work with suggested strategies to stop the cheating. When they said that playing with someone like that is a poor choice, you said he's your only choice.
There's two perspectives to this, the strategic and the social. From the social perspective, unless this person is doing amazing things for your happiness in other situations, he's not your friend. He's your bully. He puts you in a situation where he can socially smack you around, intimidates you into compliance, and keeps you in awe of his nonexistent armybuilding/WH40K tactical skills. If he's the only person you would qualify as a close personal friend, then at least one sigh is this: you don't have any close personal friends that you acknowledge. I sincerely hope that you have some people in your life-- even if they don't play Warhammer 40K and might tempt you away from the hobby (or at least into diversions of time)-- that you can build bridges with, because this sort of thing is going to have you keep asking 'why' then coming up with Reasons when people explain solutions that don't fit into continued association with your bully.
From the strategic, there is no strategy (other than "cheat more" or "beg Games Workshop Employees for rules that work only for you", I guess) that's going to win if you let him define the context under which you play. If he determines the terrain, the validity of most rules, how rules interact... if he "relies" on other people for the rules but then arbitrates how they can be used, if he can openly violate rules-- secret lists are not OK-- then he is going to win barring an absurd amount of bad luck, at which point he will tell you that it didn't count because it was just luck.
Of course, from the flipside to that, it sounds like this guy has never actually beaten you. Played without One Eye Open? Refused to permit table terrain? Refused to exchange sheets? Doesn't have the rules for reference? All of those fall under "cheating" which functionally is a forfeit. So at least your win record is actually the better, even if it doesn't feel that way.
To put it another way, Sun Tzu and other strategists did advise that under most circumstances you should try to place your forces in the most advantageous arrangement possible relative to terrain, your opponent in the weakest, to conceal from your enemy, etc. But Warhammer 40K assumes that both parties are meeting on more or less equal ground-- what's sometimes called Death Ground or Deadly Ground depending-- where there is no choice but to fight and neither side can claim an immediate, overwhelming advantage in the press of numbers, position, equipment, and so on-- or at least it tries to, legendary poorly thought out rules aside. If he's determining that context, your bully isn't playing Warhammer 40K (and hence, neither are you).
If you want to give him more chances, rather than seek out other friendships or perhaps even other hobbies (which can be depressing, expensive in both cash and energy, etc. so I can kind of understand), you have to take more control of the situation; functionally, you have to risk losing interaction with him to see whether or not he can become a friend rather than a bully. Start putting it bluntly in terms of game balance. If he wants to nix terrain as 'crap' - fine, but he gets to pay a 100 point handicap, either in his points lost or in twice that you gain per terrain piece less than 6 on the table. He wants to keep his list secret? Okay, that's a new special ability he's paying 100 points for or giving you 200 points for. If he's going to hobble you, the only fair thing, the only way you get any chance at all, is if there is some compensation. He doesn't want to "bother" with having the rules the way the rules, you know, require? Handicap, and you get a +1 to the dice off (which he can't dismiss) on arguing the rules. And the first time he says "the internet lies" or "I don't like playing it that way," you tell him you're taking 3 victory points plus one for every additional time after he tries that without actual rules to back it up.
If he won't? Or if he still tries to cheat? Then he not only isn't your friend, but he isn't going to be.
It's not that you did something wrong, its that you keep asking if there is something to beat this guy?
What the above poster said; short story is you'll never beat this guy. So sell your armies, buy another army, spend even more time and effort into something you can't win.
I've already played Nids and Eldar.
My collection situation is this:
Eldar- Sold (Fully Painted)
Tyranids- Almost Sold. I have 2 Flyrants, a ton of Gaunts, a Tervigon, and a Carnifex left if anyone wants to buy them. (Fully Painted)
IG- Selling as soon as I get the money from my buyers (Fully Painted)
Necrons- Selling if new dex is crap (Fully Painted)
SM- All-Terminator army. (Almost halfway to Fully Painted)
His collection:
SM- Sold a year ago (A quarter painted)
Tyranids- Sold (Primed and half-Painted)
Tau- Selling. Fire Warrior Focused (Unpainted)
GK- Nemesis Vanguard + Terminator Libby (Unpainted)
Orks- Unbound Walker Spam. (All Kans are solo so a single unit can't shoot at more than one) (Unpainted)
CSM- Mech/Random. (Unpainted)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/28 16:15:27
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
Can a thread be locked solely on the basis of an OPs refusal to listen?
Seriously though, since you only seem to read or reply to bullet points I will try and sum up some of the better advice here which you are sorely in need of following:
1) You cannot beat your 'friend' if he cheats and refuses to play in the spirit of the game.
2) Buy rules + Read Rules + Use Rules in games = happy balanced (ish) gaming experience.
3) If he wont comply, there must be other people to play at your FLGS. It cannot survive on you and your 'friends' patronage alone
4) Stop selling armies. You will regret it in years to come, and they are not the basis of your Issues. You cannot buy victory over your 'friend'.
5) Don't be so obsessed with 'winning'. Your opponent probably thrives off your pain and anguish, and you will never love the hobby if it is all you care about.
Just for fun I am going to preempt your responses below:
Verviedi wrote: 1) He wont listen as he thinks the rulebook is lies from the interweb, and he doesn't like the format / cover art / page numbering / binding
2) Too expensive
3) Only three guys play at my FLGS on the day we go (presume Saturday?), and they don't like the way we smell
4) I am only selling the armies I cannot win with / are crap.
5) I'm not obsessed with winning.
To which, I will further respond in an effort to moves things along and save time / my breath / the will to live.
1) This is the only way to rehabilitate your 'friend' in 40K. If he still refuses, I would suggest that he may be entering foil hat territory and your efforts are futile
2) You have bought and sold whole fully-painted armies (something I have only managed once in 30 years!) but cannot afford to buy a second hand rulebook (or even go online and find a free copy.....)
3) Cannot possibly be true. More people must play / buy there or it would go under. Look on social media, post on the shop message board, go on Sunday or a weeknight and find other people. Give us the store name and we will find you more ways to meet other players.
4) If you cannot win with Eldar/Tyranids/Necrons then you might as well give up. Also, how do you know the new crons dex is crap? It is not even out and you have already decided to sell your army?
5) Yes you are, I too have read most of your posts (mainly for the lulz) and it is the one overriding theme that comes through in all of them. I suspect you might be WAAC player in the making, but it is not too late for you my son..... you can still turn away from the dark side...
If none of this works for you, then I think you need to take a break away from 40K of about... 10 years. That's what I did - I followed this advice when I was about 14
Desubot wrote: Perhaps its time to put the toys away, work out, get a chick and go party. dont miss out on that childhood
I packed all my models away in the attic, went out and got a life for 15 years - messed around in school, went to uni, traveled, met my wife, had a family - and then one day passed a FLGS and popped in for a bit of nostalgia. Two days later I was pulling all my (now very rare) rouge trader stuff out of the attic and was right back into it. The difference was that this time I was much more confident and comfortable with myself as a person and had no problem meeting other like minded people to play with. I remember the horror of playing against other immature pre-pubescent teens, and am forever glad I got away from it before it killed my love for the hobby. Perhaps you need to do likewise.
And if not, this really is the only real course of action left to you
Solar Shock wrote: Next game, dont bring any models, bring a box of cheese. Some stilton, cheddar and maybe some pamasean. Put them in your deployment zone and when he asks what they are tell him there your Imperial Knights, or your wave spam list, whatever you want your flavour of cheese to be. When he complains; ask him where his rulebook is. If he don't want to play then say lets go home. When he does play, Cheat, lie and annhilate him, tell him that your D str weapons actually allow you to bring a mallet and hit his units, whatever breaks is whats dead. When he complains ask him to prove its not a rule with "his" rulebook. At the end of the game as he sits there crying, casually walk over to him, push him to his knees, gently cup his chin and lift his head so you can see his salty tears streaming down his face and tell him he is now your she-dog and this is his life from now on.
Which, Solar Shock, is brilliant
If in doubt, frag it out...
Fight spam with spam, cheese with cheese, and fluff with a razor sharp sense of the appropriate
I like Solar's reply.
Completely different note, but I am going to a Kill Team tourney on Saturday.
Any tips for Kill Team in general? I have no idea what to bring.
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
Iapedus wrote: Can a thread be locked solely on the basis of an OPs refusal to listen?
Seriously though, since you only seem to read or reply to bullet points I will try and sum up some of the better advice here which you are sorely in need of following:
I am reading everything in this thread.
1) You cannot beat your 'friend' if he cheats and refuses to play in the spirit of the game.
2) Buy rules + Read Rules + Use Rules in games = happy balanced (ish) gaming experience.
3) If he wont comply, there must be other people to play at your FLGS. It cannot survive on you and your 'friends' patronage alone
There are, but the problem is that they usually don't bring models. They usually just go there to paint and buy stuff.
There are some extremely good opponents, but they are rarely there.
4) Stop selling armies. You will regret it in years to come, and they are not the basis of your Issues. You cannot buy victory over your 'friend'.
This is true. I just desperately need money to pay off shipping costs/paints and do not need armies I don't use.
5) Don't be so obsessed with 'winning'. Your opponent probably thrives off your pain and anguish, and you will never love the hobby if it is all you care about.
I used to not care about winning or losing. I ran strictly fluff lists (I played Eldar in 5th), and never even went on wargames forums. But eventually, the press of losing over and over got to me. I was so sick of saying "GG, nice victory" every game, and seeing my opponent's ~entire army on the board after mine was tabled. I was sick of my opponent shouting "Winner!" After every single game.
My opponent played Tyranids at the time. He moved all of his MCs 12", never had the Codex, and instead used the Internet and "Memory" to find out his points and the back of the 5th ed rulebook to find out his stats. He never knew any of his special rules. I realize that he probably ran about 500 points more than I did. I had no LGS. The only options to play games were his folding white plastic tables or my kitchen table. They were so small that he was guaranteed to get into combat turn 2.
Eventually, I finally found a game store. I played a few games, and still lost every single time to Necrons and Chaos with my 5th ed Eldar dex.
I started the hobby in 2011. I gained my first win in late 2012. I beat my opponent's CSM army with my Guard.
Finally, I felt happy. I toned down my lost because my opponent said that game wasn't fun, and then kept losing. I never asked my opponent to to e down his list for fear of whining.
Eventually, the 6th edition Eldar uberddex came out. I was beaten again and again by illegal Ork walker armies (6 solo kans and 2 solo dreads) I spammed as many Bright Lances as possible, but my tanks always got wrecked by all of his Kustom Mega Blastas and his Kan close combat attacks, which he said were Str10 AP1. Even my Wraithknight couldn't hurt his army, as I had built him with a Suncannon and didn't want to proxy. Meanwhile, half of my opponent's army (10 lootas and 3 Kans) was empty bases.
I quit the game for a few months.
In August 2014, I bought the Tyranid Swarm and a Hive Tyrant. I asked my opponent for a friendly game. Walker Spam. I couldn't damage anything of his except with the Flyrant and was tabled. I played a game against a DE player and won objectives with my horde on turn 4. It felt so good, and when I shook hands after the match I had felt that I actually achieved something and worked hard for it.
My opponent started playing Tau. Next game I played with him, he brought his Tau.
The entire series of events involving his Tau are written here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/617853.page
I kept playing Nids, and finally bought another Flyrant with 4 weeks of savings. After the first game I played with dual Flyrants, he said playing against dual Flyrants wasn't fun, and said he wouldn't play against them any more.
I stopped playing for a few weeks, but went back to the game store eventually. I played a series of games against a guy named Kyle, who, I learned, was just starting with his Ultramarines.
I played 2 games against him. The first game was the shame of my career. I brought 3 Wave Serpents and a Wraithknight. He brought a foot army that didn't synergize well. I crushed him on turn 2. It was no fun whatsoever. I realised that I had turned into my opponent. Instead of saying GG, I asked to play a game using my Tyranids against him. It was a much more fair game, and he eventually won at the end. It was incredibly fun.
After the game, I gave him some tips. I told him about Chapter Master Smashfucker, and how he could kill Wraithknights. I told him about Crav Centurions, and how they were better for the points than Assault Centurions.
Now, he is running Grav Centurions and other units skillfully. I realised that instead of crushing his soul, saying GG, and not giving him help, I had actually helped him improve his game.
Then, my opponent started GKs. It was !!Fun!!. He rolled EVERY ONE OF HIS SAVES one by one, and as a result almost never failed one. He beat me again and again using them. I beat him once. For Christmas, I decided that I wanted a small Necron army. To fund it, since I was out of money from buying stuff, I began trading my stuff away. A Haruspexocrine and Mawloc for a Monolith and Ghost Ark. A Flyrant and Genestealers for a Night Scythe and Spyder. I amassed a mighty army, but let my Eldar and Tyranid armies rot. As I type this epic, my last Tyranids and Guard are up for sale.
(If any of you want to buy a Dakkafex and Tervigon, let me know )
Now, it is the end times. I posted this thread. In 2 days, I am going to my LGS to play Kill Team. May god have mercy on my soul.
Just for fun I am going to preempt your responses below:
1) This is the only way to rehabilitate your 'friend' in 40K. If he still refuses, I would suggest that he may be entering foil hat territory and your efforts are futile
2) You have bought and sold whole fully-painted armies (something I have only managed once in 30 years!) but cannot afford to buy a second hand rulebook (or even go online and find a free copy.....)
3) Cannot possibly be true. More people must play / buy there or it would go under. Look on social media, post on the shop message board, go on Sunday or a weeknight and find other people. Give us the store name and we will find you more ways to meet other players.
4) If you cannot win with Eldar/Tyranids/Necrons then you might as well give up. Also, how do you know the new crons dex is crap? It is not even out and you have already decided to sell your army?
5) Yes you are, I too have read most of your posts (mainly for the lulz) and it is the one overriding theme that comes through in all of them. I suspect you might be WAAC player in the making, but it is not too late for you my son..... you can still turn away from the dark side...
Tried WAAC. Nobody liked me and I still didn't win, so I started fluffing again.
If none of this works for you, then I think you need to take a break away from 40K of about... 10 years. That's what I did - I followed this advice when I was about 14
I probably will... It's no fun anymore...
Desubot wrote: Perhaps its time to put the toys away, work out, get a chick and go party. dont miss out on that childhood
I packed all my models away in the attic, went out and got a life for 15 years - messed around in school, went to uni, traveled, met my wife, had a family - and then one day passed a FLGS and popped in for a bit of nostalgia. Two days later I was pulling all my (now very rare) rouge trader stuff out of the attic and was right back into it. The difference was that this time I was much more confident and comfortable with myself as a person and had no problem meeting other like minded people to play with. I remember the horror of playing against other immature pre-pubescent teens, and am forever glad I got away from it before it killed my love for the hobby. Perhaps you need to do likewise.
I probably will stop gaming. It isn't fun playing against the same guy every game, and the constant crushing losses are horrible for my morale.
And if not, this really is the only real course of action left to you
Solar Shock wrote: Next game, dont bring any models, bring a box of cheese. Some stilton, cheddar and maybe some pamasean. Put them in your deployment zone and when he asks what they are tell him there your Imperial Knights, or your wave spam list, whatever you want your flavour of cheese to be. When he complains; ask him where his rulebook is. If he don't want to play then say lets go home. When he does play, Cheat, lie and annhilate him, tell him that your D str weapons actually allow you to bring a mallet and hit his units, whatever breaks is whats dead. When he complains ask him to prove its not a rule with "his" rulebook. At the end of the game as he sits there crying, casually walk over to him, push him to his knees, gently cup his chin and lift his head so you can see his salty tears streaming down his face and tell him he is now your she-dog and this is his life from now on.
I couldn't make somebody cry, nor destroy anyone's stuff... It just isn't in me...
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/01/29 21:27:04
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
2018/07/13 22:16:10
Subject: Help with Beating Grey Chaos Ork Tau Knights
you should have a talk with your friend not during the game.
Talk about how the game is supposed to be fun, and can be competitive but rules should be followed so its fun.
I would try and get other people involved playing, like team things.
I mean ultimately you have to have a sincere talk with this person, about the rules and fun. It's either a fun game for both people because rules are followed- or its fun for just one person because they cheat. Then based on their response you need to either not play this person again, or they agree to change somehow and play them.
I would reccomend playing some small points games like scenarios from various books that are not standard missions with them. Then go back to larger points if it works out.
2015/01/30 01:35:05
Subject: Re:Help with Beating Grey Chaos Ork Tau Knights
Your friend is clearly the toxic element in your gaming experience. Either move on from him, or move on from the game until you find others to play.
Alternatively - ditch the friend, enjoy the painting and modeling aspect at home, play games against yourself and post them up on dakka so you can 'play with the community' through our C&C and review of your tactics (this last part is not so strange, even jy2 does it occasionally - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/627273.page)
I wish you all the best, but the time for endless discussion and anguish are over.
The sooner you move on, the happier you will be.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/30 01:35:14
If in doubt, frag it out...
Fight spam with spam, cheese with cheese, and fluff with a razor sharp sense of the appropriate
That guy sounds like a total ass using his logic I going to go to my games work shop and tell every tau that I could possibly lose to that, fire warriors are banned and if you complain you are just a loser and if you bring vehicles you are a terrible player and that includes any hq except the hq ethereal which shall not be named, then I'll only spam imperial knights and a reaver Titan
[Khorne Daemonkin Warband] 4/4/0
2015/02/01 22:34:09
Subject: Help with Beating Grey Chaos Ork Tau Knights
dragoonmaster101 wrote: That guy sounds like a total ass using his logic I going to go to my games work shop and tell every tau that I could possibly lose to that, fire warriors are banned and if you complain you are just a loser and if you bring vehicles you are a terrible player and that includes any hq except the hq ethereal which shall not be named, then I'll only spam imperial knights and a reaver Titan
Wait... What?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Found a nice way to make terrain by cutting up GW boxes. Will keep you guys updated on the situation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/02 04:42:34
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
2015/02/02 07:33:23
Subject: Help with Beating Grey Chaos Ork Tau Knights
Automatically Appended Next Post: Found a nice way to make terrain by cutting up GW boxes. Will keep you guys updated on the situation.
Nice, Double usage of the GW stuff! all you need do now is throw in some use of the sprue and you are getting every bang for your buck possible interested and looking forward to seeing what ya make!
Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.
Just a quick question to OP with regard to unit placement, as a lot of those are not battle brothers (i believe some are desperate if not Come the apocalypse) are you making sure that he is abiding by the rules for model placement.
Even though he is unbound he still cannot ignore the allies’ matrix.
Careful I have CDO it’s like OCD but in alphabetical order LIKE IT SHOULD BE!!!!!!
Make it idiot proof and someone will make a better idiot.
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2015/02/02 08:53:21
Subject: Help with Beating Grey Chaos Ork Tau Knights
Automatically Appended Next Post: Found a nice way to make terrain by cutting up GW boxes. Will keep you guys updated on the situation.
Nice, Double usage of the GW stuff! all you need do now is throw in some use of the sprue and you are getting every bang for your buck possible interested and looking forward to seeing what ya make!
I've made some nob cybork fingers out of sprues. Not that it's a 100% material usage but at least he has fingers now. Lost original ones in a fall-off-table-holding-a-rokkit-pack accident
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/02 08:55:06
2015/02/02 14:04:18
Subject: Help with Beating Grey Chaos Ork Tau Knights
Automatically Appended Next Post: Found a nice way to make terrain by cutting up GW boxes. Will keep you guys updated on the situation.
Nice, Double usage of the GW stuff! all you need do now is throw in some use of the sprue and you are getting every bang for your buck possible interested and looking forward to seeing what ya make!
I've made some nob cybork fingers out of sprues. Not that it's a 100% material usage but at least he has fingers now. Lost original ones in a fall-off-table-holding-a-rokkit-pack accident
Is it possible to melt down sprues and cast things with the plastic?
Automatically Appended Next Post: In case I play him again.
Is this list good?
I would highly advise against melting the plastics, especially if you're under 17. Those fumes are toxic (I'm pretttyyyy sure) and hot plastic can burn you bad. On top of that, no it's not really possible to melt plastic and cast things, it's better to use resin in molds and it can get expensive.
An enthusiastic fool trying to master Eldar.
My blog, It came from the Webway 7700 pts of Craftworld Beil-Tan and Kala'Kora
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2015/02/02 19:54:31
Subject: Help with Beating Grey Chaos Ork Tau Knights
Automatically Appended Next Post: Found a nice way to make terrain by cutting up GW boxes. Will keep you guys updated on the situation.
Nice, Double usage of the GW stuff! all you need do now is throw in some use of the sprue and you are getting every bang for your buck possible interested and looking forward to seeing what ya make!
I've made some nob cybork fingers out of sprues. Not that it's a 100% material usage but at least he has fingers now. Lost original ones in a fall-off-table-holding-a-rokkit-pack accident
Is it possible to melt down sprues and cast things with the plastic?
Automatically Appended Next Post: In case I play him again.
Is this list good?
Anyone know where I can get tons of LOS blocking terrain for cheap? I don't have much money and suck at making terrain.
Find some paperhammer/ other paper based terrain online. preferably already coloured.
Colour print it onto card.
Cut out the shapes.
Go to your next game with a ton of foldable scenery.
Give half to your opponent to deploy one one side, and half for you to deploy on the other. 25% coverage with lots of LoS breakers provides a better game.
Real time talk - much like many others have done in this thread.
I was in a fairly similar situation when I was your age (started probably younger actually) and the friendship ended in a bad way - but far overdue for the friendship to end.
He was my friend in middle school 7th grade - and up thru my 1st year of college. Each year he got worse but my sense of loyalty wouldn't let me see it until the situation was far too toxic.
It started with Magic the Gathering and as we moved over to warhammer, he was the same guy that your friend is now.
Back then it was my Old One Eye he refused to play against (there were no flyrants at the time)
When I found other gamers and expanded the group, none of my new friends liked him. He was my friend longer and one of my first gamer friends so I defended him, even though everyone was right.
He had the "I have to win" attitude, even if it meant cheating and ruining the fun for others. If things started to go south for him in a game, he would just get mad, complain about how things were overpowered and quit playing.
Eventually this attitude spread to outside of gaming and into the rest of the friendship. I made the mistake of helping him out after he made some dumb decisions in life and well, in the end I am out of a good chunk of money that he refused to pay back and the friendship ending due to him just being a fething scum bag.
Some people never grow out of bad behavior, it gets worse as they don't suffer any consequences, or at least don't understand the consequences of their behavior.
If your friend refuses to see that he is ruining your fun just so he can be the one to win, it is time to find a higher quality of friend. It will save you a lot of headache and heartache in the future.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/02 23:15:45
I feel like every point you needed to hear has been said multiple times, but if you still want to play warhammer40k with this guy you just need to bring your rulebook and literally look up every single thing he tries to do. Moving his squad? look up their unit type. Shooting you? look up the weapons stats. Shooting him? look up his saves/toughness. It will make the game take forever but i promise you that you will see hes breaking so many rules its not even funny. I started playing right when 6th edition came out with my only warbuddy having been playing/collecting since 3rd edition..
Literally everytime I tried to do something he would call me out and be like "whoa man you cant do that.. ive been playing for 10+ years and not a single person has done that. I don't believe you, showme the rules" I show him the rules allowing me to do it. "ohh... guess they changed that in 7th edition, you used to not be able to do that."
I had lost so many games to this "veteran" because i was apparently breaking the rules and let him talk me into not doing it. Eventually I just straight up told him ,"no you're wrong. feth off. look up the rules yourself i know im right." Now i'm the one reminding him of the rules most games. We are still friends and still game every week but the games are tense and sometimes frustrating with True Line of Sight and movement. I put my WAAC effort into my listbuilding/army synergy then just deploy on the battlefield "roleplaying" as my squads. He builds fluffy lists but goes WAAC on the table strategy wise. I can use this to my advantage though, literally every game involves him deploying in or going straight to the closest ruins and camping in there til turn 4 to cap objectives. So whenever we place Obj markers I always place mine outside the ruins in the open within 12" of the ruins. This stops him from putting an obj in some of the ruins.
OP your only chance to keep gaming with this guy is to bust out your rulebook for literally every single thing. Even deployment/scouts/when to actually roll for warlord traits.. EVERYTHINGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG. I promise you that you will find out that you only knew half of the rule most of the time. Or that the rule specifically states "Models" or "Unit" The way the rules are worded are extremely important and can be misunderstood even as you are reading them.
Also you need to force him to write his list down before you play so he can't add/change gak on the fly. You should also go through each of your armies describing their wargear/available template/blasts/special rules. I can't tell you how many games I've just lost cause I didn't know a unit had Blasts or Stealth/Shrouded or some other special rule.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/02/03 08:56:00
Everything the OP needs to hear about how to deal with his "friend" has been said (repeatedly), so I'll just add one observation. You're not playing WH40K with this guy. You're playing Calvin Ball. WH40K has actual rules, written down in books that have to be followed. Calvin Ball is just each player making up stuff as they go. Until you both start playing the same game, your experience won't change. Essentially, you're bringing a bowling ball to a tennis court and then wondering why you can't seem to knock any pins down.
Tau: Fireblade, 2 Hammerheads, Riptide, 3 Solo Piranhas, 36 fire warriors, 3 Suits (One proxied as Farsight), all drones are marker drones.
As a tau player can someone please explain how this list is OP?
His Lists are irrelevant, because he plays by his own rules. This thread is simply a giant repeat loop. Can we get it locked? Or agree it no longer needs comments? Not trying to be harsh to Verv, but many people have put alot of input in, taking quite a bit of time to write extensive posts and replies. Obviously if people want to spend time doing this then ofc it is your life and your time. But I am just trying to save you all a little of it I get that I am contributing to the giant loop as we speak, But after this I will be unsuscribing to make sure it dont appear in my list of threads I check
Verv, I loom forward to seeing your terrain, but make it a new topic in the P&M section when you get some pics. GL and best wishes
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/03 14:10:12
Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.
greytalon666 wrote: It's op because hge plays guard w/ 5+ armor, and his opponent refuses to play with terrain, so every wound is a dead guard.
I don't play Guard. I play SM Terminators and Necrons.
It does not matter what you play. You do not know the game other than what your cheater friend tells you.
This is a repeat thread. Your opponent has a crap list. There is nothing OP about it.
Stop playing him or accept the fact you are nothing more than a punching bag for him.
I acknowledge the last line.
Did I ever say "OP" ANYWHERE in this thread? I generally believe every -normal- unit except Riptides and Wave Serpents are balanced.
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
Jeez. It's threads like this that make me glad I play at a club with a whole bunch of members. If someone tried this here they would absolutely not get away with it.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
the_scotsman wrote: Jeez. It's threads like this that make me glad I play at a club with a whole bunch of members. If someone tried this here they would absolutely not get away with it.
Quick question- how did you find a gaming club?
I just want to play against painted stuff.
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
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