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Made in gb
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





I'm planning a Commando List that is historically representative, whilst not being entirely neutered. This is my very first bolt action list, and I'd liked comments mainly on ways to improve it's historical accuracy, but also an assurance (or warning!) that it will/won't be effective on the tabletop.

The list represents the 1st Special Service Bridge at Sword Beach, D-Day.

Veterean First Lieutenant + Veteran (counts as Lord Lovat and Piper Millin)
Regular Medic

Commandos x10 + Rifles x2 + Submachine Guns x6 + Vickers K LMG + Anti-tank Grenades
Commandos x5 + Rifles x3 + Vickers K LMG
Commandos x5 + Rifles x3 + Vickers K LMG

Veteran MMG

Veteran Sniper

Veterean Medium Mortar + Spotter

Veterean PIAT

Veterean Cruiser MK VIII Centaur CS

1000 points total

Questions I have: What was the real distribution of LMGs and other weapons in infantry squads? Were squads always landed at full capacity? Were any tanks or vehicles specifically landed with No. 3, 4 and 6 Command, and No. 45 RM Commando, or did tanks only join them from the nearby armoured brigades? (DD M4s did, I believe, so with no Warlord model to represent the M4 with the inflatable sceen I'm open to suggestions for other sources). Did Lord Lovat move inland with one specific Commando group?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/11 12:56:15


Death Korps of Krieg Siege Army 1500 
   
Made in ie
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!




Kildare, Ireland

The K-Guns were actually in the MMG Platoons and not the squads as they replaced some Vickers MMG in an effort to make a more mobile base of fire support. In the Commando troops would be Bren Guns.

Tank support would come from the Centaur, a rather mechanically unreliable vehicle sadly, and DD tanks.


 Strombones wrote:
Battlegroup - Because its tits.
 
   
Made in gb
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





I see, so what does the option to upgrade the Commando section LMG to a K-Gun represent? Is that sort of a shortcut to representing the K-Guns that were actually present outside of Commando sections?

Death Korps of Krieg Siege Army 1500 
   
Made in ie
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!




Kildare, Ireland

I suspect so... But there may be a historical reason...

In reality they seem to have replaced the Vickers MMGs or converted one Troop to Vickers K-Guns in an effort to provide a more fast moving fire support unit. They were not very effective due to their very high rates of fire and the ammunition expenditure was too much for the three man team to lug enough around to be of much use. They seemed to have dropped out of use soon after the initial days of fighting and been replaced with Vickers MMGs at some point.

No.4 Commando converted a single troop to a K-Gun troop with 8 K-Guns and 24 men in the troop (the French converted troop having only 4). All were loaded tracer heavy as the Commandos felt that tracer intimidated the enemy more.

Now No. 6 Commando also had K-Guns, but they may have allocated them to the support Sub-Sections (see below) rather than a single converted troop, but we cant be completely certain on that. Being Commandos these units had a high degree of flexibility in how they wanted to form and deploy equipment and of course little direct documentation exists on their exact organisation as it was adapted and improvised as seen fit. Anecdotally though the possibility exits that No. 6 Commando may have allocated their K-Guns into the troop sub-sections.

Just to add more... No 3. Commando doubled its allocation of Bren Guns for the landings to two per section. As you can see, it varied by unit to unit. No. 3 dont seemed to have used K-Guns and retained the Vickers MMGs in the Heavy Weapons Troop.

The K-Gun issues on D-Day were exasperated by lack of ammo mainly. Most troopers carried spare K-Gun mags in their rucksacks, the idea being to give it to the teams when needed, however alot of commandos dumped their rucksacks not long after landing to reduce weight and move faster.

A 13th/18th Hussars DD tanks with No. 4 Commando heading towards Quistreham;




Every unit varied a little, but basically...

RM Commando Troop 1944

TP HQ
Captain-pistol
1 or 2 LT-rifles
TSM-rifle

The Assault, Support and No.2 Sub Sections 27 all ranks made a Section with two Sections per Troop.

Assault Sub Section
SGT -Thompson
Rifle Group: CPL-Thompson, 5 Riflemen-rifles
Bren Group: Cpl-rifle, Gunner-BREN, 2 riflemen-rifles.

Support Sub Section
Cpl-Thompson, L/CPL-rifle, Mortarman-2inch Mortar,pistol, No.2-rifle, Sniper-Sniper Rifle.
No.2 SubSection
As Assault Sub Section but 18kg of explosives also carried.

Note: 1 Rifleman in the Assault Sub Section may be equipped with a Flamethrower.


Heavy Weapons Troops (2 Officers and 37 men)

Troop HQ (2 Officers, 4 men)

3-inch Mortar Section (17 men)

Medium Machine Gun Section (16 men)

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/02/11 14:12:43


 Strombones wrote:
Battlegroup - Because its tits.
 
   
Made in gb
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





No 4 Commando use the Vickers K, and fought alongside the DD Sherman. So here's an updated list. Since unfortunately there is no option to take a Vickers K-Gun as a MMG Team, I'm thinking the 5 man Commando teams with Vickers could approximate a second and third Vickers K armed MMG team.

Veteran Second Lieutenant + Veteran (Lovat and Millin)

Commando x10 + Submachine Gun x10
Commando x5 + Rifles + Vickers K Gun
Commando x5 + Rifles + Vickers K Gun

Veteran MMG Team

Veteran Sniper

Veteran Medium Mortar

Veteran PIAT

Regular Sherman Firefly VC

Edit: Thanks for the help, I'll work out the best way to fit this into the force selection rules.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Better still:

Veteran Second Lieutenant + Veteran (Rifles)
Veteran Medic

Commandos x6 + SMG + Rifles x5
Commandos x6 + SMG + Rifles x5
Commandos x6 + SMG + Rifles x5
Commandos x5 + Bren LMG + Rifles
Commandos x5 + Bren LMG + Rifles

Veteran Medium Mortar

Veteran MMG

Veteran Sniper

Veteran PIAT

Veteran Cruiser Centaur CS

1000 exactly

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/02/11 14:53:56


Death Korps of Krieg Siege Army 1500 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

That second list looks very fun. Be sure to take Tough As Boots as your special rule to make the most of those small sections.

   
Made in ie
Buttons Should Be Brass, Not Gold!




Kildare, Ireland

Id still take K-Guns... For no other reason than they look cool...



 Strombones wrote:
Battlegroup - Because its tits.
 
   
Made in hk
Nasty Nob






Big P wrote:
Id still take K-Guns... For no other reason than they look cool...


There's no better reason

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Terry Pratchett RIP 
   
Made in gb
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





I've been working on further variations of lists. It still represents the Commandos that landed at Sword Beach, specifically No. 3 Commando.

I'm wondering if there are 1) any obvious historical inaccuracies on the one hand, and 2) the suitability of the force in gaming terms.

Veteran Second Lieutenant + Veteran Assisant (could be either Lord Lovat + Piper Millin, or Peter Young!)
Veteran Medic
Regular Forward Artillery Observer

Commandos x 8 + rifles
Commandos x7 + rifles + Vickers K Gun
Commandos x7 + rifles + Vickers K Gun

Veteran Sniper
Veteran Medium Mortar + Spotter
Veteran Light Howitzer + Spotter

Veteran Centaur CS
Inexperienced Jeep + HMG
Inexperienced Jeep + HMG

1000 points total, 12 order dice. I'm thinking that the Jeeps could outflank, whose jobs is to put a couple pins on enemy side or rear armour, add a couple cheap order dice and waste a turn of the enemy's shooting. The 8 man Commando squad could outflank as needed. The artillery would soften the enemy, and as soon as the FAO's bombardment has hit, howitzer and mortar provide smoke for the Commandos to go grab whatever is needed. Tank can be moving cover for the same purposes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/26 15:50:56


Death Korps of Krieg Siege Army 1500 
   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

I think you have all your bases covered. The list looks like it should work well.

Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better. 
   
Made in us
Dwarf Runelord Banging an Anvil





Way on back in the deep caves

Seems legit.

Trust in Iron and Stone  
   
 
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