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 jreilly89 wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
You can't really use second hand, because 1; you're not always going to be able to get what you want in a condition you need, you might have to wait a while, and 2; you can buy WMH second hand too, so to use 2nd hand for GW stuff to make it cheaper is kind of a fallacious argument. And comparing 2nd hand to the $207 of Warmachine stuff, I'd rather just spend that on a brand new 50pt WM list than trawling ebay for $207 worth of 40k in God knows what condition that'll need stripping and stuff.

I would hardly say you can't. I know over 15 people who have bought 40k stuff 2nd hand. I will give you it's not fair for a straight up accurate price point comparison, but the 40k used model market is probably one of the strongest elements of the hobby.

Edit: I also don't search it as much, but I rarely see the level of Warmahordes used items compared to 40k items.

Back in the day, my mate and primary opponent got pissed at his Eldar and sold me his entire collection (at least £200 worth at RRP at the time - and this was 2ed, so stuff was a lot less per model) for £20.

This means that GW are clearly the cheapest!

Or, alternatively, you can't use secondhand pricing, or even new discounted, as a basis of comparison as there are too many variables at play. The only basis for meaningful comparison is RRP, if you can purchase at less when you buy for real, great, but that's incidental to the discussion.

-

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:


Edit: I also don't search it as much, but I rarely see the level of Warmahordes used items compared to 40k items.

That, in and of itself, is quite telling...

Telling of what? Warhammer 40k has 20+ years of glut to make for cheap stuff. W/H has about 10 years or so. The better units in Warmachine are more prevalent, but less likely to be sold off unless an entire army is sold off. Finding the right models one or two at a time takes a lot more patience for W/H than 40k, as having done both now a lot.

I know armies in W/H get shifted a lot faster than 40k, it seems. And usually shifted as a lot.

WMH armies sell very well here. The guy with $3,200 of Cryx (max FA of nearly the entire faction along with mercs) sold it all in less than a week to me and 2 other people. I sold all my Menoth today when I just decided yesterday to get rid of them. Another guy shifted the entire Convergence faction in a week. 40k armies have to be pieced off bit by bit over weeks/months and then the scraps sold on ebay.

 Toofast wrote:
WMH armies sell very well here. The guy with $3,200 of Cryx (max FA of nearly the entire faction along with mercs) sold it all in less than a week to me and 2 other people. I sold all my Menoth today when I just decided yesterday to get rid of them. Another guy shifted the entire Convergence faction in a week. 40k armies have to be pieced off bit by bit over weeks/months and then the scraps sold on ebay.

But that's kind of a key distinction. With WMH, you don't need much to have an army. With 40k, you can mix and match a ton (this may be true of WMH, never played it myself), so I feel like buying only what you need is fine, where as in WMH its easier just to buy a whole army.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Toofast wrote:
WMH armies sell very well here. The guy with $3,200 of Cryx (max FA of nearly the entire faction along with mercs) sold it all in less than a week to me and 2 other people. I sold all my Menoth today when I just decided yesterday to get rid of them. Another guy shifted the entire Convergence faction in a week. 40k armies have to be pieced off bit by bit over weeks/months and then the scraps sold on ebay.

But that's kind of a key distinction. With WMH, you don't need much to have an army. With 40k, you can mix and match a ton (this may be true of WMH, never played it myself), so I feel like buying only what you need is fine, where as in WMH its easier just to buy a whole army.

What do you mean? Yes, you can mix and match a tonne in WMH. Its easier to buy a whole WMH army in one go than a 40k army in one go yeah. I just don't get your point.

RoninXiC wrote:
And it's not just a bridge and 33 miniatures and a gun. Also included are a big house, a bunker, a few bits and bops, a scenario booklet, decals and a gun emplacement.

And that thing is HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE.

You're basically paying for a really high quality custom model kit along side of minis, rules, buildings, etc. Compare it to the price of similarly sized 0 scale buildings and it's not a bad deal.

Perhaps I missed this, but are folks using this as a comparison for starter sets? If so, that's a bad comparison. It's a special edition kit. The real starter sets are $112-128 and you either get

$112 for 2 players
40 figs, a plastic building, hardback rulebook, etc and

$128 for one player
50 figs
1 vehicle and 3 guns/artillery or 2 vehicle and 2 artillery

That's a pretty stark difference and much cheaper! You can start even cheaper by using other brands of figs and 1/48 vehicles.

This is making me want to start bolt action. Better stop typing now. I don't need another genre to game in.

Not only that but the "starter set" is a 1,000 point army which is also the normal points value. It's not like the starter set is like half of a regular force, it is (or was, maybe it changed?) a full army at the point size for a regular game, not an entry-level game.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Toofast wrote:
WMH armies sell very well here. The guy with $3,200 of Cryx (max FA of nearly the entire faction along with mercs) sold it all in less than a week to me and 2 other people. I sold all my Menoth today when I just decided yesterday to get rid of them. Another guy shifted the entire Convergence faction in a week. 40k armies have to be pieced off bit by bit over weeks/months and then the scraps sold on ebay.

But that's kind of a key distinction. With WMH, you don't need much to have an army. With 40k, you can mix and match a ton (this may be true of WMH, never played it myself), so I feel like buying only what you need is fine, where as in WMH its easier just to buy a whole army.

What do you mean? Yes, you can mix and match a tonne in WMH. Its easier to buy a whole WMH army in one go than a 40k army in one go yeah. I just don't get your point.

My point was that I think that's why there is a larger market for 40k than WMH. With 40k, its rare that you'd sell an entire army, you're more likely to just buy what you need. In WMH, you can easily buy a whole army. My point was that yes, the used market is not good for a straight up price-point comparison, but that the used market should not be completely ignored because of how large it is.

 Bottle wrote:
I also think the prices are fine especially if you buy at the rate you can paint.

I also like to play low point value games too.

Any true wargamer/collector will only actually open, and then build/paint, a maximum of 33% of the items they have purchased.

This means you have to buy correspondingly more to have a completed army or collection. That's the kind of thing you really have to take into account!

 Pacific wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
I also think the prices are fine especially if you buy at the rate you can paint.

I also like to play low point value games too.

Any true wargamer/collector will only actually open, and then build/paint, a maximum of 33% of the items they have purchased.

This means you have to buy correspondingly more to have a completed army or collection. That's the kind of thing you really have to take into account!

I worked out yesterday, I have 54 infinity models over 6 factions and not a single one is painted. I still have half the Tyranid Swarm box on the sprue, and the rest isn't even undercoated. I definitely buy quicker than I paint jaha. I don't even play much so my hobby basically is buying models. I'm GW perfect customer!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Toofast wrote:
WMH armies sell very well here. The guy with $3,200 of Cryx (max FA of nearly the entire faction along with mercs) sold it all in less than a week to me and 2 other people. I sold all my Menoth today when I just decided yesterday to get rid of them. Another guy shifted the entire Convergence faction in a week. 40k armies have to be pieced off bit by bit over weeks/months and then the scraps sold on ebay.

But that's kind of a key distinction. With WMH, you don't need much to have an army. With 40k, you can mix and match a ton (this may be true of WMH, never played it myself), so I feel like buying only what you need is fine, where as in WMH its easier just to buy a whole army.

What do you mean? Yes, you can mix and match a tonne in WMH. Its easier to buy a whole WMH army in one go than a 40k army in one go yeah. I just don't get your point.

My point was that I think that's why there is a larger market for 40k than WMH. With 40k, its rare that you'd sell an entire army, you're more likely to just buy what you need. In WMH, you can easily buy a whole army. My point was that yes, the used market is not good for a straight up price-point comparison, but that the used market should not be completely ignored because of how large it is.

I see what you're saying now, sorry. I agree you shouldn't ignore the used market, but like you say it doesn't have a place in a comparison between different companies.

I think that it is also more likely that folks will hold on to their WMH armies - WMH is not the gateway that WH40K was, so fewer new players deciding that this hobby isn't for them.

The Auld Grump

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
I think that it is also more likely that folks will hold on to their WMH armies - WMH is not the gateway that WH40K was, so fewer new players deciding that this hobby isn't for them.

The Auld Grump

Yep. I kind of want to get into WMH, but I don't know if I have time for another TT game.

IMHO infinity has cheap entry point, you can download the Quickstart rules free and the starter boxes have enough mini's to use in a battle, and the recent sculpts have very good details.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
IMHO infinity has cheap entry point, you can download the Quickstart rules free and the starter boxes have enough mini's to use in a battle, and the recent sculpts have very good details.

You can download the rules for free, period.