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I'd like to know what people play using 20mm models. This is regardless of genre, historical period, or rules set.

Do you play as single model on a base, or multiple models on a base? Anyone play "mass battle" scifi games at 20mm?

I'd also like to know what people consider the best 20mm models, specifically stuff that they think matches the quality of the best 28-32mm models. Extra exalts if you can provide or point to pictures of them. Even better if there's pictures of battles on a 6'x4' table.

I've done my usual searching online, but a lot of the pictures I find aren't of a full table in play. Although the best examples are of the latest Battlegroup WWII stuff, which always looks great. Napoleonics also looks great at the scale, although the tables seem crowded, even if they're also using larger tables.

I can't remember the names of the sites, but there were a few notable blogs and forums dedicated to 20mm gaming that I've lost the links to since my computer crashed a long time ago.

I occasionally do WW2 20mm stuff with some simple homemade rules just to get some use from my hordes of Airfix models and toy soldiers, and I have a fair few Ancients in the scale but no rules that I use for them. In any case, I use multi-based minis. I bluetac them to cardboard, typically 5, 10 or 20 to a base of the appropriate size. but magnets or double-sided tape could work too. If you want a link to the rules, I can dig one up.

As for manufacturers, for WW2, I've found Revell, Italeri and Tamiya to be good, with Airfix being a bit softer but comparably cheaper (in general, you'll get a box of about 50 guys for between £5 and £10ish). For Ancients, Hat Models are good (they come in bright yellow boxes, it's hard to miss them), but the ranges mentioned above also do a few kits from the period (and quite a lot of 19C stuff, Napoleonics and ACW ect).

20mm historicals are also available in metal. I don't know which manufacturer is best, but google "20mm historical figures" and you'll get a bunch of results. In my limited experience I have not seen many 20mm figures that match the detail of the best 28mm figures, but they are probably out there. It is a fairly niche scale these days. The Miniatures Page or Lead Adventure are good resources where you'll find folks gaming in 20mm.

On thing I do know is that there are very few 20mm or 1/72 scale miniatures in sci-fi. "Mass Battle" is also a term that will get very few results for smaller scale sci-fi gaming. Rather folks will tend to identify the size of the forces involved. (Platoon, Company, Battalion, etc)

For Company-level sci-fi gaming, you will find that most folks go to 15mm. There are a few popular 10mm games (DZC,etc) but outside of them 15mm has become the go-to intermediate scale for sci-fi gamers not using 6mm or 28mm. There are some 15mm figures that approach the quality of 28mm. Check out Khurasan's 15mm characters by Tom Meir and be amazed.

I have just been eyeing some but I like how cheap a lot of the plastic 1/72 figures are, like $15 for 40 some figures. Detail isn't amazing in most cases (also soft plastic ew) but it's good enough. I haven't actually tried any games yet as it's just kind of a pipe dream right now, but some of them are cheap enough that I kinda want to buy them just to paint and have.

I do a lot of 1/72 gaming. The first thing I want to say is that the porportions are far more realistic and even if a given kit is technically excellent in terms of sculpting and reproduction of detail, it will never look good to someone used to GW's style. In short, I don't think there is "specifically stuff that they think matches the quality of the best 28-32mm models" because the style is so different.

The smaller scale + different style means I can't think of a single example to show someone looking for an answer to that question. So I will say none of them. None match the quality of the best 28-32mm models. Now some metal sculpts might come close. Franznap is great, for example:




Overall, I think the boutique figure painter focus that 28/32mm has gotten over the last 15 years has pushed its quality well outside of what's largely available in 1/72. People putting out 28/32mm figures are pushing the envelope and really striving for people's attention for high end models. In 1/72, people are often thinking about dioramas and painting groups, or adding some infantry to go with some tanks in a display case.

There has been a great quality push in historical figures, but I think this has largely happened in 54mm and larger. For example, do an image search for 54mm Andrea painted.

To answer some other questions:

Do you play as single model on a base, or multiple models on a base?

I currently am playing ancients so I'm doing multiple models on a base. Usually like 8 figures on a 60mmx40mm rectangle. There are certain figures that might go on a individual base. I'm considering a rules set called Sword & Spear that has generals and leaders on small individual bases.

Anyone play "mass battle" scifi games at 20mm?

There aren't really many figures to choose from (can't think of any currently in production). Never heard of anyone doing it either.

I've done my usual searching online, but a lot of the pictures I find aren't of a full table in play.

It's primarily a scale for collectors, painters and diorama makers rather than wargamers. There are wargamers too though.

Places to check out:
http://bennosfiguresforum.com/
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/Index.aspx

Does it count if I use Arcane Legions minis for Kings of War?

WayneTheGame wrote:I have just been eyeing some but I like how cheap a lot of the plastic 1/72 figures are, like $15 for 40 some figures. Detail isn't amazing in most cases (also soft plastic ew) but it's good enough. I haven't actually tried any games yet as it's just kind of a pipe dream right now, but some of them are cheap enough that I kinda want to buy them just to paint and have.

They are ridiculously cheap and work well with speed painting techniques. One key is to stay flexible with all layers. A flexible primer (artist acrylic gesso or Vallejo's surface primer work good, as does simply using a good quality white glue 1 part to 3 parts water). Flexible paint (all our hobby acrylics like GW, P3, Vallejo, Army Painter whatever). And a sealer that stays flexible as well (most polyeruthane based ones. I use brush on varnish from Vallejo). There are a few specialty spray primers for soft plastic available at hardware stores and spray on clear rubber coatings that can take things to a whole new level in terms of durability.

They are not for everyone, so I'd recommend figuring out what era interests you and seeing about getting one or two boxes to try something simple out. What era were you thinking about just for painting? There are many where a single box can be split into two skirmish groups and you can have a legit game for $10-15 for miniatures with 20 figures a side. Often though, you'll need at least two boxes from different nationalities.



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 Vertrucio wrote:
I've done my usual searching online, but a lot of the pictures I find aren't of a full table in play.

People tend to want to show off their figures and take pictures of them more than taking pictures during a game. I know I don't like it when other participants at a game want to stop what we are doing to take photos. I tolerate it, but I'm not a fan. I'm probably not alone. Lots of people don't like being in photos or stopping their activities to put on a photo shoot.

Paul has a pretty cool 1/72 wargaming blog


http://paulsbods.blogspot.ca/2011/08/imperial-roman-army-172nd.html

I've found searching for 1/72 rules name painted gets more army and table shots.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=1/72+impetus+painted&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=8lvcVL_NLcL2yQT21ICADg&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1036&bih=593&gws_rd=cr




Strelets has a sculpting style that is a lot like 15mm metals. Deep recesses that look chunky but paint up really well.

But yeah, shots of units and armies are going to drastically outnumber game photos.

 frozenwastes wrote:

They are not for everyone, so I'd recommend figuring out what era interests you and seeing about getting one or two boxes to try something simple out. What era were you thinking about just for painting? There are many where a single box can be split into two skirmish groups and you can have a legit game for $10-15 for miniatures with 20 figures a side. Often though, you'll need at least two boxes from different nationalities.

Honestly no clue, I like a lot. I've been trying to convince my brother to do some historical or quasi-historical (think Conan's Hyborea) things where we pick an equivalent ancient civilization, since I have a couple of rules that I've gotten (DBA 2, Sword & Spear, Rally Round the King etc.). As far as just looks I really want to get one of the Napoleonic French units just so I can make a unit of them since I'm slowly becoming interested in that era, although since I don't have any Napoleonic rules I'd have zero idea what could be made :p. I mostly just browse Plastic Soldier Review and look at the pretty pictures right now to see what they say about the different sets.

So Ancients likely, maybe early Medieval/Dark Ages, Napoleonic for myself (brother isn't interested in Napoleon)

There's an old wargaming tradition of imaginary nations (or imagi-nations as they are sometimes called) where people make up their own country. The most popular period for this is the 18th century in Europe because of the huge number of little duchies and principalities, but I think it would work great for ancients as well. It's sort of like making up your own Space Marine chapter but instead it's a imaginary nation of the past. This would also work great for late antiquity/the early middle ages. Or doing little crusader kingdoms. Or small baronies that never were going to war.

You've got the right sort of rules for an accessible game. DBA, Sword & Spear and RRtK are all element based where you can put a four or so figures on a 60mm wide base and have a box of 1/72 go a long way in terms of building armies. The rules that have base depth matter like DBA can still be played if you go non-standard. I know there's lots of people who just go with 60x30 for infantry and then deeper as models need it for cavalry, elephants, chariots and the like and just play without worrying that a unit of one type should be slightly thinner than another.

The same sort of approach can work for Napoleonics as well. It can be a much harder time period to navigate as it's a large series of wars spanning almost two decades with a level of organization and documentation greater than almost anything that came before it. As well, the scope of the battles can be hard to come to grips with. Whether it's man to man skirmishing as one battalion approaches another or entire divisions under corps and army commanders. There's just so much there.

There are several well-known 10mm video games (DZC,etc) yet outside these 15mm is just about the go-to advanced level for sci-fi players not making use of 6mm or even 28mm.

Wanted to add also that Splintered Light and other companies do 20mm metal Fantasy.

Caesar and possibly another company have been doing plastic 20mm fantasy figures.

20mm fantasy gamers will often find 15 and 28mm figs of use. 28mm Goblins as orcs, 15mm Orcs as Goblins. 28mm Humans as giants, etc, etc...

There's a couple of blogs about this, but I don't recall them offhand.

I used to play Vietnam Skirmish using 20mm figures (metal) because they fit with 1/72 scale kits for vehicles and aircraft.

The guys in my club have extensive 1/72 scale collections.

Armourfast makes 1/72 vehicles specifically for gaming (acceptable detail, fast construction) as well as Plastic Soldier Company.

They have been using their collections to play Bolt Action.

The scale really works better than 28mm it seems, for tank battles.

I have been playing Kings of War with a LOTR theme...mixing 1/72 historical and 28mm GW fantasy.....thread here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/633915.page

That's awesome. I think it really shows the nature of some 1/72 plastics being about groups of troops rather than individual figures. Sort of like 6mm, 10mm and 15mm, but just bigger.

Anyone who has seen Rogue Trader era orcs knows just how big GW's scale has crept up over the last couple decades. When I first saw the 6th edition fantasy plastic orcs I was shocked at how big they were. They're pretty much ogre sized in 28mm and are perfect for use with 1/72.

Have you seen any of Caesar's fantasy stuff in 1/72? Their elves might work for you.

http://cheapfantasyminis.blogspot.com/2015/01/new-caesar-fantasy-comparisons.html
http://www.plasticsoldierreview.com/ShowFeature.aspx?id=39

Thousands of 20mm WW2 miniatures and still the most popular size for that genre, though 15mm and 28mm are catching up, neither has such massive variety as 20mm.

AB Figures are likely the finest WW2 figures available in any scale.

If you want to see more 20mm WW2 then our forum;

www.guildwargamers.com

...has thousands of pics from our members and manufacturers online.



As for tables...

Zvezda's Samurai Battles.

Impressive sculpts, crisp cast, nice variety in a unit (3-6 miniatures). 122 miniatures in the big box, 64 in the Ninja Attack box and you can buy additional units separately, including baggage trains for archers.

Comes with two rule sets for scenario-based big battles (C&C and Art of Tactic) and a lot of additional scenarios online.

Only downside is that they cancelled the monk warriors supposed to come out this year.

And a box of heroes would be awesome for skirmis games (Saga, Ronin) but I guess we need to stick with Kensei minis for that.

 treslibras wrote:
Zvezda's Samurai Battles.

Impressive sculpts, crisp cast, nice variety in a unit (3-6 miniatures). 122 miniatures in the big box, 64 in the Ninja Attack box and you can buy additional units separately, including baggage trains for archers.

Comes with two rule sets for scenario-based big battles (C&C and Art of Tactic) and a lot of additional scenarios online.

Only downside is that they cancelled the monk warriors supposed to come out this year.

And a box of heroes would be awesome for skirmis games (Saga, Ronin) but I guess we need to stick with Kensei minis for that.

Actually, I think I have that. I bought it on a whim a few years ago, and while I never got to grips with the rules, the minis were among the best Ilve seen in the scale. I may have to paint some up now you've reminded me of it...

Ah, a few years ago, me and my two brothers collected Airfix and Italeri WWII models, and we used to have tiny battles with them. Ah, the memories.

Got my start in miniatures gaming using 20mm in the 80s.

Cold war-gone hot moderns. Using the Roco minitanks stuff, as well as airfix figures (1/72) and some other stuff.

Haven't played in that scale in decades. Last game was a week long thing during 1990ish when we played through Gulf War 1 using CNN AARs.

The great thing with 1/72 is the massive projects you could pull off with rather cheap plastic kits.

Battle of Hoth, large scale battletech or even large scale x-wing (if you have a big back yard, the scaled up map would be 12'x 12'). 1/72 star wars fighters go for around $18US.

Or modern day military battle at an airport, lots of cheap civilian airliners at this scale.