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Dreadknights are too expensive and too fragile to be broken in any meaningful sense. They're good, but you pay for what you get and it will die very quickly if you're not careful.

Riptides are cheaper, with a similar level of firepower at range, a better invuln and an extra wound. They're underpriced, but not terribly so. If they were 4 wounds and the overcharge options were tweaked, they'd be fine.

Wraithknights are mainly just too hard to kill for a lot of armies for the points, and perfectly counter what wave serpents can't handle. They could be 300pts and still be solid.

Martel732 wrote:
Riptides are broken as hell with how hard it is to hurt them. The base chassis needs to cost more.

"Dreadknight is the best melee "

Wrong edition for me to worry about that.

Totally false, the Riptide is not "broken as hell", and according to your logic it means the Dreadknight is because they are the same exact Toughness and have the same exact save. The base chasis is perfectly costed for what you get as the Dreadknight is 50pts. cheaper for 1 less wound, yes the Riptide "potentially" can get a better Ward save but the fact it fails 1/3 of the time with no saves hurts it a lot. The only thing that needs to be changed is the Ion Accelerator points cost, boost it up to around 20pts. and call it good. Also Dreadknights unlike most units ignore the fallbacks of melee due to the fact that it can literally be almost anywhere on the board an assaulting you turn 2 on top of being able to do a ton of damage with shooting with a potential instant death Psilencer and Torrent flamer.

 gmaleron wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Riptides are broken as hell with how hard it is to hurt them. The base chassis needs to cost more.

"Dreadknight is the best melee "

Wrong edition for me to worry about that.

Totally false, the Riptide is not "broken as hell", and according to your logic it means the Dreadknight is because they are the same exact Toughness and have the same exact save. The base chasis is perfectly costed for what you get as the Dreadknight is 50pts. cheaper for 1 less wound! Also Dreadknights unlike most units ignore the fallbacks of melee due to the fact that it can literally be almost anywhere on the board an assaulting you turn 2 on top of being able to do a ton of damage with shooting, I mean instant death Psilencer?! Sorry mate going to have to come up with a more constructive argument then that.

Do you play Tyranids? Because that is quite likely the only matchup where a psilencer is going to be good, the psilencer without force being activated is S4 AP-, not impressive a slightly stronger lasgun though there IS 12 shots. In a army where S4 is standard most will pass on it so we can actually crack some tanks open with S7, or take the flamer for hordes. If the psilencer were S5 I promise you, it would be taken far more often because at that level it actually has the chance to hurt more common vehicles.

Helbrute > All

 Quickjager wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Riptides are broken as hell with how hard it is to hurt them. The base chassis needs to cost more.

"Dreadknight is the best melee "

Wrong edition for me to worry about that.

Totally false, the Riptide is not "broken as hell", and according to your logic it means the Dreadknight is because they are the same exact Toughness and have the same exact save. The base chasis is perfectly costed for what you get as the Dreadknight is 50pts. cheaper for 1 less wound! Also Dreadknights unlike most units ignore the fallbacks of melee due to the fact that it can literally be almost anywhere on the board an assaulting you turn 2 on top of being able to do a ton of damage with shooting, I mean instant death Psilencer?! Sorry mate going to have to come up with a more constructive argument then that.

Do you play Tyranids? Because that is quite likely the only matchup where a psilencer is going to be good, the psilencer without force being activated is S4 AP-, not impressive a slightly stronger lasgun though there IS 12 shots. In a army where S4 is standard most will pass on it so we can actually crack some tanks open with S7, or take the flamer for hordes. If the psilencer were S5 I promise you, it would be taken far more often because at that level it actually has the chance to hurt more common vehicles.

the only thing the psilencer is really a big threat too is a high HP, lowish to medium toughness, not too high AC MC. greater deamons and the like I suppose.

 gmaleron wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Riptides are broken as hell with how hard it is to hurt them. The base chassis needs to cost more.

"Dreadknight is the best melee "

Wrong edition for me to worry about that.

Totally false, the Riptide is not "broken as hell", and according to your logic it means the Dreadknight is because they are the same exact Toughness and have the same exact save. The base chasis is perfectly costed for what you get as the Dreadknight is 50pts. cheaper for 1 less wound, yes the Riptide "potentially" can get a better Ward save but the fact it fails 1/3 of the time with no saves hurts it a lot. The only thing that needs to be changed is the Ion Accelerator points cost, boost it up to around 20pts. and call it good. Also Dreadknights unlike most units ignore the fallbacks of melee due to the fact that it can literally be almost anywhere on the board an assaulting you turn 2 on top of being able to do a ton of damage with shooting with a potential instant death Psilencer and Torrent flamer.

The Riptide usually has T6 2+/3++ FNP for saves. That's crazy. Just crazy. Dreadknights have a 5++ . Maybe they can make it 4++ That's a lot less crazy. If you can't tell the difference between 3++/FNP and 4++, I don't know what to say. Dreadknights can't assault after shunting. That's a very, very long turn for there to stand there and fire a couple of guns I don't care about.

Martel732 wrote:
The Riptide usually has T6 2+/3++ FNP for saves. That's crazy. Just crazy. Dreadknights have a 5++ . Maybe they can make it 4++ That's a lot less crazy. If you can't tell the difference between 3++/FNP and 4++, I don't know what to say. Dreadknights can't assault after shunting. That's a very, very long turn for there to stand there and fire a couple of guns I don't care about.

You can keep bringing this up and I will keep correcting you. The 3+ is not an automatic thing, failing 1/3 of the time is not a great statistic and the FNP is an expensive upgrade that you are forgoing other things for. I can tell the difference just fine thank you very much just as I can tell your just a typical Tau hater, if its not IoM it cant be good is basically what I have gathered from you in this and other threads past and present. And maybe you don't care about the guns but good Grey Knight players utilize them to great affect with the rest of their army, and if they are putting them in a bad position when they shunt then that is just poor tactics. If I remember correctly in a thread awhile ago where you were stating the same thing it came to light that you were playing Blood Angles and were not using an optimized list. Maybe take the advice we gave you back then instead of making over the top claims on how to fix a MC that needs a few tweaks at best.

Define "expensive" on a T6 W5 model.

" Maybe take the advice we gave you back then"

What exactly is an "optimized" BA list? Even BA players can't decide what that is. I don't seem to remember any list advice, either.

And get it right. I'm not a Tau hater. I'm a Riptide hater.

66% is over half of the time, and so it is fair to say that the Riptide *usually* has 2+/3++ and FNP. Couple that with the fact that it never gets close to anything, and it's basically invincible. Even BA can't catch it. I've tried.

"but good Grey Knight players utilize them to great affect with the rest of their army,"

The math prevents them from having a "great effect". They just aren't that potent of weaponry. At least, not compared to Riptide or Wraithknight.

", if its not IoM it cant be good"

No, I hate gravstars and the SW, too.

Martel732 wrote:


66% is over half of the time, and so it is fair to say that the Riptide *usually* has 2+/3++ and FNP. Couple that with the fact that it never gets close to anything, and it's basically invincible. Even BA can't catch it. I've tried.

And the other 33% of the time it gets an automatic wound (which he can FnP if he bought the upgrade instead of something more useful).

Over a 6 round game, a Riptide that uses Nova every round is left with qn effective 3 wounds, or 3.66 if he has FnP.

But FNP can negate that wound though. Regardless whether you took it, if you plan to rely on the Nova Shield, the FNP is a good choice. Besides, what would you be taking instead?

"with qn effective 3 wounds, or 3.66 if he has FnP."

Small consolation when all my units are dead. Complaints about Riptides wounding themselves is like an Ork player from 2nd ed complaining that he actually has to expend his pulsa rokkits in order to autowin against 3/4 of the lists in that edition. Ritpides are quite that bad, but that's what they remind me of.

Martel732 wrote:
"with qn effective 3 wounds, or 3.66 if he has FnP."

Small consolation when all my units are dead. Complaints about Riptides wounding themselves is like an Ork player from 2nd ed complaining that he actually has to expend his pulsa rokkits in order to autowin against 3/4 of the lists in that edition. Ritpides are quite that bad, but that's what they remind me of.

Has it ever occured to you that maybe, just maybe the BA codex, or at least your list, is sub par and bringing the Riptide down to its level will also make it sub par?

 gmaleron wrote:
If I remember correctly in a thread awhile ago where you were stating the same thing it came to light that you were playing Blood Angles and were not using an optimized list. Maybe take the advice we gave you back then instead of making over the top claims on how to fix a MC that needs a few tweaks at best.

That's not all, either. You know why he hates armies like Tau with a passion? Because his local meta plays mostly shooting armies like Tau and refuses to play with meaningful terrain on the board. So he's basically being forced to play on Planet Bowling Ball against one of the deadliest shooting armies in the game and has literally nowhere to hide and no cover to take advantage of.

He's apparently given up trying to get the other players to listen to reason, either that or can't really form a convincing argument for why there needs to be more terrain on the table, and has instead decided to spend his time and energy loudly complaining about how inherently broken Tau are online in the hopes that GW happens to notice (or care) and nerfs Tau into the ground, making them unplayable for literally everyone else in the world with a Tau army but making it so that he has a chance on a table with no cover and nothing blocking LOS.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
If I remember correctly in a thread awhile ago where you were stating the same thing it came to light that you were playing Blood Angles and were not using an optimized list. Maybe take the advice we gave you back then instead of making over the top claims on how to fix a MC that needs a few tweaks at best.

That's not all, either. You know why he hates armies like Tau with a passion? Because his local meta plays mostly shooting armies like Tau and refuses to play with meaningful terrain on the board. So he's basically being forced to play on Planet Bowling Ball against one of the deadliest shooting armies in the game and has literally nowhere to hide and no cover to take advantage of.

He's apparently given up trying to get the other players to listen to reason, either that or can't really form a convincing argument for why there needs to be more terrain on the table, and has instead decided to spend his time and energy loudly complaining about how inherently broken Tau are online in the hopes that GW happens to notice (or care) and nerfs Tau into the ground, making them unplayable for literally everyone else in the world with a Tau army but making it so that he has a chance on a table with no cover and nothing blocking LOS.

Other players in this, and other threads, have posted reasons why the Riptide is the strongest out of the three.

Heck, in this thread, it seems that most posters lean towards the riptide being the strongest as well.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
But FNP can negate that wound though. Regardless whether you took it, if you plan to rely on the Nova Shield, the FNP is a good choice. Besides, what would you be taking instead?

FnP will negate each wound 1/3 of the time, meaning on average you take 1.33 wounds instead of 2.

I run 2 Riptides in my list in a quite competitive meta. At furst I used an IA one with EWO and FnP and a HBC one with VT and FnP. It didn't work badly at all, but among the first pieces of advice everyone gave mevwas 'lose the HBC and the FnP, field 2 IAs with EWO and VT'.

The motivation behind this was:
- Nobody will shoot your Riptides first. Killing the markeright support and the Crisis/ Broadsides requires less resources than killing 2-3 Riptides and still removes a large chunk of firepower. By the tome it's down to the Riptides, only rarely will the game be close enough for FnP to make a difference.
-IA Riptides don't really need to use Nova Charge, as it gives them little extra.(+1 S and Ordnance is hardly worth it).

This thread topic again.... *Groan*

So lets start here.

The Riptide gets the most hate in every thread... therefore to at least an extent it is the most broken.
Logic being: if everyone is saying the same things consistently its probably got some truth to it.

That being said: I think it comes in for the most flack because it was the first 'big model' of the line in the first power codex of the edition for an army following 2 lacklustre releases.

I think the Riptide is considered the best for a few reasons:
72" range - means it doesn't need to put itself into harms range
AP2 - scares everyone coupled with
S7-8 - potential instant death
Large blast - negates BS a bit (people seem to forget/ignore gets hot is another chance to miss)
2+ save - makes most weapons that can effectively hurt it limited at range
5++ save - makes it more immune to ranged weapons that can
T6 - makes it harder for small arms fire to hurt it
2 weapons - although not a massive issue mostly
immune to blind and night based cover saves
Can get a 3++ or other (lets be honest mostly it's 3++)
Can shoot at deep strikers with a blast when they are clustered.
Can 'run away' in assult phase

It's easy to see why people dislike it.

That being said of the options it isn't the most powerful or useful in a lot of ways

The WK is the winner for me.

Also to the poster who said its an auto-include to have a riptide: i have 1 thing to say about that, "No duh"
Of course it is an auto include, it's the only unit in the army with T above 4 and one of only 2 units with a 2+ save making it effectively the only unit we can rely on to survive.

Tau dont have the luxuries of survivability in masses.

 Sidstyler wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
If I remember correctly in a thread awhile ago where you were stating the same thing it came to light that you were playing Blood Angles and were not using an optimized list. Maybe take the advice we gave you back then instead of making over the top claims on how to fix a MC that needs a few tweaks at best.

That's not all, either. You know why he hates armies like Tau with a passion? Because his local meta plays mostly shooting armies like Tau and refuses to play with meaningful terrain on the board. So he's basically being forced to play on Planet Bowling Ball against one of the deadliest shooting armies in the game and has literally nowhere to hide and no cover to take advantage of.

He's apparently given up trying to get the other players to listen to reason, either that or can't really form a convincing argument for why there needs to be more terrain on the table, and has instead decided to spend his time and energy loudly complaining about how inherently broken Tau are online in the hopes that GW happens to notice (or care) and nerfs Tau into the ground, making them unplayable for literally everyone else in the world with a Tau army but making it so that he has a chance on a table with no cover and nothing blocking LOS.

LOS blocking terrain might make the Riptides even harder to kill though, if they exploit it correctly. It would make the non-jet pack stuff less potent, though. The other players know what LOS blocking terrain does. They just collectively don't want it. I can't make a convincing argument when they already understand the issue at hand. And I have tons and tons of cover. Too bad the Tau ignore it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LordBlades wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"with qn effective 3 wounds, or 3.66 if he has FnP."

Small consolation when all my units are dead. Complaints about Riptides wounding themselves is like an Ork player from 2nd ed complaining that he actually has to expend his pulsa rokkits in order to autowin against 3/4 of the lists in that edition. Ritpides are quite that bad, but that's what they remind me of.

Has it ever occured to you that maybe, just maybe the BA codex, or at least your list, is sub par and bringing the Riptide down to its level will also make it sub par?

Yes, except that I'm not the only one saying this.

Just need point tweaks.
Dreadknights are costed correctly - fully kitted.
Riptides cost to little fully kitted.
Wraithknights come stock ready to murder everything scary in the game - maybe need to cost a little more.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Just need point tweaks.
Dreadknights are costed correctly - fully kitted.
Riptides cost to little fully kitted.
Wraithknights come stock ready to murder everything scary in the game - maybe need to cost a little more.

LIES!

All are too cheap.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Just need point tweaks.
Dreadknights are costed correctly - fully kitted.
Riptides cost to little fully kitted.
Wraithknights come stock ready to murder everything scary in the game - maybe need to cost a little more.

True, but the 3+ save is kinda weak.

Martel732 wrote:

Yes, except that I'm not the only one saying this.

Except you're one of the few who stubbornly refuses to acknowledge that the issues with IA Riptides are mostly issues with the IA, and not with the Riptide chassis.

Even if you nerfed the chassis to T1, 1W no armor save, as lomg as the IA profile remains the same it's still going to be killing marines on foot on open boards with impunity.

LordBlades wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

Yes, except that I'm not the only one saying this.

Except you're one of the few who stubbornly refuses to acknowledge that the issues with IA Riptides are mostly issues with the IA, and not with the Riptide chassis.

Even if you nerfed the chassis to T1, 1W no armor save, as lomg as the IA profile remains the same it's still going to be killing marines on foot on open boards with impunity.

Mostly, but not completely. The base chasis is not fine, to me. Too mobile, too many wounds, with base access to 3++. Maybe if the option to NOVA charge cost extra I'd be fine with it. As it stands, I don't know what fair price for an immortal IA is. Because it is effectively immortal because of the ability to concentrate enough fire to destroy a Riptide with a normal list.

I had a tau army, and the riptide is a power piece. Broken? No, but very point efficient. It'll dance around taking objectives and dishing out large blast.

I also use GKs, and I like the dreadknight. Its a fun model that gets in the opponents face. But it will go down easy to weight of fire. Which happens once your up close. Well balanced, being its gonna be close to 200 pts kitted out.

Never played wraightknights, but they look sweet, and can put out damage, They definitely will fall to low ap weapons though.

So my vote goes to riptide as all around beast.

Martel732 wrote:

LordBlades wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

Yes, except that I'm not the only one saying this.

Except you're one of the few who stubbornly refuses to acknowledge that the issues with IA Riptides are mostly issues with the IA, and not with the Riptide chassis.

Even if you nerfed the chassis to T1, 1W no armor save, as lomg as the IA profile remains the same it's still going to be killing marines on foot on open boards with impunity.

Mostly, but not completely. The base chasis is not fine, to me. Too mobile, too many wounds, with base access to 3++. Maybe if the option to NOVA charge cost extra I'd be fine with it. As it stands, I don't know what fair price for an immortal IA is. Because it is effectively immortal because of the ability to concentrate enough fire to destroy a Riptide with a normal list.

Just to establish a baseline, what exactly do you understand by 'normal list'?

Good question. There's a schism in normal, I suppose.

There's list with these things:

Gravstars
One *million* scatterlasers
Smashfether
Wraiths, now
2++ rerollable
Other ways of getting large amounts of high STR shooting

Then there's lists without those things. You really can't engage Riptides with these things:

Only a few scatterlasers
Lascannons, in the quantity you find in a TAC list
Autocannons, in the quantity you find in a TAC list
Short range AP 2 weapons
Assault elements

I think GW just underestimates how annoying MCs are in general to deal with, especially with those they gave 2+ saves.

Akiasura wrote:

Other players in this, and other threads, have posted reasons why the Riptide is the strongest out of the three.

Heck, in this thread, it seems that most posters lean towards the riptide being the strongest as well.

Except it isn't just about the riptide. It never is. Nerfing the riptide won't change a damn thing, people will still argue Tau as a whole are inherently overpowered and be looking for more and more things to nerf.

The riptide is just the one thing in the book that people hate the most, so it's the one that gets talked about most often. If it weren't in the book then people would be complaining just as hard about crisis suits and JSJ, markerlights, S5 pulse rifles, etc.

Martel732 wrote:
And I have tons and tons of cover. Too bad the Tau ignore it.

Which is a problem with 6th/7th more than Tau, Ignores Cover is way too prevalent. That said, as long as it's in the game then Tau should have access to it, being one of the few dedicated shooting armies. Markerlights being able to grant it with the ease that they do is something that should probably be fixed. Even if they did that though people would still complain that we have it at all, because apparently Tau shooting isn't supposed to actually do anything except give the Tau player an excuse to roll pointless dice before the entire enemy army crosses the table and wipes their army out in a melee orgy they can't do anything about.

As for your comments about LOS, personally I don't think the riptide should be able to JSJ anyway. It's way too big for that, makes much more sense on the smaller, "nimbler" suits but not that one. Like I've said before, I won't argue that the riptide doesn't need some "adjusting" but it's just one of many things that people bitch about in regards to Tau. People have always bitched about them, even with crap for rules, and I would bet money that fixing the riptide wouldn't change a damn thing, either. Everyone else would just find something else to complain about and there would be thread after thread about that until it was nerfed/removed, then we'd just continue going down the list of "Things Tau Have That Marines Don't" until there's nothing left, or until there's no Tau left, whichever comes first.

As for the thread itself, the riptide is most likely the worst of the three, but really they all need to be adjusted in some way. Personally I wouldn't mind just seeing the dreadknight removed from the game, it's a stupid concept with a stupid-looking model, like someone saw the third Matrix movie looong after it came out and thought that idea was just too cool not to have in 40k, and then introduced it in the army where it possibly makes the least sense. Come to think of it they all have ugly models, really. Never mind, I say just get rid of them all and give wraithlords and dreadnoughts or whatever a buff instead, problem solved.

"The riptide is just the one thing in the book that people hate the most, so it's the one that gets talked about most often. If it weren't in the book then people would be complaining just as hard about crisis suits and JSJ, markerlights, S5 pulse rifles, etc"

Those other things don't bother me at all. In fact, the S5 pulse rifle is a great hedge against other units I consider over powered.

In fact, I'd like to see many Tau units buffed to where it's actually a real decision on what to bring. Stealth suits should be much better for example. Stealth suits, for example, should have a rule that lets them resist ignore cover.

I'm not opposed to strong options for any list. I oppose auto-takes in any list.

Martel732 wrote:
Good question. There's a schism in normal, I suppose.

There's list with these things:

Gravstars
One *million* scatterlasers
Smashfether
Wraiths, now
2++ rerollable
Other ways of getting large amounts of high STR shooting

Then there's lists without those things. You really can't engage Riptides with these things:

Only a few scatterlasers
Lascannons, in the quantity you find in a TAC list
Autocannons, in the quantity you find in a TAC list
Short range AP 2 weapons
Assault elements

I think GW just underestimates how annoying MCs are in general to deal with, especially with those they gave 2+ saves.

If a TAC list can't effectively take on MCs then it's not really a take ALL comers list, is it?

Maybe it's time to accept that the old TAC lists no longer work and adapt your list to the reality of the game rather than expect the game to adapt to your list? Not taking about Riptides specifically, but tough MCs are here to stay for the foreseeable future.

I can kill Wraithknights and Dreadknights just fine. The effective range/save/wound math works out. The Riptide is an outlier in terms of soaking firepower at its effective range.

So here's the MCs I CAN take on with any of my lists:

Dreadknight
Wraithknight
Wraithlord
Carnifex
Ground Tyrant
The DE thingie
Ground demon princes
Ground greater demons

Throw in dual Stormraven and I can add:

Any flying MC, except penta-Flyrant, which needs triple Stormraven


There is only one thing missing from the list because of its specific mode of operation and stat combination: Riptide.

 Sidstyler wrote:

Akiasura wrote:

Other players in this, and other threads, have posted reasons why the Riptide is the strongest out of the three.

Heck, in this thread, it seems that most posters lean towards the riptide being the strongest as well.

Except it isn't just about the riptide. It never is. Nerfing the riptide won't change a damn thing, people will still argue Tau as a whole are inherently overpowered and be looking for more and more things to nerf.

The riptide is just the one thing in the book that people hate the most, so it's the one that gets talked about most often. If it weren't in the book then people would be complaining just as hard about crisis suits and JSJ, markerlights, S5 pulse rifles, etc.

The only thing I ever see people having an issue with in regards to Tau are;
Riptides
Markerlights ignoring cover after just one light (-2 per light seems fair).

Occasionally I see people upset about the fact that markerlights work on snap shots. It makes overwatch really strong, and it makes Tau the second strongest army in the game when it comes to anti-air. Tau have always had good crisis suits, and Str 5 main weapons, and people have rarely complained about them in mass.

I own a Tau army, though not a riptide. It's way too strong. Markerlights allowing ignore cover on any weapon is also too strong. Most armies are very limited on what guns have it (outside of grav weapons...should have never been allowed on certain platforms), but Tau have it on every single weapon they want.

 Sidstyler wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
And I have tons and tons of cover. Too bad the Tau ignore it.

Which is a problem with 6th/7th more than Tau, Ignores Cover is way too prevalent. That said, as long as it's in the game then Tau should have access to it, being one of the few dedicated shooting armies. Markerlights being able to grant it with the ease that they do is something that should probably be fixed. Even if they did that though people would still complain that we have it at all, because apparently Tau shooting isn't supposed to actually do anything except give the Tau player an excuse to roll pointless dice before the entire enemy army crosses the table and wipes their army out in a melee orgy they can't do anything about.

Nobody is saying that Tau should sit there and get assaulted. Even with those things removed, Tau would still be a strong dex, just not up there with the best. The reason that Tau get a lot of hate is they are supposed to be a mobile short range firepower list with mini gundams providing heavy weapons and alien allies providing melee support.
They are instead a gunline army that, with the exception of a few units, just sit there and target units. This is chiefly due to the way markerlights and riptides work. It's very annoying to see a player just sit there, point at a unit, delete it, and move on to the next. People never enjoy a campy playstyle, in any game (look at SSB campy players if you want to see true hatred, or old school Street fighter Guile playstyle).

 Sidstyler wrote:

As for your comments about LOS, personally I don't think the riptide should be able to JSJ anyway. It's way too big for that, makes much more sense on the smaller, "nimbler" suits but not that one. Like I've said before, I won't argue that the riptide doesn't need some "adjusting" but it's just one of many things that people bitch about in regards to Tau. People have always bitched about them, even with crap for rules, and I would bet money that fixing the riptide wouldn't change a damn thing, either. Everyone else would just find something else to complain about and there would be thread after thread about that until it was nerfed/removed, then we'd just continue going down the list of "Things Tau Have That Marines Don't" until there's nothing left, or until there's no Tau left, whichever comes first.

Outside of rules, the only thing I think people complain about is the look and fluff for Tau. Personally, I like the look a lot, and think they are the darkest faction out there, so I love them fluff wise.
That side, their playstyle nowadays is boring to watch and play against. It's a valid complaint.

 Sidstyler wrote:

As for the thread itself, the riptide is most likely the worst of the three, but really they all need to be adjusted in some way. Personally I wouldn't mind just seeing the dreadknight removed from the game, it's a stupid concept with a stupid-looking model, like someone saw the third Matrix movie looong after it came out and thought that idea was just too cool not to have in 40k, and then introduced it in the army where it possibly makes the least sense. Come to think of it they all have ugly models, really. Never mind, I say just get rid of them all and give wraithlords and dreadnoughts or whatever a buff instead, problem solved.

I agree with this. Dreadnoughts have been lame forever, let's buff them and lords, along with brutes, and remove the new MC walkers.