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2015/05/03 21:18:55
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie Thread- UK Edition! General Election Discussion P4 Onwards...
That tombstone was millibands 'Kinnock' moment i think, a lot of swinging voters will see that and just go 'NOPE'.
As for tactical voting i am voting Lib Dem up in Gordon, even though i am more of a Tory, but my feet are in both camps.
This is the first time i have actually voted with some thought, rather than just Tory to try and get more parity against the Labour huge Majority of the last 15 years, i am a small c conservative, and i dont agree with everything the tories have done, BUT the Lab\SNP idea terrifies me on an economical viewpoint.
Increased borrowing will lead to a rise in inflation and as a result a rise in Interest rates.
I am buying my first house in a couple of years, and a 2-3% interest rate increase could mean a house i have just bought, could see a three fold increase in mortgage payments meaning i would get turfed out again as soon as i got it.
TBF though, there is also an element of 'Anyone but Salmond' up here too.
2015/05/04 16:00:52
Subject: The Political Junkie Thread- UK Edition! General Election Discussion P4 Onwards...
You know Russel Brand? That guy that keeps telling people not to vote? He's now changed his mind, presumably after his interview, and is urging people to vote Labour...
I personally don't have much time for his commentary (and as the article notes, perhaps this is a waste if his followers have taken his previous advice and not actually registered to vote), but I guess it does say something about Milliband if he's convinced one of the most high-profile non-voters that he's worth backing.
More amusingly, I'm wondering how much DC is now regretting his comment that he 'didn't have time to hang out' with Brand...
2015/05/04 16:04:35
Subject: The Political Junkie Thread- UK Edition! General Election Discussion P4 Onwards...
Paradigm wrote: You know Russel Brand? That guy that keeps telling people not to vote? He's now changed his mind, presumably after his interview, and is urging people to vote Labour...
I personally don't have much time for his commentary (and as the article notes, perhaps this is a waste if his followers have taken his previous advice and not actually registered to vote), but I guess it does say something about Milliband if he's convinced one of the most high-profile non-voters that he's worth backing.
More amusingly, I'm wondering how much DC is now regretting his comment that he 'didn't have time to hang out' with Brand...
And to prove that Brand is even more of a hypocrite, here is a report of the time he insulted Ed Balls and how Ed Balls insulted him back.
You could be forgiven for thinking that Miliband is deliberately trying to lose this election.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/05/04 16:55:34
Subject: The Political Junkie Thread- UK Edition! General Election Discussion P4 Onwards...
Paradigm wrote: Hang on, what's Frenchgate? Think I missed that one.
Long story short. Daily Telegraph ran a story that smeared Nicola Sturgeon. It turned out to be a load of bull.
Even after it had been proved to be bull, Ed was still using it to attack Sturgeon.
Everybody laughed at Ed
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/04 17:02:24
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/05/04 17:03:24
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie Thread- UK Edition! General Election Discussion P4 Onwards...
Co'tor Shas wrote: Wait, that's a scandal in the UK? Here in the US, that's how presidential campaigns are run.
We've got standards here in the UK
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/05/04 17:06:34
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie Thread- UK Edition! General Election Discussion P4 Onwards...
Co'tor Shas wrote: Wait, that's a scandal in the UK? Here in the US, that's how presidential campaigns are run.
We've got standards here in the UK
Standards? In a election? What are you, civilized, free-thinkers?!
No.
We are British, hurr hurr.
Some of us don't want to be British, though.
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/05/04 17:42:31
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie Thread- UK Edition! General Election Discussion P4 Onwards...
I love Britain, and I always will. I just want Scotland to run its own affairs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/04 17:49:46
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/05/04 17:57:55
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie Thread- UK Edition! General Election Discussion P4 Onwards...
Still reckon it's going to be a big old mess come Friday morning. I would go as far as to predict we will have to have another election in a years time as it will all fall apart. They will only have themselves to blame as none of them really stand for anything anymore, it's all about saying what needs to be said to get into power.
Live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about his religion. Respect others in their views and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life. Beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and of service to your people. When your time comes to die, be not like those whose hearts are filled with fear of death, so that when their time comes they weep and pray for a little more time to live their lives over again in a different way. Sing your death song, and die like a hero going home.
Lt. Rorke - Act of Valor
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2015/05/04 19:48:34
Subject: The Political Junkie Thread- UK Edition! General Election Discussion P4 Onwards...
Looks that way. Latest news on Britain's economy is that it's growth has slowed down, too. Eurozone is growing faster, at present.
So not sure the Tories fabled economic prowess is really all that solid. Not that Labour had any particularly good ideas at the time anyway, being basically the same as the Tories these days but with slightly different PR.
I wonder what way the public will react if an unstable government is created.
The Tories' fabled economic prowess is not that solid. They have prolonged the recession by their austerity measures while also not really tackling the deficit. They have done nothing about stimulating increases in productivity.
Things are getting better because that is what happens. Regression to the mean, not genius economic guidance from the government in the past five years.
Wolfstan is pretty much on the button in my opinion, only I think there is a reasonable chance someone might put together a coalition that will last longer than a year.
If the government spending is in deficit there are several ways to address the problem.
1. Increase taxes.
2. Reduce spending.
3. Grow the economy, as this causes tax receipts to increase naturally without raising the level of taxation.
The Tories chose to try and decrease spending which had the expected effect of shrinking the economy so that tax receipts dropped about as fast as spending.
Kilkrazy wrote: If the government spending is in deficit there are several ways to address the problem.
1. Increase taxes.
2. Reduce spending.
3. Grow the economy, as this causes tax receipts to increase naturally without raising the level of taxation.
The Tories chose to try and decrease spending which had the expected effect of shrinking the economy so that tax receipts dropped about as fast as spending.
This is what confuses the hell out of me when it comes to economics. In order to reduce your debts, you have to spend more, thus getting into more debt, in order to reduce your previous debt
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/05/05 10:49:57
Subject: The Political Junkie Thread- UK Edition! General Election Discussion P4 Onwards...
Kilkrazy wrote: If the government spending is in deficit there are several ways to address the problem.
1. Increase taxes.
2. Reduce spending.
3. Grow the economy, as this causes tax receipts to increase naturally without raising the level of taxation.
The Tories chose to try and decrease spending which had the expected effect of shrinking the economy so that tax receipts dropped about as fast as spending.
This is what confuses the hell out of me when it comes to economics. In order to reduce your debts, you have to spend more, thus getting into more debt, in order to reduce your previous debt
No one is going to be able to touch the UK debt not till we're in surplus. Labour actually aren't planning on getting rid of the deficit in their term in office.
The simple fact is the government spends more in tax than it takes in tax, there are only 2 ways to fix that, 1 raise taxes, 2 cut services. I'd rather services were cut than pay more tax.
Conservatives will do that, that's why I'm voting for them. Labour will do neither, and have shown no plan to run a budget surplus so will keep borrowing. Hoping that nothing will go wrong for the world in the next 5+ years.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/05/05 10:54:08
We love what we love. Reason does not enter into it. In many ways, unwise love is the truest love. Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket. But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.
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2015/05/05 11:09:22
Subject: The Political Junkie Thread- UK Edition! General Election Discussion P4 Onwards...
The reason why the government should not reduce spending in a recession is that a recession comes about when private business is contracting, spending less on salaries, investment and research, etc. All that unspent money results in further contraction as people are thrown out of work, firms get reduced orders for goods and services, and so on in a vicious circle.
One effect of the contraction is reduced tax receipts leading to an increased deficit.
This effect can be offset by the government spending to get the economy moving again.
The conservatives were in fact forced to do this in the form of quantitative easing when their policy of austerity failed in the first couple of years.
The important thing in the long term is to get the economy growing, get people back to work with growing incomes, and eventually the government can run a surplus and pay down the national debt.
Kilkrazy wrote: If the government spending is in deficit there are several ways to address the problem.
1. Increase taxes.
2. Reduce spending.
3. Grow the economy, as this causes tax receipts to increase naturally without raising the level of taxation.
The Tories chose to try and decrease spending which had the expected effect of shrinking the economy so that tax receipts dropped about as fast as spending.
The issue is, and many fall into this trap, Debt and deficit are not the same, and you cannot reduce debt until you remove the deficit.
Debt will always increase as the interest creates more debt, the deficit wont be cleared until the govt reduces spending, i.e. equals its income and outgoing against GDP.
This was always going to be how the problem was fixed, the fact that Labour and the SNP have stated they wont increase taxes yet increase spending is what makes their economic plan laughable.
To increase borrowing to flood money into the economy in the form of publisc borrowing to spend is a false economy, as it will only lead to the situation we had in 2007\8 where the economy was indebted tot he hilt and the money train was still going full tilt, it had to break.
The tories have to borrow still to ensure the public sector doesnt simply fall over due to the increase in its size during the last labour governments, they have to reduce that spending gradually.
An increase in taxes would help, however increase in taxation will lead to a reduction in consumer spending (less money in their pockets), so it would be a double whammy of reduced public spending AND a reduction in money in the public pocket.
What the lab\Lib govt did was to increase the limit that people can earn before being taxed, and have increased the taxation on the top earners (though the press would have you believe this isnt so. The tories have increased tax take on higher earners to a greater degree than labour ever have, the press however bang on about corporation tax, they forget that the greater volume of tax comes from the public taxayers, of which the top earners provide more to the state than all mid to low earners combined! Due to the % system of tax, 10% of 100 is a LOT less than 10% of £10,000, but people decry the rish should pay more, they already do, to a high degree.
Its envy politics and it blinds the public into pointing the finger at th top 1% and business, when in fact the blame lies solely at Labours feet creating a debt mountain that will take decades to clear.
Also if Labour\SNP go ahead with their plans, increased borrowing, then inflation and interest rates MUST rise, its an economic certainy, this will lead to already struggling homeowners paying mortgages to foreclose and lose their homes in large numbers, the laready fragile economy which is largely built on home ownership loans, would crash, worse than in 2008 and Britain, which was in a deeper economic hole than Greece in 2008 (but with the strength of a seperate currency (£) and having excellent historical credit was able to not fall into the debt hole the 'PIGS' group did. If a second crash in the housing market happened, we will end up like Greece!
The economic argument that we can spend our way back to propserity is laughable in our current state, let the deficit be cleared at least, then worry about borrowing to increase NHS spending for example.
The Tories may not be perfect, but they have proven time and again, they sort out the economic mess left by the Labour government for 5 occasions in history, going back to 70's era labour spending will doom our economy for a generation.
I dont care who you vote for but remember increased public borrowing will result in your mortgage probably doubling within 5 years.
2015/05/05 11:26:44
Subject: Re:The Political Junkie Thread- UK Edition! General Election Discussion P4 Onwards...
You will see that the recent rapid increase occurred under the conservative s, not labour govt and the previous most rapid increase occurred under the Major govt.
How does this show Tory economic management in a good light?
