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Martel732 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
Just pointing out that SM ignore the most rules, not Tau.

It depends on how you look at it. ATSKNF has become far less important than it was in 3rd ed because of the high casualty rates.

There are quite a few other rules Space Marines ignore. For example, afaik only SM can:

-Deep Strike in turn 1
-Assault from non open-topped vehicles (including flyers)

Martel732 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
Just pointing out that SM ignore the most rules, not Tau.

It depends on how you look at it. ATSKNF has become far less important than it was in 3rd ed because of the high casualty rates.

Just because it isn't important it doesn't change the fact that the most popular army ignores the most rules, yet people complain about Tau ignoring rules...

I suppose what he meant is that not all rules are equal. And he is right. Guess which one I would choose, ignore cover or ATSKNF?

For me, of the three I dislike playing against wraithknights the most.

T8 and 6 wounds is just so many to go through.

If the question is which is the most powerful though, then it really comes down to what army they are going against.

Riptides are the bane of long range shooty armies as they opperate to their full effectiveness at range, and JSJ keeps them out of most harms way.
I wouldn't want to play with Tau or IG when facing riptides. When I use my Daemons on the otherhand they are relatively easy to deal with.

Against more melee focussed armies the wraithknight becomes more of a problem, as it excels up close and is so durable.
Using my previous example, a wraithknight would have to play more cautiously vs a tau gunline, whereas against daemons its str 10 and T8 make it a real challenge to deal with.

SGTPozy wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
Just pointing out that SM ignore the most rules, not Tau.

It depends on how you look at it. ATSKNF has become far less important than it was in 3rd ed because of the high casualty rates.

Just because it isn't important it doesn't change the fact that the most popular army ignores the most rules, yet people complain about Tau ignoring rules...

I don't particularly care about that. I think it's more fair to say Tau ignore phases of the game more than rules. Even what movement they do is just to further more shooting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LordBlades wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:
Just pointing out that SM ignore the most rules, not Tau.

It depends on how you look at it. ATSKNF has become far less important than it was in 3rd ed because of the high casualty rates.

There are quite a few other rules Space Marines ignore. For example, afaik only SM can:

-Deep Strike in turn 1
-Assault from non open-topped vehicles (including flyers)

Assault vehicles don't ignore rules. They have a rule called "assault". For which they pay exorbitant points.

Martel732 wrote:


Assault vehicles don't ignore rules. They have a rule called "assault". For which they pay exorbitant points.

Then markerlights don't ignore rules either. They have a rule called 'ignore cover' for which you on average have to pay at least 44 pointsof very fragile models.

Martel732 wrote:


I don't particularly care about that. I think it's more fair to say Tau ignore phases of the game more than rules. Even what movement they do is just to further more shooting.

Just because YOU do not care, others do. ATSKNF is very useful but marine players are just used to getting loads of love because they're space marines.

What phases?
Movement? No, they move into better positions, to move backwards and to grab objectives.
Psychic? Yes, but so do Necrons, SoB and DE.
Shooting? Of course not.
Assault? No, we do our thrust moves there.

So how does Tau "ignore phases" when they ignore a single phase; singular, not plural.

Finally, "Even what movement they do is just to further more shooting," what? What's wrong with that? Do we complain that a CC army moves towards us to assault us? That point is extremely idiotic.

LordBlades wrote:

Martel732 wrote:


Assault vehicles don't ignore rules. They have a rule called "assault". For which they pay exorbitant points.

Then markerlights don't ignore rules either. They have a rule called 'ignore cover' for which you on average have to pay at least 44 pointsof very fragile models.

I'm not talking about Tau ignoring rules. How did that even come up?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SGTPozy wrote:

Martel732 wrote:


I don't particularly care about that. I think it's more fair to say Tau ignore phases of the game more than rules. Even what movement they do is just to further more shooting.

Just because YOU do not care, others do. ATSKNF is very useful but marine players are just used to getting loads of love because they're space marines.

What phases?
Movement? No, they move into better positions, to move backwards and to grab objectives.
Psychic? Yes, but so do Necrons, SoB and DE.
Shooting? Of course not.
Assault? No, we do our thrust moves there.

So how does Tau "ignore phases" when they ignore a single phase; singular, not plural.

Finally, "Even what movement they do is just to further more shooting," what? What's wrong with that? Do we complain that a CC army moves towards us to assault us? That point is extremely idiotic.

I don't know how we got onto this topic, but it's useful. I'm talking about a singular unit in the Tau codex. I was mostly repeating the complaints others have put forth. I don't really think about what rules or phases get ignored. I mostly care about how fast my army gets picked and put back in the box.

ATSKNF isn't really useful that much anymore because they game is about killing models, not making them run away.

" just used to getting loads of love because they're space marines."

Go check out 2nd ed and tell me how much love was there.

Were not in 2nd Edition anymore so your comment is invalid. The bottom line is Space Marine and Imperial armies as a whole get a lot more love and can do just as nasty and even nastier stuff then the Tau ever could. The point they are making is that many of your statements are completely hypocritical in regards to the Riptide as Imperial armies have plenty to deal with it and have even nastier units available. The Riptide does not ignore "Phases" of the game as you so claim, it has special rules like Space Marines due that give the army a flavor and allow it to function the way it does. Complain all you want about the Riptide, outside a point tweak to the Ion Accelerator its perfectly fine and instead of complaining so much about it try and find ways to deal with it instead of blaming the Tau/Riptide for all your woes.

It's not completely invalid because it happened. Loyalist marines were completely unplayable. So don't act like they've always gotten the best stuff.

The base Riptide is still too durable and mobile for its point cost, independent of the ion accelerator. It is NOT perfectly fine. It is the only MC that requires extremely specialized weaponry to even engage.

I notice that most everyone ignored my post about the failings of drop lists. I've been playing with and against drop pods since the day they were released. If that's the kind of "love" you are talking about, I find it a bit lackluster.

Martel732 wrote:
It's not completely invalid because it happened. Loyalist marines were completely unplayable. So don't act like they've always gotten the best stuff.

The base Riptide is still too durable and mobile for its point cost, independent of the ion accelerator. It is NOT perfectly fine. It is the only MC that requires extremely specialized weaponry to even engage.

I notice that most everyone ignored my post about the failings of drop lists. I've been playing with and against drop pods since the day they were released. If that's the kind of "love" you are talking about, I find it a bit lackluster.

Or you are utilizing Drop Pods poorly which isn't out of the question, and it is invalid because it was so long ago, this is 7th not 2nd. And it IS perfectly fine, the Riptide does not need "special weaponry" as you so claim to deal with it. The same weapons that work on Riptides work on Dreadknights and Wraithknights, they are not immune to those weapons. If the Riptide is "to durable" then I expect the Dreadknight to go up in points as well since it has the same exact toughness and saves according to your logic.

Here's a pretty easy way to think of it. Codex Grey Knights was recently replaced. Codex Eldar and Codex Tau will soon be replaced because they're still 6th.

Dreadknight, Wraithknight, Riptide: which do you think will get nerfs? ^^

If I were a betting man, I would not go out and buy 6 Riptide models to field. Tau will get other buffs, and maybe even come out stronger for the codex, but just like Necron, things that are just too good or that are must-takes will get hit with the nerf bat. I don't think GW will go too far, as Riptides are nice models, but I don't think they'll be what they are today, too, and something else will emerge as the new Tau meta.

Besides, how else would GW sell Tau players more models? How many people went out and bought multiple boxes of crappy finecast Flayed One models, when the models themselves are outdated and overpriced?

Riptide? Are you talking about Ankalomosos, the pen-sword Percy Jackson had in the Percy Jackson series?

 gmaleron wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It's not completely invalid because it happened. Loyalist marines were completely unplayable. So don't act like they've always gotten the best stuff.

The base Riptide is still too durable and mobile for its point cost, independent of the ion accelerator. It is NOT perfectly fine. It is the only MC that requires extremely specialized weaponry to even engage.

I notice that most everyone ignored my post about the failings of drop lists. I've been playing with and against drop pods since the day they were released. If that's the kind of "love" you are talking about, I find it a bit lackluster.

Or you are utilizing Drop Pods poorly which isn't out of the question, and it is invalid because it was so long ago, this is 7th not 2nd. And it IS perfectly fine, the Riptide does not need "special weaponry" as you so claim to deal with it. The same weapons that work on Riptides work on Dreadknights and Wraithknights, they are not immune to those weapons. If the Riptide is "to durable" then I expect the Dreadknight to go up in points as well since it has the same exact toughness and saves according to your logic.

Actually, the Riptide DOES require special weaponry, because it never gets within range of 80% of Imperial weapons.

It's not me utilizing them incorrectly. It's watching them be foiled and foiling them myself. Drop pods are a tool for sure, but their backfire rate is quite high, making them a major gamble.

Just because something happened in the 90s, doesn't make it not count. 2nd ed happened, and loyalist marines were AWFUL. More awful than any bottom feeder list has been since then.

Martel732 wrote:
Actually, the Riptide DOES require special weaponry, because it never gets within range of 80% of Imperial weapons.

It's not me utilizing them incorrectly. It's watching them be foiled and foiling them myself. Drop pods are a tool for sure, but their backfire rate is quite high, making them a major gamble.

Just because something happened in the 90s, doesn't make it not count. 2nd ed happened, and loyalist marines were AWFUL. More awful than any bottom feeder list has been since then.

-Major exaggeration with that percentage you must be playing on insanely wide tables and are not utilizing proper units and tactics to close said distance. There is PLENTY in the Imperial arsenal that can handle the Riptides quite easily, trust me I play Imperial Guard as well as Tau and NEVER have issue bringing down Riptides and other MC's.

-Drop Pods when utilized properly, much like Dreadknights they can have a massive impact on the game and yes they are a major gamble. That does not ignore the fact that they are one of the best ways to deal with Tau and Riptides in general, all that it takes is you deploying them so they are so close to other Tau units that its a gamble to shoot at them.

-I think Orks in this edition would have to disagree with you. And your ignoring the fact since then that in every edition they have gotten the best of everything in all other editions, 5th edition Grey Knights ring a bell?

"I think Orks in this edition would have to disagree with you."

Let's not get into this. Evidently you never played 2nd or you would know better. 2nd was very, very different and so it's hard to understand how badly you could get overwhelmed in that edition by Eldar or Tyranids or CSM. As in, the loyalist marines don't get a turn overwhelmed. I don't think Orks are getting tabled in one turn in 6th.

As for drop pods, it's a pure positioning game. I've seen Tau do this to SW players at least a dozen times. Utilize the board edges and your non-Riptide troops to make it so they can't get plasma double taps on the Riptides when they drop. Make sure they are killing less important units. Do not utilize interceptor, because you have already made it so the SW can't hurt you very much through positioning.

Then, on the Tau turn, move your units away from the SW so your templates can land with no risk to your own units. Done. The SW will lose around double to triple the points they just took away from the Tau, effectively ending the game on Tau turn 1, as the SW can not climb out of that hole. Nor can their foot sloggers ever catch Riptides or even crisis suits to assault them. It becomes a turkey shoot.

In a sense, there is no "utilize drop pods properly". Your opponent completely dictates to a drop list how the game is going to go. You are at the mercy of his initial set up. If your initial strike fails to inflict enough damage, your units are all foot slogging target practice.

Given the saves on Riptides, there is literally nothing that handles them "easily", not even AM, unless you list tailor. Are you list tailoring? If not, most AM lists have plenty of autocannons and plasma guns which are functionally useless against Riptides, because of the saves against autocannons and the plasma gun s can't get close enough.

" not utilizing proper units and tactics to close said distance"

Riptides move insanely fast. What do you propose to use close said distance? Not even BA can keep up.

You keep bringing up the Dreadknight like it is somehow comparable to the Riptide. While the stat line is similar, the actual usage on the battlefield makes the Dreadknight anywhere from 1.5 X to I'd say even 4 X less durable depending on the opponent. The Dreadknight effectively must move within range of every AP 2 weapon in the game to do its business. Compare to the Riptide, which, on the typical table, only needs to get within range of lascannon, bright lances, heavy wraith cannons and the like. The list of AP 2 weapons that can reach a Ritpide is very short. Hence, my specialized weaponry comment. You can't drop short range AP 2 weapons next to them, because good Tau players won't let you. So the Dreadknight has to face the full wrath of a list, whereas the Riptide only ever faces a fraction.

So moving 6 inches with a random distance jump move is insanely fast compared to Fast Vehicles, Drop Pods ect? Fail to see the accuracy of that claim.

No I didn't play 2nd edition, however Orks though maybe not tabled turn one have an impossible uphill climb and fight against almost every army in the game, the claim is not without validity.

Have you ever seen Centurions in Drop Pods? Positioning is moot when you have weapons that can reach out and touch you without worry. There are also ways for Drop Pod lists to counter and take advantage of your opponents deployment, letting your opponent deploy and go first not only wastes an entire turn of shooting for them but allows you to counter their deployment to the best of your ability, trust me I have seen this work we can keep going tit for tat over this.

And no im not list tailoring because even the mighty Riptide struggles with walls of 14 armor and weight of fire ill bring down anything, which the Imperial Guard can bring a lot of it to bear. And please tell me how a plasma gun is useless against a Riptide? Some of the comments you make really confuse me. There is plenty of weaponry in the Imperial arsenal and tactics that can be used to take on the Tau and Riptides. Maybe stop complaining about it and look at tactica treads dedicated to the subject? And again you must be playing on the largest boards in existence to never be in range of any of the Tau units.

AV 14 armor is admittedly an issue for the Riptide. However, the weaponry on those AV 14 platforms will be no more successful at damaging the Riptides, they just won't be shot off the table instantly. A stalemate of shorts.

" And please tell me how a plasma gun is useless against a Riptide?"

Plasma guns are worthless against the Riptide because the Tau player wont' let you close to double tap range. The schmoe humping the gun can't catch the Riptide.

"Have you ever seen Centurions in Drop Pods?"

Yes, but that's a function of the Centurions, not the drop pods. Tiggy portal of infinity works just as well. Grav cents are right up there with Riptides, potentially worse with Tiggy tacked on. No arguments here. Put some tac marines in a drop pod and then see how OP the drop pod is then.

" trust me I have seen this work "

If the drop pod list has no target on turn 1 for you to shoot, you just won, because that means they have piecemealed their *entire* list for you and you can shoot them apart as they enter the board. They just divided and conquered themselves FOR you. Being close to your opponent, but unable to assault is very, very hazardous.

"So moving 6 inches with a random distance jump move is insanely fast compared to Fast Vehicles, Drop Pods ect? Fail to see the accuracy of that claim. "

It's a jump move on top of the regular move. The Riptide will just step on the two straggling assault marines or whatever that manage to finally catch the thing. When I say "can't catch", I mean "can't catch before the Tau list has shot me off the table"

"weight of fire ill bring down anything, which the Imperial Guard can bring a lot of it to bear."

I don't think even the guard can bring enough autocannons to meaningfully threaten T6 2+ FNP W5 models. You are only clearing 11.1% of wounds against Riptides with autocannons, and then that's after 66% chance to wound, so that's 7.4%, but after to-hit, that's only 3.7%. 25 AM autocannon shots have around a 60% chance to cause a SINGLE wound to a Riptide. You are facing 15-20 Wounds worth of these things usually.

Talys wrote:
Here's a pretty easy way to think of it. Codex Grey Knights was recently replaced. Codex Eldar and Codex Tau will soon be replaced because they're still 6th.

Dreadknight, Wraithknight, Riptide: which do you think will get nerfs? ^^

If I were a betting man, I would not go out and buy 6 Riptide models to field. Tau will get other buffs, and maybe even come out stronger for the codex, but just like Necron, things that are just too good or that are must-takes will get hit with the nerf bat. I don't think GW will go too far, as Riptides are nice models, but I don't think they'll be what they are today, too, and something else will emerge as the new Tau meta.

Besides, how else would GW sell Tau players more models? How many people went out and bought multiple boxes of crappy finecast Flayed One models, when the models themselves are outdated and overpriced?

Here is another simple way to look at it:

-Dreadknight just got updated. This means GW considers it's current stats 'fine'. Given this benchmark, Riptide is also largely fine, asit shares most stats.

- Riptide is the most expensive Tau kit. It's equally likely GW will come up with some kind of wacky formation that allows you to field more than 3 Riptides per squad.

"Riptide is also largely fine, asit shares most stats. "

Except for how the Riptide is used compared to the Dreadknight. The Dreadknight goes down so much faster.

Martel732 wrote:
"Riptide is also largely fine, asit shares most stats. "

Except for how the Riptide is used compared to the Dreadknight. The Dreadknight goes down so much faster.

In your experience.

In mine most lists I play against (on 6x4 ft. tables with terrain) don't have that many issues getting in range.

Can you please stop presenting your anecdotal evidence (which multiple posters have argued is skewed due to the lists and conditions you play.in) as hard facts?

You're also giving GW too much credit if you think any balancing process they might have goes so far as to consider how a unit is used.

Martel732 wrote:
"Riptide is also largely fine, asit shares most stats. "

Except for how the Riptide is used compared to the Dreadknight. The Dreadknight goes down so much faster.

As I stated previously, it really depends on the opposition.
Against shooty armies with lots of ap2 weapons, yes, against fast close combat armies no.

This aside, riptides are so much better to face than they used to be.
Now that tau players can no longer have 2 riptides joined to a buffmander giving them re-roll misses, ignores cover and tank/monster hunter they are much more manageable than before.

Martel, give up you are losing your argument.

LordBlades wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"Riptide is also largely fine, asit shares most stats. "

Except for how the Riptide is used compared to the Dreadknight. The Dreadknight goes down so much faster.

In your experience.

In mine most lists I play against (on 6x4 ft. tables with terrain) don't have that many issues getting in range.

Can you please stop presenting your anecdotal evidence (which multiple posters have argued is skewed due to the lists and conditions you play.in) as hard facts?

You're also giving GW too much credit if you think any balancing process they might have goes so far as to consider how a unit is used.

Is a Dreadknight or Riptide more likely to move closer to your list on its turn? The effective range of the Dreadknight vs the Ritpide is not anecdotal. It's mathematical. I'm also on 6X4 tables with terrain. This actually helps the Riptide, though, because I have to move through said terrain to get to the thing. Tau players frequently ravage one side of a list and pull the Riptides to that side and force the remaining forces to cross the table diagonal to get to them. Are your Tau players forgetting to move their Riptides?

I'm not claiming GW though of that. I'm just saying that while the stat line for the Dreadknight may be fine, it is NOT fine for the Riptide.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SGTPozy wrote:
Martel, give up you are losing your argument.

No? And if I'm losing, then why has no one effectively addressed my points about the dreaded drop pod? Also, some people have actually agreed with me. Given the three choices in this thread, I don't think it's even really a contest. Now, if you want to talk about the most broken things in the game over all, the Riptide is lower than it used to be for sure. But amongst these *three* choices, I don't think it's even a contest. I'm entitled to this opinion. Now if the thread was Wave Serpent, Flyrant, and Riptide, that would be different.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"Riptide is also largely fine, asit shares most stats. "

Except for how the Riptide is used compared to the Dreadknight. The Dreadknight goes down so much faster.

As I stated previously, it really depends on the opposition.
Against shooty armies with lots of ap2 weapons, yes, against fast close combat armies no.

This aside, riptides are so much better to face than they used to be.
Now that tau players can no longer have 2 riptides joined to a buffmander giving them re-roll misses, ignores cover and tank/monster hunter they are much more manageable than before.

I will agree that their firepower has been reduced somewhat because of this change.

I have given you a few points when it comes to Drop Pods but you still continue to ignore them, let me reiterate it clearly so you get it:

-Drop Pods are nasty against Tau because they can get special weapons into their most effective ranges.

-You almost always will be going first allowing you to get First Blood.

-You can negate the impact of interceptor by droping close to enemy forces. I don't care what the enemy player is you can still get desired weapons into range of desired targets being they only have their deployment zone in which to maneuver in.

-If deployed properly and executed correctly you could potentially wipe out an opponents flank, which you should be doing with your Drop Pods anyway, keeping forces close together to create the best advantage.

And again your argument in regards to the range being such a huge factor for the Riptide is null and void, all it means is you have to utilize longer ranged weaponry, heavy armor (such as Land Raiders) and drop pods to name a few which are all easy to get for Imperial Armies. And yes the Dreadknight has to get closer but that Dreadknight or rather multiple Dreadknights (as ive never seen them taken alone, using your example of personal experiences to explain this) they get to shoot first and anything that does not have a 3+ armor save or better is going to die instantly to the torrent flamer, heavy Psycannon or potential instant death Pscilencer.

"No? And if I'm losing, then why has no one effectively addressed my points about the dreaded drop pod?"

People have. Just because no one shares your opinion about them sucking it doesn't mean that it hasn't been addressed.

SGTPozy wrote:

"No? And if I'm losing, then why has no one effectively addressed my points about the dreaded drop pod?"

People have. Just because no one shares your opinion about them sucking it doesn't mean that it hasn't been addressed.

I didn't say they suck. I said they can be gamed against and are a much bigger risk than Xeno players are making them out to be. I'd be less confident about this is I hadn't have to play this scenario over and over against SW. BA can't reliably assault SW and win. So we are forced to play shooty-scooty games after the SW drop all over my list. The Tau just do the EXACT same thing to Imperial drop lists except they do it better because they are designed to shoot better than BA.

"-Drop Pods are nasty against Tau because they can get special weapons into their most effective ranges"

Only if you let them.

"-You almost always will be going first allowing you to get First Blood. "

I addressed this. Pure drop lists divide and conquer themselves without any extra effort on your part. They may get first blood, but their opponent will almost certainly get last blood.

"You can negate the impact of interceptor by droping close to enemy forces"

Don't use interceptor. Just shoot them normally on your turn after they kill zero Riptides. After moving your units away, of course.

"-If deployed properly and executed correctly you could potentially wipe out an opponents flank, which you should be doing with your Drop Pods anyway, keeping forces close together to create the best advantage."

I have never seen an entire flank taken out by anything other than Centurion drops. Astartes in particular don't pack enough firepower to do what you describe.

"all it means is you have to utilize longer ranged weaponry"

Which cost a lot more and get fewer shots than short-range weaponry. What gets more shots per point? A lascannon or plasma gun? Please think about what you are writing here. The drop pod does not help if the Tau bubblewraps well and uses the board edges/impassable terrain (if any).

Martel732 wrote:


Is a Dreadknight or Riptide more likely to move closer to your list on its turn? The effective range of the Dreadknight vs the Ritpide is not anecdotal. It's mathematical. I'm also on 6X4 tables with terrain. This actually helps the Riptide, though, because I have to move through said terrain to get to the thing. Tau players frequently ravage one side of a list and pull the Riptides to that side and force the remaining forces to cross the table diagonal to get to them. Are your Tau players forgetting to move their Riptides?

Pretty much every single heavy weapon available to IoM is range 48". This leaves you to cover 24 inches in the most unfavorable case. Hell, a Fast Rhino or Predator moving flat out covers those 24 inches in a turn.

Also, in your opinion of the Riptide's survivability compared to the Dreadknight you're conveniently letting out the fact that the Dreadknight will be spending quite a few turns in close combat (thus being 100% immune to being shot at) and not many units have AP2 melee.

Regarding drop pods, what are your usual Tau opponents bubble wrapping their Riptides with?

LordBlades wrote:

Martel732 wrote:


Is a Dreadknight or Riptide more likely to move closer to your list on its turn? The effective range of the Dreadknight vs the Ritpide is not anecdotal. It's mathematical. I'm also on 6X4 tables with terrain. This actually helps the Riptide, though, because I have to move through said terrain to get to the thing. Tau players frequently ravage one side of a list and pull the Riptides to that side and force the remaining forces to cross the table diagonal to get to them. Are your Tau players forgetting to move their Riptides?

Pretty much every single heavy weapon available to IoM is range 48". This leaves you to cover 24 inches in the most unfavorable case. Hell, a Fast Rhino or Predator moving flat out covers those 24 inches in a turn.

Also, in your opinion of the Riptide's survivability compared to the Dreadknight you're conveniently letting out the fact that the Dreadknight will be spending quite a few turns in close combat (thus being 100% immune to being shot at) and not many units have AP2 melee.

Regarding drop pods, what are your usual Tau opponents bubble wrapping their Riptides with?

They don't have to against me, because I've largely stopped used drop pods with BA. But against SW and Salamanders, I've seen fire warriors and sniper Kroot used in conjunction with table edges. Salamanders, however, do have the option for drop Cents and TFCs. This makes them more dangerous than the BA or SW. But again, this is a function of TFCs and grav cents, not the drop pods.

"Dreadknight will be spending quite a few turns in close combat"

My ideal plan is to kill them before they can assault me. They conveniently put themselves in range of every weapon that can do it, too.

"Pretty much every single heavy weapon available to IoM is range 48".

But most can't hurt the Riptide. You NEED AP 2 or you are wasting your shots. See my above math for the autocannon.

"This leaves you to cover 24 inches in the most unfavorable case. Hell, a Fast Rhino or Predator moving flat out covers those 24 inches in a turn. "

Predators that move that far expose their sides and die.

Now your REALLY getting technical, if they are bubble wrapping their Riptides in Fire Warriors then flamers are your answer. Also being Blood Angels you can get several cheap flamer heavy squads in Drop Pods to deal with the problem. Also by doing that if you wipe everything out BUT the Riptides then you are in an advantageous position. And again you are making blind statements and personal experiences with no proof that they cannot be done, I've seen Riptides dropped by plasma Sternguard more then once. You don't have to agree with me, but saying "This is how it always is" is a very hypocritical statement as the Imperium has just as nasty stuff and just blind ignorance.