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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/08 21:04:13
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren
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If I want to create a solo tooled up close combat Lord who goes for the enemy deployment zone, which of these two choices do you think is better?
If I go down the Destroyer Lord route, Voidreaper, Phase Shifter, Nightmare Shroud and Phylactery are pretty much a must. This brings him to 215 points and he can still get one-shotted by a Railgun.
But at T6, 3 wounds, 2+/4++/5+++ and IWND, taking wounds off conventionally is pretty hard to do for the enemy.
As a jetbike character, he can move 6", run D6" (average: 3"), then make an assault move of 2d6" (average: 7") so he's still pretty fast. Turn 2 or turn 3 he should get the charge.
If I go down the Catacomb Command Barge route, it is base 165 points with the voidreaper. Has AV 13 quantum shielding, can move 12" and flat out 6", so should get a turn 2 charge guaranteed even if it starts the game behind cover. Phase Shifter, Nightmare Shroud and Phylactery also come in handy as it can use the Overlord, once the quantum shield is down, to take high strength low AP hits and use the chariot to absorb small arms fire. It is even better at cc because it gets D6 HoW attacks on the charge, and has WS5 instead of the Destroyer Lord's 4, although the Destroyer Lord does have Preferred Enemy to get a small bonus.
So yeah - CCB is 25 points costlier than the Destroyer Lord but is it better?
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2015/02/08 21:07:36
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/08 22:16:16
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Fixture of Dakka
Chicago, Illinois
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Their both situationally good, if you need a good beefy CC character to go with a Assault Squad, Destroyer Lord.
If you are running a Decurion and a heavy amount of troops. CCB.
CCB is insane still in it's damage absorbing capabilities.
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If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/08 23:24:27
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Tunneling Trygon
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Destroyer Lords are T6. I lost a tournament game back in the day because I thought they were toughness 5 as well
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/08 23:34:40
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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You can only have one relic per character, so no Voidreaper and Nightmare Shroud. Also, Command Barge moves 12" and can flat out 18".
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40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/09 03:26:22
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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Man, your info for Destroyer Lords is all over the place.
• How is a T6 model getting one shotted by a Railgun?
• He's Jet Pack, not a Jetbike character (I realize this is most likely a typo, but I'm pointing it out so new players don't get confused).
• As has been pointed out, you can't take multiple relics on the same character.
Now all that being said, a Destroyer Lord (Nightmare Shroud + Phase Shifter + Warscythe) attached to a unit of 10+ Flayed Ones deep struck into the opponent's backfield is nasty.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/09 04:25:35
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Ok a few things, first is you can only ever have 1 relic per character, so it`s the void reaper or the nightmare shroud. Nightmare Shroud is better since you can still take a warscythe and all you miss out is fleshbane(but your str7 who cares) and mastercrafted.
Second is your info on the Command Barge is wrong. It is a fast skimmer which means you can move 12" in the movement phase and then flat out in the shooting phase for 18 additional inches, guaranteeing you a turn 2 charge.
Third as it has been pointed out the Destroyer Lord is T6 it cannot be 1 shotted by a rail gun.
Really the difference is that the Command Barge is a lot faster ensuring quicker assaults while being much much safer from shooting due to the barge soaking small arms fire. However once in assault the barge becomes a liability and can be attacked to prevent the use of your 2+/4++/5+++. Meanwhile the Destroyer Lord is a bit slower only moving 6" and then running and then 2d6 in the assault. The Destroyer Lord can be downed with small arms fire and high shot output str 7 weapons aren't uncommon so he may need to make a lot of saves. However once in combat he is superior since he doesn't have a vehicle his enemy can strike they must hit the T6 2+/4++/5+++ character.
Each has his up's and downs. If you can escort the destroyer lord to combat via deepstriking flayed ones or running him with wraiths it mitigates some of his weakness to shooting.
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Psienesis wrote:While that's possible, it's also stupid to build your game around your customers being fething morons |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/09 09:03:50
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!
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Take the D. Lord as a Mephrit character and he can access Solar Thermasite for re-rolling saves of 1. It would also be a good idea to take him as part of a Decurion to bump the reanimation up to a 4+.
I think that if the rest of your army has an assault element, it'd be better to take the D. Lord. Either choice is good by itself, but the PE of the D. Lord gets maximum utility in a unit.
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Death Korps of Krieg Siege Army 1500 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/09 10:45:36
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Punisher wrote:Ok a few things, first is you can only ever have 1 relic per character, so it`s the void reaper or the nightmare shroud.
krodarklorr wrote:You can only have one relic per character, so no Voidreaper and Nightmare Shroud. Also, Command Barge moves 12" and can flat out 18".
Where does it say this? I honestly can't find it. On page 118 it just says "one of each per army".
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/09 11:20:14
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren
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very good advice I especially like this part.
So he works best when deepstruck with a unit of flayed ones for cheap ablative wounds or praetorians for all out AP2, then? Anything else would slow him down and wraiths are faster without him.
God In Action wrote:It would also be a good idea to take him as part of a Decurion to bump the reanimation up to a 4+.
sadly cant do this as you can only take destroyer lords in the destroyer cult detachment in a decurion
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/09 11:30:33
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/09 12:23:07
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Stealthy Grot Snipa
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Okapi wrote:Punisher wrote:Ok a few things, first is you can only ever have 1 relic per character, so it`s the void reaper or the nightmare shroud. krodarklorr wrote:You can only have one relic per character, so no Voidreaper and Nightmare Shroud.
Where does it say this? I honestly can't find it. On page 118 it just says "one of each per army". I would also like to know this. One of each relic per army is written in the artefacts page, while 'may take items from the....and/or artefacts of the aeons lists'. To me thats you can put them all on one character if you wish. I have seen this debate in a few threads spanning a few codex's. Has it been FAQ'd? or is this a general consensus people are agreeing to? as if it is I would have some doubt that in this latest Cron dex, which is a release after this debate started to pop up that GW would be aware that people are getting confused by it; hence would word it specifically, IE the wording in the cron dex being the RAI.. Any info would be greatly appreciated on this
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/09 12:23:35
Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/09 12:30:34
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Dakka Veteran
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P 65 war gear lists "a model may take one of the following"
under artifacts of aeons.
Shame but there it is.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/09 12:32:05
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Just checked Codices Orks, Eldar, Tau and Space Marines. In the first three I found no restrictions beyond "one per army". However, the Space Marine one says "a model can replace one weapon with one of the following", implying that a character can only take one chapter relic. Automatically Appended Next Post: Ah, there it is. Thanks!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/09 12:32:37
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/09 12:36:36
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Stealthy Grot Snipa
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Skullhammer wrote:P 65 war gear lists "a model may take one of the following"
under artifacts of aeons.
Shame but there it is.
ahhhh bummer.
Nvm
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Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/09 13:12:08
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!
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Sir Arun wrote:
very good advice I especially like this part.
So he works best when deepstruck with a unit of flayed ones for cheap ablative wounds or praetorians for all out AP2, then? Anything else would slow him down and wraiths are faster without him.
God In Action wrote:It would also be a good idea to take him as part of a Decurion to bump the reanimation up to a 4+.
sadly cant do this as you can only take destroyer lords in the destroyer cult detachment in a decurion
I'm planning on deepstriking a D. Lord with a full unit of Deathmarks. Their goal will be to eliminate something like a Dreadknight, Wraithknight or Riptide. The Lord then separates in the next turn to engage in CC. This unit can put out something like 15 hits on average, of which 97% wound, with 1 in 6 being rending, on the turn they arrive. After that point they aim to finish off the few remaining wounds of their target with reduced effectiveness, or camp an objective.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/09 13:14:27
Death Korps of Krieg Siege Army 1500 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/09 14:30:37
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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God In Action wrote:Take the D. Lord as a Mephrit character and he can access Solar Thermasite for re-rolling saves of 1. It would also be a good idea to take him as part of a Decurion to bump the reanimation up to a 4+.
I think that if the rest of your army has an assault element, it'd be better to take the D. Lord. Either choice is good by itself, but the PE of the D. Lord gets maximum utility in a unit.
Only Overlords can access Solar Thermasite or Edge of Eternity, so the D Lord cannot take either.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/09 18:27:25
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Freaky Flayed One
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col_impact wrote: God In Action wrote:Take the D. Lord as a Mephrit character and he can access Solar Thermasite for re-rolling saves of 1. It would also be a good idea to take him as part of a Decurion to bump the reanimation up to a 4+.
I think that if the rest of your army has an assault element, it'd be better to take the D. Lord. Either choice is good by itself, but the PE of the D. Lord gets maximum utility in a unit.
Only Overlords can access Solar Thermasite or Edge of Eternity, so the D Lord cannot take either.
Can a Mephrit Overlord Take a Solar Thermasite and say a Nightmareshroud?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/09 19:11:24
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
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In a Wraith heavy army I'd consider a DLord for tanking wounds.
He might slow down the unit a bit but not too much.
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Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/09 19:48:26
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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knightpredator wrote:col_impact wrote: God In Action wrote:Take the D. Lord as a Mephrit character and he can access Solar Thermasite for re-rolling saves of 1. It would also be a good idea to take him as part of a Decurion to bump the reanimation up to a 4+.
I think that if the rest of your army has an assault element, it'd be better to take the D. Lord. Either choice is good by itself, but the PE of the D. Lord gets maximum utility in a unit.
Only Overlords can access Solar Thermasite or Edge of Eternity, so the D Lord cannot take either.
Can a Mephrit Overlord Take a Solar Thermasite and say a Nightmareshroud?
Yup.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/16 06:36:58
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren
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So once in close combat the phase shifter and nightmare shroud's 2+ armor are all useless on the overlord since enemies will allocate hits onto the barge? Thats a shame. At least they hit the front armor so nothing below S7 can touch the barge while its quantum shielded and nothing below S5 once its off.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/16 08:12:34
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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Can still tarpit him. Seeing as how he's not all that killy, he's probably gonna be stuck there for a while.
Your opponent has effectively removed 200 points from your army.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/16 08:57:52
Subject: Re:Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The D Lord is better overall, but you have to pay a steep tax to bring him in the Decurion.
The bargeLord is better, and much much better than the D Lord, IF you bring a ton of (min?) Canoptek Harvest (at least 3x Harvests). With multiple harvests you can tie up whatever can kill the bargeLord in CC and once the stuff that can kill the bargeLord is tied up then the bargeLord is way way better than the D Lord. Heck, he is practically invulnerable once all the stuff that can kill him in CC is tarpitted.
I imagine you could also get the same effect from having a ton of Praetorians instead of Wraiths, Scarabs, and Spiders, but I haven't tested as much. I love me (3 to 4 )min Harvest spam and in that list the bargeLord fits like a peach cuz he gets to zoom around and do gak when the Harvest does its thang.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/03/16 09:09:46
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/16 13:40:47
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I don't know about "tax" destroyers are pretty decent with jsj. Plus it also allows you to bring the awesome heavy destroyers.
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Psienesis wrote:While that's possible, it's also stupid to build your game around your customers being fething morons |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/16 16:58:19
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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Im good with 2 units of Destroyers. Guys are the bane of all MEQ.
3 may be a bit much.
Formation would have been perfect with "2-4 units of Destroyers".
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/16 20:33:23
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Rampaging Carnifex
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Unfortunately they compete with other Fast Attack options. Mainly Tomb Blades and Wraiths. The Destroyer Cult at least gives 2 very good buffs for the Destroyers (rerolls to wound/pen and Move Through Cover).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/16 21:17:06
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Fixture of Dakka
Chicago, Illinois
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It's pretty amazing to use the Destroyer Cult with a CAD that has AV13 Spam w/ Triarchs.
It feels so good to be like, yes my BS5 Reroll 1s will shoot 10 times at that squad and reroll wounds as well.
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If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/16 21:29:46
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Tunneling Trygon
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That does sound like a ton of fun. I'm just not a fan of the destroyers, aesthetically. Truly the only reason I've yet to run them haha. The lord, on the other hand...well I'll excuse his ugliness for the absolute beatstick that he is
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/17 04:39:05
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Nimble Ellyrian Reaver
Longmont, Co
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Ive been getting frustrated with the D lords weapon skill. Definitely needs to bring killing power along.
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All of the things. Most of the time. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/17 04:47:07
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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Cauthon wrote:Ive been getting frustrated with the D lords weapon skill. Definitely needs to bring killing power along. I was upset that he did not receive the +1 WS and BS that Overlords did, but when you think about it, he is a Destroyer Lord, and therefore has a Lord's Statline, with higher toughness of course. And, thinking from Necron fluff, someone who has gone insane and looks to eradicate all flesh from the galaxy is not respected and entrusted with anything that an Overlord would be, much less a regular Lord.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/17 04:47:24
40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/17 12:04:13
Subject: Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Cauthon wrote:Ive been getting frustrated with the D lords weapon skill. Definitely needs to bring killing power along.
He has PE, so he hits about the same as a regular overlord just gets hit more.
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Psienesis wrote:While that's possible, it's also stupid to build your game around your customers being fething morons |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/17 12:12:20
Subject: Re:Destroyer Lords vs. Catacomb Command Barges
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Would be pretty nice to get a Destroyer Overlord named character.
Ideally with a half decent shooting attack so there's actually a reason to have him hang with his subordinates, but that's less likely.
Being a Necron Lord means wearing a metal kilt and stabbing people.
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