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 thedarkavenger wrote:



It can work, but it's inferior to every other combat army under the sun.

Dwarf movement is so lackluster, it's practically not worth doing, and moving makes your army much more vulnerable. Hence, a dwarf player that moves is doing it wrong.

Beastmen beg to differ. I mean...I can't even think of a list that couldn't beat Beastmen, haha.

In the old edition of fantasy dwarves, halflings and ogres were all available in the empire list.
So there is a precedence for that combinatin.
seems like elves will combine.
Chaos I assume will combine as will undead.
Leaving: skaven, ong and lizardmen. Brets I am sure will get tossed in with empire.

So I think it will be 6 armies:
Humans, dwarves, ogres etc in one
elves
lizardmen
chaos
skaven
undead

My 2 cents which in Canada now rounds down so take it for what its worth!

So I think it will be 6 armies:
Humans, dwarves, ogres etc in one
elves
lizardmen
chaos
skaven
undead

If tis 6 I would go with the following based on the ET books

Humans, Dwarves, Ogres
Elves - all three
Lizardmen
Chaos including Skaven
Undead
Orcs and Goblins - may also have Ogres

May have the ability to mix and match "unbound" as 40k and def will have allies rules. Both of which work fine with the fluff for the most part but likely not as well with balance - but that's not really a major concern of GW's.

 thedarkavenger wrote:


It can work, but it's inferior to every other combat army under the sun.

Dwarf movement is so lackluster, it's practically not worth doing, and moving makes your army much more vulnerable. Hence, a dwarf player that moves is doing it wrong.

In 8th edition you may be right. In 6th, you'd be wrong. And in either case, it shouldn't be right. Dwarfs should be an army of hard-as-nails infantry who may move up the board slowly, but who grind anyone foolish enough to engage them head-on beneath their ironshod boots. And I do mean anyone. In the background, Dwarfs are consistently described as the finest infantry in the world, yet their rules have rarely even come close to reflecting this, one of the greatest crimes in my personal Book of Grudges.

The tactical game then becomes to make sure you don't get hit in the flanks (bam! Slayers are useful) and to force the opponent to engage you head-on.

If you're wondering how well they're doing in the End Times I'll put it this way. Bugman is the only Dwarf left.

 WarbossDakka wrote:
If you're wondering how well they're doing in the End Times I'll put it this way. Bugman is the only Dwarf left.

Ahem. Ungrim and his Slayers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:



It can work, but it's inferior to every other combat army under the sun.

Dwarf movement is so lackluster, it's practically not worth doing, and moving makes your army much more vulnerable. Hence, a dwarf player that moves is doing it wrong.

Beastmen beg to differ. I mean...I can't even think of a list that couldn't beat Beastmen, haha.

I've tabled a WoC Knight deathstar under the old WoC book(3++ and Stubborn) with 22 Gor.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
It's already known that Dwarfs got their asses kicked by Skaven pretty hardcore. Dwarfs lost the war and the only thing left for debate is whether they will make it into 9th at all or just get gutted.

Maybe, they build a giant cannon to shoot themselves on a moon or something. But that would be ridicu...wait.

The dwarfs MUST survive. They have to. Even if they are folded into another race, that is still surviving.
God help the dwarfs.

I dint mind if dwarfs survive if they loathe majority of their war machines. Which is likely, as the survivors are all slayers.

I think you just solved the question my friend. The Dwarfs will be rolled into the Empire as slayers and thats all thats left.

There are also populations of Dwarves in the Empire - though WFB usually ignores this - so there might be enough left for a "breeding population"...............

Pretty sure dwarves/dwarfs (whichever WHFB uses) will become the Empire air force with their amazing Gyrocopters...


Ok, seriously, I doubt the dwarves will be gone in 9E. Their ranks are gonna be thinned out of course, maybe their infantries will be removed altogether if they are to become part of the Empire + Bretonnia army. Heke, I could see Kislev in there too if GW cared to make Tsarist models. Point is, the dwarven war machines can be easily put in a human + dwarf army, and even the dwarven infantries, apart from slayers, can still be salvaged by making all of them one unit with access to different weapon/armor upgrades. Slayers will have to be a unit on its own. On the other hand, if the rumors about the so-called "army of light" are true, it might be difficult to run a pure dwarf army in 9E

Hey, remember how the Elves got Merwyrms as a permanent fixture after Storm of Chaos?
Or how Warriors of Chaos got Dark Elves and Repeater Crossbows?

The likelihood of GW radically altering the shape of the game because of the fluff is not necessarily as certain as people keep talking about.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Hey, remember how the Elves got Merwyrms as a permanent fixture after Storm of Chaos?
Or how Warriors of Chaos got Dark Elves and Repeater Crossbows?

The likelihood of GW radically altering the shape of the game because of the fluff is not necessarily as certain as people keep talking about.

Did anything from Storm of Chaos last beyond that book? - much as I enjoy it.............

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Hey, remember how the Elves got Merwyrms as a permanent fixture after Storm of Chaos?
Or how Warriors of Chaos got Dark Elves and Repeater Crossbows?

The likelihood of GW radically altering the shape of the game because of the fluff is not necessarily as certain as people keep talking about.

Did anything from Storm of Chaos last beyond that book? - much as I enjoy it.............

A terrible ending and a full retcon.

And the retcon is why GW is hated....sorry gonna rant a bit here. Fantasy used to be my favorite game but with the changes GW has made since the end of 7th ed (daemons FUUK YOU matt ward) till now have completely pushed me out of the game. And now they plan to destroy the absolutely wonderful setting they had in the Old world and create some god-awful monstrosity of space setting so that they can continue to 40K-iefy the game. Ballz on all of them - killed the dwarves, sent the lizardmen (Really one of their unique races) to the stars while completely screwing over the rest of the "Good" races with God-like foes of Archaon and his daemonic cronies, dreadnought skaven and rat god and Nagash - forget it i just have to stop the game is beyond saving now, hopefully KOW will be decent

Papasmurf (I normally say cheers but I am too miffed)

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
It will all turn out that WHFB is actually set at the very end of the age of strife and the end times are the reunification of terra. Karl Franz is actually the Emperor of Mankind.

*cough* https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-Y6JivIEAA1RLX.jpg:large *cough*

Draigo encountered in the Warp, Skaven calling the Eldar by accident, and now this... The bring-back to the days where Fantasy and 40K was the same is cool, it really is, but...

Just... Holy balls, man.

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
It will all turn out that WHFB is actually set at the very end of the age of strife and the end times are the reunification of terra. Karl Franz is actually the Emperor of Mankind.

*cough* https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-Y6JivIEAA1RLX.jpg:large *cough*

Draigo encountered in the Warp, Skaven calling the Eldar by accident, and now this... The bring-back to the days where Fantasy and 40K was the same is cool, it really is, but...

Just... Holy balls, man.

That dark sorcerer is Nagash. He uses his necromancy to resurrect the emperor. Which would still be better storytelling than having a MOON shot down and sending an army into space.

I now feel the need to point out that moons affect gravity.

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
It will all turn out that WHFB is actually set at the very end of the age of strife and the end times are the reunification of terra. Karl Franz is actually the Emperor of Mankind.

*cough* https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-Y6JivIEAA1RLX.jpg:large *cough*

Draigo encountered in the Warp, Skaven calling the Eldar by accident, and now this... The bring-back to the days where Fantasy and 40K was the same is cool, it really is, but...

Just... Holy balls, man.

This is open to interpretation:

The sorceror is Ahriman
The king could be the emperor or the Silent king
The champion is Abbadon

Makes more sense in 40k than interpreting it into fantasy,

Or in fantasy terms.

The sorcerer could be Egrimm van Horstman.
The king could be Nagash.
The champion could be Archaon.

Fantasy characters in 40k anyone?

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
It will all turn out that WHFB is actually set at the very end of the age of strife and the end times are the reunification of terra. Karl Franz is actually the Emperor of Mankind.

*cough* https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-Y6JivIEAA1RLX.jpg:large *cough*

Draigo encountered in the Warp, Skaven calling the Eldar by accident, and now this... The bring-back to the days where Fantasy and 40K was the same is cool, it really is, but...

Just... Holy balls, man.

That dark sorcerer is Nagash. He uses his necromancy to resurrect the emperor. Which would still be better storytelling than having a MOON shot down and sending an army into space.

I now feel the need to point out that moons affect gravity.

There's also two moons, and the one moon that got shot was literally made of Chaos Afflicted Warp Stone and vastly smaller then the other.

Indeed it is a moon of indeterminate size and mass - made of "solidified" warp energy - warpstone

Getting back to the question at hand...all dwarves will be murdered, as it is discovered burnt dwarf hair makes for a potent Skaven-aphrodisiac.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Getting back to the question at hand...all dwarves will be murdered, as it is discovered burnt dwarf hair makes for a potent Skaven-aphrodisiac.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
It will all turn out that WHFB is actually set at the very end of the age of strife and the end times are the reunification of terra. Karl Franz is actually the Emperor of Mankind.

*cough* https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-Y6JivIEAA1RLX.jpg:large *cough*

Draigo encountered in the Warp, Skaven calling the Eldar by accident, and now this... The bring-back to the days where Fantasy and 40K was the same is cool, it really is, but...

Just... Holy balls, man.

That dark sorcerer is Nagash. He uses his necromancy to resurrect the emperor. Which would still be better storytelling than having a MOON shot down and sending an army into space.

I now feel the need to point out that moons affect gravity.

There's also two moons, and the one moon that got shot was literally made of Chaos Afflicted Warp Stone and vastly smaller then the other.

It still affects Gravity. Just to the point that tides are altered and the people of the world can jump higher.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
It will all turn out that WHFB is actually set at the very end of the age of strife and the end times are the reunification of terra. Karl Franz is actually the Emperor of Mankind.

*cough* https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-Y6JivIEAA1RLX.jpg:large *cough*

Draigo encountered in the Warp, Skaven calling the Eldar by accident, and now this... The bring-back to the days where Fantasy and 40K was the same is cool, it really is, but...

Just... Holy balls, man.

That dark sorcerer is Nagash. He uses his necromancy to resurrect the emperor. Which would still be better storytelling than having a MOON shot down and sending an army into space.

I now feel the need to point out that moons affect gravity.

There's also two moons, and the one moon that got shot was literally made of Chaos Afflicted Warp Stone and vastly smaller then the other.

It still affects Gravity. Just to the point that tides are altered and the people of the world can jump higher.

Actually they wouldn't be able to jump as high or higher depending on where it was. The gravitational pull of the chaos moon would either oppose or compound with the gravitational pull of the planet depending on where it is in relation to the person/thing jumping.

Dwarves are a basic part of the fantasy genre. Not supporting them would alienate many consumers/fans and simply be a bad business decision. But that does not mean GW will not still do it.

With that said, luckily Kings Of War (KoW) is a very smooth game system (its especially good if you are a Dwarf player) and the KoW game totally supports folks using other games models...I know how I'll be using my existing Dwarves and spending my money -- on Kings Of War!

 Nurgle's Head Cheese wrote:


) and the KoW game totally supports folks using other games models..

For now. If KoW pick up a significant market share I expect this to change. Right now they're new and getting people to play is more important than selling models, think of it as an investment.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

For now. If KoW pick up a significant market share I expect this to change.

While the situation is all hunky-dory right now, I can't help but agree with this. With KoW's rise in popularity following the WFB upsets of the last couple of editions and the next, and the current fad for 'all-in-one' rules+minis packages, I don't think it's altogether unlikely.

Not to mention, yeah, of course the game allows you to use what minis you like. Most games do. I feel a sudden urge to point a few of them out.

Every time people mention KoW, I remember the Elf army I have sitting in a closet that I won from naming the Ironwatch...

And how, despite the models supposedly being "huge sellers" I have never seen anyone playing the game.

 Stormonu wrote:
Gee, its as if they don't realize their in-house magazine is named White Dwarf.

Black Gobbo will rise again!!

 Vermis wrote:

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:

For now. If KoW pick up a significant market share I expect this to change.

While the situation is all hunky-dory right now, I can't help but agree with this. With KoW's rise in popularity following the WFB upsets of the last couple of editions and the next, and the current fad for 'all-in-one' rules+minis packages, I don't think it's altogether unlikely.

Not to mention, yeah, of course the game allows you to use what minis you like. Most games do. I feel a sudden urge to point a few of them out.

The Kings Of War (Mantic) designers/managers are pretty up front about their company being focused on gaming Not shareholders etc. They are very blunt about not even trying to produce models for their Human Empire, because so many other companies offer gamers so many nice options, yet they still go right on writing and supporting their Human Empire as they develop their universe etc. And KoW has been out for almost 5 years now, so the belief that Mantic is eventually going to try to force its supporters to use their models just sounds like cynicism. Although they did announce at their tournaments that only Mantic armies were eligible for their Best Overall award and supposedly they explained the reason for this was that the Best Overall would be photographed etc. And featuring another companies models in photos could get complicated.

With all that said I still love my GW Dwarves and all their shooty fun. But I refuse to let mine sit on a shelf because GW has a hair brained approach to their IP driven vision of WHFB. I've tried playing unsupported/older edition games before and that quickly grows stale, so sticking with 8th ed is not an option IMHO. So IF the rumors are as bad as folks are predicting regarding 9th ed, and Dwarfs end up on the GW cutting room floor, then I encourage all Dwarf lovers out there to please consider joining me in my defection to the /Mantic/Kings Of War universe Cheers.

I hope dwarves don't get squatted. But there's a possibility of them getting rolled into empire.