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2015/02/22 20:12:31
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Succubus w/ Armour of Misery , Archite Glaive
Troops
5 x Warriors w/ Blaster
5 x Warrior w/ Blaster
F. Attack
3 Raiders w/ Dark Lance , Nightshields
Razorwing
Razorwing
This is why I think Dark Eldar and Harlequins are the perfect match. I can use the Starweavers for the Kabalite Warriors w/ a Death Jester , then purchase Raiders for the Harlequins in full squads. You don't even have to get anything fancy.
I'd go slightly differently, but very close to same.
Spoiler:
Harlequins:
5 man Troupe x 5 kisses w/ Starweaver DT 5 man Troupe x 5 kisses
8 man Troupe x 8 kisses
Shadowseer w/ML 2 x 2
2 Starweavers FA
Voidweaver :(
DA:
Archon-Armor of Misery, Huskblade, soultrap, Shadow field
Warriors-venom
Warriors venom
Warriors
Razorwing
Razorwing
Scourge x 4 haywire blasters
Scourge x 4 haywire blasters
Raider- Aethersails, night shield
Imperial bunker w/comms relay
Stick the warriors in a bunker w/ comms relay, make sure scourges and Razorwings come on when you need em as well as have the option to take second turn and null deploy. I like the archon instead of the succubus only because of Shadow field. When you assault that nasty beatstick squad, he can tank a challenge and allow your squad to kill the rest in the first round. Second round, spill over AP2 wounds take care of Mr. beatstick.
I kind of feel if your not taking at least 1 Deathjester it's kind of like why not? The Solitaire especially.
If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated.
2015/02/22 21:50:57
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Massaen wrote:Just reroll warlord trait and run+charge
Amazaballs. Have an exalt. With that, I officially can't see the reason in ever running the Cegorach's Revenge formation ever, for any reason.
Not worth the rerolls of a 1 (I've got that detachment right, correct)?
Ignoring the other advantages that Dark Eldar bring...
What do Scourges bring that Warp Spiders don't (or some other elder equivalent).
And Voidraven over the Eldar flyer?
I'm not really up to date with the dynamics of Eldar anymore so some insights from others would be great.
Definitely not worth re-rolls of 1. Unfortunately the bulk of the list is 5++. If my math is correct, that translates to a whopping 8% more saves (or going from a 5++ to a 4.5++). Solitaire benefits pretty well from it, increasing saves by 33% (effectively making him a 2++). All the skimmers/jet bikes increase by 16% the turn they blow mirage launchers, and making them effectively a 3++. Excepting the solitaire, nothing in the formation benefits enough from the re-roll to justify all the extra points wasted. Especially when the points can be used to grab more bodies/vehichles, which is a much better increase in durability.
Between Scourges and WSpiders, I'd take WS's all day. And the Crimson hunter is a better AA than Ravenwing. However. DE beat out CWE in slots and points costs. The Real Space Raiders DE detachment can take 6 FA slots, where CWE can only take 3. So DE can take 2 RW's and 2 units of scourges, where CWE could take 2 Crimson Hunters and 1 WS or vice versa. In addition, RW is cheaper than CH, and while scourges w/haywire are more expensive than WSpiders they can reliably kill high armor targets that WS can't.
But the real deciding factor is points. It is really hard to justify not taking a Wave Serpent or 2, a Farseer or 2, and a WK. They are currently 3 of the best units in the game, and having access to them and not using them is just silly (from a competitive standpoint). But after you do break down and take them, you don't really have points for much else. You could, in theory, just take 2 units of jetbikes as your compulsory troops, but other than being outstanding OS troops they don't add a thing your harlies need. DE get warriors in Venoms. Venoms are awesome, and cheap dakka platforms so the troop tax isn't much of a tax at all. DE can fill their troops slot with a ton of poison shots for the cost of one DA/WS.
DE have all the tools you want/need to compliment the Harlies (Tank hunting/ AA) at a very cheap price point. Comboing expensive CWE units with expensive Harlie units is going to make for a very small army that drops in effectiveness dramatically with each loss.
Succubus w/ Armour of Misery , Archite Glaive
Troops
5 x Warriors w/ Blaster
5 x Warrior w/ Blaster
F. Attack
3 Raiders w/ Dark Lance , Nightshields
Razorwing
Razorwing
This is why I think Dark Eldar and Harlequins are the perfect match. I can use the Starweavers for the Kabalite Warriors w/ a Death Jester , then purchase Raiders for the Harlequins in full squads. You don't even have to get anything fancy.
I'd go slightly differently, but very close to same.
Spoiler:
Harlequins:
5 man Troupe x 5 kisses w/ Starweaver DT 5 man Troupe x 5 kisses
8 man Troupe x 8 kisses
Shadowseer w/ML 2 x 2
2 Starweavers FA
Voidweaver :(
DA:
Archon-Armor of Misery, Huskblade, soultrap, Shadow field
Warriors-venom
Warriors venom
Warriors
Razorwing
Razorwing
Scourge x 4 haywire blasters
Scourge x 4 haywire blasters
Raider- Aethersails, night shield
Imperial bunker w/comms relay
Stick the warriors in a bunker w/ comms relay, make sure scourges and Razorwings come on when you need em as well as have the option to take second turn and null deploy. I like the archon instead of the succubus only because of Shadow field. When you assault that nasty beatstick squad, he can tank a challenge and allow your squad to kill the rest in the first round. Second round, spill over AP2 wounds take care of Mr. beatstick.
I kind of feel if your not taking at least 1 Deathjester it's kind of like why not? The Solitaire especially.
Solitaire I'm not in anyway sold on. As much as I love my Avatar and Wraith Lords, they've broken me of ever depending on one model units w/mediocre survivability. The only reason the WK is viable is it's uber toughness. Solitaire is just in the right spot where he's to expensive to reliably get his points back, and to flimsy to be able to assault a points appropriate target. I might proxy him a few times to see if his speed is enough to warrant his inclusion, but it'll take a lot of convincing for me to become a believer.
DJ- Not sold on him. Being as I run CWE main atm, and I'm a long way away from running Harle/DE he's going to get an audition in the "Cast of Players" for a while as I make the transition. We'll see if he earns a spot or not.
It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire
2015/02/22 22:09:32
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Mine is the other way I play Dark Eldar, and am hoping to develope a "Wychcentric" army list with large blocks of Wyches and fast moving Harlequins using Shadowseers to give the Wyches the needed durability with the new Psychic Powers table.
Isn't one of the abilities of the Detachment that D3 units gain Infiltrate , Deep Strike or Scout or am I craaazy.
If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated.
2015/02/22 23:16:53
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Hollismason wrote: Mine is the other way I play Dark Eldar, and am hoping to develope a "Wychcentric" army list with large blocks of Wyches and fast moving Harlequins using Shadowseers to give the Wyches the needed durability with the new Psychic Powers table.
Isn't one of the abilities of the Detachment that D3 units gain Infiltrate , Deep Strike or Scout or am I craaazy.
Warlord trait. Light I think.
Interesting tac with the wyches. Planning the guardian blob + Shadowseers and trying to figure out what to do to prevent a crippling alpha strike. I imagine you'll face the same delima.
It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire
2015/02/22 23:22:16
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Hypothetically looking at a DE force into which to plug some Harlies (I have neither at the moment, and will probably be using between 300 and 500 points on Harlies), Is the following remotely decent. I don't ever plan on going near a tourney, so it doesn't need to be world-beating, I just have very little clue about how DE work.
Any good? I want something that could just get in their face quickly, throw out some firepower while mounted up and just play like DE should, fast, sleek and deadly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/22 23:23:10
2015/02/23 00:33:58
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Tell me what you think about this list
Corsair combined arms detachment
Corsair prince with shadowfield Harlequin's kiss, voidblade, and jetpack 175 points
Corsair squads x5, fusion gun, shuriken cannon, in a dedicated falcon transport scatter laser and shuriken cannon holofields 245 points
Wasp assault walkers with twin bright lances 170
Night wing interceptor x2 290
Harlequin masque troupe leader with power sword, 3x kiss, 1x embrace 130
Troupe 2 troupe leader neuro disruptor, 1x neuro disruptor, 3x fusion pistol 160
Troupe 3 troupe master Harlequin's caress, 1x caress 111
2x star weavers 140
1x void weaver 75
Solitaire 145
2x death jesters 120
Shadowseer ml2 85
The corsairs are there for the hard hitting ranged support and decent medium ranged volume of fire, the 2 night wing interceptors will take on anything in the sky. The corsair prince is there to tank wounds for the powersword troupe and shadowseer if something actually gets to shoot at them as they run upfield. The shooty Harlequin squad is there to be shot at due to being loaded with so many really dangerous, short ranged weapons. The death jesters dance around together claiming objectives and killing stuff what needs some killing put on it. 1846 points
Edit for autocorrect and added total point value.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/23 00:54:00
Hypothetically looking at a DE force into which to plug some Harlies (I have neither at the moment, and will probably be using between 300 and 500 points on Harlies), Is the following remotely decent. I don't ever plan on going near a tourney, so it doesn't need to be world-beating, I just have very little clue about how DE work.
Any good? I want something that could just get in their face quickly, throw out some firepower while mounted up and just play like DE should, fast, sleek and deadly.
Firstly, what points level are you looking to play? Cause that load out plus roughly 500 in Harlequins is ~1500. Secondly, I'll ask the same question to you I asked of Hollismason earlier: what are the Incubi supposed to be doing? They are an expensive, low AP assault unit. You are allying in a lot of expensive, low AP assault. I'd drop them, because they don't' do anything that their points in harlequins wouldn't do better. Other than that looks alright. I wouldn't add wyches before scourges and razorwings though. Scourges and RW's are the real reason you're allying DE, they cover the 2 biggest weaknesses of the Harlies (AA, AT).
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Spoiler:
Tell me what you think about this list
Corsair combined arms detachment
Corsair prince with shadowfield Harlequin's kiss, voidblade, and jetpack 175 points
Corsair squads x5, fusion gun, shuriken cannon, in a dedicated falcon transport scatter laser and shuriken cannon holofields 245 points
Wasp assault walkers with twin bright lances 170
Night wing interceptor x2 290
Harlequin masque troupe leader with power sword, 3x kiss, 1x embrace 130
Troupe 2 troupe leader neuro disruptor, 1x neuro disruptor, 3x fusion pistol 160
Troupe 3 troupe master Harlequin's caress, 1x caress 111
2x star weavers 140
1x void weaver 75
Solitaire 145
2x death jesters 120
Shadowseer ml2 85
The corsairs are there for the hard hitting ranged support and decent medium ranged volume of fire, the 2 night wing interceptors will take on anything in the sky. The corsair prince is there to tank wounds for the powersword troupe and shadowseer if something actually gets to shoot at them as they run upfield. The shooty Harlequin squad is there to be shot at due to being loaded with so many really dangerous, short ranged weapons. The death jesters dance around together claiming objectives and killing stuff what needs some killing put on it. 1846 points
Edit for autocorrect and added total point value.
Not super familiar with corsairs, but nightwings are on target. Wasps- meh. I like WW's because of battle focus, w/out I don't know. Point for point I'd def take Hornets instead (if it's an option).
The harliquins I'm more familiar with. Remove the caresses for kisses. You're paying 60% more for nearly identical output. Trading caresses for kisses gets you mask on the Shadowseer.....and I really can't see a reason to ever leave mask on the table. Same w/the guns. Harliquins are waaaaay to expensive to use them as bait. Losing the guns is enough to buy another starweaver, and starweavers are as good or better than venoms. Take that spare venom with the DJ's inside and make a full fledged Dakka boat.
It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire
2015/02/23 03:05:34
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Between Scourges and WSpiders, I'd take WS's all day. And the Crimson hunter is a better AA than Ravenwing. However. DE beat out CWE in slots and points costs. The Real Space Raiders DE detachment can take 6 FA slots, where CWE can only take 3. So DE can take 2 RW's and 2 units of scourges, where CWE could take 2 Crimson Hunters and 1 WS or vice versa. In addition, RW is cheaper than CH, and while scourges w/haywire are more expensive than WSpiders they can reliably kill high armor targets that WS can't.
Haywire the best bet for Scourges? Not one of the other guns? Heat Lances? Blasters (too short a range?)? They double up against monstrous creatures then (although you probably don't need them in that case).
I've not played 6th or 7th, so I'm not familiar with the vehicle damage charts. Is haywire better than melta or mini bright lances in general?
'Anyone can win, but it takes a good man to lose.'
-Louis Guzman
2015/02/23 03:12:55
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
DE generally have enough Poison for MC so Blasters are an eh option.
Heat Lance have a use. It's just the DE Codex lacks good AT (the trusty Dark Glance doesn't seem to get the job done). Scourge give easy access to stripping hull points.
Volume of high Strength shots are usually the best bet against Vehicles, since not many armies (ASAIK) have access to lots of Haywire. After that, Haywire is best - ever since the change to Hull Points for Vehicles.
YMDC = nightmare
2015/02/23 03:44:35
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Between Scourges and WSpiders, I'd take WS's all day. And the Crimson hunter is a better AA than Ravenwing. However. DE beat out CWE in slots and points costs. The Real Space Raiders DE detachment can take 6 FA slots, where CWE can only take 3. So DE can take 2 RW's and 2 units of scourges, where CWE could take 2 Crimson Hunters and 1 WS or vice versa. In addition, RW is cheaper than CH, and while scourges w/haywire are more expensive than WSpiders they can reliably kill high armor targets that WS can't.
Haywire the best bet for Scourges? Not one of the other guns? Heat Lances? Blasters (too short a range?)? They double up against monstrous creatures then (although you probably don't need them in that case).
I've not played 6th or 7th, so I'm not familiar with the vehicle damage charts. Is haywire better than melta or mini bright lances in general?
I'd go haywire on Scourges. As long as you hit it's a virtually guaranteed HP. 24" range helps you keep them away from attention, and AP 4 isn't terrible. Your entire purpose with Scourges in this particular scenario is dealing with 1 or maybe 2 AV 13+ vehicles. Blasters have a 50% chance to strip a HP or better against AV 12+. Heat Lance is 50% against AV 13, and worse against AV 14. Haywire gives you the most consistent AT results vs high AV, which is one of the Harlies 2 biggest weaknesses. Blasters and Heat lances have the ability to dakka 2+ armor targets, but that's not an issue Harlies are going to have. Each starweaver has 2 Shuriken Cannons on it, so looking at 18 S6 psuedo rending shots a turn not including the Voidweaver you're forced to take ( ). And of course, if it's on the ground your troupes can take care of it even easier.
It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire
2015/02/23 04:24:27
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Lurker wrote: I'm still interested in some more opinions on one of my first questions...
Is it feasible to take large groups of 10 on foot with the help of a Shadowseer?
I don't know, maybe? It strikes me that they'll have the same problem that ground-based Tyranid MCs do - not mobile enough for a fearsome melee unit. It tends to simplify the opponent's target priority, as they can just shoot down whatever is getting closest. If you can deep strike them in, I could definitely see a foot troop working, but there are only a few ways to do that as Harlequins, and none of them are reliable (i.e. the Light warlord traits and Gate of Infiniti from a Sanctic Shadowseer). An Archon with a WWP would probably be the best choice if you're going this route.
Rather irritatingly, the one thing they are lacking that would really make this work is a reliable, in-codex way to be certain that the unit can either Infiltrate or Deep Strike (or even Scout at a push). That would get them to combat having taken just that bit less firepower, but as said, the only options are a Warlord Trait or a Power, neither of which can be banked upon.
If I were running full Troupes, I'd do it Unbound or take a Realspace Raiders detachment and throw them all in Raiders, 3x10 in a Raider with a Shadowseer or Death Jester would ensure at least something gets through, once you add in a Solitaire running intereference or some Jetbikes/Voidweavers adding fire support. On foot, though, I think they'd work as a one-trick unit as allies, but not neccessarily on their own.
The old all harlequin army of 5th was typically 3 ten man units relying on the shadowseer to keep them from being targeted until the enemy move into charge range, which is even easier with the fleet+charge rule you can get using formations. You used to use troops holding objectives to make the enemy come to the midfield, but you can basically do that with harlies now too, since they can hold objectives. The DJ improves your ability to draw the enemy closer too. the only real concern is failing a psyker roll and opening your harlies up to fire from across the board, which would go bad fast. I'm not sure a transport is needed for the harlies here - a weak transport can always be targeted and is,likely to wipe half your squad in an explosion, while harlies on foot are immune to fire for rounds, if you are careful.
What might be needed is anti-tank, and tougher objective holders. Still, I have not played my harlies since 5th, so who knows what else I might be missing.
2015/02/23 09:00:57
Subject: Re:Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
The formations arent quite what I want at all.... So screw them im going unbound.
Troupe 1:
1 extra members
Embrace X 2
Kiss X 4
Haywire = 145
Troupe 2
Embrace X 2
Kiss X 3
Haywire = 125
Troupe 3
Embrace X 2
Kiss X 3
Haywire = 125
Death Jester
Haywire = 65
ShadowSeer
Level 2
Haywire
Mask of Secrets = 105
Solitaire
Haywire
Cegorachs Rose = 165
Skyweaver Squad 1
Haywire Cannons
Glaives = 130
Skyweaver Squad 2
Haywire Cannons
Glaives = 130
Starweaver X3
Void Reaver X 1
Prismatic Cannon = 290
Total = 1215
The plan is to have the 3 troupes (the 2 with 5 members have the characters) load up and the army zoom forward in the vein hope of making it into combat.
Should I mix up the gear a bit?
If you were to add 300 points of allies to this list what would you add?
2015/02/23 10:29:29
Subject: Re:Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
The formations arent quite what I want at all.... So screw them im going unbound.
Troupe 1:
1 extra members
Embrace X 2
Kiss X 4
Haywire = 145
Troupe 2
Embrace X 2
Kiss X 3
Haywire = 125
Troupe 3
Embrace X 2
Kiss X 3
Haywire = 125
Death Jester
Haywire = 65
ShadowSeer
Level 2
Haywire
Mask of Secrets = 105
Solitaire
Haywire
Cegorachs Rose = 165
Skyweaver Squad 1
Haywire Cannons
Glaives = 130
Skyweaver Squad 2
Haywire Cannons
Glaives = 130
Starweaver X3
Void Reaver X 1
Prismatic Cannon = 290
Total = 1215
The plan is to have the 3 troupes (the 2 with 5 members have the characters) load up and the army zoom forward in the vein hope of making it into combat.
Should I mix up the gear a bit?
If you were to add 300 points of allies to this list what would you add?
Isn't that just the Masque detachment minus the voidweaver? I would just take the void weaver and get the run charge bonus.
2015/02/23 11:02:03
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Hypothetically looking at a DE force into which to plug some Harlies (I have neither at the moment, and will probably be using between 300 and 500 points on Harlies), Is the following remotely decent. I don't ever plan on going near a tourney, so it doesn't need to be world-beating, I just have very little clue about how DE work.
Any good? I want something that could just get in their face quickly, throw out some firepower while mounted up and just play like DE should, fast, sleek and deadly.
Firstly, what points level are you looking to play? Cause that load out plus roughly 500 in Harlequins is ~1500. Secondly, I'll ask the same question to you I asked of Hollismason earlier: what are the Incubi supposed to be doing? They are an expensive, low AP assault unit. You are allying in a lot of expensive, low AP assault. I'd drop them, because they don't' do anything that their points in harlequins wouldn't do better. Other than that looks alright. I wouldn't add wyches before scourges and razorwings though. Scourges and RW's are the real reason you're allying DE, they cover the 2 biggest weaknesses of the Harlies (AA, AT).
Aye, 1500 is about right.
The Incubi are there to act as a bodyguard/retinue for the Archon; I'm under no delusions about them being the best CC unit in the game, but they are thematic and the models are awesome and seem decent enough. The Wyches are there partly for fluff and partly to up my skimmer count, while also providing a couple of small units that can back up the Harlies or Incubi in Assault or tie someone up a bit. I am open to adding another Scourge squad (4 Haywire?). No idea what Razorwings actually do, but if they are the answer to the AA then I'm not reall fussed, I don't see flyers at all.
EDIT: Quote is messed up, can't get it to work
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/02/23 11:04:14
2015/02/23 15:11:45
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
On the first turn, assuming long-edges, and an opponent that either is a gunline or for some other reason doesn't want to come to you, do you flat out with all your vehicles straight into their deployment zone? For the purpose of this exercise, let's assume that you have a Doomweaver and three Starweavers, and possibly some bikes or something similarly fast (like Venoms or Wave Serpents) that can keep up.
The reason I ask is that it seems like the army is going to crumble if you don't get into combat fast, but of course going flat out means forfeiting all your turn one shooting. In addition, the Voidweaver in particular really benefits a lot from being right in the middle of your opponents' army (so you can use that aft cannon), and if we are going to be forced to use it we might as well make the most of it. The big downside is that this may open you up to medium range weapons that your opponent might not otherwise be able to fire on the first turn.
2015/02/23 15:54:46
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Incubi are a good add for Harlequins as they give the army something it doesn't have which is a armour 3+ and a standard AP2 , remember they'll benefit from the Hit and Run rule , plus they get Furious Charge in turn 3 so being able to hit and run with ST5 AP2 weapon , with a Klaivex getting Rampage is why I say they and Grotesques are the best compliments.
Large Wych Squads may work as well with Shadowseers, being able to get the 2d6 x 2 Psychic Power , and possibly gaining the Shrouded + Stealth is really good.
Does anyone know what the actual detachment rules are, I kept reading hte D3 get X special rules is that correct?
Because if 1 of the special rules is infiltrate, take a squad of Mandrakes stick a Death Jester with Infiltrate in there with them and enjoy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/23 15:56:00
If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated.
2015/02/23 15:56:07
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Hypothetically looking at a DE force into which to plug some Harlies (I have neither at the moment, and will probably be using between 300 and 500 points on Harlies), Is the following remotely decent. I don't ever plan on going near a tourney, so it doesn't need to be world-beating, I just have very little clue about how DE work.
Any good? I want something that could just get in their face quickly, throw out some firepower while mounted up and just play like DE should, fast, sleek and deadly.
Firstly, what points level are you looking to play? Cause that load out plus roughly 500 in Harlequins is ~1500. Secondly, I'll ask the same question to you I asked of Hollismason earlier: what are the Incubi supposed to be doing? They are an expensive, low AP assault unit. You are allying in a lot of expensive, low AP assault. I'd drop them, because they don't' do anything that their points in harlequins wouldn't do better. Other than that looks alright. I wouldn't add wyches before scourges and razorwings though. Scourges and RW's are the real reason you're allying DE, they cover the 2 biggest weaknesses of the Harlies (AA, AT).
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Spoiler:
Tell me what you think about this list
Corsair combined arms detachment
Corsair prince with shadowfield Harlequin's kiss, voidblade, and jetpack 175 points
Corsair squads x5, fusion gun, shuriken cannon, in a dedicated falcon transport scatter laser and shuriken cannon holofields 245 points
Wasp assault walkers with twin bright lances 170
Night wing interceptor x2 290
Harlequin masque troupe leader with power sword, 3x kiss, 1x embrace 130
Troupe 2 troupe leader neuro disruptor, 1x neuro disruptor, 3x fusion pistol 160
Troupe 3 troupe master Harlequin's caress, 1x caress 111
2x star weavers 140
1x void weaver 75
Solitaire 145
2x death jesters 120
Shadowseer ml2 85
The corsairs are there for the hard hitting ranged support and decent medium ranged volume of fire, the 2 night wing interceptors will take on anything in the sky. The corsair prince is there to tank wounds for the powersword troupe and shadowseer if something actually gets to shoot at them as they run upfield. The shooty Harlequin squad is there to be shot at due to being loaded with so many really dangerous, short ranged weapons. The death jesters dance around together claiming objectives and killing stuff what needs some killing put on it. 1846 points
Edit for autocorrect and added total point value.
Not super familiar with corsairs, but nightwings are on target. Wasps- meh. I like WW's because of battle focus, w/out I don't know. Point for point I'd def take Hornets instead (if it's an option).
The harliquins I'm more familiar with. Remove the caresses for kisses. You're paying 60% more for nearly identical output. Trading caresses for kisses gets you mask on the Shadowseer.....and I really can't see a reason to ever leave mask on the table. Same w/the guns. Harliquins are waaaaay to expensive to use them as bait. Losing the guns is enough to buy another starweaver, and starweavers are as good or better than venoms. Take that spare venom with the DJ's inside and make a full fledged Dakka boat.
The wasps have jetpack, so they actually do jsj better than war walkers, they are also troops so they get objective secured. In my group, we run the corsairs as the same stats as their eldar equivalent. My meta also includes grey knights, spacemarine with land raiders and terminators, riptides, and chaos walker spam. I need those caresses to give me the possibility of more than one wound/glance if I get stuck in. While I understand the use of percentages when determining damage output etc. the fact of the matter is the caress is only 3 points more than a kiss, and has the potential to do more over the course of the game. The snooty unit in a transport helps me deal with shunting/ deep striking 2+ saves and the occasional land raider crusader that get too close.
Right now, having about a 2,000pt CWE warhost (Ulthwé), I'm going to start by adding two Harlequin formations to it - the formation with the three heroes and the troupe formation where a DJ and SSE join it. I love the other bits but I'm going to start small.
General tactics are to move a 20 strong guardian blob with Fraser in up with the troupe which will confer the formation's crusader rule over. The heroes formation, having the infiltrate rule as well as stealth + shrouded, will mostly outflank, although I'd infiltrate that DJ into cover.
Both SSs upgraded to ML2. Might have one of the other smaller guardian units at the rear with an Eldar missile launcher to pin anything affected by any leadership-reducing shenanigans.
In terms of troupe loud out, a box of 6 with 2x caresses (one on the master who also has a neuro disruptor) and the rest kisses. Tempted by making one an embrace...
Just something to remember, if you're using a Shadowseer in a unit and Veil of Tears goes off then you don't have to win combat on your opponents turn. That power alone takes a large amount of potential damage off of you.
Also Hit-n-Run large Wych squads w/Veil of Tears looks amazing!
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2015/02/23 19:40:14
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
It's a bit of a shame about the SSs miststave. I don't quite understand where the concussive USR helps Harlequins with their high initiative. Unless it's fighting an even higher initiative, tough unit, like a daemon?
Yeah the army adds just enough and is just low enough in point cost for the Shadowseers to make large Wych Squads semi viable, but terrible on the very first turn so have to make use of cover.
It also means that weapons like Wyverns and Thunderfire cannons can't targe them. It also means that it's possible for them to be immune to overwatch shots if they roll less that a 4 to 5.
15 Wyches w/ 3 Hydra Gauntlets
Shadowseer w/ Haywire Grenades
200 points on the nose. 215 if you include the Squad upgrade to have Haywire grenades.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/23 19:52:14
If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated.
2015/02/23 19:59:23
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Bhazakhain wrote: It's a bit of a shame about the SSs miststave. I don't quite understand where the concussive USR helps Harlequins with their high initiative. Unless it's fighting an even higher initiative, tough unit, like a daemon?
It does seem pretty niche, but it works with Blind pretty well. Shards of Light, Swooping Hawks with Sunrifle Exarch and Wraithknight shield all come to mind, but in all of these cases, you would need to concuss them and then hit and run out before using the ability (except for the WK, but that is something that can't really be counted on anyway).
The big use for it would seem to be for sweeping advances.
2015/02/23 22:08:44
Subject: Re:Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Swastakowey wrote:My List so far: Harlequin Standalone Force
The formations arent quite what I want at all.... So screw them im going unbound.
Spoiler:
Troupe 1:
1 extra members
Embrace X 2
Kiss X 4
Haywire = 145
Troupe 2
Embrace X 2
Kiss X 3
Haywire = 125
Troupe 3
Embrace X 2
Kiss X 3
Haywire = 125
Death Jester
Haywire = 65
ShadowSeer
Level 2
Haywire
Mask of Secrets = 105
Solitaire
Haywire
Cegorachs Rose = 165
Skyweaver Squad 1
Haywire Cannons
Glaives = 130
Skyweaver Squad 2
Haywire Cannons
Glaives = 130
Starweaver X3
Void Reaver X 1
Prismatic Cannon = 290
Total = 1215
The plan is to have the 3 troupes (the 2 with 5 members have the characters) load up and the army zoom forward in the vein hope of making it into combat.
Should I mix up the gear a bit?
If you were to add 300 points of allies to this list what would you add?
Assuming you mean "Voidweaver" and not Void reaver, you are running the detachment from the codex- enjoy run/charge bonuses! Though by my count, 3 starweavers + Voidweaver = 275 even with the cannon. If you didn't mean voidweaver, then I'd very much advise you to just take one. 80 points for run/charge is a big fat yes.
If you must take skyweavers (i'd drop them and take 2 Starweavers as FA slot), run haywire only. The glaives would have been amazing as a trade for bolas, or even 5ppm, but 10 with no grenades.... Besides, the bolas aren't super terrible. Think of them as a way to soften an enemy if/when you need to charge. Taking out 3-4 guys in cover makes it more likely you actually get to swing at In1.
Everything else looks to be good. 300 points is a pretty slim budget. CWE: Maybe an autarch and a DAVU WS. Allows you to null deploy (solitaire hiding behind BLOS) and come in reliably. At 300 for DE: Archon, Razorwing, naked warriors. Best advice would be drop at least one squad of skyweavers and open another 130 for allies, preferably both for the full 260.
Paradigm wrote:
Aye, 1500 is about right.
The Incubi are there to act as a bodyguard/retinue for the Archon; I'm under no delusions about them being the best CC unit in the game, but they are thematic and the models are awesome and seem decent enough. The Wyches are there partly for fluff and partly to up my skimmer count, while also providing a couple of small units that can back up the Harlies or Incubi in Assault or tie someone up a bit. I am open to adding another Scourge squad (4 Haywire?). No idea what Razorwings actually do, but if they are the answer to the AA then I'm not reall fussed, I don't see flyers at all.
Yep, RW's are AA. If it's not an issue in your meta, then don't sweat it. If it becomes an issue (Tyranids did just take the LVO), you know what you're buying next. Didn't mean to imply not to take wyches, I think they compliment Harlies well. Just before I put points in them, I'd definitely make sure to pick up some scourges (yep, haywire). You need an answer for at least on high AV target. You won't likely see more than that at 1500, but getting beaten b/c somebody brought a rock and you forgot your paper is annoying. If you decide to push a squad of wyches for scourges, remember that your archon gets to take a venom as a DT too. Nothing says he has to ever use it
Hulksmash wrote:Just something to remember, if you're using a Shadowseer in a unit and Veil of Tears goes off then you don't have to win combat on your opponents turn. That power alone takes a large amount of potential damage off of you.
Also Hit-n-Run large Wych squads w/Veil of Tears looks amazing!
Veil + low points horde unit is definitely going to be a thing. Guardians or wyches, either way the power increases exponentially as the targets' durability decreases. As far as finishing combat early, depends on positioning (there's a joke there somewhere...). If your opponent castles up (will be interesting to see how veil works with overwatch, esp. tau overwatch) it won't matter. Harlies biggest threat is going to be MSU gun lines, but those are thankfully becoming rare.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: The wasps have jetpack, so they actually do jsj better than war walkers, they are also troops so they get objective secured. In my group, we run the corsairs as the same stats as their eldar equivalent. My meta also includes grey knights, spacemarine with land raiders and terminators, riptides, and chaos walker spam. I need those caresses to give me the possibility of more than one wound/glance if I get stuck in. While I understand the use of percentages when determining damage output etc. the fact of the matter is the caress is only 3 points more than a kiss, and has the potential to do more over the course of the game. The snooty unit in a transport helps me deal with shunting/ deep striking 2+ saves and the occasional land raider crusader that get too close.
If you've got the points left over and nothing else to spend it on, then a single unit with caresses isn't going to kill you. I obviously don't have the experience/knowledge base to assist on the corsair side of things, but I'd still advocate Hornets since you are obviously ok w/FW. 80 points for 2 pulse lasers is idiotic. If Falcon's could take 2, they'd be everywhere. Hornets get to do so for a fraction of the cost, and only marginal decrease in durability + the ability to rear armor vehicles at will. Wasps sound neat, and as a troop w/ jsj, a solid choice. My only real advice is that depending on rends to take out vehicles can leave you in an exposed position if your dice decide to take a nap. I'd rather let the Harlies do what they're good at (running down units in CC) and have a dedicated AT option.
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2015/02/23 22:10:52
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
My intended allies at this stage are CWE- a jetseer, 3 wind riders and a hemlock fighter. Cheap mobile scoring combined with more LD debuff and psychic dice
). And of course, if it's on the ground your troupes can take care of it even easier.
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