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Does it really matter how they perform in game? The models are beautiful.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
8th Ed will see Pistols used as CCWs with their S and AP, not the models. This will be one of the fundamental changes to the game that encourages Assaults, making the new Harliquins viable. This new codex was written for 8th, not 7th.

Just say'n.

SJ

We can only hope.

 ImAGeek wrote:
Well, they're Eldar, so they fight at least as well as any other Eldar (which is pretty damn good, quick, strong, insane reactions etc) and their dance is probably more like a martial art than a dance.

Why is it after reading this and saying it's not a dance, people think it's an actual dance? Now I can't get it out of my head the Harlequins are doing Gangum Style dance now.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
They're not an army, they're an ally book. It's like the GK, you don't field them alone, you field them to get stuff for Eldar/DE.

Eldar or DE don't need Harlie allies.
There is nothing Harlies could give them in a world of shootyness.

Sanctic for the deathstar and a decent melee unit to pop out of Raiders if you're playing casually enough that your Raider lasts longer than a kite made of tissue paper in a Dragonlance fight.

I'm not familiar with this.
Please elaborate.

A summary of this thread so far.

"it's not really an army"

"then why does it have a codex>?"

"you don't need to win every game you know!"

Also, to all those people saying "it's meant for allies ya silly gooses" then how can that be possible without an HQ choice?

 Lord of Misrule wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Maybe they're for fun rather than winning?

I question the fun to be had from watching your army get kerbstomped as it fails to live up to its background fluff.

In general, I'd be inclined to withhold judgement until the rules are all out there, but the immediate prognosis is that there's no point pretending that Harlequins by themselves will be able to provide a worthwhile match to 'proper' 40k armies; they're just a dataslate for Eldar and Deldar.

We just need to find out if that detachment is the only way to take them or if you can take the individual units on their own. If its just the detachment then its a minimum of 500pts of models that don't have much punch or defense, then more points invested with the meager defense of the shadowseers.

Then you play against drop pod marines and lose a majority of your army in a single turn. T3 and 5++ doesn't go very far.

 Crablezworth wrote:
A summary of this thread so far.

"it's not really an army"

"then why does it have a codex>?"

"you don't need to win every game you know!"

Also, to all those people saying "it's meant for allies ya silly gooses" then how can that be possible without an HQ choice?

Unless I'm mistaken, isnt this an HQ?

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Solitaire

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
A summary of this thread so far.

"it's not really an army"

"then why does it have a codex>?"

"you don't need to win every game you know!"

Also, to all those people saying "it's meant for allies ya silly gooses" then how can that be possible without an HQ choice?

Unless I'm mistaken, isnt this an HQ?

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Solitaire

Pretty sure it's an elite.

Arnais wrote:
It always has bugged me that the so called much more advanced technology of the eldar is never really show on table top. Armour is worse, fusion guns are worse, plasma weapons are worse, bright lance is 90% of the times worse than a las cannon, ccw are worse, flyesr are worse, and my personal favorite, SM can easily get 3++ inv and the best the "advanced" eldar are able to give to their wraith constructs is a 5++.

I mean that is just the marine bios the game is built on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
They're not an army, they're an ally book. It's like the GK, you don't field them alone, you field them to get stuff for Eldar/DE.

Eldar or DE don't need Harlie allies.
There is nothing Harlies could give them in a world of shootyness.

Cheap way to field 2 shuirken cannons on a mobile platform. They aren't waveserpents, but for DE spamming venoms, having some str6 ap 2 in there adds a lot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SweaterKittens wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
They're not an army, they're an ally book. It's like the GK, you don't field them alone, you field them to get stuff for Eldar/DE.

Eldar or DE don't need Harlie allies.
There is nothing Harlies could give them in a world of shootyness.

Sanctic for the deathstar and a decent melee unit to pop out of Raiders if you're playing casually enough that your Raider lasts longer than a kite made of tissue paper in a Dragonlance fight.

Agreed, also overlooking the fact that they cover more niches than the base armies (Eldar/DE). The Jetbikes would be great in tandem with Reavers, the Solitaire is probably a better fighter than most of the DE HQ's, and Harlequins are basically Wyches that can actually do their damn job.

DE combat HQs suck, GW dropped the ball on that. So yes, Harlies add a lot to DE.

metaphorical thread summary:

"this pizza tastes horrible"

"it's meant to be a taco"

"yeah but taco or pizza, it still tastes bad"

"people who care if things taste good are whiners, no ones forcing you to eat ya know!"

 Exergy wrote:

Arnais wrote:
It always has bugged me that the so called much more advanced technology of the eldar is never really show on table top. Armour is worse, fusion guns are worse, plasma weapons are worse, bright lance is 90% of the times worse than a las cannon, ccw are worse, flyesr are worse, and my personal favorite, SM can easily get 3++ inv and the best the "advanced" eldar are able to give to their wraith constructs is a 5++.

I mean that is just the marine bios the game is built on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
They're not an army, they're an ally book. It's like the GK, you don't field them alone, you field them to get stuff for Eldar/DE.

Eldar or DE don't need Harlie allies.
There is nothing Harlies could give them in a world of shootyness.

Cheap way to field 2 shuirken cannons on a mobile platform. They aren't waveserpents, but for DE spamming venoms, having some str6 ap 2 in there adds a lot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SweaterKittens wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
They're not an army, they're an ally book. It's like the GK, you don't field them alone, you field them to get stuff for Eldar/DE.

Eldar or DE don't need Harlie allies.
There is nothing Harlies could give them in a world of shootyness.

Sanctic for the deathstar and a decent melee unit to pop out of Raiders if you're playing casually enough that your Raider lasts longer than a kite made of tissue paper in a Dragonlance fight.

Agreed, also overlooking the fact that they cover more niches than the base armies (Eldar/DE). The Jetbikes would be great in tandem with Reavers, the Solitaire is probably a better fighter than most of the DE HQ's, and Harlequins are basically Wyches that can actually do their damn job.

DE combat HQs suck, GW dropped the ball on that. So yes, Harlies add a lot to DE.

Exergy, are you serious about Harlie allies for DE?

 wuestenfux wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
They're not an army, they're an ally book. It's like the GK, you don't field them alone, you field them to get stuff for Eldar/DE.

Eldar or DE don't need Harlie allies.
There is nothing Harlies could give them in a world of shootyness.

Sanctic for the deathstar and a decent melee unit to pop out of Raiders if you're playing casually enough that your Raider lasts longer than a kite made of tissue paper in a Dragonlance fight.

I'm not familiar with this.
Please elaborate.

What, Sanctic? I'm not supposed to give out complete rules but the table you roll on includes remove psyker and unit from play and Deep Strike them back in, +2S to psyker and unit, +1 Inv to psyker and unit, 4e-Codex Mind War, a nova that hits every enemy unit within 9" of the psyker with 2d6 Ignores Cover heavy bolter hits, and a vortex grenade.

As for "kite made of tissue paper in a Dragonlance fight" that was whimsical hyperbole referring to the fact that a kite made of tissue paper isn't going to last all that long in the middle of an aerial battle between armies of dragons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(For those that don't see if if you have Hammerhand, Sanctuary, Protect, and Fortune up all at once your Ghost Axe Wraithblade unit is S10 and comes with a 2+/3++ rerollable)

pm713 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
A summary of this thread so far.

"it's not really an army"

"then why does it have a codex>?"

"you don't need to win every game you know!"

Also, to all those people saying "it's meant for allies ya silly gooses" then how can that be possible without an HQ choice?

Unless I'm mistaken, isnt this an HQ?

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Solitaire

Pretty sure it's an elite.

Yeah the Solitaire is an elite.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
They're not an army, they're an ally book. It's like the GK, you don't field them alone, you field them to get stuff for Eldar/DE.

Eldar or DE don't need Harlie allies.
There is nothing Harlies could give them in a world of shootyness.

Sanctic for the deathstar and a decent melee unit to pop out of Raiders if you're playing casually enough that your Raider lasts longer than a kite made of tissue paper in a Dragonlance fight.

I'm not familiar with this.
Please elaborate.

What, Sanctic? I'm not supposed to give out complete rules but the table you roll on includes remove psyker and unit from play and Deep Strike them back in, +2S to psyker and unit, +1 Inv to psyker and unit, 4e-Codex Mind War, a nova that hits every enemy unit within 9" of the psyker with 2d6 Ignores Cover heavy bolter hits, and a vortex grenade.

As for "kite made of tissue paper in a Dragonlance fight" that was whimsical hyperbole referring to the fact that a kite made of tissue paper isn't going to last all that long in the middle of an aerial battle between armies of dragons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(For those that don't see if if you have Hammerhand, Sanctuary, Protect, and Fortune up all at once your Ghost Axe Wraithblade unit is S10 and comes with a 2+/3++ rerollable)

Thanks for pointing out. Sanctic. Yes please.

 Crablezworth wrote:
A summary of this thread so far.

"it's not really an army"

"then why does it have a codex>?"

"you don't need to win every game you know!"

Also, to all those people saying "it's meant for allies ya silly gooses" then how can that be possible without an HQ choice?

Because allies don't necessarily need an HQ?

An Allied Detachment needs an HQ, however, so your Harlies cannot get ObSec, unless one of the faction specific formations/detachments gives it,

there not ment to be a stand alone army, they don't need a full range in weaponry and equipment.

there to add support and flavour to another army.

 jhe90 wrote:
there not ment to be a stand alone army, they don't need a full range in weaponry and equipment.

there to add support and flavour to another army.

No, they don't.
They give Marine players an opportunity to play an army with a very different play style.

 calamarialldayerrday wrote:
Does it really matter how they perform in game? The models are beautiful.

Rule of Cool clearly states that how well a model performs in game is directly proportional to how pleasing it is to the eye. Fact.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
there not ment to be a stand alone army, they don't need a full range in weaponry and equipment.

there to add support and flavour to another army.

No, they don't.
They give Marine players an opportunity to play an army with a very different play style.

True as well as somthing that's abit more varied to paint.
Power armour can be samey at times.

After checking out the rumored formations in the news and rumor thread, these beasties will not need to ally with ANYBODY! Most of the formations allow run and charge starting turn two, their psycker powers are rediculous, and the death jester has to be the most manipulative character in the game. Also, for competitive minded individuals, the death jester and shadowseer may only roll a d3 for warlord traits. That gives you a much better chance to have a cherry warlord trait to plan around. Gonna be fun

I get that their vehicles will die in a stiff breeze and are very pricy but they hit like a truck and have Shadowseers to keep them relatively safe via the huge amount of psychic tinkerery they have.

Now that pretty much all the rules have been released I think we will see some people starting to play test them and I'm expecting to be pleasantly surprised by the results.

A Masque allied with DE looks amazing on paper.

 jhe90 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
there not ment to be a stand alone army, they don't need a full range in weaponry and equipment.

there to add support and flavour to another army.

No, they don't.
They give Marine players an opportunity to play an army with a very different play style.

True as well as somthing that's abit more varied to paint.
Power armour can be samey at times.

Painting a checkered board is an issue.
Only doable by an advanced painter.

sweetbacon wrote:
Intriguing. Is this based on any inside information or is this a guess?

Based on the leaked "heretic" BRB rules lining up with the rumored 8th Ed BRB, as well as GW's history of codex releases. Example: the Grey Knight 5th Ed codex was released in 5th with unique rules that were standard for 6th Ed. We saw the same thing with dataslate releases in 6th that were formated for 7th. The recent Necron and Harliquin codexes seem to be slanted away from 7th, indicating an upcoming 8th Ed BRB release, which might coincide with the 9th Ed WHFB release rumored to bring Fantasy more in-line with 40k, which again matches up with the leaked "heretic" BRB.

Which is to say, I'm just paying attention.

SJ

Seriously, less than a year after 7th, if they're releasing 8th they're really gonna shoot themselves in the foot.

How have Necrons and Harlies slanted away from 7th? And what's the Heretic rulebook?

A bunch of poorly wirtten fan rules who never made any sense basically, even when compared to GWs worst fails it looked bad.

And I've never seen anyone except jeffersonian000 saying any "rumors" on 8th edition. the heretic was a supposed "leaked" 7th edition rulebook.
And nothing in necrons and harlies shows a drift away from 7th. just a drift from sanity and reasonable balance (in decurion formations)


In any case, I am amazed how these topics keep coming up for every other new army, before the actual rules are even known.

We don't know all formations or their rule, we only recently seen the artifacts (and they are AMAZING), and the psyker powers (maybe the best disciple in the game) and we have yet to see the rules for at least 2 units (death jesters and shadowseers), and there are mentions of "trope master", yet we got no referance so far to what IS a trope master, what does it do, and if its even a unit or a designation (and if a designation, what are its effects)

Plus we have JUST seen the warlord traits, and they seem to be insane as well, effecting things that we have seen nothing in the game so far that can influence (changing the roll to end the game?! making a mini-turn after the game ends?! WTF?!)


FFS people, at least wait to have a general clue on a new ruleset before you decide its "the weakest codex evaaaaa"

 BoomWolf wrote:
... and there are mentions of "trope master", yet we got no referance so far to what IS a trope master, what does it do, and if its even a unit or a designation (and if a designation, what are its effects)

If you mean 'Troupe Master', then we do know what he is. He's basically the sergeant of the Harlequin Troupe.

 BoomWolf wrote:
A bunch of poorly wirtten fan rules who never made any sense basically, even when compared to GWs worst fails it looked bad.

And I've never seen anyone except jeffersonian000 saying any "rumors" on 8th edition. the heretic was a supposed "leaked" 7th edition rulebook.
And nothing in necrons and harlies shows a drift away from 7th. just a drift from sanity and reasonable balance (in decurion formations)


In any case, I am amazed how these topics keep coming up for every other new army, before the actual rules are even known.

We don't know all formations or their rule, we only recently seen the artifacts (and they are AMAZING), and the psyker powers (maybe the best disciple in the game) and we have yet to see the rules for at least 2 units (death jesters and shadowseers), and there are mentions of "trope master", yet we got no referance so far to what IS a trope master, what does it do, and if its even a unit or a designation (and if a designation, what are its effects)

Plus we have JUST seen the warlord traits, and they seem to be insane as well, effecting things that we have seen nothing in the game so far that can influence (changing the roll to end the game?! making a mini-turn after the game ends?! WTF?!)


FFS people, at least wait to have a general clue on a new ruleset before you decide its "the weakest codex evaaaaa"

Considering that a T3 2W non-EW squad sergeant has to be the warlord to have a chance to get any of the Harlequin Warlord Traits, meh.

Your opponent has to tell you which one the warlord is, so, shoot it in the face until it dies.

 BoomWolf wrote:
A bunch of poorly wirtten fan rules who never made any sense basically, even when compared to GWs worst fails it looked bad.

And I've never seen anyone except jeffersonian000 saying any "rumors" on 8th edition. the heretic was a supposed "leaked" 7th edition rulebook.
And nothing in necrons and harlies shows a drift away from 7th. just a drift from sanity and reasonable balance (in decurion formations)

So it's like the 'pancake edition' or whatever that was a fan made leak around 5th/6ths release? I thought as much, seriously 7th came out last year, we aren't going to see 8th this year. And I didn't think anything was pointing to a new edition in terms of codex content either, but seeing as I don't own any 7th ed Codexes (Necrons was gonna be the first but if they're overpowered I don't think I want to play them), I wasn't sure.

 BoomWolf wrote:
In any case, I am amazed how these topics keep coming up for every other new army, before the actual rules are even known.

We don't know all formations or their rule, we only recently seen the artifacts (and they are AMAZING), and the psyker powers (maybe the best disciple in the game) and we have yet to see the rules for at least 2 units (death jesters and shadowseers), and there are mentions of "trope master", yet we got no referance so far to what IS a trope master, what does it do, and if its even a unit or a designation (and if a designation, what are its effects)

Plus we have JUST seen the warlord traits, and they seem to be insane as well, effecting things that we have seen nothing in the game so far that can influence (changing the roll to end the game?! making a mini-turn after the game ends?! WTF?!)


FFS people, at least wait to have a general clue on a new ruleset before you decide its "the weakest codex evaaaaa"

Uhm, everything has leaked. Formations, Shadowseers, Deathjesters, etc.

And please elaborate on what's so amazing about the artifacts, or the Warlord traits for that matter.

Warlord traits are super trollish. They are really good. Additionally the artifact that drops ld by 2 is insanely good in combination with the Harlequin powers and telepathy.

Overall this book will be low-medium as a stand alone competitively. Though very, very fun to play. However it'll jump solidly once combined properly with Eldar or Dark Eldar to fill it's holes.