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2015/11/01 22:01:54
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
And your front running is a perfect example of The.Worst.Political.Human.Being.Possible. Corrupt to the core. She enriched herself and her foundation while servering her tenure as Secretary of State. Just imagine what would happen with her as President. :shudder:
Wait, Dick Cheney's had a sex change and is now running for the Democrats?
You know, I never really understood the hatred that man inspires.
Glad you brought him up, because Hillary Clinton is/was doing EXACTLY what critics of Cheney claimed to have done.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/11/01 22:09:22
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
And your front running is a perfect example of The.Worst.Political.Human.Being.Possible. Corrupt to the core. She enriched herself and her foundation while servering her tenure as Secretary of State. Just imagine what would happen with her as President. :shudder:
Wait, Dick Cheney's had a sex change and is now running for the Democrats?
You know, I never really understood the hatred that man inspires.
Glad you brought him up, because Hillary Clinton is/was doing EXACTLY what critics of Cheney claimed to have done.
She's set the Middle East ablaze with false accusations of weapons of mass destruction?
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2015/11/01 22:23:15
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
whembly wrote: It's a start! Mind you that's *my* idea.. not from Trump or anyone else.
It's equally as stupid as any other part of this plan.
Yes. Reminds me much of the other Democrats.
That makes no sense and you know it. Trump is playing directly into what your party base wants to hear.
And your front running is a perfect example of The.Worst.Political.Human.Being.Possible. Corrupt to the core. She enriched herself and her foundation while servering her tenure as Secretary of State. Just imagine what would happen with her as President. :shudder:
My front runner? The Democrats aren't my part because I'm not a party lapdog like you. I've made this perfectly clear in the past, but go ahead and continue to ignore and make up an argument like you have with every one of your posts lately.
Hey... your rules.
See above.
In those cases... of course.
It's entitlements need a good look'e'doo.
Right, because using government money to help citizens is a travesty when we could be dumping money into building a wall!
Frankly, I know you're being sarcastic and I'm shocked that a pipe-fitter like you would be drinking the blue koolaid that deeply to NOT consider that as a viable option.
Pipefitters don't build walls, we install pipes. And no, building a useless wall in the middle of the desert to try and keep brown people out appeals in no way to me.
Sorry to disappoint.
So... again... attacking *me* instead of attacking the argument.
You got nuthin.
You're like the living example of the Republican Party of 2015; you just ignore the stuff you disagree with and make up arguments so you can feel like you're winning. Oh, and of course accuse everyone of "attacking you!"
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
2015/11/01 22:24:36
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
And your front running is a perfect example of The.Worst.Political.Human.Being.Possible. Corrupt to the core. She enriched herself and her foundation while servering her tenure as Secretary of State. Just imagine what would happen with her as President. :shudder:
Wait, Dick Cheney's had a sex change and is now running for the Democrats?
You know, I never really understood the hatred that man inspires.
Glad you brought him up, because Hillary Clinton is/was doing EXACTLY what critics of Cheney claimed to have done.
She attempted to kill the Batman with a weaponized umbrella?
2015/11/01 22:26:48
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
So... again... attacking *me* instead of attacking the argument.
You got nuthin.
You're like the living example of the Republican Party of 2015; you just ignore the stuff you disagree with and make up arguments so you can feel like you're winning. Oh, and of course accuse everyone of "attacking you!"
Heh... I feel the same that about you as "Team Blue".
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/11/01 22:35:58
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
It's not really comparable. The distances involved, and the terrain make it a near impossibility to build, maintain, and police the wall. And the cost would end up being outrageous, which would mean either more debt, more taxes, or less of everything else. In the end,It's probably much similar to reform the system to allow immigrants and migrant workers to come here legally more easily.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/01 22:52:13
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
2015/11/01 22:56:58
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
What, the people who demand to reap all the advantages of society without contributing? Or does that not count as entitlement?
Um... what?
I'm making the point that it's only ever "entitlement" when poor people want benefits from society, never when rich people want all the benefits of the system without paying, and then twisting your words to make a joke about it. We never talk about how "entitled" rich people are when they demand that they keep as much of their earnings as possible depsite the fact that they'd not make anywhere near that amount without society backing them up.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2015/11/01 22:59:09
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
It's not really comparable. The distances involved, and the terrain make it a near impossibility to build, maintain, and police the wall. And the cost would end up being outrageous, which would mean either more debt, more taxes, or less of everything else. In the end,It's probably much similar to reform the system to allow immigrants and migrant workers to come here legally more easily.
In the end, it's easier to bump up ICE to enforce the actual fething laws and to end Sanctuary Cities.
Remove the incentive for illegals... and then they won't come in droves.
What, the people who demand to reap all the advantages of society without contributing? Or does that not count as entitlement?
Um... what?
I'm making the point that it's only ever "entitlement" when poor people want benefits from society, never when rich people want all the benefits of the system without paying, and then twisting your words to make a joke about it. We never talk about how "entitled" rich people are when they demand that they keep as much of their earnings as possible depsite the fact that they'd not make anywhere near that amount without society backing them up.
*sigh*
Here we go again....
What do you mean by "rich people". Nah... nevermind, it'll be the same ol' arguments.
Most of us here in the states aren't interested in European styled socialist policies. (with one caveat)
The caveat is that in time, I think we'll have a healthcare system similar to Canada or Germany... but, it'll be awhile because the current system really needs to crash for something drastic to happen.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/01 23:05:53
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/11/01 23:09:46
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
It's not really comparable. The distances involved, and the terrain make it a near impossibility to build, maintain, and police the wall. And the cost would end up being outrageous, which would mean either more debt, more taxes, or less of everything else. In the end,It's probably much similar to reform the system to allow immigrants and migrant workers to come here legally more easily.
In the end, it's easier to bump up ICE to enforce the actual fething laws and to end Sanctuary Cities.
Remove the incentive for illegals... and then they won't come in droves.
Simple, really.
That goes along with reform the system. Both need to be done.
And they were coming long before sanctuary cites existed, and will continue to come long after they are gone. The incentive is work, not "I might be able to stay".
Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
kronk wrote: Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
sebster wrote: Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
BaronIveagh wrote: Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
2015/11/01 23:16:35
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Remove the incentive for illegals... and then they won't come in droves.
Simple, really.
This right here just proves how little you really understand about the immigration "problem" in the US.
To be fair, I did think like you for a long time. This issue was just covered in my public policy class, and the professor turns out to be kind of the "bees knees" expert in this area. So, while I'm also not an expert, there really is quite a lot going on in this situation.
Even people who have extremely little to do with immigration are against guys like Trump and most Republican plans.... guys like Anthony Bourdain, who just penned an aritcle that flat stated the restaurant business would basically collapse if the gov't enacted some of the policies that the Republicans want.
2015/11/01 23:17:12
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
It's not really comparable. The distances involved, and the terrain make it a near impossibility to build, maintain, and police the wall. And the cost would end up being outrageous, which would mean either more debt, more taxes, or less of everything else. In the end,It's probably much similar to reform the system to allow immigrants and migrant workers to come here legally more easily.
In the end, it's easier to bump up ICE to enforce the actual fething laws and to end Sanctuary Cities.
Remove the incentive for illegals... and then they won't come in droves.
Simple, really.
That goes along with reform the system. Both need to be done.
And they were coming long before sanctuary cites existed, and will continue to come long after they are gone. The incentive is work, not "I might be able to stay".
It can be done... but man, this is stupid because it's basically saying to NC officials... hey, here's a law that prohibit you from breaking federal laws.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/11/01 23:18:50
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Remove the incentive for illegals... and then they won't come in droves.
Simple, really.
This right here just proves how little you really understand about the immigration "problem" in the US.
To be fair, I did think like you for a long time. This issue was just covered in my public policy class, and the professor turns out to be kind of the "bees knees" expert in this area. So, while I'm also not an expert, there really is quite a lot going on in this situation.
Even people who have extremely little to do with immigration are against guys like Trump and most Republican plans.... guys like Anthony Bourdain, who just penned an aritcle that flat stated the restaurant business would basically collapse if the gov't enacted some of the policies that the Republicans want.
Bull. fething. gak.
That's the exact same argument that "we need these workers because they'll only do the jobs that American refuses them".
That's horse gak.
Yeah, the industry will take a hit... yes, some products will have to rise because the labor is more expensive.
So what. We'll deal with it.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Co'tor Shas wrote: Oh, no, I disagree with sanctuary cities as well. I just don't think they are the intensive.
There are many incentives involved. Sanctuary Cities is only just one of them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/01 23:24:36
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/11/01 23:35:11
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Certainly, his remarks could be rather hyperbolic, but the point still remains that you would be doing more harm than good to the nation's economy by simply deporting everyone or whatever other "plans" the Republicans have.
2015/11/01 23:40:04
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
It's not really comparable. The distances involved, and the terrain make it a near impossibility to build, maintain, and police the wall. And the cost would end up being outrageous, which would mean either more debt, more taxes, or less of everything else. In the end,It's probably much similar to reform the system to allow immigrants and migrant workers to come here legally more easily.
In the end, it's easier to bump up ICE to enforce the actual fething laws and to end Sanctuary Cities.
Remove the incentive for illegals... and then they won't come in droves.
Simple, really.
That goes along with reform the system. Both need to be done.
And they were coming long before sanctuary cites existed, and will continue to come long after they are gone. The incentive is work, not "I might be able to stay".
It can be done... but man, this is stupid because it's basically saying to NC officials... hey, here's a law that prohibit you from breaking federal laws.
It's also another example of "completely useless laws in NC".
It's not an actual problem here in NC. Republicans think it is, but it's not.
Just like voter fraud.
2015/11/01 23:44:07
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Certainly, his remarks could be rather hyperbolic, but the point still remains that you would be doing more harm than good to the nation's economy by simply deporting everyone or whatever other "plans" the Republicans have.
Yup. Read it. Reading it again. (I do read Thinkprogress and Vox... just to get the lay of the land )
Aaaaand we're supposed to whitewash certain things or people who breaks the law.
Got it.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/11/01 23:47:27
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Raising the minimum wage will cripple the economy and destroy small businesses. Destroying a giant supply of cheap labor will be fine because businesses can easily deal with increased costs.
Makes sense....somewhere....
2015/11/01 23:51:39
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Aaaaand we're supposed to whitewash certain things or people who breaks the law.
Got it.
No... I don't think so. However, we do have over 50k children who have one or more parents "missing" due to deportation. You have upwards of 600k people across the country graduating High School every single year that are actually illegally here. Most of those arrived in the US before the age of 2, and completely view themselves as American. Many of them don't even realize that they are undocumented.
I don't think deportation for merely being here is good enough reason to do so, especially where children are involved. How much is being spent federally for little to no "gain"? Undocumented workers, illegal aliens, bring in Billions of dollars to State and Local tax coffers and the economy. That is money that I don't think this country can afford to lose.
2015/11/01 23:56:45
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
d-usa wrote: Raising the minimum wage will cripple the economy and destroy small businesses. Destroying a giant supply of cheap labor will be fine because businesses can easily deal with increased costs.
Makes sense....somewhere....
Justifying our nation actions in not enforcing the immigration laws because we like our food cheap... is...
what?
Hypocritical in the worst ways?
gak man, I've advocated to keep the illegals here, as long as they're not criminals (besides being here illegally), pay a fine, and get legal residence status (but not voting rights). THen, get in line if you want to be citizen and do it the right way.
We can tweak this process to make it work better, but at the same time we shouldn't create a massive incentive to folks to come here illegally... that includes throwing the fething books at places like restarunts if they knowingly hire illegals.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/01 23:57:15
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/11/02 00:03:53
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
whembly wrote: that includes throwing the fething books at places like restarunts if they knowingly hire illegals.
Thing is, I've just been told about a guy who was in the US illegally, went to college, got a Bachelor's AND a Masters, worked for NYT, WaPo and other "prestigious" newspapers for over a decade; all while being undocumented. He has since gone and done things the right way.... But my point is, "proving" that a person is here illegally may be more complicated that you make it seem.
Another problem is, if you go after restaurants for hiring illegals, what are you going to do about companies like Dole, Chiquita, etc. who make extensive use of illegal and migrant workers in their fields all to "keep prices low"?
2015/11/02 00:09:31
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
whembly wrote: that includes throwing the fething books at places like restarunts if they knowingly hire illegals.
Thing is, I've just been told about a guy who was in the US illegally, went to college, got a Bachelor's AND a Masters, worked for NYT, WaPo and other "prestigious" newspapers for over a decade; all while being undocumented. He has since gone and done things the right way.... But my point is, "proving" that a person is here illegally may be more complicated that you make it seem.
Mandate E-Verify system at all locations.
It's in place in some industry... in state of Missouri, I had to prove it.
Another problem is, if you go after restaurants for hiring illegals, what are you going to do about companies like Dole, Chiquita, etc. who make extensive use of illegal and migrant workers in their fields all to "keep prices low"?
Deal with it. Seriously, the industry will adapt.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/02 00:31:03
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/11/02 00:15:09
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
d-usa wrote: Raising the minimum wage will cripple the economy and destroy small businesses. Destroying a giant supply of cheap labor will be fine because businesses can easily deal with increased costs.
Makes sense....somewhere....
Justifying our nation actions in not enforcing the immigration laws because we like our food cheap... is...
what?
Hypocritical in the worst ways?
gak man, I've advocated to keep the illegals here, as long as they're not criminals (besides being here illegally), pay a fine, and get legal residence status (but not voting rights). THen, get in line if you want to be citizen and do it the right way.
We can tweak this process to make it work better, but at the same time we shouldn't create a massive incentive to folks to come here illegally... that includes throwing the fething books at places like restarunts if they knowingly hire illegals.
That doesn't make it any less idiotic to argue that increased labor cost due to minimum wage laws would destroy the economy, but that increased labor costs due to a shift in the labor pool wouldn't.
Increased costs will have the same effect, and arguing that one reason will be the end of business while another won't have a catastrophic effect is bordering on schizophrenia. The economy won't care if you agree with the political reason or not, and I'm not even arguing for or against it.
Just pointing out that there is no reason to take anyone serious if they claim that increased labor costs are horrible while at the same time claiming that increased costs are no big deal.
2015/11/02 00:27:22
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
Just pointing out that there is no reason to take anyone serious if they claim that increased labor costs are horrible while at the same time claiming that increased costs are no big deal.
I didn't say it was "horrible".
I said the industry would deal... just like all the other major changes that were discovered.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2015/11/02 01:32:14
Subject: The Political Junkie™ Thread - USA Edition
So the restaurant industry should get a pass because they have exploited a source of illicit labour, and become dependant upon it to maximize their revenue? That is not a sustainable business model.
What happens to their restaurants then if the source of their labour becomes legitimate, and eligible for higher wages? Do we need to turn a blind eye to a new set of illegal immigrants coming in to drive down the wage costs for these businesses?