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Kangodo wrote:
So since you are older you are wiser and therefore your opinion on the new Codex is much more important?
There is nothing wise in spamming the same standard line in every thread.

No, it's about me explicitely critcizing the codex and you, as usual, immediately resorting to ad hominem. That's the immature part. If you feel personally offended because of someone having (legit and well-reasonable, might I add) complaints about a codex, then you need to reconsider and reflect upon your behavior.

Can you answer my question too, please, Siggy?

Hmm. I am sure I haven't seen those legit and well-reasonable complaints yet.
Though this is probably the fifth post I read of you that comes down to "They took away Necron flavour and this is for powergamers!"
So no wonder if people are offended when you are basically calling them powergamers.

We all know you worship the old-old Codices, but not everyone feels like that.

 Sigvatr wrote:
As I said, to each their own. Not that you'd understand such a mentality, but with age comes experience and thus wisdom.

Not quite.

With age comes health problems and cristallized intelligence.

Each experience on that road can teach you more or less lessons depending on your attitude towards those events.

The sum of those lessons is what we like to call wisdom.

As a Necron player, from what I've been able to piece together it looks like an overall power buff, which I'm happy about overall.

My biggest gripe so far is about Crypteks:

(a) Crypteks look like they are going to be blandified, and fill the RP buff role that Lords used to fill. Leaving Lords to do what exactly? Guard the shelf?

(b) I'm a bit miffed because I had a plan and the bits to do up a large group of Crypteks for each Harbinger group. I was excited about the plan, had color schemes, bought the bits I need, but looks like I'm going to have to drop it. Hopefully, there will still be some vareity within Cryptek wargear options. I guess we'll see. Hopefully there'll be more to Crypteks than what I'm seeing in the rumors.

A second gripe is all the formations. You used to be able to unock the cool stuff just by purchasing a unit, possibly a piece of wargear. Now you have to purchase a group of units, and remember who's part of who and what's part of what. When you're 4 beers into a six pack, remembering which unit is part of which formation and therefore has that formation's special rule becomes mentally taxing. Maybe I'm just a dummy, or maybe I shouldn't drink beer when I play Also, the formations don't play with me on a fluff-level...but that is not Necron-specific.

(P.S. I don't know how you all stay on top of all these rumors. The applicable Rumors thread is like at page 150!)

But overall, I'm really pleased with the rumors and looking forward to the release so I can piece it altogether from one source.

 jasper76 wrote:

(a) Crypteks look like they are going to be blandified, and fill the RP buff role that Lords used to fill. Leaving Lords to do what exactly? Guard the shelf?

(b) I'm a bit miffed because I had a plan and the bits to do up a large group of Crypteks for each Harbinger group. I was excited about the plan, had color schemes, bought the bits I need, but looks like I'm going to have to drop it. Hopefully, there will still be some vareity within Cryptek wargear options. I guess we'll see. Hopefully there'll be more to Crypteks than what I'm seeing in the rumors.

(a) Necron lords are still badass. I play Eldar and everytime I have to pick an HQ slot, I know I'm wasting points. Some Necron HQ choices are very obvious, like for example Mr. Destroyer Lord and his CrazyGood Wraith Buddies.

(b) I think they're just toning them down a bit from the "omgwtfbbq" stormtek days to something that makes sense. I don't think they lose in useful variety.

Oberron wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
3 Ghost Arks and 3 Squads of Necron Warriors puts out 60 Gauss Shots at 24 and 120 at 12. I'd say that's a decent gunline.

Ghost arks don't have rapid fire anymore only Salvo afaik. So 90 shots within 12

They are Salvo. 2 banks of Salvo 5/10 on a vehicle (relentless) is 20 shots per ark. So 120 was correct.

morgoth wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

(a) Crypteks look like they are going to be blandified, and fill the RP buff role that Lords used to fill. Leaving Lords to do what exactly? Guard the shelf?

(b) I'm a bit miffed because I had a plan and the bits to do up a large group of Crypteks for each Harbinger group. I was excited about the plan, had color schemes, bought the bits I need, but looks like I'm going to have to drop it. Hopefully, there will still be some vareity within Cryptek wargear options. I guess we'll see. Hopefully there'll be more to Crypteks than what I'm seeing in the rumors.

(a) Necron lords are still badass. I play Eldar and everytime I have to pick an HQ slot, I know I'm wasting points. Some Necron HQ choices are very obvious, like for example Mr. Destroyer Lord and his CrazyGood Wraith Buddies.

(b) I think they're just toning them down a bit from the "omgwtfbbq" stormtek days to something that makes sense. I don't think they lose in useful variety.

(a) Can you expand on why Necron Lords are still badass? I never thought they were bad ass to begin with...just a vehicle to tack a Res Orb onto a unit. I'm not exactly sure how Res Orbs will work, but I keep seeing they will be one-use-only. And now Crypteks will be the ones to give your units a "permanent" +1 to RP. So in my mind, Crypteks just became Lords, and Lords just hit the shelf. I may be missing something here, I admit.

(b) I hope you're correct...the Cryptek's are supposed to hold the know-how for Necron techno-magic. If they become "1 Cryptek is just like any other Cryptek" (pretty much like Lords are now), I'll be pretty dissapointed.

 jasper76 wrote:

(a) Can you expand on why Necron Lords are still badass? I never thought they were bad ass to begin with...just a vehicle to tack a Res Orb onto a unit. I'm not exactly sure how Res Orbs will work, but I keep seeing they will be one-use-only. And now Crypteks will be the ones to give your units a "permanent" +1 to RP. So in my mind, Crypteks just became Lords, and Lords just hit the shelf. I may be missing something here, I admit.

(b) I hope you're correct...the Cryptek's are supposed to hold the know-how for Necron techno-magic. If they become "1 Cryptek is just like any other Cryptek" (pretty much like Lords are now), I'll be pretty dissapointed.

(a) Well, just read the Eldar Codex. We don't have a single HQ that doesn't scream "I'm an HQ tax, forget about making *these* points back". S7AP2 is one crazy weapon, and with MindShackleScarabs it was just pure crazy Assault deterrent. I think you missed a lot of their potential. Res Orbs let you reroll all of your failed FnP-like RP during a single phase. That means that when your lord should be dying because he was charged by TWC, he'll be rolling 3++ to 4+ Rerollable FnP (which doesn't get cancelled by ID because it's called RP). It's more of a Mario Star type of ability that makes you temporarily near unkillable.

(b) Nope, you must have misread some rumors, or read the wrong ones or something, I saw a table with several different Crypteks and all that. (or maybe I read it wrong, who knows).

 Sigvatr wrote:
As I said, to each their own. Not that you'd understand such a mentality, but with age comes experience and thus wisdom.

Working in retail and customer service I can categorically tell you this isn't always the case...

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
It's a soulless codex. Nothing to do with Necrons anymore, just written for powergamers and the rules could be easily applied to any random Space Marine army.

Is this because of the change to WBB? Or is there some other, deeper underlying cause to your statement?

Sorry, didn't read your post before. Darn last posts on pages!

Iirc I made a longer post on this one. In short, it's:

- Removal of WBB mechanic: For a lot of players, it doesn't matter and a great many of Necron players started with the 5th codex anyway, thus never really got the hang of it. But there's a distinct difference between tossing models over and letting them "stand back up" instead of just rolling an extra dice. If, for example, 10 models lie down on the battlefield and then stand up at the end of the turn, then this not only is a good thing game-wise, it also perfectly connects rules and fluff as this is exactly what WBB would look like in the actual game. Even RP contained said mechanic to a lesser degree.

- Distinct melee focus: This is breaking with the entire Necron theme. Necrons are the least suited army for combat prowess and have always been compensated by special rules for it. The recent insane buff on melee doesn't make any sense and was clearly decided to make Necrons more well-rounded, thus catering to more players.

- Regeneration Orb: Necron Lords have been constructed to serve as power-conduits for regular Necrons. One-time use items just don't work that way.

- Blandness / Generic: The entirety of the codex has nothing "Necron" about it. It could easily be any SM codex with FNP stuff etc. thrown around.

- Models: Necron Lords posing like humans...ugh. We already had vehicles with drivers, but it's seemingly getting worse. The new Necron Lord model features a very dynamic and "Come at me bro!" pose that neither fits Necrons, nor does it do anything good to make the codex look less generic.

- Low effort: As usual, I point to the 3rd codex. It was nigh-perfect. Perfect connection between fluff and rules. It was a codex that actually took some effort and people thinking twice before putting something in. It was terrible, terrible, terrible for the longest time, but I'd rather take a weak, but perfectly written codex over a poorly written, clearly PG-aimed codex. But alas, that was back when GW still knew what they were doing or, rather, cared for the game at all.

morgoth wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

(a) Can you expand on why Necron Lords are still badass? I never thought they were bad ass to begin with...just a vehicle to tack a Res Orb onto a unit. I'm not exactly sure how Res Orbs will work, but I keep seeing they will be one-use-only. And now Crypteks will be the ones to give your units a "permanent" +1 to RP. So in my mind, Crypteks just became Lords, and Lords just hit the shelf. I may be missing something here, I admit.

(b) I hope you're correct...the Cryptek's are supposed to hold the know-how for Necron techno-magic. If they become "1 Cryptek is just like any other Cryptek" (pretty much like Lords are now), I'll be pretty dissapointed.

(a) Well, just read the Eldar Codex. We don't have a single HQ that doesn't scream "I'm an HQ tax, forget about making *these* points back". S7AP2 is one crazy weapon, and with MindShackleScarabs it was just pure crazy Assault deterrent. I think you missed a lot of their potential. Res Orbs let you reroll all of your failed FnP-like RP during a single phase. That means that when your lord should be dying because he was charged by TWC, he'll be rolling 3++ to 4+ Rerollable FnP (which doesn't get cancelled by ID because it's called RP). It's more of a Mario Star type of ability that makes you temporarily near unkillable.

(b) Nope, you must have misread some rumors, or read the wrong ones or something, I saw a table with several different Crypteks and all that. (or maybe I read it wrong, who knows).

I guess I'm too far behind the power curve on Necron rumors to comment more on (a), however Necron Lords were never really an "pure" HQ option (with 5th). To unlock them, you'd have to have an Overlord with the 5th Edition codex. I don't know whether regular Lords (vs. Overlords) will now be able to be your only HQ option. I guess I just don't know enough to draw meaningful conclusions here.

As for (b) I'm certainly glad you've seen evidence of continuing variety amongst Crypteks...that was one of my potential big letdowns.

 Sigvatr wrote:
It's a soulless codex. Nothing to do with Necrons anymore, just written for powergamers and the rules could be easily applied to any random Space Marine army.

Given that from a competitive point of view it's probably worse than the old codex, how is it written for powergamers?

 jasper76 wrote:


I guess I'm too far behind the power curve on Necron rumors to comment more on (a), however Necron Lords were never really an "pure" HQ option (with 5th). To unlock them, you'd have to have an Overlord with the 5th Edition codex. I don't know whether regular Lords (vs. Overlords) will now be able to be your only HQ option. I guess I just don't know enough to draw meaningful conclusions here.

As for (b) I'm certainly glad you've seen evidence of continuing variety amongst Crypteks...that was one of my potential big letdowns.

My bad, I was thinking about Overlords, I had no idea Necrons even had Lords, because nobody ever took them


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LordBlades wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
It's a soulless codex. Nothing to do with Necrons anymore, just written for powergamers and the rules could be easily applied to any random Space Marine army.

Given that from a competitive point of view it's probably worse than the old codex, how is it written for powergamers?

That may not be the case.

The worst offenders have been nerfed, but there have been a large number of improvements so it might result in something just as good - I hope it's a straight nerf to about the same power level as others v7 codexes though.

We really don't need GW to feth up any codexes right now, especially not one that has been fethed up for ages.

There is always one of these threads every time a new codex comes out.

Lots of interesting points made in this thread though.

 Sigvatr wrote:

Sorry, didn't read your post before. Darn last posts on pages!

Iirc I made a longer post on this one. In short, it's:

- Removal of WBB mechanic: For a lot of players, it doesn't matter and a great many of Necron players started with the 5th codex anyway, thus never really got the hang of it. But there's a distinct difference between tossing models over and letting them "stand back up" instead of just rolling an extra dice. If, for example, 10 models lie down on the battlefield and then stand up at the end of the turn, then this not only is a good thing game-wise, it also perfectly connects rules and fluff as this is exactly what WBB would look like in the actual game. Even RP contained said mechanic to a lesser degree.

- Distinct melee focus: This is breaking with the entire Necron theme. Necrons are the least suited army for combat prowess and have always been compensated by special rules for it. The recent insane buff on melee doesn't make any sense and was clearly decided to make Necrons more well-rounded, thus catering to more players.

- Regeneration Orb: Necron Lords have been constructed to serve as power-conduits for regular Necrons. One-time use items just don't work that way.

- Blandness / Generic: The entirety of the codex has nothing "Necron" about it. It could easily be any SM codex with FNP stuff etc. thrown around.

- Models: Necron Lords posing like humans...ugh. We already had vehicles with drivers, but it's seemingly getting worse. The new Necron Lord model features a very dynamic and "Come at me bro!" pose that neither fits Necrons, nor does it do anything good to make the codex look less generic.

- Low effort: As usual, I point to the 3rd codex. It was nigh-perfect. Perfect connection between fluff and rules. It was a codex that actually took some effort and people thinking twice before putting something in. It was terrible, terrible, terrible for the longest time, but I'd rather take a weak, but perfectly written codex over a poorly written, clearly PG-aimed codex. But alas, that was back when GW still knew what they were doing or, rather, cared for the game at all.

This sums up my feelings, too.

Necrons seem like a strong army, but they now bear little resemblance to the army I got into in 3rd.

morgoth wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:


I guess I'm too far behind the power curve on Necron rumors to comment more on (a), however Necron Lords were never really an "pure" HQ option (with 5th). To unlock them, you'd have to have an Overlord with the 5th Edition codex. I don't know whether regular Lords (vs. Overlords) will now be able to be your only HQ option. I guess I just don't know enough to draw meaningful conclusions here.

As for (b) I'm certainly glad you've seen evidence of continuing variety amongst Crypteks...that was one of my potential big letdowns.

My bad, I was thinking about Overlords, I had no idea Necrons even had Lords, because nobody ever took them

No problem. I was wondering... Since Lords only had 1 Wound, the way I played Necrons it was never good to invest further in one with expensive wargear like Warscythes and MSS. I just took them Vanilla + a Res Orb, and used them as a way to improve a units RP by way of the Res Orb. Now that Crypteks are rumored to have a "built-in" +1 to RP, I'm struggling to find any decent use for the Necron Lord. Who knows...maybe they will get some goodie(s) to make them worthwhile, but a "one-use-only" Res Orb that allows you to reroll RP one time isn't really doing it for me. When I see "One Use Only", I think "don't rely on this for anything". Tachyon Arrow comes to mind here.

LordBlades wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
It's a soulless codex. Nothing to do with Necrons anymore, just written for powergamers and the rules could be easily applied to any random Space Marine army.

Given that from a competitive point of view it's probably worse than the old codex, how is it written for powergamers?

Wraith-wing was a popular and effective tournament build and it just got way better. It will appeal to the waac gamer as it doesn't require a lot of models either.

Did anyone notice that Gauss now auto-wounds on a 6 regardless of Toughness (in addition to auto-glancing vehicles on a 6).

This seems odd...why? I don't have my To Wound chart in front of me, but is there a Toughness that S4 wouldn't wound on a 6? I know LOTR has some Toughnesses that low strength weapons wound on a 6 followed by a 4+, but I don't remember ever seeing that happen in any 40k game.

 jasper76 wrote:
Did anyone notice that Gauss now auto-wounds on a 6 regardless of Toughness (in addition to ).

This seems odd...why? I don't have my To Wound chart in front of me, but is there a Toughness that S4 wouldn't wound on a 6? I know LOTR has some Toughnesses that low strength weapons wound on a 6 followed by a 4+, but I don't remember ever seeing that happen in any 40k game.

T8 and higher. In 40k any toughness value that is 4 or more points higher than strength cannot wound. In fantasy (as of 8th edition) 6 always wounds.

 docdoom77 wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Did anyone notice that Gauss now auto-wounds on a 6 regardless of Toughness (in addition to ).

This seems odd...why? I don't have my To Wound chart in front of me, but is there a Toughness that S4 wouldn't wound on a 6? I know LOTR has some Toughnesses that low strength weapons wound on a 6 followed by a 4+, but I don't remember ever seeing that happen in any 40k game.

T8 and higher. In 40k any toughness value that is 4 or more points higher than strength cannot wound. In fantasy (as of 8th edition) 6 always wounds.

Gotcha.

Oberron wrote:
Wait.... Leviathan list? I thought the necron stuff from SOB was from Exterminius(sp)?

Sorry, I meant Exterminatus. It was 3am and my brian wasn't thinky so good at that point.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Oberron wrote:
Wait.... Leviathan list? I thought the necron stuff from SOB was from Exterminius(sp)?

Sorry, I meant Exterminatus. It was 3am and my brian wasn't thinky so good at that point.

You should let brian have a break

Despite the fact that MSS got the deff rolla / cybork body treatment, overall it sure sounds like there's some neat stuff on the way.

Gauss auto-wounding on a 6, in addition to glancing, isn't bad (not OP eldar mini-rending, but still good).

Warlord traits seem decent - EW and relentless bubble stand out especially.

Tesla is still great. Snap shot nerf is both expected and reasonable.

T5 2W wraiths is insane. Did they go up in points at least? By, like, a lot? If not, I'm sure there'll be much (justifiable) QQing from nid players in regards to warriors.

Scarabs still seem good too, and much simplified.

Gotta say, though, I'm a bit confused on their force org chart.

Did anything happen to monoliths? Neat model, love to see more around, but currently a bit expensive for a half-range battle cannon and little else.

 King Pariah wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Oberron wrote:
Wait.... Leviathan list? I thought the necron stuff from SOB was from Exterminius(sp)?

Sorry, I meant Exterminatus. It was 3am and my brian wasn't thinky so good at that point.

You should let brian have a break

Sorry, I've been up for maybe 20 minutes now and spent the first part of my morning answering nearly 80 messages on reddit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Monoliths have the Self-Repairing bonus from Living Metal because they're a Heavy vehicle.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Melevolence wrote:
The doom and gloom is real. Always, always is with new codecies. Everyone is being brought into line with the other books. Crazy powerful stuff for the most part is being neutered. I don't play Crons, but I have been pleasantly surprised with what I've hear has gotten buffed up, and only nodded in agreement with the vast majority of what got nerfed.

A lot of people ripped on the Ork book, but now that it has had proper field testing, I hear 80% less of people complaining and legit loving their codex.

I hear 80% less complaining because everyone I know who played orks quit the game >.>

I have a huge ork army and I can't justify pulling it out and playing. Mob rule is a horrible rule. They made an assault army, in a shooting edition kill itself in an assault.

I can't think of anything good about the ork codex, it's only fun if you play certain formations but even then you're Gimping yourself

I still love my orks, and play them plenty, but they are TERRIBLE. Mob rule is nearly unworkable.

Thanks GW for making an assault army with LD7 with no protection from fear tests! And also thanks for the free assault grenades to preserve our I2, but shootas cost extra! And thanks for no close combat invluns for anyone but a shooting HQ, and almost useless KFFs!

But this is a necron thread, I'll stop complaining now. Though I could go on and on and on.

Well, I don't know anything about the new necrons, but here is a story about necrons.
One day, my friend bought a box of necrons, but then returned it because there was very little to be done with it.
The necron backstory is really good, but the models are not.
just thought you should know.

LordBlades wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
It's a soulless codex. Nothing to do with Necrons anymore, just written for powergamers and the rules could be easily applied to any random Space Marine army.

Given that from a competitive point of view it's probably worse than the old codex, how is it written for powergamers?

My bad, bad word usuage. By "powergamers" I did not intend to refer to WAAC players, I wanted to refer to players who mainly care about an army's relative "power" in comparison to other armies. Hope that clears things up a bit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Sorry, I've been up for maybe 20 minutes now and spent the first part of my morning answering nearly 80 messages on reddit.

Someone has his priorities straight!

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
Well, I don't know anything about the new necrons, but here is a story about necrons.
One day, my friend bought a box of necrons, but then returned it because there was very little to be done with it.
The necron backstory is really good, but the models are not.
just thought you should know.

On the other hand, I got into 40k in general because I liked (many of) the Necron models. The backstory in the 5th edition codex never did much for me, and I'm certain to this day I haven't read through all of the fluff therein. I never had the codex previous (3rd Edition??) to that to compare it to, but I like the idea of a whole lot of The Terminator with a little bit of Pharoah-pimp stuff thrown in, moreso than a whole lot of Pharoah-pimp stuff with a little bit of The Terminator thrown in.