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 Ghaz wrote:

 Jangus wrote:
Quick query about the Voidweaver, and the fire arc of the front shuriken cannon. Just Miniwargaming, in their Harlequin review, brought up a point that by flying backwards you can use the turret mounted haywire/ prismatic + make the most of the fairly limited fire arc of the aft mounted weapon.

So, just wondering what the actual firing arc of the front shuriken cannon was, and as such the validity of flying backwards.

YMDC discussion on the Voidweaver's firing arc.

Eugh, apologies.

That argument seemed to travel in circles and come to no conclusion...

Played my first test game against marines/AM the other day. Really struggling to find a way for my troupes to survive overwatch and it's super frustrating. Even a small unit stands a good chance of knocking off 1-3 harlies before they even make it in. I know this can be somewhat mitigated with pinning but it's really a struggle sometimes.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should mitigate this? Should I just avoid enemy shooting units altogether with my troupes and use them to engage everything else? I just feel like it's important to get them in combat asap to avoid out of cover shooting.

Veshnakar wrote:
Played my first test game against marines/AM the other day. Really struggling to find a way for my troupes to survive overwatch and it's super frustrating. Even a small unit stands a good chance of knocking off 1-3 harlies before they even make it in. I know this can be somewhat mitigated with pinning but it's really a struggle sometimes.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should mitigate this? Should I just avoid enemy shooting units altogether with my troupes and use them to engage everything else? I just feel like it's important to get them in combat asap to avoid out of cover shooting.

Were you running pure harlies? as i think this is one of the major downsides of pure harlies, you have almost nothing that can be used as units to tie up or eat overwatches. personally for cheapness, id consider the DE, you could quite easily get some beast packs that for 20-30 points consist of just khamera, they can move 12 inches and through cover, are small enough in points that if shot at the enemy is ignoring your nasty quins and will quite easily eat overwatch and prep some combats for you. You have the issue that all your units if you run pure harlies, are of similar value, similar toughness and therefore you cant just avoid shooty units and leave them for something else... cos you have nothing else Pinning would work, but not exactly reliable.

Solar Shock wrote:


Were you running pure harlies? as i think this is one of the major downsides of pure harlies, you have almost nothing that can be used as units to tie up or eat overwatches. personally for cheapness, id consider the DE, you could quite easily get some beast packs that for 20-30 points consist of just khamera, they can move 12 inches and through cover, are small enough in points that if shot at the enemy is ignoring your nasty quins and will quite easily eat overwatch and prep some combats for you. You have the issue that all your units if you run pure harlies, are of similar value, similar toughness and therefore you cant just avoid shooty units and leave them for something else... cos you have nothing else Pinning would work, but not exactly reliable.

Yeah it was pure harlies for flavor. I have been warming up to the idea of some dark eldar allies. The idea of some "chaff" to absorb overwatch is a good one, thanks for that. And yeah I was hesitant to even mention pinning as I feel like it's way too unreliable. The hallucination grens from the shadowseer helps some but still hardly reliable.

Veshnakar wrote:
Played my first test game against marines/AM the other day. Really struggling to find a way for my troupes to survive overwatch and it's super frustrating. Even a small unit stands a good chance of knocking off 1-3 harlies before they even make it in. I know this can be somewhat mitigated with pinning but it's really a struggle sometimes.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should mitigate this? Should I just avoid enemy shooting units altogether with my troupes and use them to engage everything else? I just feel like it's important to get them in combat asap to avoid out of cover shooting.

Without the Dex in North America I have not had a good chance to dig in to this army. Really hoping it drops this weekend and we can get some more activity on this thread.

Outside of cheap allies like what was mentioned before my post Fog of Shadows is a cool power to mitigate overwatch though what if you don't roll it?

Hope is not a good battlefield strategy.

 luke1705 wrote:
Ok so the more I read through this codex the more I think, "the shadow seer has some amazing versatility". If there was a bound way to field 2/3 of him (without 500 or more points of extra stuff) I would be all up in that business so fast.

What do you guys think? If you were building a battle forged list around 3 ML2 Shadowseers, how would you take advantage of them? I feel like it would probably have to be Eldar, but to what end? I feel like a wraithknight or two would be good, but I'm not familiar enough with Eldar to know how to put a list with good synergy together

I'm in the same boat with shadowseers: they're amazing and I'd gladly take 7 if it didn't mean taking so much chaff. Obviously, taking the Detachment is the way to go to max out your shadowseers with the least investment, though "least" is relative.

3 troupes w/kisses x 3 starweavers 1 voidweaver 3 ML 2 shadowseers w/ mask = ~900 pts. You could drop all the kisses and almost pay for another shadowseer, but at that point the troupes really are just expensive garbage.

This is one of the reasons the thread keeps comming back to DE as the best allies. you can reasonably get a good amount of models for 900 points of DE, and those models will help out your lack of AA/AT. Not helping those of us who want to make some beast mode 2 Jetseer/3Shaowseer deathstar. As I don't have the models/codex yet (no point in getting the former w/out the latter), I've been theory crafting a lot and come to the conclusion that Eldar allies for harlies won't look a thing like regular CWE.

WS's and WK's are way too expensive to take with a loadout like the one above. With only 900pts, you're going to get 2 WS and a WK and 2 farseers. There's little/no synergy there though, you're just shoe horning in WS and WKs. No room to address AA, and really not helping out the high AV AT problem either.

What I've been kicking around is 2 guardian blobs w/lances shielding DRs. Shadowseers in each squad give you a virtually untouchable gunline, twinlinked BL's take out high armor, DR's take on AA and AT both. Fill the rest of your points with Jetbikes to go around grabbing maelstrom points, and just march forward with the blobs keeping the Harlies close to counter assault. Fearless in both guardian squads (mask and shard) allows them to meat shield for the DRs, DRs are surrounded so that no one gets close enough to see them through veil. Used to run a guardian blob with vect, and it was surprisingly good. I think the synergy between shadowseers and large cheap foot units could make up for the expensive harlies riding around in their pretty coffins, and DR's are good anti-meta HS/Jink ignoring shooting that benefit from the shadowseers greatly.

Alt. run one large 12 man Harlie squad w/ 2-3 shadowseers and 2 jetseers. Straightforward deathstar.

 Skerr wrote:

Veshnakar wrote:
Played my first test game against marines/AM the other day. Really struggling to find a way for my troupes to survive overwatch and it's super frustrating. Even a small unit stands a good chance of knocking off 1-3 harlies before they even make it in. I know this can be somewhat mitigated with pinning but it's really a struggle sometimes.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should mitigate this? Should I just avoid enemy shooting units altogether with my troupes and use them to engage everything else? I just feel like it's important to get them in combat asap to avoid out of cover shooting.

Without the Dex in North America I have not had a good chance to dig in to this army. Really hoping it drops this weekend and we can get some more activity on this thread.

Outside of cheap allies like what was mentioned before my post Fog of Shadows is a cool power to mitigate overwatch though what if you don't roll it?

Hope is not a good battlefield strategy.

According to the local GW manager, the Codex will be available this coming weekend, so a matter of days really.

IIRC, Fog of Shadows doesn't do a thing about overwatch, sadly, as it just makes the unit snap shoot. Which it was going to do anyway. Definitely a nice debuff for big non-psychic deathstars, like Knights and Leman Russ squadrons (i.e. anything that relies heavily on blasts to do its damage).

Yeah that's correct. It does, however, also make the target unit only hit on 6's in close combat. This is why my instinct is "I would like to field as many Shadowseers as my opponent has units". Sadly it's not the primaris. That being said, the primaris is of course crazy good as well

 luke1705 wrote:
Yeah that's correct. It does, however, also make the target unit only hit on 6's in close combat. This is why my instinct is "I would like to field as many Shadowseers as my opponent has units". Sadly it's not the primaris. That being said, the primaris is of course crazy good as well

Really, this ability all by itself is enough to counter any death-star type unit. One of the reasons I really want to run a bunch of Shadowseers w/Farseers: bait them into denying something else and neuter their death star, or force them to allow everything else to go through and save for the deny. Also becomes clutch against Flyrant spam, as every time it goes off successfully your opponent loses 1/3 - 1/5 of their offensive fire power for a turn. It's one of the reasons I really like burying psychers in a crappy low point squad like guardians. All of the sudden this big blob of fearless 8 pt models is punching way higher than it's weight, forcing your opponent to dedicate a lot of time and points trying to clear a unit they'd ignore otherwise.

Yes and no. For one, good luck getting any reasonable opponent to forget to try and deny that one. Secondly, many of these deathstars will have ML3 and/or ML4 psykers. That means that they're denying you on a 4+ since you're ML2, and that if you don't have more dice than them, you may very well not get the power off even if you throw all of your dice at it. And if you do, that means that you get to do that trick twice max. Since you only have two wounds (though 1/3 of the time you won't suffer a wound) and the power has to be rolled for, so not every Shadowseer will get it

try to use fear and -ld to pin people before you charge. Pin, fall back off table... try to take down as many units of game before they can do anything.

 luke1705 wrote:
Yes and no. For one, good luck getting any reasonable opponent to forget to try and deny that one. Secondly, many of these deathstars will have ML3 and/or ML4 psykers. That means that they're denying you on a 4+ since you're ML2, and that if you don't have more dice than them, you may very well not get the power off even if you throw all of your dice at it. And if you do, that means that you get to do that trick twice max. Since you only have two wounds (though 1/3 of the time you won't suffer a wound) and the power has to be rolled for, so not every Shadowseer will get it

Depends on how you're running the seers. If you're running 1/2 ML2 Shadowseers, yes that's fairly accurate. I'm considering running 2/3 with 2 farseers atm, and so that's the scenario I was describing (I mentioned above wanting to run a psychic death-star, but forgot to mention it here). In that scenario, there are a lot of psychic powers going around that your opponent will have to consider. Invis/Terrify/Dom/Shriek/Mirror of Minds etc. So, front load things like Invis/Terrify/Shriek and your opponent has to decide to try and get rid of those, or save for fog? If they are deciding to hold for fog, you can start throwing witch fires with low numbers of dice. If they decide to start denying things, then save your last 4 dice for fog and watch frustration set in. Even just using 2 Farseers I've played this game with my opponents, saving Invis for last while pushing through several other clutch powers that could easily have been denied and hampered my offense or using 2 dice (thanks SS of anath) to cast invis knowing my opponent was out of Warp Charges.

 Asmodas wrote:

 Skerr wrote:

Veshnakar wrote:
Played my first test game against marines/AM the other day. Really struggling to find a way for my troupes to survive overwatch and it's super frustrating. Even a small unit stands a good chance of knocking off 1-3 harlies before they even make it in. I know this can be somewhat mitigated with pinning but it's really a struggle sometimes.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should mitigate this? Should I just avoid enemy shooting units altogether with my troupes and use them to engage everything else? I just feel like it's important to get them in combat asap to avoid out of cover shooting.

Without the Dex in North America I have not had a good chance to dig in to this army. Really hoping it drops this weekend and we can get some more activity on this thread.

Outside of cheap allies like what was mentioned before my post Fog of Shadows is a cool power to mitigate overwatch though what if you don't roll it?

Hope is not a good battlefield strategy.

According to the local GW manager, the Codex will be available this coming weekend, so a matter of days really.

IIRC, Fog of Shadows doesn't do a thing about overwatch, sadly, as it just makes the unit snap shoot. Which it was going to do anyway. Definitely a nice debuff for big non-psychic deathstars, like Knights and Leman Russ squadrons (i.e. anything that relies heavily on blasts to do its damage).

You are correct, thanks for clarifying. Another reason why a codex in hand is needed. Got my fingers crossed but I feel pretty good about this weekend.

I have been looking at taking a masquerade detachment with eldar allies.

8-12 troupe
8-12 troupe
6 troupe

1 starweaver
4-6 sky weaver

1-3 prismweavers

2 shadow seers, 2 DJs (one for each large troop)
1solitaire

Eldar

Laughing Autarch on bike

6-9 windriders
10 rangers (allied detachment takes 2 troop?) Maybe a third ss or DJ. Need to check sniper range.

1 crimson hunter

Fire prism

Additional elites, War gear, upgrades tbd based on points played.

This is more personal preference rather than competitive. Plus I got the models and don't need to buy more after all the Harley I have bought.
I play against 5 other players. Another Harly/eldar, DA, AM, Ork, CSM.

I've also considered 2 units of 10 dire avenger in serpents and maybe Dark Reapers with a DJ behind ADL with quadgun.

I got notification last night that my Transports / Heavys were shipping through FedEx. No update on the Book though. Different container?

 gregor_xenos wrote:
I got notification last night that my Transports / Heavys were shipping through FedEx. No update on the Book though. Different container?

Stuck in California due to dock workers strike. The models are made in England, so unaffected. The codex was printed in China though.

It's really strange that the Shadowseers didn't get any kind of protection from Daemonic Attack , isn't that like their whole deal.

I found some really cool Harlequin Jetbikes so im including them in my harlequin force.

I have 6 jetbikes.

Which Eldar Character is est suited to compliment the Harlequins when on a Jetbike?

I was thinking of taking Eldar jetbikes (led by Eldar characters on jetbikes) to help Harlequins with the overwatch problem and taking Dark Eldar for the transports.
But no idea yet how i will combine that in points...

I have collected models for a Harlequin for many years and have Dark Eldar (raiders, small army), Eldar (jetbikes, wraithlords, wraithknight, transports) and all Harlequin models ever so i will be able to play lots of different combinations.

As i read it the main focus in any cases is getting transports and other ways to protect Harlequins from (overwatch) firepower.

ORicK wrote:
I was thinking of taking Eldar jetbikes (led by Eldar characters on jetbikes) to help Harlequins with the overwatch problem and taking Dark Eldar for the transports.
But no idea yet how i will combine that in points...

I have collected models for a Harlequin for many years and have Dark Eldar (raiders, small army), Eldar (jetbikes, wraithlords, wraithknight, transports) and all Harlequin models ever so i will be able to play lots of different combinations.

As i read it the main focus in any cases is getting transports and other ways to protect Harlequins from (overwatch) firepower.

Eldar jetbikes would be a very effective way I imagine, as you can take the windriders as troops, so as an allied detachment you can literally fufill the overwatch eating role without paying any tax whatsoever. 2x 3man Windrider units as troops, Jetseer or JetArch as your HQ, If you run the Jetarch solo with the MoLG he should be pretty beastly at tanking overwatch alone, that gives you 3 units that can eat overwatch without needing to bring anything else. They also come in pretty cheap, 200 pts? haven't got my eldar dex present.

I was bummed when I realized that Shadowseers can't cast Veil while in a transport; the starweavers will be VERY vulnerable to first turn long ranged fire with unless you hide them behind LOS terrain, in cover, jink, or burn off your 4++. A second turn charge seems very doable if you can survive that first volley of fire with your paper airplanes.

I believe that Wave Serpents can synergize because the serpent shield can cause pinning. With a Shadowseer with the mask at -2 leadership, it could work. It does seem like a risky gamble though. A much more reliable strategy has been mentioned; charge with bikes or an autarch with the mantle.

Here are two scenarios to consider with Harlequins and either DE or Eldar allies:

How would you take on a 20 man squad of Necron Warriors? You can stay out of range and then charge in reliably enough, but how to survive overwatch and how to sweep them?

How would you take on a 30 man squad of Orc boyz?

I'd be interested to hear your ideas on this.

Vashones wrote:
I was bummed when I realized that Shadowseers can't cast Veil while in a transport; the starweavers will be VERY vulnerable to first turn long ranged fire with unless you hide them behind LOS terrain, in cover, jink, or burn off your 4++. A second turn charge seems very doable if you can survive that first volley of fire with your paper airplanes.

I believe that Wave Serpents can synergize because the serpent shield can cause pinning. With a Shadowseer with the mask at -2 leadership, it could work. It does seem like a risky gamble though. A much more reliable strategy has been mentioned; charge with bikes or an autarch with the mantle.

Here are two scenarios to consider with Harlequins and either DE or Eldar allies:

How would you take on a 20 man squad of Necron Warriors? You can stay out of range and then charge in reliably enough, but how to survive overwatch and how to sweep them?

How would you take on a 30 man squad of Orc boyz?

I'd be interested to hear your ideas on this.

You wouldn't charge a full squad of either, ideally. Remember, Harlies don't take on large units well and it isn't their job. Harlies crush small high armor squads (where they get their points back killing high point models) and med. sized low armor units (where the weight of attacks can make up their points). If you charge a squad that puts out 15 S4 attacks after your initial blow, you're going to lose about half your squad. Next round they'll die. Ideally, you want your charge to just about wipe a squad allowing only a couple attacks back.

That being said, if you have to, charge in with something disposable first or a tanking character. Archon/Jetseer/Jetaurch make decent tanks. Wyches actually aren't bad with Harlies, the Harlies really take the heat off them and allow them to make combat. 1-2 large blobs of wyches with shadowseers running up the board could get some work done. Same thing with guardians/jetbikes on eldar side.

I'm looking at striking scorpions as my tanking unit, let them multi assault between two units, then swing in from the sides with 2 Harlequin troupes. The scorpions would basically be my targeting device first turn, if my opponents see it, then I am dictating g their movement phase.

 Skerr wrote:

 Asmodas wrote:

 Skerr wrote:

Veshnakar wrote:
Played my first test game against marines/AM the other day. Really struggling to find a way for my troupes to survive overwatch and it's super frustrating. Even a small unit stands a good chance of knocking off 1-3 harlies before they even make it in. I know this can be somewhat mitigated with pinning but it's really a struggle sometimes.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should mitigate this? Should I just avoid enemy shooting units altogether with my troupes and use them to engage everything else? I just feel like it's important to get them in combat asap to avoid out of cover shooting.

Without the Dex in North America I have not had a good chance to dig in to this army. Really hoping it drops this weekend and we can get some more activity on this thread.

Outside of cheap allies like what was mentioned before my post Fog of Shadows is a cool power to mitigate overwatch though what if you don't roll it?

Hope is not a good battlefield strategy.

According to the local GW manager, the Codex will be available this coming weekend, so a matter of days really.

IIRC, Fog of Shadows doesn't do a thing about overwatch, sadly, as it just makes the unit snap shoot. Which it was going to do anyway. Definitely a nice debuff for big non-psychic deathstars, like Knights and Leman Russ squadrons (i.e. anything that relies heavily on blasts to do its damage).

You are correct, thanks for clarifying. Another reason why a codex in hand is needed. Got my fingers crossed but I feel pretty good about this weekend.

I have been looking at taking a masquerade detachment with eldar allies.

8-12 troupe
8-12 troupe
6 troupe

1 starweaver
4-6 sky weaver

1-3 prismweavers

2 shadow seers, 2 DJs (one for each large troop)
1solitaire

Eldar

Laughing Autarch on bike

6-9 windriders
10 rangers (allied detachment takes 2 troop?) Maybe a third ss or DJ. Need to check sniper range.

1 crimson hunter

Fire prism

Additional elites, War gear, upgrades tbd based on points played.

This is more personal preference rather than competitive. Plus I got the models and don't need to buy more after all the Harley I have bought.
I play against 5 other players. Another Harly/eldar, DA, AM, Ork, CSM.

I've also considered 2 units of 10 dire avenger in serpents and maybe Dark Reapers with a DJ behind ADL with quadgun.

part of my thought was windriders eating ow.

any thoughts on infiltrating rangers offering suppression fire while transports and bikes scream downfield or large groups veil of tears their way?

Any feedback is appreciated.

They removed pinning from the sniper rule so rangers are not really suppresive anymore :(

I really wanted to use them like this as well.

 Skerr wrote:

part of my thought was windriders eating ow.

any thoughts on infiltrating rangers offering suppression fire while transports and bikes scream downfield or large groups veil of tears their way?

Any feedback is appreciated.

Speaking as someone who owns upwards of 20 rangers: they are next to useless. 1 shot weapons usually aren't great, 1 shot weapons that only ever wound 50% of the time are bad. 1 shot weapons that wound 50% of the time that rarely fire at full BS because you need to GtG in order to keep your squad alive are horrible. Save your points and just buy another 3 man squad of bikes.

 Dash2021 wrote:

Vashones wrote:
I was bummed when I realized that Shadowseers can't cast Veil while in a transport; the starweavers will be VERY vulnerable to first turn long ranged fire with unless you hide them behind LOS terrain, in cover, jink, or burn off your 4++. A second turn charge seems very doable if you can survive that first volley of fire with your paper airplanes.

I believe that Wave Serpents can synergize because the serpent shield can cause pinning. With a Shadowseer with the mask at -2 leadership, it could work. It does seem like a risky gamble though. A much more reliable strategy has been mentioned; charge with bikes or an autarch with the mantle.

Here are two scenarios to consider with Harlequins and either DE or Eldar allies:

How would you take on a 20 man squad of Necron Warriors? You can stay out of range and then charge in reliably enough, but how to survive overwatch and how to sweep them?

How would you take on a 30 man squad of Orc boyz?

I'd be interested to hear your ideas on this.

You wouldn't charge a full squad of either, ideally. Remember, Harlies don't take on large units well and it isn't their job. Harlies crush small high armor squads (where they get their points back killing high point models) and med. sized low armor units (where the weight of attacks can make up their points). If you charge a squad that puts out 15 S4 attacks after your initial blow, you're going to lose about half your squad. Next round they'll die. Ideally, you want your charge to just about wipe a squad allowing only a couple attacks back.

That being said, if you have to, charge in with something disposable first or a tanking character. Archon/Jetseer/Jetaurch make decent tanks. Wyches actually aren't bad with Harlies, the Harlies really take the heat off them and allow them to make combat. 1-2 large blobs of wyches with shadowseers running up the board could get some work done. Same thing with guardians/jetbikes on eldar side.

Oh you would not want to charge them ideally, but you will face bricks of necron warriors and mobs of boys and there should be a way to deal with them. I think the thread has already identified potential tools for this; either tanks or cheap units to eat overwatch.

I'm wondering if 6 man squads in transports is the way to go though. I plan on experimenting with larger squads on foot. If you kit them out each player is 20 points, so a squad of 9 is cheaper than 6 in a transport. Shadowseer can keep the fire off them with the primaris power. They are not as fast, but they are fleet and can ignore terrain.

This wait for the codex is brutal! I want to get these guys on the table.

Vashones wrote:

Spoiler:

 Dash2021 wrote:

Vashones wrote:
I was bummed when I realized that Shadowseers can't cast Veil while in a transport; the starweavers will be VERY vulnerable to first turn long ranged fire with unless you hide them behind LOS terrain, in cover, jink, or burn off your 4++. A second turn charge seems very doable if you can survive that first volley of fire with your paper airplanes.

I believe that Wave Serpents can synergize because the serpent shield can cause pinning. With a Shadowseer with the mask at -2 leadership, it could work. It does seem like a risky gamble though. A much more reliable strategy has been mentioned; charge with bikes or an autarch with the mantle.

Here are two scenarios to consider with Harlequins and either DE or Eldar allies:

How would you take on a 20 man squad of Necron Warriors? You can stay out of range and then charge in reliably enough, but how to survive overwatch and how to sweep them?

How would you take on a 30 man squad of Orc boyz?

I'd be interested to hear your ideas on this.

You wouldn't charge a full squad of either, ideally. Remember, Harlies don't take on large units well and it isn't their job. Harlies crush small high armor squads (where they get their points back killing high point models) and med. sized low armor units (where the weight of attacks can make up their points). If you charge a squad that puts out 15 S4 attacks after your initial blow, you're going to lose about half your squad. Next round they'll die. Ideally, you want your charge to just about wipe a squad allowing only a couple attacks back.

That being said, if you have to, charge in with something disposable first or a tanking character. Archon/Jetseer/Jetaurch make decent tanks. Wyches actually aren't bad with Harlies, the Harlies really take the heat off them and allow them to make combat. 1-2 large blobs of wyches with shadowseers running up the board could get some work done. Same thing with guardians/jetbikes on eldar side.

Oh you would not want to charge them ideally, but you will face bricks of necron warriors and mobs of boys and there should be a way to deal with them. I think the thread has already identified potential tools for this; either tanks or cheap units to eat overwatch.

I'm wondering if 6 man squads in transports is the way to go though. I plan on experimenting with larger squads on foot. If you kit them out each player is 20 points, so a squad of 9 is cheaper than 6 in a transport. Shadowseer can keep the fire off them with the primaris power. They are not as fast, but they are fleet and can ignore terrain.

This wait for the codex is brutal! I want to get these guys on the table.

I think one large squad is not at all a bad choice, but keep in mind that you're not really saving points on the transport. A ML 1 shadowseer is mandatory, but I have a hard time not justifying ML2. You'll probably want mask on them as well meaning you're actually over a transports cost by 10 points base, 35 points at ML2. Again, I don't think one large squad is bad, but no more than that realistically unless you don't plan on any allies. Besides cost, they will rarely have a good target for so many attacks. Large blobs and other deathstars is about the only time you'll not massively overkill your target.

Outside of outright whittling down the blob, absorbing OW, and a large squad of your own keep the DJ in mind. Even a LD 10 squad will check at 8, which is nearly 50-50 at running away. Then you might not even need to charge, as they'll be snap firing and not charging next turn (unless they're marines...). Alt, run them toward your squad if it has a shadowseer with mask (and archon with Armor of Misery!) and wipe them without swinging once when they fail that check as well.

Still, shooting blobs first is probably the safest and most consistent answer.

The problem I had with a 12 man blob, was it turned out to be overkill on all its targets. But it was highly effective, and it could take a hit with stealth, shrouded and the limited range power.

 Dash2021 wrote:

 Skerr wrote:

part of my thought was windriders eating ow.

any thoughts on infiltrating rangers offering suppression fire while transports and bikes scream downfield or large groups veil of tears their way?

Any feedback is appreciated.

Speaking as someone who owns upwards of 20 rangers: they are next to useless. 1 shot weapons usually aren't great, 1 shot weapons that only ever wound 50% of the time are bad. 1 shot weapons that wound 50% of the time that rarely fire at full BS because you need to GtG in order to keep your skinquad alive are horrible. Save your points and just buy another 3 man squad of bikes.

That's too bad. They used to rock back in the day... 2 MSU bikes might be the way to go.

I like the idea of the fire prism and 3 prism weavers grouped together but might be more thematic than effective.

I included the crimson hunter for AA though the quadgun on the ADL with Dark Reapers and a SS sounds fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dash2021 wrote:

Vashones wrote:

Spoiler:

 Dash2021 wrote:

Vashones wrote:
I was bummed when I realized that Shadowseers can't cast Veil while in a transport; the starweavers will be VERY vulnerable to first turn long ranged fire with unless you hide them behind LOS terrain, in cover, jink, or burn off your 4++. A second turn charge seems very doable if you can survive that first volley of fire with your paper airplanes.

I believe that Wave Serpents can synergize because the serpent shield can cause pinning. With a Shadowseer with the mask at -2 leadership, it could work. It does seem like a risky gamble though. A much more reliable strategy has been mentioned; charge with bikes or an autarch with the mantle.

Here are two scenarios to consider with Harlequins and either DE or Eldar allies:

How would you take on a 20 man squad of Necron Warriors? You can stay out of range and then charge in reliably enough, but how to survive overwatch and how to sweep them?

How would you take on a 30 man squad of Orc boyz?

I'd be interested to hear your ideas on this.

You wouldn't charge a full squad of either, ideally. Remember, Harlies don't take on large units well and it isn't their job. Harlies crush small high armor squads (where they get their points back killing high point models) and med. sized low armor units (where the weight of attacks can make up their points). If you charge a squad that puts out 15 S4 attacks after your initial blow, you're going to lose about half your squad. Next round they'll die. Ideally, you want your charge to just about wipe a squad allowing only a couple attacks back.

That being said, if you have to, charge in with something disposable first or a tanking character. Archon/Jetseer/Jetaurch make decent tanks. Wyches actually aren't bad with Harlies, the Harlies really take the heat off them and allow them to make combat. 1-2 large blobs of wyches with shadowseers running up the board could get some work done. Same thing with guardians/jetbikes on eldar side.

Oh you would not want to charge them ideally, but you will face bricks of necron warriors and mobs of boys and there should be a way to deal with them. I think the thread has already identified potential tools for this; either tanks or cheap units to eat overwatch.

I'm wondering if 6 man squads in transports is the way to go though. I plan on experimenting with larger squads on foot. If you kit them out each player is 20 points, so a squad of 9 is cheaper than 6 in a transport. Shadowseer can keep the fire off them with the primaris power. They are not as fast, but they are fleet and can ignore terrain.

This wait for the codex is brutal! I want to get these guys on the table.

I think one large squad is not at all a bad choice, but keep in mind that you're not really saving points on the transport. A ML 1 shadowseer is mandatory, but I have a hard time not justifying ML2. You'll probably want mask on them as well meaning you're actually over a transports cost by 10 points base, 35 points at ML2. Again, I don't think one large squad is bad, but no more than that realistically unless you don't plan on any allies. Besides cost, they will rarely have a good target for so many attacks. Large blobs and other deathstars is about the only time you'll not massively overkill your target.

Outside of outright whittling down the blob, absorbing OW, and a large squad of your own keep the DJ in mind. Even a LD 10 squad will check at 8, which is nearly 50-50 at running away. Then you might not even need to charge, as they'll be snap firing and not charging next turn (unless they're marines...). Alt, run them toward your squad if it has a shadowseer with mask (and archon with Armor of Misery!) and wipe them without swinging once when they fail that check as well.

Still, shooting blobs first is probably the safest and most consistent answer.

And shooting blobs with a squadron of prism weavers might whittle them down. Boyz anyway.