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I think Haywire grenades on everyone that can take them is cheap enough that it will do in a pinch, but I would never count on it.

I wonder if its worth it to put a Shadowseer with a 5 man troupe in a Skyweaver. Alternatively, you could put a Death Jester, or you could simply take a 6 man troupe. I do plan on running a unit on foot though, which needs a Shadowseer (or 2). The biggest question in my mind is what is the optimal configuration for 3 troupes for the masque detachment?

I am building mine for an event right now, 2x6 in star weavers (PS+HWG, 1 caress, 1 embrace, 3 kiss) then a big unit on foot with 2-3 shadow seer (again 2-3 caress, 2-3 embrace, rest kiss, storied sword and HWG).

Will post the full list shortly

So, the way of heroes is a beast! I have never seen a more efficient way to control enemy movement. The death jester is positioned near an edge, behind cover. That keeps the enemy away from that edges because they don't want to run off the side of the table. Solitaire on the other side, obviously nobody wants to get near him. That makes your opponent come into the middle, then the shadowseer is sitting about 8" into the center field, either buffing nearby units, or killing people with mind bullets. Don't put the mask on her however, the closer LD debuff is nice, but you waste the best part(the fearless)

I am so thoroughly enjoying this dex


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As an aside, the top of the Harlequin codex says "codex eldar"

I'd take that to mean they gain the benefit of crusader, as well as the fearless bubble from the avatar of Khaine. Otherwise, the harlequins in said book would be able to gain those benefits, while the units in their own codex would not. Doesn't make sense for that to be the case, and I believe it to be intentional.

Mine says Codex Harlequins on the digital version. I need to get home to check the hardback...

As for the crusader rule...

The Harlequins have a specific faction as described in the codex - that faction is HARLEQUINS. Not eldar harlequins but just harlequins.

Under Cast of players - it says that models with the Eldar or Dark Eldar FACTION within 6"gain...

Harlequins from Codex Harlequins do not have the eldar or dark eldar faction - they have the Harlequin faction and are thus not able to be affected.

For the Avatar rule - again its very clear... The Actual rule says that all friendly units chosen from CODEX ELDAR within 12" are fearless. Picking units/formations from Codex harlequins are not friendly units from Codex Eldar.

Fair enough, but I'm going to ask if my group are cool with it. If I ally in eldar, and have the avatar and a harlequin troupe in that detachment, that troupe gains all the benefits while the troupe next to them does not. My codex is currently somewhere down south, trapped by a blizzard, so I was only going by the picture of the cover and what other people had said

As a house rule that's completely up to you and your group.

You are right that if you take harlequins from their entry in the eldar codex then yes they would benefit from the crusader and avatar while the codex harlequins would not. That said, the Eldar harlequin entry doesn't have grenades, nor most of the new rules, are typically worse in combat and cost more to boot!

As per RAW - its clear. If you and your group are ok with the change - go nuts!

 Dash2021 wrote:

Asmodas wrote: If it's too restrictive, I'll just bring my Nids. Flyrant with 2x Devourers and just about anything will work at 500 points.

And then every 250 points you could just grab another flyrant and keep dominating the league. I really wish nids required more planning than that. But you can't blame people for spamming the best unit in an otherwise bland codex if GW makes it an option.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:Honestly, keep running cast of players. They give crusader to anyone within 6" so anyone footslogging down field will be able to run a rediculous distance. Then, from turn 2 on they can charge afterwards. 2d6, rerollable from fleet, gives you a real decent chance of getting a 5-6. Then, if you're fighting init 4+, you get the additional d3 to sweep. Positioned correctly, this unit can win you combats just for being nearby.

Since I'm still waiting on my codex......Does cast of players get run/charge as well? I know they get crusader, and I'm strongly considering running a Guardian blob/Cast list in an upcoming monthly tourny. If they get run/charge as well that'll just be gravy. I think crusader + Fleet + Charge is going to catch a lot of people off guard with just how freakin quick they make it across the board. A lot like Warp Spiders actually, which will also be in the list. Essentially crusader should give them the same threat range as a non-blitzing Solitaire.

I don't typically spam Flyrants. I have one, and another one in a box that I haven't put together yet. I have a sort of "fluff" problem with Tyranid hordes made up only (or primarily) of the rarest creature in the entire Hive Fleet. Then again, I have a fluff problem with every Grey Knight list including Draigo, lol.

I found out the details on the league, and I can basically move things around however I want in between rounds - I can change loadouts, unit compositions, FOC/formations, etc. I just have to keep the same basic units (but can increase or decrease the number of models within the unit). So, that gives me a lot of options.

I think I'm going to try something a little unorthodox for the first round, though.

Cast of Players, i.e. 1 Troupe with SS and DJ
2x Harlequins kiss, all the rest with stock weapons

Faolchu's Blade
2 Skyweavers x2 Shuricannon x2 Bolas
Voidweaver w/Haywire Cannon

Faolchu's Blade is kind of meh, but with the Shuricannons I can at least jink and snap-shoot. The Skyweavers can also distract from the Troupe while being annoyingly durable with the re-rollable jink save. Then, the plan is to charge with jinking skyweavers to soak up overwatch for the Troupe. The Troupe is pretty weak, but with Veil and Crusader it should move pretty fast and still hit reasonably hard.

The real reason to take Faolchu's Blade is that it + 1 Troupe is easily converted into a full Masque Detachment at 750. 2 more Troupes is 190, leaving 60 points left over for either another Shadowseer or weapons upgrades for the Troupes.

Has anybody give though to using Faolchu's Blade but equipping their skyweavers for melee? A 4+ re-rollable cover save could go a long way to helping keeping them alive. Since you are trying to assault the loss of BS isn't a huge deal. 4 Str. 5 AP 2 attacks per bike isn't too shabby. Plus it might draw some fire away from the troupes.

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
Has anybody give though to using Faolchu's Blade but equipping their skyweavers for melee? A 4+ re-rollable cover save could go a long way to helping keeping them alive. Since you are trying to assault the loss of BS isn't a huge deal. 4 Str. 5 AP 2 attacks per bike isn't too shabby. Plus it might draw some fire away from the troupes.

I have not but will once I get the dex in hand (damn winter storm delying the dex after the damn dock workers strick, lol). Going back and forth between threads and down loads is a pain.

I know folks are down on the sky weavers due to its cost, armor, etc... and its a good thing my group is a casual group.

I feel that most units need to use their special rules to be successful in most cases.

After soakinig up OW with some wind riders I plan on assaulting, slice and dice, then hit and run in most cases with the bikes. Not sure if it will be vialble bu that is the plan. Using Faolchu's blade seems like a good choice with that strategy.

I dont plan on using the bolas at all. With a 12 inch range it is to much to risk to have it blow back onto the bike.

Using corsair jetbike, we get scout and an extra attack for two close combat weapons. I will weep tears of now when they get updated

They do really well in assault in my experience. I send them against the more elite guys.

Last game they ate a unit of tomb blades with ease. They hit and run alongside my troupe against a some necron wraiths and their high S attacks made all the difference.

I found they were ok at their shooting role, but they arent shabby on the charge either. Still not great for their price but dont be afraid to charge a unit they shot to bits.

 Skerr wrote:

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
Has anybody give though to using Faolchu's Blade but equipping their skyweavers for melee? A 4+ re-rollable cover save could go a long way to helping keeping them alive. Since you are trying to assault the loss of BS isn't a huge deal. 4 Str. 5 AP 2 attacks per bike isn't too shabby. Plus it might draw some fire away from the troupes.

I have not but will once I get the dex in hand (damn winter storm delying the dex after the damn dock workers strick, lol). Going back and forth between threads and down loads is a pain.

I know folks are down on the sky weavers due to its cost, armor, etc... and its a good thing my group is a casual group.

I feel that most units need to use their special rules to be successful in most cases.

After soakinig up OW with some wind riders I plan on assaulting, slice and dice, then hit and run in most cases with the bikes. Not sure if it will be vialble bu that is the plan. Using Faolchu's blade seems like a good choice with that strategy.

I dont plan on using the bolas at all. With a 12 inch range it is to much to risk to have it blow back onto the bike.

I'll admit I haven't tried them yet, but the bolas shouldn't really hit you very often. They are on a BS4 platform, so if you are 8 1/2" away, they will never hit you. Even at 7" away, the chances of it hitting your model are only 3/36 or ~ 8.3%, and that is only if the arrow is pointing straight back toward your unit. Since 1/3 of the scatter dice results are hits, you can reduce that 8.3% to about 5.5%, which should go even lower since, even on a miss, the arrow could be pointing in any number of different directions. Probable actual chance of this happening is somewhere around 1% per bola.

OTOH, the bolas are by far the most annoying piece of Harlequin equipment out there from a modeling perspective. I've already broken two of them and had to re-glue them. Annoying!

For giggles, I wrote up a list of Eldar, Heroes' Way, and Faolchu's Blade.

With 2 CC skyweavers, I have a jetbike farseer with one and a spiritseer with faolchu's wing. The bikeseer keeps up with one unit, while the spiritseer throws up conceal on the other skyweaver unit and runs to keep up with them for a 2+ rerollable cover save. Heroes Way is just too good of a formation to pass up as well.

 Rypher wrote:
For giggles, I wrote up a list of Eldar, Heroes' Way, and Faolchu's Blade.

With 2 CC skyweavers, I have a jetbike farseer with one and a spiritseer with faolchu's wing. The bikeseer keeps up with one unit, while the spiritseer throws up conceal on the other skyweaver unit and runs to keep up with them for a 2+ rerollable cover save. Heroes Way is just too good of a formation to pass up as well.

My immediate thought upon seeing the skyweavers was to run a full squad with 2 jetseers. Would have been expensive, but would have had some pretty amazing potential. Then I realized they didn't come with grenades.............

 Asmodas wrote:

 Skerr wrote:

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
Has anybody give though to using Faolchu's Blade but equipping their skyweavers for melee? A 4+ re-rollable cover save could go a long way to helping keeping them alive. Since you are trying to assault the loss of BS isn't a huge deal. 4 Str. 5 AP 2 attacks per bike isn't too shabby. Plus it might draw some fire away from the troupes.

I have not but will once I get the dex in hand (damn winter storm delying the dex after the damn dock workers strick, lol). Going back and forth between threads and down loads is a pain.

I know folks are down on the sky weavers due to its cost, armor, etc... and its a good thing my group is a casual group.

I feel that most units need to use their special rules to be successful in most cases.

After soakinig up OW with some wind riders I plan on assaulting, slice and dice, then hit and run in most cases with the bikes. Not sure if it will be vialble bu that is the plan. Using Faolchu's blade seems like a good choice with that strategy.

I dont plan on using the bolas at all. With a 12 inch range it is to much to risk to have it blow back onto the bike.

I'll admit I haven't tried them yet, but the bolas shouldn't really hit you very often. They are on a BS4 platform, so if you are 8 1/2" away, they will never hit you. Even at 7" away, the chances of it hitting your model are only 3/36 or ~ 8.3%, and that is only if the arrow is pointing straight back toward your unit. Since 1/3 of the scatter dice results are hits, you can reduce that 8.3% to about 5.5%, which should go even lower since, even on a miss, the arrow could be pointing in any number of different directions. Probable actual chance of this happening is somewhere around 1% per bola.

OTOH, the bolas are by far the most annoying piece of Harlequin equipment out there from a modeling perspective. I've already broken two of them and had to re-glue them. Annoying!

Great point. I guess if I had to trim points I could swing a couple. But that flavor looks sweet on the charge.

Do a lot of other army bike or jetbike equivalents get grenades?

I love the harli jetbikes, in most cases anything you charge your opponent is going to be picking up off the table. That is what I have found to be their weakness of sorts so far. Is that they take out units too fast and get shot up instead of staying locked in combat to hit and run out of during your opponents turn.

Marines, probably the most prevalent bike force atm, have grenades- b/c marines.

DE Reavers don't get grenades, because apparently that technology is coveted in the Dark City being as no one but characters have access........But reavers get rending HoW attacks, and Caltrops on them get D6 S6 Rending HoW (at I10). So grenades become less of an issue.

Seer Council didn't, but it's seer council so first/last didn't matter you weren't going to lose anyone anyway.

Spawn are beasts.

Beast packs are.....beasts.

Shining Spears don't. See below.

The rest don't, but they don't need it either. Most bike units are shooting platforms, the ones above are the exception. All of them have some sort of durability boost (T5, Armor 3, Skilled rider etc.) Shining Spears and skyweavers have the same problem: they're incredibly expensive, have moderate durability, and perform a high risk roll. CC is high risk, it requires exposing yourself to a lot of risk. Every good CC unit in the game has some way of mitigating this, either through cheap bodies (Reavers) or high durability (Council, Marines). Just hitting hard in CC isn't enough, as most of us follow the maxim "Shoot the choppy things, chop the shooty things". And there's the problem: the one thing these two CC units have going for them (hard hitting in CC) is completely nullified by an opponent who knows how to keep their toes in cover.

Skyweaver would make a decent shooting platform, except the freakin haywire is blast. I'm sure one day GW will realize that blast weapons on skimmers don't work, but they obviously didn't put that together before the Harlie Codex was released. If that thing had been Heavy 2, I'd have been all over it like a fat kid on cake. But an AV10 gun platform that doesn't jink = KP. It's actually kind of insulting that they acknowledge this via mirage launchers, but did it anyway.

 Dash2021 wrote:

 Rypher wrote:
For giggles, I wrote up a list of Eldar, Heroes' Way, and Faolchu's Blade.

With 2 CC skyweavers, I have a jetbike farseer with one and a spiritseer with faolchu's wing. The bikeseer keeps up with one unit, while the spiritseer throws up conceal on the other skyweaver unit and runs to keep up with them for a 2+ rerollable cover save. Heroes Way is just too good of a formation to pass up as well.

My immediate thought upon seeing the skyweavers was to run a full squad with 2 jetseers. Would have been expensive, but would have had some pretty amazing potential. Then I realized they didn't come with grenades.............

That was my thought as well, and then you reminded me about the grenades! I'm going to try it out though, I have seen Farseer and Autarch with Shinning Spears do really well before and you don't need the Exarch for hit and run with the Skyweavers.

You only need to jink against ap4 or better, and you have a 5+ invuln save if you don't think many shots are going to hit( such as a plasma cannon or a reaper auto cannon) having two wounds helps in this regard. And you do have the jsj ability all eldar jetbikes have, so go ahead and dive into ruins if you don't have a charge target, there's your 4+ cover.

The main benefit these bikes have is the one use 4+ invuln save. Everyone talks about the amount of ignores cover out there, these guys laugh at your marker light bonuses and your fire on my target orders. No other bikes(or av10 skimmers) in the game can boast that( as far as I can recall)

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
You only need to jink against ap4 or better, and you have a 5+ invuln save if you don't think many shots are going to hit( such as a plasma cannon or a reaper auto cannon) having two wounds helps in this regard. And you do have the jsj ability all eldar jetbikes have, so go ahead and dive into ruins if you don't have a charge target, there's your 4+ cover.

The main benefit these bikes have is the one use 4+ invuln save. Everyone talks about the amount of ignores cover out there, these guys laugh at your marker light bonuses and your fire on my target orders. No other bikes(or av10 skimmers) in the game can boast that( as far as I can recall)

Be careful jumping in and out of cover, you don't have skilled rider, so jumping in and out of cover can be very dangerous. Too bad they didn't come with flip belts.

Wow they dont. I assumed they did because the Eldar ones do... I wonder why the skyweavers don't have it?

I was as shocked as you where when I found out they didn't have it. I felt like that was the last nail in the coffin. Oh the bright side, I love the kits, those masks that they come with sure are fun to put on other models.

 lambsandlions wrote:
I was as shocked as you where when I found out they didn't have it. I felt like that was the last nail in the coffin. Oh the bright side, I love the kits, those masks that they come with sure are fun to put on other models.

They also have heaps of heads to add on onto other vehicle pilots as well.

They arent totally bad, but in any competitive environment they are certainly not worth their 50+ points cost.

Hi guys have read through the whole thread and got some great info from it. I'm having a bit of a quandary over what my harlequin ally detachment should be to my eldar army. Every time I think I've decided and change my mind. Want tribute the bullets and order the models today so any helpwould be greatly appreciated...

1. 5 player troupe (all with kisses), level 1 shadowseer and starweaver transport - 250 (unbound)

2. 5 player troupe (all with kisses), level 2 shadowseer and deathjester - 265 (bound)

3. 8 player troupe (all with kisses), level 2 shadowseer - 265 (unbound)

They will be in a 1000 point army so can't spend much more and it is very casual so unbound not a problem. Mainly want to know if it's worth the starweaver or not or go foot with them and get more bodies???? People are starting to experience them now so hopefully have some insight. Thanks

Xeones7 wrote:
Hi guys have read through the whole thread and got some great info from it. I'm having a bit of a quandary over what my harlequin ally detachment should be to my eldar army. Every time I think I've decided and change my mind. Want tribute the bullets and order the models today so any helpwould be greatly appreciated...

1. 5 player troupe (all with kisses), level 1 shadowseer and starweaver transport - 250 (unbound)

2. 5 player troupe (all with kisses), level 2 shadowseer and deathjester - 265 (bound)

3. 8 player troupe (all with kisses), level 2 shadowseer - 265 (unbound)

They will be in a 1000 point army so can't spend much more and it is very casual so unbound not a problem. Mainly want to know if it's worth the starweaver or not or go foot with them and get more bodies???? People are starting to experience them now so hopefully have some insight. Thanks

Definitely go with option 2 for the moment, as the ability to have the "cast of players" formation give Crusader to your other Eldar units could be very valuable. Plus, it makes it a bound army and then you can build from there by adding a Starweaver (which can be added to the formation - even if the models can't start the game in it, it is still a respectable Dakka platform). Plus, both the Death Jester and Shadowseer models are fantastic - you will not be disappointed.

By they way, have you guys seen that "Harlequin Codex Review" over on BoLS? Wow, that was just a terrible review. He basically says Harlequins are a shooting army (wut) and one of the best units in the codex are the Skyweavers, while Shadowseers and Troupes suck (wut again). Not a mention of Veil, no discussion of tactics, just "load up on Shuriken Cannons and shoot." Just incredibly lazy. I have stopped going to BoLS much lately because the quality of the articles has been so bad - just tons of clickbait and content-free trash thrown up there to stir the pot. But, this "review" might just be the end for me.

Yea I read that today and wow, harliquins are no shooty army. The review was done by someone who clearly does not want to play anything that requires thinking and strategy.

Yes will it stand up to top tier tourney lists not alone but there is some very useful things that can cause massive damage. I saw a batrep where the guy deepstrikes a archon w/cast of players in a venom within the ld bubbles and used the grenade launchers, psychic powers and DJ/pistol shooting to decimate a deathstar. Not going to all work on fearless but still that's a nice unit and I def would try it sometime.

 Asmodas wrote:

Xeones7 wrote:
Hi guys have read through the whole thread and got some great info from it. I'm having a bit of a quandary over what my harlequin ally detachment should be to my eldar army. Every time I think I've decided and change my mind. Want tribute the bullets and order the models today so any helpwould be greatly appreciated...

1. 5 player troupe (all with kisses), level 1 shadowseer and starweaver transport - 250 (unbound)

2. 5 player troupe (all with kisses), level 2 shadowseer and deathjester - 265 (bound)

3. 8 player troupe (all with kisses), level 2 shadowseer - 265 (unbound)

They will be in a 1000 point army so can't spend much more and it is very casual so unbound not a problem. Mainly want to know if it's worth the starweaver or not or go foot with them and get more bodies???? People are starting to experience them now so hopefully have some insight. Thanks

Definitely go with option 2 for the moment, as the ability to have the "cast of players" formation give Crusader to your other Eldar units could be very valuable. Plus, it makes it a bound army and then you can build from there by adding a Starweaver (which can be added to the formation - even if the models can't start the game in it, it is still a respectable Dakka platform). Plus, both the Death Jester and Shadowseer models are fantastic - you will not be disappointed.

By they way, have you guys seen that "Harlequin Codex Review" over on BoLS? Wow, that was just a terrible review. He basically says Harlequins are a shooting army (wut) and one of the best units in the codex are the Skyweavers, while Shadowseers and Troupes suck (wut again). Not a mention of Veil, no discussion of tactics, just "load up on Shuriken Cannons and shoot." Just incredibly lazy. I have stopped going to BoLS much lately because the quality of the articles has been so bad - just tons of clickbait and content-free trash thrown up there to stir the pot. But, this "review" might just be the end for me.

Read it, and while I agree with some conclusions I think he's missing a bigger point. He wants a shooty army pretty obviously, so right off the bat Harlies got nothing for him. As he mentions, Troupes are 95 points base, and die in droves to a stiff breeze. He correctly compares them to DAs in WS, but misses the point. DAs do litterally nothing, and are a tax for your WS. That's it. That's the sum of their contribution to a game. Periodically they survive and cap an Objective as well, but that's really all you can hope for from them. If you try to use Harlequins the same way you're going to fail. But not because Harlies are bad, but because their transport is completely different. It's much more vulnerable, and has lower dmg potential. Your troops in this instance, must carry their weight. And once you realize they have Move through Cover, fleet, and can run/charge it shouldn't be a stretch to figure out how get them to contribute. I completely agree: the way he wants to play harlies makes them awful and unusable.

I'm not 100% sure what he's wanting from the organization chart. He pretty obviously is wanting to spam S6 weapon shots, and makes a big stink about not being able to get more Starweavers (which are definitely worth spamming, don't get me wrong). But a "traditional" Force org chart would only net him 1 more Starweaver anyway. And/or it'd allow him to spam more Skyweavers, but.....

Skyweavers? Really? And Shadowseers are crap? Don't get me wrong, Skyweavers are no howling banshees, but in a codex that so obviously is meant to be run with allies it's the first thing you cut from the list. I agree, and have stated several times now, that I think running shadowseers in a Starweaver is a mistake causing you to lose out on the entire reason you're bringing them (psychic phase). But the rest of his analysis is just dead wrong. "Alignment of the stars" to get off their best powers? Are you kidding? Their best power is their primaris power, you know- the one that mitigates that whole pesky getting shot off the board before you make combat thing? The rest of the powers are gravy on top of of the gravy sauce that is SS's. I mean, seriously, VoT is better protection from 20" out than freaking invis. and that's before factoring in the risk your opponent is going to take in loosing a turn of shooting (16" is about where I'd start rolling against veil myself).

I do agree on his assessment of Solitaires. 20 bolter shots killing a 145 points is more risk than I want in one model. He isn't great, but he's flavorful and fun and played right can do amazing things. Like skyweavers, first to be cut to save points for allies.

Voidweavers.......again I agree. 5 points so that you can still shoot after jinking isn't a bad investment to make your stupid HS tax easier to swallow.

But again, his entire conclusion is wrong because he wants the army to be something it's not. It's not marines, and it's not CWE/DE. It's Demons w/o monstrous creatures. Demons if the book had to do something besides find how many wings you can fit in a list.

Cast of Players cannot deep strike in a venom. Minimum size is 7. Did you mean Raider?

Bharring wrote:
Cast of Players cannot deep strike in a venom. Minimum size is 7. Did you mean Raider?

Was a raider. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/639049.page

I have had a few games with the Harlequins, and I actually can't wait to try them out against waveserpent spam! They have done surprisingly well against both astra militarum and necrons at low point values, and give my buddies tyranids a good game barring stupid deployment mistakes on my part.

I would love to see an army that relies on extreme range and ignores cover to stop their opponents deal with this kind of fast moving, impossible to shoot, melee destructiveness
The only thing I've had totally shut me down so far is min sized units of rippers with spinefists. Annoying little buggers have such low range that by the time they can shoot, me having VoT up isn't an issue. Multishot, short range weaponry is going to be a problem...