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Personally I think that in today's current meta terminators are a meh unit for their price and they could definitely use some changes.( personally I think they should be t5 with 2 wounds but I'm biased )
How do you guys think they should be fixed? I want to see what dakkas proposed rules forumites say what would make them a viable unit again.

I would just drop them a few points, and leave them at that. Centurions were created for T5 goodness and 2 wounds so if ya do that, you're making centurions pointless. Termies are not the greatest unit because they struggle to make their points back, and one bad dice roll is the end of your teminators. 5+ invuln isn't gonna save you either, mabye save 1 or 2 termies.

Rereading this, I'm saying you should drop termies a few points and give them SOMETHING to make them slightly less squishy like a better invuln or even better a FNP. Hope this helps


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I would just drop them a few points, and leave them at that. Centurions were created for T5 goodness and 2 wounds so if ya do that, you're making centurions pointless. Termies are not the greatest unit because they struggle to make their points back, and one bad dice roll is the end of your teminators. 5+ invuln isn't gonna save you either, mabye save 1 or 2 termies.

Rereading this, I'm saying you should drop termies a few points and give them SOMETHING to make them slightly less squishy like a better invuln or even better a FNP. Hope this helps

Give shooty terminators real firepower. Make them like Eldar Warwalkers in terms of fire power and let them all have assault cannons. If they can actually hurt their opponent, they don't NEED any extra durability, because their opponent will be dead! As it stands now, they are mighty armor suits with pop guns. Ignorable, and pathetic.

Martel732 wrote:
Give shooty terminators real firepower. Make them like Eldar Warwalkers in terms of fire power and let them all have assault cannons. If they can actually hurt their opponent, they don't NEED any extra durability, because their opponent will be dead! As it stands now, they are mighty armor suits with pop guns. Ignorable, and pathetic.

2 special weapons per 5 would be reasonable. I think 5 AC is just a tad much firepower to be able to DS (turn 1 guaranteed for DA). Jeez, or 5+ CML with a few SS out front.

Outside of that, T5 would make sense and would mildly boost survivability. Upping wounds however is a bit overkill, unless you also jack the points up (paladins). I'd rather have better terminators at the same price than crappy terminators at a lower price.

Id give them a 3+ armour save, 2+ seems way to OP

Why would they have a 3+ save? Then they'd be regular meq with deepstrike. Increasing their invul gives you less reason to take a storm shield( why pay 15 points for a 3+ when you have a 4+ for free) and if you did that then the price of the stormshield would have to drop by probably 5 ppm.
Giving them the options to take more heavy weapons is a definite way to improve them essentially making them devastators that are actually worth taking.

 kingbobbito wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Give shooty terminators real firepower. Make them like Eldar Warwalkers in terms of fire power and let them all have assault cannons. If they can actually hurt their opponent, they don't NEED any extra durability, because their opponent will be dead! As it stands now, they are mighty armor suits with pop guns. Ignorable, and pathetic.

2 special weapons per 5 would be reasonable. I think 5 AC is just a tad much firepower to be able to DS (turn 1 guaranteed for DA). Jeez, or 5+ CML with a few SS out front.

Outside of that, T5 would make sense and would mildly boost survivability. Upping wounds however is a bit overkill, unless you also jack the points up (paladins). I'd rather have better terminators at the same price than crappy terminators at a lower price.

It seems okay for Xenos lists to throw around that many shots. 2 special per 5 is still crap firepower.

The biggest problem with terminators is they are a close combat unit that struggles in close combat. The weapon terminators have that make them so costly is the power fist/twin lightning claws, so points-wise they are fine. It's just that after deep striking, you're going to get shot up. If you want a combat delivery vehicle, you're looking at paying another 240 points just for the ability to do so. Power Fist terminators being unwieldy to the last means they tend to lose a guy or two before getting to attack. Even when you win combat, terminators and any IC attached to them cannot sweeping advance so you HAVE to do all your killing before a unit runs away, or they get another turn to shoot at you.

All that means they are incredibly inefficient for what they theoretically should do best. If they dropped the sweeping advance restriction, terminators would immediately have more value on the table.

That's why I've said this edition, outside of Grey Knights, the best terminators are Space Wolves purely because they are significantly cheaper, and you're not locked in to unwieldy weapons, and you've got the best combat delivery system with them of any of the space marine books in they can just be deployed via Drop Pods.

After looking at what happened to Lychguard and Praetorians.

Reduce Assault Terminators price to 32 points, still 5 points to upgrade to TH/SS.

Reduce Tactical Terminators price to 27 points, but replace their Power Fists with choice of Power Weapon. Power Fists being a 5 point upgrade and Chainfists becoming an 8 point upgrade.

Let both take Drop Pods.

I'd give them +1 strength and toughness, the ability for normal terminators to take combi-weapons (assault 2), the ability to take drop pods as a dedicated transport and either +1 wound or a special rule that says that terminator armour grants a 2+ armour save that is only negated by AP1 weapons (Too OP?).

I think the ap1 thing is op( kinda odd too).

Martel732 wrote:
Give shooty terminators real firepower. Make them like Eldar Warwalkers in terms of fire power and let them all have assault cannons. If they can actually hurt their opponent, they don't NEED any extra durability, because their opponent will be dead! As it stands now, they are mighty armor suits with pop guns. Ignorable, and pathetic.

This is what they need, the ability to do something in the game.
5 terminators with 5 assault cannons would cost 325 pts, but it would not be ignored

I think there should be a rule similar to Relentless that allows certain units to ignore unwieldly. I know MC's do, but when you see a Terminator unloading an auto cannon as he moves, then charging, or better yet his missile launcher(these things should have crazy recoil) it bewilders me that they can't swing a hammer or throw their fists with the same enthusiasm.

Increase their points and make the armor save rerollable. This includes the Invulnerable but doesn't change the number. Against normal weapons they get two chances for 2+ and against AP2 or 1 they get two chances to make 5+. Add in another 15-20pts per model and we have a very rare unit that is overpowered as the fluff but not good enough to be an auto-take.

Seems we all have our own ideas about terminators, lol!


I think we could do this, and it would work. The goal is to make terminators a bit more competitive, without going over the top or straying from the fluff.

Make terminator armour save a 3+ on 2d6 when faced with wounds that do not cause instant death. Against wounds that cause ID, the normal 2+. This way terminators are more resilient to small arms fire, but can still be put down by high str, low ap.

Also, to fix the fluff problem, give terminators greater access to the armoury. These guys are e best right? Why limit their choices? Hey, you are such a good space marine, you get to wear the fancy armour, but you can't have any cool toys. Doesn't make sense. Instead of giving them p fists, drop the points cost by 5 points and give them power weapons. Add an option for the powerfist for 5 points, and chain for 10. This keeps a basic p fist termie the same cost, but allows us to choose power weapons or power fists.

These two things I think, would make terminators viable, or at least make tactical terminators more appealing. In fact with changes such as this, you could ostensibly cut out assault terminators and merge them wi tacticals. But then you wouldn't need two kits to make the ones you wanted...

Start at 35 with a power sword, give them two heavy weapons per five guys, and pump the base Inv to 4+. Simple, not silly, efficient, effective.

darkcloak wrote:
Make terminator armour save a 3+ on 2d6 when faced with wounds that do not cause instant death. Against wounds that cause ID, the normal 2+. This way terminators are more resilient to small arms fire, but can still be put down by high str, low ap.

While this would have the effect of making terminators a bit beefier, it'd also mean a feth ton of rolling. Let's say that terminator squad took 10 wounds from a blob of guard. Since each save is 2d6, you need to either have 10 pairs of different dice, or roll each wound separately. It'd be a lot faster to just reroll fails.

 kingbobbito wrote:

darkcloak wrote:
Make terminator armour save a 3+ on 2d6 when faced with wounds that do not cause instant death. Against wounds that cause ID, the normal 2+. This way terminators are more resilient to small arms fire, but can still be put down by high str, low ap.

While this would have the effect of making terminators a bit beefier, it'd also mean a feth ton of rolling. Let's say that terminator squad took 10 wounds from a blob of guard. Since each save is 2d6, you need to either have 10 pairs of different dice, or roll each wound separately. It'd be a lot faster to just reroll fails.

I used 2d6 in an early draft of Aegis, it quickly became apparent that it's completely infeasible on 40k's scale.

Count them as wraiths.

 koooaei wrote:
Count them as wraiths.

LOL

Martel732 wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Count them as wraiths.

LOL

^ This.

This has come up a lot in recent threads. Imo the best thing to do justice to them would be to change them to 2+ 4++. Then to keep the storm shield viable -give it hammer of wrath, or make it a specialist weapon. Changing the storm bolter to Assault 3 would be a good thing too. All this with appropriate point increases of course. While the power of termies have been poorly represented on the tabletop pretty much since 3rd, I''m not in favour of giving them extra wounds and toughness boosts as this is getting into monstrous creature territory (and walkers that are incorrectly categorised as MC's!)

give them 3+ on 2d6 like it should be. AP 3 knocks this to 4+ on 2d6 ap 2 knocks to 5+ ap 1 to 6+

 Soteks Prophet wrote:
give them 3+ on 2d6 like it should be. AP 3 knocks this to 4+ on 2d6 ap 2 knocks to 5+ ap 1 to 6+

Again, that's just too complicated. See how long that takes to roll out if you take 10 wounds... no one wants to individually roll 10 pairs of dice... depending on how you do it, it could take 10 times longer. Now look at a Deathwing only army and you've just added another half hour to the game just for rolling saves

T5. They're supposed to be invincible killing machines.

 Soteks Prophet wrote:
give them 3+ on 2d6 like it should be. AP 3 knocks this to 4+ on 2d6 ap 2 knocks to 5+ ap 1 to 6+

How long is it going to take you to roll all those saves on 2d6 when someone FRF/SRFs two hundred twin-linked lasgun shots at you? (Lasguns or no lasguns that's still fifty saves)

Improve Storm Bolter to Assault 3 and give them all Feel No Pain so they would generally get 2 "Saves" vs. most Wounds. Might have to up their cost slightly at that point though.

Assault 3 is a non-upgrade, because the shots are still very weak.

Martel732 wrote:
Assault 3 is a non-upgrade, because the shots are still very weak.

Two heavy weapons per five. Better guns.

T5 and access to grav weapons.