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Old-crons were already a top-tier army (4th best) so where do you think they rank now?

Are they stronger then before, the same or weaker?

I will abstain from voting until I have more time and actual gameplay data before making an opinion. Besides, the Las Vegas Open is this weekend, and that may tell us a lot.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I will abstain from voting until I have more time and actual gameplay data before making an opinion. Besides, the Las Vegas Open is this weekend, and that may tell us a lot.

How long does it take for thee results to be published?

Anyone who doesn't think the newcrons are bat-poop overpowered are either uninformed or necron players

lustigjh wrote:
Anyone who doesn't think the newcrons are bat-poop overpowered are either uninformed or necron players

That's a good way to get flamed or otherwise piss people off.

The question doesn't take into account the different "eras" the previous Necron codex existed in. For example, at first the Necron flying circus was ridicilously powerful, later it wasn't as more and more armies got access to effective anti-air options.

I can't fathom how so many think they are now more powerful than before, when clearly the previous codex had a combination of things that eclipse the new Wraiths easily when combined. Ah well.

They are by all means a good effective army, but I find it's far-fetched to say they are now more powerful than what you could do with the previous codex. And the first five big tournaments will really not say much; new effective things tend to do better when they are still new and people are just learning to play against them ( just like with Imperial Knights, which I reckon had a winrate of somewhere around 70-80% before plummeting as people learned how to play against them. ) Wait until 5-8 big tournaments have taken place, and you might have a general picture of how the new Necrons fare in the competitive scene.

I'm personally guessing they will do well, but they won't start dominating the tournaments.

I wouldn't say they are stronger as in fire power ways. I feel as though they stayed the same in this area, as their fire power was always pretty good. I feel they were buffed in resiliency though. A lot harder to kill. One of the tricks I use to use was ensuring I kill the entire unit to ignore rp, which is gone. So now new tactics are needed.

 RunicFIN wrote:


I can't fathom how so many think they are now more powerful than before, when clearly the previous codex had a combination of things that eclipse the new Wraiths easily when combined. Ah well.

New wraiths were the go to unit, the change eclipsed all the other units. Several other units that you never saw on the table are now viable, and can be impossibly hard to kill. Lichguard with sword and shield in a reclimation legion are one of those unusually durable unit. Throw a lord+res orb in, and you are almost immune to everything but SD for a single phase.

New wraiths are not what is going to be the new necron speartip in tournaments.

Necrons did get overall more powerful, mainly because of the increase to resiliency, but also because in the old codex there was only about 25% of the book that was usable. Now, everything is good, and they have more synergy than they did. Plus, the formations giving out free special rules. That's always a plus.

I voted the same, because I think they're still a strong army, just in a different form. I actually have a 2k point game with my Daemons against some Crons, so we'll see how things shake out

Eh... if this in regard to eras well...

Oldcron dex in 4th, powerful
Oldcron dex in 5th, weak with a few good builds with which it still could be quite the fight to win (as in tooth and nail with the slightest mistake biting you in the ass hard) even when used by talented players (Anyone remember DashofPepper and his Deciever led Wraithwing?)
Wardcron dex in 5th, very solid, not the best in terms of power but could definitely give the top contenders (GK, BA, SW) a run for their money
Wardcron dex in beginning of 6th, all powerful
Wardcron dex once several other codices began catching up with the 6th edition changes, Powerful, in the top tier but definitely not all powerful like they were in the beginning of 6th
Wardcron dex with advent of 7th, similar to previous, except all armies with psykers got a further leg up on Necrons arguably lowering their position on the powerscale (still upper tier though)
Newcron dex in 7th, It looks powerful, but I don't think it'll give them anywhere near the dominance they had in early 6th and throughout 4th edition. (But I am glad that the C'tan are once again a fairly good choice... okay, just the Nightbringer really )

A little too early to tell, but I'd say mildly stronger.

RP got better (even if it is less flavorful), alot of units are now takeable, but there were plenty of nerfs along with it.

I think they're undoubtedly stronger. Different, but stronger. They got some of the more exploitable aspects of their previous book toned down, but had tons of units get massive buffs and some insanely strong army-wide rules, RP being significantly more powerful overall. They're more flexible, have a greater variety of useable units, and they're just incredibly hard to kill.

And of course, Wraiths.

I have no real experience against them as of yet, but they seem stronger to me. The new RP is better for multi-wound models than the old rule was. Also, a lot of units got buffed as well!

Their strength depends on the mission. If there are a relatively few objectives, and a blob of 20 warriors and some lychguard can sit on one, it's pretty tough for anyone else to score that, unless and objective secured vehicle piles in. Afterward, the vehicle dies to guass fire and then it's more of the same.

You'd have to define 'strong' and what that #4 ranking means.

Their cheese got heavily nerfed.
Their Codex got buffed.
The end-result will probably be around the same.

Definitely stronger. I've been playing with and against crons for a long time. They are stronger now than ever before, with the only possible exception being cronair builds in early 6th.

Our necron results since the new codex is 16w-1l-1d across all players combined, and one of them is a newbie that was constantly losing right before the dex came out. Even he is dishing out crushing victories left and right now.

I'll say stronger because of the improvements across the codex. Some singular units were buffed or nerfed, but changing Ressurection Protocols have helped the entire army as a whole. The incredible Wraiths now and the nerfed Transcendent C'Tan are big deals, sure, but the fact that there are now many ways to play the codex while still keeping that resiliency instead of singular builds and the rest suck, that's a strong army.

At the upper end of the competative scene (top table of GT's and such) I think they got a bit weaker as some of their Cheese got removed, but at the competative & casual level, they got much, much stronger, doubly so for casual since they're much more forgiving of mistakes due to their new found resilience.

niv-mizzet wrote:
Definitely stronger. I've been playing with and against crons for a long time. They are stronger now than ever before, with the only possible exception being cronair builds in early 6th.

Our necron results since the new codex is 16w-1l-1d across all players combined, and one of them is a newbie that was constantly losing right before the dex came out. Even he is dishing out crushing victories left and right now.

Doesn't this speak volumes? 16-1-1, to me at least, is not a fluke. Especially when some of those wins are by noobs. Does anyone else have win/loss data of more than just 1 or 2 games?

Necron survivability is up, but all of their cool toys are reduced to hoping for 6's on damage rolls. Their anti-air is worse. Their antitank is still good, but it's worse than it was previously. The Tesla nerf hurt thier shooting, but their assault options got better.

I voted same. Harder to kill, but lost all their best ranged attacks.

 adamsouza wrote:
Necron survivability is up, but all of their cool toys are reduced to hoping for 6's on damage rolls. Their anti-air is worse. Their antitank is still good, but it's worse than it was previously. The Tesla nerf hurt thier shooting, but their assault options got better.

I voted same. Harder to kill, but lost all their best ranged attacks.

That was my vote as well for the same reasons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JimOnMars wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
Definitely stronger. I've been playing with and against crons for a long time. They are stronger now than ever before, with the only possible exception being cronair builds in early 6th.

Our necron results since the new codex is 16w-1l-1d across all players combined, and one of them is a newbie that was constantly losing right before the dex came out. Even he is dishing out crushing victories left and right now.

Doesn't this speak volumes? 16-1-1, to me at least, is not a fluke. Especially when some of those wins are by noobs. Does anyone else have win/loss data of more than just 1 or 2 games?

Not in my book. It's a new book that doesn't fit into the usual meta by being made of iron instead of being focused on dealing a lot of damage and instead doesn't take as much damage overall. It also eschews the standard FOC options for a different kind of build option that only lends more to the flavor as well. All it's showing to me is that the game hasn't adjusted yet to the book that is different to what they're used to facing and due to that the game is adjusting. In time everything will settle and we'll see the meta swing back the other way a bit.

My fairly competitive Space Wolf/Sisters army just got rolled in two back-to-back games, which just ended up feeling like the worst grind ever.

I didn't get rolled per-se, as I only lost by two objective-points, but it felt soooo demoralizing seeing the volume of saves of all kinds Decurion, etc, ends up allowing.

It just FEELS horrible shooting ignores cover melta by the handful, or high strength AP1 or 2, or even using TWC in assault and having shred for days, all be needed to remove just a couple models from a unit.

Army-wide 4+ Res, re-rolling 1s just made for a terribly unfun time, and very long games.

And that isn't even discussing the Wraiths with 3++, 4+ RP, re-rolling 1s, that tied up TWC for an entire game.

Yeah... I'd say they're somewhat stronger... if only as a result of how obscenely durable they are. They weren't going to table me, but they could just lock the game up, and endure their way to victory. :-p

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
Definitely stronger. I've been playing with and against crons for a long time. They are stronger now than ever before, with the only possible exception being cronair builds in early 6th.

Our necron results since the new codex is 16w-1l-1d across all players combined, and one of them is a newbie that was constantly losing right before the dex came out. Even he is dishing out crushing victories left and right now.

Doesn't this speak volumes? 16-1-1, to me at least, is not a fluke. Especially when some of those wins are by noobs. Does anyone else have win/loss data of more than just 1 or 2 games?

Not in my book. It's a new book that doesn't fit into the usual meta by being made of iron instead of being focused on dealing a lot of damage and instead doesn't take as much damage overall. It also eschews the standard FOC options for a different kind of build option that only lends more to the flavor as well. All it's showing to me is that the game hasn't adjusted yet to the book that is different to what they're used to facing and due to that the game is adjusting. In time everything will settle and we'll see the meta swing back the other way a bit.

I sure would like it if that is the case. But isn't it just as likely that the cron players will adjust to their codex just as much as we do? As we learn counters, they will find more synergies. I don't hold out hope that the 16-1-1 results are going to change much as the DuriCron players become more adept at board control with their near-unkillable armies.

 JimOnMars wrote:
I sure would like it if that is the case. But isn't it just as likely that the cron players will adjust to their codex just as much as we do? As we learn counters, they will find more synergies. I don't hold out hope that the 16-1-1 results are going to change much as the DuriCron players become more adept at board control with their near-unkillable armies.

And what says they all have? Especially new players?

All the book provides upfront is durability, the rest is up to the player to use that the most effectively to win the game (instead of endure it).

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
My fairly competitive Space Wolf/Sisters army just got rolled in two back-to-back games, which just ended up feeling like the worst grind ever.

I didn't get rolled per-se, as I only lost by two objective-points, but it felt soooo demoralizing seeing the volume of saves of all kinds Decurion, etc, ends up allowing.

It just FEELS horrible shooting ignores cover melta by the handful, or high strength AP1 or 2, or even using TWC in assault and having shred for days, all be needed to remove just a couple models from a unit.

Army-wide 4+ Res, re-rolling 1s just made for a terribly unfun time, and very long games.

And that isn't even discussing the Wraiths with 3++, 4+ RP, re-rolling 1s, that tied up TWC for an entire game.

Yeah... I'd say they're somewhat stronger... if only as a result of how obscenely durable they are. They weren't going to table me, but they could just lock the game up, and endure their way to victory. :-p

The Wraiths don't get to re-roll 1's, that ability only applies to the Overlord from the Reclamation Legion Formation and any unit from the Formation within 12" of him.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
My fairly competitive Space Wolf/Sisters army just got rolled in two back-to-back games, which just ended up feeling like the worst grind ever.

I didn't get rolled per-se, as I only lost by two objective-points, but it felt soooo demoralizing seeing the volume of saves of all kinds Decurion, etc, ends up allowing.

It just FEELS horrible shooting ignores cover melta by the handful, or high strength AP1 or 2, or even using TWC in assault and having shred for days, all be needed to remove just a couple models from a unit.

Army-wide 4+ Res, re-rolling 1s just made for a terribly unfun time, and very long games.

And that isn't even discussing the Wraiths with 3++, 4+ RP, re-rolling 1s, that tied up TWC for an entire game.

Yeah... I'd say they're somewhat stronger... if only as a result of how obscenely durable they are. They weren't going to table me, but they could just lock the game up, and endure their way to victory. :-p

The Wraiths don't get to re-roll 1's, that ability only applies to the Overlord from the Reclamation Legion Formation and any unit from the Formation within 12" of him.

Which proves my point about people not getting the rules right being part of the real problem.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
I sure would like it if that is the case. But isn't it just as likely that the cron players will adjust to their codex just as much as we do? As we learn counters, they will find more synergies. I don't hold out hope that the 16-1-1 results are going to change much as the DuriCron players become more adept at board control with their near-unkillable armies.

And what says they all have? Especially new players?

All the book provides upfront is durability, the rest is up to the player to use that the most effectively to win the game (instead of endure it).

That durability cannot be undersold, however. I've seen Newcron players multi-charging with reckless abandon just to tie up units they have no business being able to survive against. I can definitely see how new players will be doing disproportionately well with this Codex and they can essentially assault anything and bind things up even better than a 30-man blob of Ork Boyz, etc...

Seriously... I am almost shocked by the durability of this army. It is going to shake the meta is substantial ways, to be sure, with a problem being that there really is no answer. Their tricks work regardless of what is shot/charged, etc... at them. :-p


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and thanks for the catch, as it does mean my opponent was (i'm sure, unknowingly) cheating just a bit.

That said... the 3++, 4+ RP is an insane save anyway, and on a multi-wound model. How that one got through play-testing, on models that cheap, no less, I will never know.

When I was working on Strange Aeons I prided myself on grinding away at every number/mathematical choice, to ensure balance... I guess GW doesn't even make a first-pass at testing. :-p

This question is kinda black and white.
When the last necron codex was released it was ridiculously op. As time went on it was still a strong competitve codex. However it wasn't as dominant as when it was first released and for like a year and half after. Basically eldar and tau took the mantle. However the new codex is stronger then the old codex but not as broken as it was when the old codex was released. I fully expect necrons to be highly competitve and place high in tournaments this year including LVO. However eldar, tau, tyranids, demons and a few space marine combos are just as powerful. So it's not quite broken yet. I guess I will wait and see if someone devises some broken combo at LVO or adepticon.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
I sure would like it if that is the case. But isn't it just as likely that the cron players will adjust to their codex just as much as we do? As we learn counters, they will find more synergies. I don't hold out hope that the 16-1-1 results are going to change much as the DuriCron players become more adept at board control with their near-unkillable armies.

And what says they all have? Especially new players?

All the book provides upfront is durability, the rest is up to the player to use that the most effectively to win the game (instead of endure it).

That durability cannot be undersold, however. I've seen Newcron players multi-charging with reckless abandon just to tie up units they have no business being able to survive against. I can definitely see how new players will be doing disproportionately well with this Codex and they can essentially assault anything and bind things up even better than a 30-man blob of Ork Boyz, etc...

Seriously... I am almost shocked by the durability of this army. It is going to shake the meta is substantial ways, to be sure, with a problem being that there really is no answer. Their tricks work regardless of what is shot/charged, etc... at them. :-p


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and thanks for the catch, as it does mean my opponent was (i'm sure, unknowingly) cheating just a bit.

That said... the 3++, 4+ RP is an insane save anyway, and on a multi-wound model. How that one got through play-testing, on models that cheap, no less, I will never know.

When I was working on Strange Aeons I prided myself on grinding away at every number/mathematical choice, to ensure balance... I guess GW doesn't even make a first-pass at testing. :-p

It got through because you have a single lynchpin model for the formation and it does start until the Necron player's first turn.