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 Accolade wrote:
I just want to start seeing Unbound armies with Harlequins riding in Land Raiders again.

Unfortunately can't be done, even in unbound.

Niiru wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
I just want to start seeing Unbound armies with Harlequins riding in Land Raiders again.

Unfortunately can't be done, even in unbound.

Alas. Well, seeing as the current army formation system is so open to abuse now, I don't think I'd be all that offended playing a Super-Unbound list if it duplicated the old 1st edition stuff.

 Accolade wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
I just want to start seeing Unbound armies with Harlequins riding in Land Raiders again.

Unfortunately can't be done, even in unbound.

Alas. Well, seeing as the current army formation system is so open to abuse now, I don't think I'd be all that offended playing a Super-Unbound list if it duplicated the old 1st edition stuff.

Well in a friendly game, anything is ok with opponents consent. Make it fluffy and look cool and I'm sure it'll be ok haha.

I'm curious to see how they're going to function, unless shadowseers or some sort of formations basically makes them immune to being shot at.

The Solitaire looks kinda scary for a second, but he's probably going to get killed before he can get into anything, though the idea of a potential turn-7 move+charge distance of 60" with 12 attacks is hilarious.


Overall, I'm guessing this will be another "Militarum Tempestus" style release, where an Elites unit gets made into its own army but won't actually work as anything but an Allied detachment.

 Vaktathi wrote:
I'm curious to see how they're going to function, unless shadowseers or some sort of formations basically makes them immune to being shot at.

The Solitaire looks kinda scary for a second, but he's probably going to get killed before he can get into anything, though the idea of a potential turn-7 move+charge distance of 60" with 12 attacks is hilarious.


Overall, I'm guessing this will be another "Militarum Tempestus" style release, where an Elites unit gets made into its own army but won't actually work as anything but an Allied detachment.

The solitaire to me seems like an assassin. Can be killed but is a scary unit if it does its job.

 BlackTalos wrote:
Maybe just me having a moment, but what does:

-May take one item from the Enigmas of the Black Library list.

Refer to?
page 27 of the WD? Or an items list not yet released? (WD54?)

Last posts on pages always get missed -_-

Anyone?

Wouldn't it be scary if they had something like +3 cover or permanent invisibility in relic form. I wonder what their two seat jetbikes do.

 BlackTalos wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
Maybe just me having a moment, but what does:

-May take one item from the Enigmas of the Black Library list.

Refer to?
page 27 of the WD? Or an items list not yet released? (WD54?)

Last posts on pages always get missed -_-

Anyone?

An as-yet unseen Relics list, presumably.

Makumba wrote:
Wouldn't it be scary if they had something like +3 cover or permanent invisibility in relic form. I wonder what their two seat jetbikes do.

The Mantle of the Laughing God is pretty much a no-brainer for a relic. It'd be perfect for the Solitaire, too, as he's the ultimate servant of the Laughing God.

I think it will be more a case of relying on transports to get them into action. Why would GW make a rule that gets them there when they can sell several kits and make money at it too?

I always thought Mantle was there to allow players to field a Solitaire, which now has a model... Enigmas wouldn't need it.

Rules on the Skyweaver Jetbikes just went up! Quoted from the source:

WS5 BS4 T4 W2 I6 Sv4+
100pts gets you 2 skyweavers and you may take up to 4 more.
any model can replace the star bolas-12"S6 AP2 blast 1/use only but in addition to bikes guns, with a zephyrglaive-S+1/User AP2/3 Melee. first numbers are for the round they charge

any jetbike can replace the shuriken cannon with a Haywire Cannon 24"S4 AP4 blast haywire

Wargear, each one comes with a Holo-suit, star bolas, mirage launchers-1/game 4++vs shooting, and a skyweaver jetbike

fear, furious charge, and hit and run are the special rules.

(Note: remember that Furious Charge makes those Zephyrglaives hit as a total of S5 on the charge)

Looks promising, but, yeesh, that price... for the cost of three of these, I could get six Reavers with Cluster Caltrops and Blasters, which is the same number of wounds. Based on that comparison, I'm expecting the key role of the Skyweavers to be as a fast, mobile platform for their Shuriken/Haywire Cannons. Basically seems like a Wound-based alternative to the Vyper, though I'm not really sure who comes out ahead on that one.

Hmm not too sure about those rules... seems way too expensive? Can be instant deathed, no decent armour save, so those 2 wounds dont seem worthwhile

50 ppm? Seems like an improved Vyper, but not by much...

Niiru wrote:
Hmm not too sure about those rules... seems way too expensive? Can be instant deathed, no decent armour save, so those 2 wounds dont seem worthwhile

Kinda my initial thoughts, too. :/ Though we have no idea how many attacks they get with two models on the bike - could be the Jetbike standard 2 (which would be terrible), the more likely 3 (which would be okay), or, unlikely, 4 (which would be amazing in cc). I just really really hope they have either Flip Belts or grenades, or else they'll end up being the Incubi of this Codex.

EDIT: Confirmed, 3 attacks but no Grenades or Flip Belts. These are going to be dedicated ranged units, with Hit & Run just to get them out of trouble if they get assaulted. Still, incredibly mobile Shuriken Cannons on a decently durable platform could synergize quite nicely with our assault-oriented murder clowns...

Haywire Cannons to peel open the transports, spilling the contents out to be assaulted by the troupes.
Star Bolas are basically 1 shot D-Grenades, great potential for killing bunched up Heavy/Medium Infantry.

I see them as a potential anti-alpha strike unit, speeding across to eliminate deep-striking threats in the back-field and grabbing objectives.

Does this happen much where a unit exists in two different sources with different profiles/rules? I thought they were a bit different in 5th ed DE and 6th ed Eldar.

I realllllly want them to be awesome, so I can have some CC that isn't Grotesques.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or Wyches (aka "death by a thousand annoying pinches").

 Doomaflatchi wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Hmm not too sure about those rules... seems way too expensive? Can be instant deathed, no decent armour save, so those 2 wounds dont seem worthwhile

Kinda my initial thoughts, too. :/ Though we have no idea how many attacks they get with two models on the bike - could be the Jetbike standard 2 (which would be terrible), the more likely 3 (which would be okay), or, unlikely, 4 (which would be amazing in cc). I just really really hope they have either Flip Belts or grenades, or else they'll end up being the Incubi of this Codex.

EDIT: Confirmed, 3 attacks but no Grenades or Flip Belts. These are going to be dedicated ranged units, with Hit & Run just to get them out of trouble if they get assaulted. Still, incredibly mobile Shuriken Cannons on a decently durable platform could synergize quite nicely with our assault-oriented murder clowns...

But... dont eldar already have incredibly mobile shuriken cannons for cheaper? As in, nornal jetbikes. And as tbey are cheaper, you can carry more of them, and so the unit is also more durable?

Niiru wrote:

 Doomaflatchi wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Hmm not too sure about those rules... seems way too expensive? Can be instant deathed, no decent armour save, so those 2 wounds dont seem worthwhile

Kinda my initial thoughts, too. :/ Though we have no idea how many attacks they get with two models on the bike - could be the Jetbike standard 2 (which would be terrible), the more likely 3 (which would be okay), or, unlikely, 4 (which would be amazing in cc). I just really really hope they have either Flip Belts or grenades, or else they'll end up being the Incubi of this Codex.

EDIT: Confirmed, 3 attacks but no Grenades or Flip Belts. These are going to be dedicated ranged units, with Hit & Run just to get them out of trouble if they get assaulted. Still, incredibly mobile Shuriken Cannons on a decently durable platform could synergize quite nicely with our assault-oriented murder clowns...

But... dont eldar already have incredibly mobile shuriken cannons for cheaper? As in, nornal jetbikes. And as tbey are cheaper, you can carry more of them, and so the unit is also more durable?

Well, sort of. A unit of jetbikes is 51 points, so 1 point higher, then a 10 point add on for the cannon. But you get an extra wound and a better save (but no invuln, obv) for those 11 points. The Harlies have better potential in combat due to hit and run and 3 attacks base, but lose out on points-per-wound efficiency. Why not run both, though? They seem to have different roles. Joining a warlock on a bike for conceal also has some promise.

 Asmodas wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 Doomaflatchi wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Hmm not too sure about those rules... seems way too expensive? Can be instant deathed, no decent armour save, so those 2 wounds dont seem worthwhile

Kinda my initial thoughts, too. :/ Though we have no idea how many attacks they get with two models on the bike - could be the Jetbike standard 2 (which would be terrible), the more likely 3 (which would be okay), or, unlikely, 4 (which would be amazing in cc). I just really really hope they have either Flip Belts or grenades, or else they'll end up being the Incubi of this Codex.

EDIT: Confirmed, 3 attacks but no Grenades or Flip Belts. These are going to be dedicated ranged units, with Hit & Run just to get them out of trouble if they get assaulted. Still, incredibly mobile Shuriken Cannons on a decently durable platform could synergize quite nicely with our assault-oriented murder clowns...

But... dont eldar already have incredibly mobile shuriken cannons for cheaper? As in, nornal jetbikes. And as tbey are cheaper, you can carry more of them, and so the unit is also more durable?

Well, sort of. A unit of jetbikes is 51 points, so 1 point higher, then a 10 point add on for the cannon. But you get an extra wound and a better save (but no invuln, obv) for those 11 points. The Harlies have better potential in combat due to hit and run and 3 attacks base, but lose out on points-per-wound efficiency. Why not run both, though? They seem to have different roles. Joining a warlock on a bike for conceal also has some promise.

I was more thinking of why not run none. Windriders at 51 points have a role, windriders with shuriken cannon don't.

And we'll see if those harlie jetbikes are worth a cent, but they'll need to do a lot more than compare acceptably with windriders as combat troops.

Played a 250 point game with just a 5 man unit of harlis,2 with the kiss, and the solitaire. Fought 7 grey knight termis with one psi cannon. Tabled him top of turn 3, the caress on the solitaire the turn it blitzes is BRUTAL! The harlis hit like a ton of bricks, I believe I still would have won, but he actively tried to get into melee I stead of shooting. Cue maniacal laughter

morgoth wrote:

 Asmodas wrote:

Niiru wrote:

 Doomaflatchi wrote:

Niiru wrote:
Hmm not too sure about those rules... seems way too expensive? Can be instant deathed, no decent armour save, so those 2 wounds dont seem worthwhile

Kinda my initial thoughts, too. :/ Though we have no idea how many attacks they get with two models on the bike - could be the Jetbike standard 2 (which would be terrible), the more likely 3 (which would be okay), or, unlikely, 4 (which would be amazing in cc). I just really really hope they have either Flip Belts or grenades, or else they'll end up being the Incubi of this Codex.

EDIT: Confirmed, 3 attacks but no Grenades or Flip Belts. These are going to be dedicated ranged units, with Hit & Run just to get them out of trouble if they get assaulted. Still, incredibly mobile Shuriken Cannons on a decently durable platform could synergize quite nicely with our assault-oriented murder clowns...

But... dont eldar already have incredibly mobile shuriken cannons for cheaper? As in, nornal jetbikes. And as tbey are cheaper, you can carry more of them, and so the unit is also more durable?

Well, sort of. A unit of jetbikes is 51 points, so 1 point higher, then a 10 point add on for the cannon. But you get an extra wound and a better save (but no invuln, obv) for those 11 points. The Harlies have better potential in combat due to hit and run and 3 attacks base, but lose out on points-per-wound efficiency. Why not run both, though? They seem to have different roles. Joining a warlock on a bike for conceal also has some promise.

I was more thinking of why not run none. Windriders at 51 points have a role, windriders with shuriken cannon don't.

And we'll see if those harlie jetbikes are worth a cent, but they'll need to do a lot more than compare acceptably with windriders as combat troops.

Yeah, I'm not sold on the bikes yet, although I want to like them. I just realized the Warlock trick doesn't work because they can't join the bikes (they can only join specific units, including jetbikes, guardians, etc.). Oh well. I'm starting to think that the Haywire/Bola option may be the way to go, as it at least gives them a distinct roll - transport popping so the Harlies can charge the contents, plus anti-heavy infantry with the bolas, then use the assault move to get away.

I'd like to play Harlequins too, they have awesome models.
Not the jetbikes, I don't find them aesthetically acceptable, they remind me too much of the old ugly harlequin jetbikes.

It's going to come down to the Starweaver and the overall competitiveness of the deal.

If it's a beautiful vehicle and/or if they're an acceptable CC option for Eldar, I'd love to have them.

If they're just another overly expensive underperforming option for Eldar to fail in Assault, I'll skip until they become playable.

I remember ten years ago, there was a group of players at EldarOnline discussing issues concerning Eldar, DE, and Harlies.
At that time we would have highly appreciated a Harlie codex.
Rasmus made a very nice Harlie codex but his ideas never got implemented.
I played several games according to the Gav Thorpe experimental codex.
I wonder if Mimes and Wraithlords as in Gav's codex will show up.

SM players here complaining about the Harlie release I would like to suggest playing a Harlie army for test purposes.
They would give them some insight about fielding tactically a fast moving and deadly army.
SM armies on the other hand are often based on Pods and require a much different thinking.

And now, 1 week on, the skyweaver jetbike rules are officially released. I don't think there was anything in there we didn't already expect from the rumours. Shuriken Cannons all round, 4+/5++ saves, two wounds.

They seem to have some sort of rule that takes the place of jink... but it is worse? Mirage Launchers, once per game you can use them and you get a 4++ for that turn against shooting... but if you jinked it would be a 3++, so I'm not sure why you would use it.

the new skyweaver minis are DOPE!!!

Well the mirage launchers do work against ignore cover weapons as they are invulnerable saves against all shooting

Niiru wrote:
And now, 1 week on, the skyweaver jetbike rules are officially released. I don't think there was anything in there we didn't already expect from the rumours. Shuriken Cannons all round, 4+/5++ saves, two wounds.

They seem to have some sort of rule that takes the place of jink... but it is worse? Mirage Launchers, once per game you can use them and you get a 4++ for that turn against shooting... but if you jinked it would be a 3++, so I'm not sure why you would use it.

They are not skilled Rider, so it's a 4+ Jink. Jink is a cover save, so ignored by some weapons. Jink forces you to snap fire so no blasts or hit on 6's. E.G Mirage Launcher is a good item.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

Niiru wrote:
And now, 1 week on, the skyweaver jetbike rules are officially released. I don't think there was anything in there we didn't already expect from the rumours. Shuriken Cannons all round, 4+/5++ saves, two wounds.

They seem to have some sort of rule that takes the place of jink... but it is worse? Mirage Launchers, once per game you can use them and you get a 4++ for that turn against shooting... but if you jinked it would be a 3++, so I'm not sure why you would use it.

They are not skilled Rider, so it's a 4+ Jink. Jink is a cover save, so ignored by some weapons. Jink forces you to snap fire so no blasts or hit on 6's. E.G Mirage Launcher is a good item.

Ahh of course, kinda obvious when I look at it again, I was just reading it as an alternative jink, but its an invulnerable not a cover. No snap firing is nice too.

Pardon my inexperience, quick question.

As Harlies are listed in the Eldar Codex are we supposed to use these new rules for all our Harlies or does this constitute an entirely new army requiring a separate FOC for my Eldar?