Riptide vs Dreadknight vs Wraithknight

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**Martel732**

SGTPozy wrote:
"You need to get the chip off your shoulder about IoM. It does NOT make for a good conversation when you are dismissing and diminishing the opposition in such a way."

Is it okay for people to hate Tau though? Why is it so preposterous that I might hate the IoM's shenanigans?

I do not defend the Riptide; did you not read my suggested nerf? Clearly not. However, I do defend the unfair view that the Riptide is the most broken thing ever and that the Dreadknight sucks.

The Dreadknights is highly maneuvable, puts out a tonne of shots, is a psyker and is a close-combat beast!
What about the Riptide? Unpredictable maneuvability, great shooting, no psychic ability and is mediocre at best in close-combat.

Tau do not ignore phases just because they can play gunline. By the same logic I can say SM don't use any phase because in my experience they do not move, do not use psykers, do not shoot and do not assault (because they're too busy whining like little IoM pansies).

Based off my previous calculations, the Dreadknight does kinda suck at taking damage.

**SGTPozy**

Here's a thought.; why don't we go through every army and rate which ones they can kill easiest instead of constantly allowing Martel to decide what they're compared against?

Which is easiest to kill for:
SM
BA
DA
SW
GK
Eldar
DE
Tau
IG
Sisters
Tyranids
Necrons
Orks
Daemons
CSM
(Might have missed some out but you get the point).

**Boniface**

Riptide kills all. Mwhahahah

**Martel732**

What exactly are you suggesting?

**Big Blind Bill**

So, 66% of the time, the Riptide will have a 3++/FNP save.

Whatever you say buddy.

Clearly someone and their riptides is giving you a hard time lol.

I advise using a different army for a bit, particularly one with more fast assault elements. It will really change your perspective on certain units.

**Martel732**

Big Blind Bill wrote:
So, 66% of the time, the Riptide will have a 3++/FNP save.

Whatever you say buddy.

Clearly someone and their riptides is giving you a hard time lol.

I advise using a different army for a bit, particularly one with more fast assault elements. It will really change your perspective on certain units.

What army do you suggest? Also, what is inaccurate about my statement about nova charging? I would think that if the Tau player sees a drop pod with plasma sternguard coming, they are going to nova charge until the sternguard have been committed.

**SGTPozy**

Boniface wrote:
Riptide kills all. Mwhahahah

No, I mean how easily the armies KILL them, not how easily they are killed by them.

E.g. Orks would kill the Riptide easiest since it lacks volume of shots (so worse than the Dreadknight) and will die in combat (whilst the Wraithknight will only be hurt by Nob's PKs).

**Boniface**

My dark angel devastators would kill that Rippy. Not that I have them anymore.

**Martel732**

SGTPozy wrote:
Boniface wrote:
Riptide kills all. Mwhahahah

No, I mean how easily the armies KILL them, not how easily they are killed by them.

E.g. Orks would kill the Riptide easiest since it lacks volume of shots (so worse than the Dreadknight) and will die in combat (whilst the Wraithknight will only be hurt by Nob's PKs).

You are assuming the Orks can ever catch it. I seriously doubt the Orks are the best list at killing Riptides.

**Boniface**

Can we start this thread else where if we're serious

**SGTPozy**

Martel732 wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:
Boniface wrote:
Riptide kills all. Mwhahahah

No, I mean how easily the armies KILL them, not how easily they are killed by them.

E.g. Orks would kill the Riptide easiest since it lacks volume of shots (so worse than the Dreadknight) and will die in combat (whilst the Wraithknight will only be hurt by Nob's PKs).

You are assuming the Orks can ever catch it. I seriously doubt the Orks are the best list at killing Riptides.

When did I say that they were the best? I DIDN'T so stop being an idiot. I gave Orks as an example as I know from experience that they find the Riptide easier to kill than the other two.

You need to stop thinking that it is impossible to assault a Riptide because guess what? IT ISN'T!

**Big Blind Bill**

Martel732 wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:
Boniface wrote:
Riptide kills all. Mwhahahah

No, I mean how easily the armies KILL them, not how easily they are killed by them.

E.g. Orks would kill the Riptide easiest since it lacks volume of shots (so worse than the Dreadknight) and will die in combat (whilst the Wraithknight will only be hurt by Nob's PKs).

You are assuming the Orks can ever catch it. I seriously doubt the Orks are the best list at killing Riptides.

Yeah SGTPozy , didn't you get the memo? Nothing can kill a riptide. Ever!

**SGTPozy**

Boniface wrote:
Can we start this thread else where if we're serious

No, I want this thread to get extremely long

**Martel732**

SGTPozy wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:
Boniface wrote:
Riptide kills all. Mwhahahah

No, I mean how easily the armies KILL them, not how easily they are killed by them.

E.g. Orks would kill the Riptide easiest since it lacks volume of shots (so worse than the Dreadknight) and will die in combat (whilst the Wraithknight will only be hurt by Nob's PKs).

You are assuming the Orks can ever catch it. I seriously doubt the Orks are the best list at killing Riptides.

When did I say that they were the best? I DIDN'T so stop being an idiot. I gave Orks as an example as I know from experience that they find the Riptide easier to kill than the other two.

You need to stop thinking that it is impossible to assault a Riptide because guess what? IT ISN'T!

"E.g. Orks would kill the Riptide easiest "

What does the above mean, then?

**SGTPozy**

Big Blind Bill wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:
Boniface wrote:
Riptide kills all. Mwhahahah

No, I mean how easily the armies KILL them, not how easily they are killed by them.

E.g. Orks would kill the Riptide easiest since it lacks volume of shots (so worse than the Dreadknight) and will die in combat (whilst the Wraithknight will only be hurt by Nob's PKs).

You are assuming the Orks can ever catch it. I seriously doubt the Orks are the best list at killing Riptides.

Yeah SGTPozy , didn't you get the memo? Nothing can kill a riptide. Ever!

I'm extremely upset how you had to edit my name in

**Martel732**

Big Blind Bill wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:
Boniface wrote:
Riptide kills all. Mwhahahah

No, I mean how easily the armies KILL them, not how easily they are killed by them.

E.g. Orks would kill the Riptide easiest since it lacks volume of shots (so worse than the Dreadknight) and will die in combat (whilst the Wraithknight will only be hurt by Nob's PKs).

You are assuming the Orks can ever catch it. I seriously doubt the Orks are the best list at killing Riptides.

Yeah SGTPozy , didn't you get the memo? Nothing can kill a riptide. Ever!

So tell me specifically what I should try, then.

**Boniface**

Ok. Serious answer.

Dark angel devastators with lascannons. =150 points.
4 S9 Ap2 shots with librarian in support for divination and possible PFG for 4++.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just one option

**Martel732**

Boniface wrote:
Ok. Serious answer.

Dark angel devastators with lascannons.
4 S9 Ap2 shots with librarian in support for divination and possible PFG for 4++.

How much does that cost? I'm just curious. And how long do you think it will take to bring one down? Also, one pie plate still halves that unit's firepower on average.

**Boniface**

So that's 245 points all in.

Maybe too many points.

**SGTPozy**

Martel732 wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:
Boniface wrote:
Riptide kills all. Mwhahahah

No, I mean how easily the armies KILL them, not how easily they are killed by them.

E.g. Orks would kill the Riptide easiest since it lacks volume of shots (so worse than the Dreadknight) and will die in combat (whilst the Wraithknight will only be hurt by Nob's PKs).

You are assuming the Orks can ever catch it. I seriously doubt the Orks are the best list at killing Riptides.

When did I say that they were the best? I DIDN'T so stop being an idiot. I gave Orks as an example as I know from experience that they find the Riptide easier to kill than the other two.

You need to stop thinking that it is impossible to assault a Riptide because guess what? IT ISN'T!

"E.g. Orks would kill the Riptide easiest "

What does the above mean, then?

Compared to the other two in question (read the title of this thread; you may have forgotten since you LOVE talking about Riptides).

Dreadknights have the most shots; so they will kill the most in the shooting phase.

It is also a beast in combat, but the Wraithknight wins since only power klaw guys can hurt it back.

Both knights are also characters so they can kill the nob first (unlike the Riptide).

Also, it is very easy to get to combat with Orks, they have a little thing called WAAAGH!

**Martel732**

Boniface wrote:
So that's 245 points all in.

That's actually pretty good. Is there any way to keep a pie plate from killing half the unit though?

"Dreadknights have the most shots; so they will kill the most in the shooting phase. "

That's far from a guarantee.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

SGTPozy wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:
Boniface wrote:
Riptide kills all. Mwhahahah

No, I mean how easily the armies KILL them, not how easily they are killed by them.

E.g. Orks would kill the Riptide easiest since it lacks volume of shots (so worse than the Dreadknight) and will die in combat (whilst the Wraithknight will only be hurt by Nob's PKs).

You are assuming the Orks can ever catch it. I seriously doubt the Orks are the best list at killing Riptides.

When did I say that they were the best? I DIDN'T so stop being an idiot. I gave Orks as an example as I know from experience that they find the Riptide easier to kill than the other two.

You need to stop thinking that it is impossible to assault a Riptide because guess what? IT ISN'T!

"E.g. Orks would kill the Riptide easiest "

What does the above mean, then?

Compared to the other two in question (read the title of this thread; you may have forgotten since you LOVE talking about Riptides).

Dreadknights have the most shots; so they will kill the most in the shooting phase.

It is also a beast in combat, but the Wraithknight wins since only power klaw guys can hurt it back.

Both knights are also characters so they can kill the nob first (unlike the Riptide).

Also, it is very easy to get to combat with Orks, they have a little thing called WAAAGH!

Oh I get it now. You want to analyze how easy or difficult it is for each list to bring down each of the three MCs of interest. So why is it easier for Orks to kill the MC that hangs back at 36"+ away as opposed to the ones that rush up to fight the entire list at point blank range?

**SGTPozy**

Well BS4, and any two of a torrent heavy flamer +1, a 6 shot psycannon and a 12 shot psylincer... Yeah, I can see how this will kill less Orks than a Riptide...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
It is about how easy it is to kill them, not how your opponent uses them.

**Martel732**

SGTPozy wrote:
Well BS4, and any two of a torrent heavy flamer +1, a 6 shot psycannon and a 12 shot psylincer... Yeah, I can see how this will kill less Orks than a Riptide...

Specifically against Orks, the Dreadknight will kill more with shooting. But it has to get very close to do this. That's not always the best idea.

**SGTPozy**

Martel732 wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:
Well BS4, and any two of a torrent heavy flamer +1, a 6 shot psycannon and a 12 shot psylincer... Yeah, I can see how this will kill less Orks than a Riptide...

Specifically against Orks, the Dreadknight will kill more with shooting. But it has to get very close to do this. That's not always the best idea.

In my experience it is hard to stay away from Orks... So yeah, the Dreadknight still wins. And yeah, what's wrong with talking about Orks? All you ever do is talk about IoM armies; they are only half if the armies.

**Martel732**

SGTPozy wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:
Well BS4, and any two of a torrent heavy flamer +1, a 6 shot psycannon and a 12 shot psylincer... Yeah, I can see how this will kill less Orks than a Riptide...

Specifically against Orks, the Dreadknight will kill more with shooting. But it has to get very close to do this. That's not always the best idea.

In my experience it is hard to stay away from Orks... So yeah, the Dreadknight still wins. And yeah, what's wrong with talking about Orks? All you ever do is talk about IoM armies; they are only half if the armies.

I didn't say there was anything wrong about talking about Orks.

**SGTPozy**

Then why "specifically against Orks"? It is the same against Daemons, IG and Tyranids.

**Martel732**

SGTPozy wrote:
Then why "specifically against Orks"? It is the same against Daemons, IG and Tyranids.

I really don't know if shunting over to Tyranids is a really solid idea. The other two, sure. So yeah, the Dreadknight is great at shooting infantry with poor saves. Am I supposed to be impressed by that?

**SGTPozy**

Martel732 wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:
Then why "specifically against Orks"? It is the same against Daemons, IG and Tyranids.

I really don't know if shunting over to Tyranids is a really solid idea. The other two, sure. So yeah, the Dreadknight is great at shooting infantry with poor saves. Am I supposed to be impressed by that?

Am I supposed to be shocked that an ap2 gun is good against marines?

**Martel732**

SGTPozy wrote:
Martel732 wrote:
SGTPozy wrote:
Then why "specifically against Orks"? It is the same against Daemons, IG and Tyranids.

I really don't know if shunting over to Tyranids is a really solid idea. The other two, sure. So yeah, the Dreadknight is great at shooting infantry with poor saves. Am I supposed to be impressed by that?

Am I supposed to be shocked that an ap2 gun is good against marines?

It's not just that. It's also how hard it is to get countermeasures within range of said AP 2 gun. It's how hard it is to silence that AP 2 gun. And it needs to be silenced because I don't have the marines to give away like Orks have Orks to give away. Look, we are at an impasse here. I'm sorry if my personal opinion bothers you this much. I'd rather you just put me on ignore at this point.

**SGTPozy**

Don't worry, it doesn't bother me (I hope that I haven't bothered you) I was just discussing that yes, the Riptide is powerful, but the others are also powerful and they are even better than Riptides against non-marines.