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Hello. What is the most cheese in an CSM army? Because i don't want to use cheesey units if i don't have to. for example, is the Chaos Sicaran Cheese? or maybe the Heldrake?

The heldrake is no where near as cheesy as it once (45 degree firing arc nerf) was now just being a good unit.

Outside of some of the things forgeworld has to offer, nothing really stands out as cheesy.

Be'lakor is really good but he also costs a lot of point

I suppose some of the builds that can be made via the crimson slaughter supplement could be considered cheesy (like giving the daemon USR to a sorceror and "safely" spawning daemons off of daemonology) but all in all, I think Chaos lacks any real cheese (unless you're using be'lakor to do something like make invisible titans or the like)

Heldrakes are still ridiculously ridiculous, you just need to know how to use them. They usually win back three times their points for me before they are killed. They're just not automatic killing machines for people who have no understanding of tactics anymore.

 King Pariah wrote:
The heldrake is no where near as cheesy as it once (45 degree firing arc nerf) was now just being a good unit.

Outside of some of the things forgeworld has to offer, nothing really stands out as cheesy.

Can you give me some examples of units from forgeworld?

Cheese you say?
You can do some stupid stuff with chaos lists, although not so much the marines.

The 2+ invulnerable save is a good example, which can be obtained in number of ways, and can even be re rollable. It can even be combined with invisibility to make a unit that is as close to invincible as can be imagined.

Many still think of summoning as cheesy. If you have enough models you can build lists that allow for summoning 3/4 additional units a turn. This can get silly quickly.

Renegades also allow you to really flood the board with bodies. At 3ppm you can get a lot of dudes for real board control. They also have multiple ways of being made fearless.

There are many good forgeworld vehicles but none I would call cheesy. The blood slaughterers ability to assault from deepstrike could be a surprise for some players. (Especially if invisible with a 2++)

mane11354 wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
The heldrake is no where near as cheesy as it once (45 degree firing arc nerf) was now just being a good unit.

Outside of some of the things forgeworld has to offer, nothing really stands out as cheesy.

Can you give me some examples of units from forgeworld?

The Fire Raptor is pretty damn good.

mane11354 wrote:

 King Pariah wrote:
The heldrake is no where near as cheesy as it once (45 degree firing arc nerf) was now just being a good unit.

Outside of some of the things forgeworld has to offer, nothing really stands out as cheesy.

Can you give me some examples of units from forgeworld?

I guess everyone's line in the cheese is different, I certainly don't consider anything in IA13 (which is the main Chaos book) to be cheesy, but there are strong units.

Chiefly, the Sicaran will give Waveserpents a bad time, which makes it a very solid choice. The Hellblade is worth a second look, as is the Fire Raptor (ties with the Sicaran for strongest unit in the book IMO.) Plus you have the Dreadclaw and Kharybdis which solve the "no drop pods" issue that CSM players have long lamented, albeit at a points premium (but with a little extra flexibility as they're not immobile after they've dropped.)

There's a lot of stuff in IA13, much of which will never see tourney play, but there's very little that's outright rubbish either.

Lots of marine players for years (including myself) have been saying that we need an assault vehicle cheaper than 250pts. Now we have one. That has a 18" flatout, can move over difficult/dangerous/impassible terrain without worry, deepstrikes, has AV12 all round and a 4+ jink. For 2/5ths the cost of a LR. And many are complaining that it is too expensive.
Personally (not used it yet so this is all academic) on paper, I think it is pretty close to cheese. I just think because it has drop pod in the title it misleads people into using it as a drop pod.
Im talking about the dreadclaw 'drop pod' btw.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Lots of marine players for years (including myself) have been saying that we need an assault vehicle cheaper than 250pts. Now we have one. That has a 18" flatout, can move over difficult/dangerous/impassible terrain without worry, deepstrikes, has AV12 all round and a 4+ jink. For 2/5ths the cost of a LR. And many are complaining that it is too expensive.
Personally (not used it yet so this is all academic) on paper, I think it is pretty close to cheese. I just think because it has drop pod in the title it misleads people into using it as a drop pod.
Im talking about the dreadclaw 'drop pod' btw.

Never really realized that it's more of an assault vehicle than an drop pod. It makes the dreadclaw worth a lot more in my book now thanks to you now i can finaly use my berzerker without taking the expensive landraider

There is a lot of cheese in CSM but it isn't talked about much due to the overdone Tau hate (and justified Eldar hate).

SGTPozy wrote:
There is a lot of cheese in CSM but it isn't talked about much due to the overdone Tau hate (and justified Eldar hate).

Can you give an example?

mane11354 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
There is a lot of cheese in CSM but it isn't talked about much due to the overdone Tau hate (and justified Eldar hate).

Can you give an example?

Just one? Heldrake. Although it was nerfed it is still extremely cheesy.

Another one? Belakor.

A third? The black mace Daemon Prince.

Perhaps you should set up a thread with a poll, SGTPozy...

 Azreal13 wrote:
Perhaps you should set up a thread with a poll, SGTPozy...

Great idea!

mane11354 wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Lots of marine players for years (including myself) have been saying that we need an assault vehicle cheaper than 250pts. Now we have one. That has a 18" flatout, can move over difficult/dangerous/impassible terrain without worry, deepstrikes, has AV12 all round and a 4+ jink. For 2/5ths the cost of a LR. And many are complaining that it is too expensive.
Personally (not used it yet so this is all academic) on paper, I think it is pretty close to cheese. I just think because it has drop pod in the title it misleads people into using it as a drop pod.
Im talking about the dreadclaw 'drop pod' btw.

Never really realized that it's more of an assault vehicle than an drop pod. It makes the dreadclaw worth a lot more in my book now thanks to you now i can finaly use my berzerker without taking the expensive landraider

Glad I could be of service :-)!

The Sicaran isn't cheese, it's crackers! You use it against cheese!

The Heldrake is brie, it's a rather mild cheese.

 ChazSexington wrote:
The Sicaran isn't cheese, it's crackers! You use it against cheese!

The Heldrake is brie, it's a rather mild cheese.

Haha this is excellent!

.

Yes I do. Remember that cheese =/= OP.

stopcallingmechief wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

mane11354 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
There is a lot of cheese in CSM but it isn't talked about much due to the overdone Tau hate (and justified Eldar hate).

Can you give an example?

Just one? Heldrake. Although it was nerfed it is still extremely cheesy.

Another one? Belakor.

A third? The black mace Daemon Prince.

what a joke this opinion is. Do you even play warhammer 40k?

He doesn't know what cheese is, hence he keeps starting Poll threads asking if various things are cheese, so he can find out!

 Azreal13 wrote:

stopcallingmechief wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

mane11354 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
There is a lot of cheese in CSM but it isn't talked about much due to the overdone Tau hate (and justified Eldar hate).

Can you give an example?

Just one? Heldrake. Although it was nerfed it is still extremely cheesy.

Another one? Belakor.

A third? The black mace Daemon Prince.

what a joke this opinion is. Do you even play warhammer 40k?

He doesn't know what cheese is, hence he keeps starting Poll threads asking if various things are cheese, so he can find out!

This is cheese. You say "keeps" yet I haven't made one in months since I do not need to now.

Ok, so the thread you made about cheese today doesn't have a poll attached, a distinction without a difference if you ask me.

Oh, and if you're going to post massive, non-wargaming related, images? Winners use spoiler tags.

You said "poll threads" and that wasn't a poll thread. This means that my statement is still correct.

I didn't expect it to be that big .

Nobody likes a pedant.

Nobody likes it when you step in dog poop... Your turn.