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It actually works perfectly. XV8s are T4, XV9s are T5, and XV10s are T6.

And XV88 are someone still T4, despite having the bodymass of a dreadnaut.

If anything, tau statlines are often UNDER what they should be fluffwise, not over it.
A freaking giant robot made of superior materials SHOULD be though as nails. if you cant justify a T6 W5 Sv2+/5++ on something of that scale, there is no way in hell you can justify half the things the IoM is packing.

I'm not really stating anything that hasn't been said before. Are Riptides OP? Yes. Are IK, and FMC also OP? Yes. Is invisibility OP? Yes. Are serps OP? Yes.

There isn't an army list out there that doesn't have access to these things...cept orks...So I can really feel for the orks here - though Orks really aren't weak to any of those things listed above except knights but really...what isn't weak to 5 knights?

 BoomWolf wrote:
And XV88 are someone still T4, despite having the bodymass of a dreadnaut.

If anything, tau statlines are often UNDER what they should be fluffwise, not over it.
A freaking giant robot made of superior materials SHOULD be though as nails. if you cant justify a T6 W5 Sv2+/5++ on something of that scale, there is no way in hell you can justify half the things the IoM is packing.

That's fine, just pay the appropriate points for it. Which they don't.

 BoomWolf wrote:

A freaking giant robot made of superior materials SHOULD be though as nails. if you cant justify a T6 W5 Sv2+/5++ on something of that scale, there is no way in hell you can justify half the things the IoM is packing.

I can faintly remember random Space Marines cutting up those high-tech robots in the Democles novels. Didn't one almost bite the dust from a lasgun volley too? Man, I must re-read those books...

" It's the increase of the base riptide which is wrong and misguided"

No, it's really not. The stats are crazy for a long range unit.

Martel732 wrote:
" It's the increase of the base riptide which is wrong and misguided"

No, it's really not. The stats are crazy for a long range unit.

But it's not a long ranged unit at base. At base it's range is 36"

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
" It's the increase of the base riptide which is wrong and misguided"

No, it's really not. The stats are crazy for a long range unit.

But it's not a long ranged unit at base. At base it's range is 36"

36" is a lot longer ranged than the Dreadknight that it is being compared to. 36" is out of the range of all grav weapons, plasma guns, and all melta weapons. I'd say that's a pretty long range.

 BoomWolf wrote:
And XV88 are someone still T4, despite having the bodymass of a dreadnaut.

If anything, tau statlines are often UNDER what they should be fluffwise, not over it.
A freaking giant robot made of superior materials SHOULD be though as nails. if you cant justify a T6 W5 Sv2+/5++ on something of that scale, there is no way in hell you can justify half the things the IoM is packing.

Fluff is often a poor measure. I mean every book talks their army up to be unstoppable. In reality we are playing a game that balances power with a point based system. I'm perfectly okay with a riptide being that tough. It should probably cost about 30- 40 points more points in it's popular load outs though if it's going to be that tough. It's also a unit that covers all your armies weaknesses. It gives first strike capability vs drop pods and It's a pretty strong CC unit - I've seen one tie up a thunder wolf squad for 4 rounds of combat - forgive people for finding this a little bit OP.

MCs are OP in assault in general. It's just that many of them have trouble getting there. The Riptide makes YOU come to IT.

Martel732 wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
" It's the increase of the base riptide which is wrong and misguided"

No, it's really not. The stats are crazy for a long range unit.

But it's not a long ranged unit at base. At base it's range is 36"

36" is a lot longer ranged than the Dreadknight that it is being compared to. 36" is out of the range of all grav weapons, plasma guns, and all melta weapons. I'd say that's a pretty long range.

36" is medium-ranged. You really have to be at least 48" to be long ranged. And that 36" does piddly amounts of damage. Unsupported it does 4 strength 6 hits at AP4.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
And XV88 are someone still T4, despite having the bodymass of a dreadnaut.

If anything, tau statlines are often UNDER what they should be fluffwise, not over it.
A freaking giant robot made of superior materials SHOULD be though as nails. if you cant justify a T6 W5 Sv2+/5++ on something of that scale, there is no way in hell you can justify half the things the IoM is packing.

Fluff is often a poor measure. I mean every book talks their army up to be unstoppable. In reality we are playing a game that balances power with a point based system. I'm perfectly okay with a riptide being that tough. It should probably cost about 30- 40 points more points in it's popular load outs though if it's going to be that tough. It's also a unit that covers all your armies weaknesses. It gives first strike capability vs drop pods and It's a pretty strong CC unit - I've seen one tie up a thunder wolf squad for 4 rounds of combat - forgive people for finding this a little bit OP.

On this topic, there is no forgiveness. Never mind that I think several Tau units should be buffed to make the army more competitive internally. The Riptide is so good that it's a mega-no brainer. That's another huge red flag.

Martel732 wrote:
" It's the increase of the base riptide which is wrong and misguided"

No, it's really not. The stats are crazy for a long range unit.

Your opinion. Not a fact.

IMO base stats are fine considerimg part of it's Wounds are Nova Charge fuel.

IA stats are the issue.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
" It's the increase of the base riptide which is wrong and misguided"

No, it's really not. The stats are crazy for a long range unit.

But it's not a long ranged unit at base. At base it's range is 36"

36" is a lot longer ranged than the Dreadknight that it is being compared to. 36" is out of the range of all grav weapons, plasma guns, and all melta weapons. I'd say that's a pretty long range.

36" is medium-ranged. You really have to be at least 48" to be long ranged. And that 36" does piddly amounts of damage. Unsupported it does 4 strength 6 hits at AP4.

You are just arguing semantics. I consider 36" to be the start of long range. This changes nothing, however. Everything I said about a 36" range is true. And still leaves it more effective than a base Dreadknight. And much, much harder to kill.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LordBlades wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
" It's the increase of the base riptide which is wrong and misguided"

No, it's really not. The stats are crazy for a long range unit.

Your opinion. Not a fact.

There are no "facts" in subjective comparisons in units. Quit stating the obvious.

Martel732 wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
" It's the increase of the base riptide which is wrong and misguided"

No, it's really not. The stats are crazy for a long range unit.

But it's not a long ranged unit at base. At base it's range is 36"

36" is a lot longer ranged than the Dreadknight that it is being compared to. 36" is out of the range of all grav weapons, plasma guns, and all melta weapons. I'd say that's a pretty long range.

36" is medium-ranged. You really have to be at least 48" to be long ranged. And that 36" does piddly amounts of damage. Unsupported it does 4 strength 6 hits at AP4.

You are just arguing semantics. I consider 36" to be the start of long range. This changes nothing, however. Everything I said about a 36" range is true. And still leaves it more effective than a base Dreadknight. And much, much harder to kill.

The start of long ranged (or 150% of basic weapon) is still not very effective, especially when you actually look at the gun. In a round of shooting it will kill 1.1 marines,

How many marines does a base Dreadknight kill from 36"?

LordBlades wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
" It's the increase of the base riptide which is wrong and misguided"

No, it's really not. The stats are crazy for a long range unit.

Your opinion. Not a fact.

IMO base stats are fine considerimg part of it's Wounds are Nova Charge fuel.

IA stats are the issue.

3 str 7 ap2 shots is often better than overcharging...Large blast has trouble hitting more than 3 units anyways.

Dread knights don't receive perils wound fuel. Nether do librarians...you can even save the wound with your 5+ FNP where as wounds from perils table are non savable. It's a pretty terrible argument.

 BoomWolf wrote:

Backfire wrote:

Compare Riptide with Ionhead. Why is Riptide, which is a battlesuit, much more durable AND mobile AND has better firepower than Ionhead which is a goddamn TANK? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. It is exact same thing if Dreadnaught was chanced to AV14 and Transport Capacity 12 and given better weapons than a Land Raider.

Because the hammerhead is an"old" weapon platform (in the tau sense of age) and of their lesser techs, and the riptide is the peak of their technology?
Its the same thing as comparing the dreadknight to the predator. the dreadknight is flat out BETTER.

Great, you use the other ill-conceived MC which really should be a walker too, to make your point.

So lets say Riptide has new super-duper armour and Nova-reactor to make it more powerful than previous generation tanks.
Why don't the Tau apply this technology to tanks?

After all, Hammerhead has much more internal space than Riptide. Shielding, cooling etc. must be much easier in a tank compared to a suit. In a tank the crew probably would not be in risk from Nova reactor. It has better shaped armour, the mobility is better as the tank floats whilst Riptide's airborne abilities are limited to small hops.

Again, no matter how you put it, the whole thing doesn't make a lick of sense.

 BoomWolf wrote:

And 40k has this whole "humanoid shape is better war machine" mere going in it, in case you haven't noticed knights, titans and stuff.

What about Baneblade and Battle Fortresses?
Why do Eldar have really advanced, powerful tanks since they clearly possess the knowledge to make advanced walkers AND MC's?

 BoomWolf wrote:

As for the nerf-it will make it unplayable at that point cost.

Interesting, given that still it would be clearly superior to for example, Carnifex. I guess that one of the most common MC's in the game is then utterly unplayable?

 BoomWolf wrote:

And if you drop the defense, and than drop the cost, what did you get there?

An unit whichs abilities are balanced within both the Codex itself, and compared to how similar units are modelled in other books and which doesn't force the metagame to change around it.

Yeah, I can see why that would be a bad thing.

 BoomWolf wrote:

You just shifted the balance from high-durability low-firepower to high-firepower low-durability. tau does not need 2 elite battlesuit glass cannon type units with our low selections as it is.

Funny how T6 4W 3+ 5++ is "low-durability".

But here's another crazy idea: maybe the Tau shouldn't be "low selection" army? Maybe if the stuff like tanks, Piranhas, Stealth suits, flyers etc. were actually worth taking instead of/ in addition to battlesuits, the army wouldn't be so damn dependent from couple of lynchpin units to provide the necessary durability and/or firepower?

Martel732 wrote:
How many marines does a base Dreadknight kill from 36"?

I have no idea, I don't play GK, but that's not the point. What the GK does is entirely separate to what the riptide does. Looking that the base riptide, no upgrades, it is not OP. It's tough, but it mostly a big target, a distraction. The only problems are the costs of it's upgrades

LordBlades wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Riptides are beyond excellent, being amazingly tough, very shooty and has way too much synergy with markerlights as well. It also has a lot of utility and can adapt to any situation. Incoming grav bikers? Either pop 3++ or nova charge IA and nuke them to tiny bits with your cover-ignoring high-BS AP2 pieplate.

Deleting foot marines who pay very dearly for their T4 3+ without even granting them the mercy of cover is evil.

T6 W5 2+/5++/5+++ on a JSJ platform is also evil.

The Riptide is not the only thing in 40K that is way too strong. Far from it. But it still deserves the nerfhammer, and deserves it hard.

How does the bike squad example work in practice, assuming by 'grav bikers' you mean Command squad and not the bike squad with their lone grav gun:
You shoot, you pass Gets Hot!, blast doesn't scatter,so you hit let's say 4 bikers ( realistically it will most often be 3 with proper spacing). The guy up front with the Storm Shield (captain or Chapter Master)takes the let's say 4 wounds (again we assume no 1 was rolled for to Wound, blocks 2/3 on his 3++. Congrats! You have just done 1.25 wounds to a grav bike squad. If he has no Apothecary that is.

Next round your Riptide us eating 12 grav shots, possibly with Perfect Timing if he allied in a Rune Priest like most bikestars seem.to do nowadays.

Also, the facr that Tac Squads pay 'very dearly' for 3+ and t4 is one of the reasons they're terrible troops.

I did not mention any rune priests, smashfethers or bikestars.

I merely talked about grav bikers (yes, obviously that means a bike command squad - but they don't always have a smashfether with them, and the smashfether is arguably OP in himself)

Remove the storm shield save, and you now have 4 dead bikers instead - pretty much the whole squad.

In fact, since fluff is important, why don't we implement a rule where my meltagun guy can melt right through the armour and reduce the Riptide pilot to slag? And multimeltas as well. I mean, it's melta after all.

And before you say it, yes, we can slap that rule onto DKs too.

 Ashiraya wrote:

Remove the storm shield save, and you now have 4 dead bikers instead - pretty much the whole squad.

Actually, that would be just ~2 dead bikers because of their cover saves. Because, y'know, the Riptide doesn't ignore cover saves all by itself.

 Ashiraya wrote:

LordBlades wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Riptides are beyond excellent, being amazingly tough, very shooty and has way too much synergy with markerlights as well. It also has a lot of utility and can adapt to any situation. Incoming grav bikers? Either pop 3++ or nova charge IA and nuke them to tiny bits with your cover-ignoring high-BS AP2 pieplate.

Deleting foot marines who pay very dearly for their T4 3+ without even granting them the mercy of cover is evil.

T6 W5 2+/5++/5+++ on a JSJ platform is also evil.

The Riptide is not the only thing in 40K that is way too strong. Far from it. But it still deserves the nerfhammer, and deserves it hard.

How does the bike squad example work in practice, assuming by 'grav bikers' you mean Command squad and not the bike squad with their lone grav gun:
You shoot, you pass Gets Hot!, blast doesn't scatter,so you hit let's say 4 bikers ( realistically it will most often be 3 with proper spacing). The guy up front with the Storm Shield (captain or Chapter Master)takes the let's say 4 wounds (again we assume no 1 was rolled for to Wound, blocks 2/3 on his 3++. Congrats! You have just done 1.25 wounds to a grav bike squad. If he has no Apothecary that is.

Next round your Riptide us eating 12 grav shots, possibly with Perfect Timing if he allied in a Rune Priest like most bikestars seem.to do nowadays.

Also, the facr that Tac Squads pay 'very dearly' for 3+ and t4 is one of the reasons they're terrible troops.

I did not mention any rune priests, smashfethers or bikestars.

I merely talked about grav bikers (yes, obviously that means a bike command squad - but they don't always have a smashfether with them, and the smashfether is arguably OP in himself)

Remove the storm shield save, and you now have 4 dead bikers instead - pretty much the whole squad.

In fact, since fluff is important, why don't we implement a rule where my meltagun guy can melt right through the armour and reduce the Riptide pilot to slag? And multimeltas as well. I mean, it's melta after all.

And before you say it, yes, we can slap that rule onto DKs too.

So the core of your argument was that an IA Riptide can kill a terrible bike command squad setup?

 Xenomancers wrote:

LordBlades wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
" It's the increase of the base riptide which is wrong and misguided"

No, it's really not. The stats are crazy for a long range unit.

Your opinion. Not a fact.

IMO base stats are fine considerimg part of it's Wounds are Nova Charge fuel.

IA stats are the issue.

3 str 7 ap2 shots is often better than overcharging...Large blast has trouble hitting more than 3 units anyways.

Dread knights don't receive perils wound fuel. Nether do librarians...you can even save the wound with your 5+ FNP where as wounds from perils table are non savable. It's a pretty terrible argument.

If you nerf the base Riptide, where does thst leave the HBC version? Without Nova Charge it hits like a wet towel and with Nova Charge it has 33% chance to lose a wound and then 12 Gets Hot! rolls.

LordBlades wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Riptides are beyond excellent, being amazingly tough, very shooty and has way too much synergy with markerlights as well. It also has a lot of utility and can adapt to any situation. Incoming grav bikers? Either pop 3++ or nova charge IA and nuke them to tiny bits with your cover-ignoring high-BS AP2 pieplate.

Deleting foot marines who pay very dearly for their T4 3+ without even granting them the mercy of cover is evil.

T6 W5 2+/5++/5+++ on a JSJ platform is also evil.

The Riptide is not the only thing in 40K that is way too strong. Far from it. But it still deserves the nerfhammer, and deserves it hard.

How does the bike squad example work in practice, assuming by 'grav bikers' you mean Command squad and not the bike squad with their lone grav gun:
You shoot, you pass Gets Hot!, blast doesn't scatter,so you hit let's say 4 bikers ( realistically it will most often be 3 with proper spacing). The guy up front with the Storm Shield (captain or Chapter Master)takes the let's say 4 wounds (again we assume no 1 was rolled for to Wound, blocks 2/3 on his 3++. Congrats! You have just done 1.25 wounds to a grav bike squad. If he has no Apothecary that is.

Next round your Riptide us eating 12 grav shots, possibly with Perfect Timing if he allied in a Rune Priest like most bikestars seem.to do nowadays.

Also, the facr that Tac Squads pay 'very dearly' for 3+ and t4 is one of the reasons they're terrible troops.

So bike command squads with grav guns come with free storm shield chapter masters now? I must have missed that, because I still see the cost in the book as "way higher than a riptide." That's one of the few units that can actually defend itself from the IA...which is why you (the tau player) should just shoot it with different units until the CM drops from weight of fire. Just because you can find super expensive units here and there that the tide doesn't point-click-delete doesn't mean it's not overpowered. It just means the situation COULD be worse.

As for comparisons to other OP things (from various posts)
The macaroni water that I have boiling right now is hot. I'm not going to claim that it isn't hot just because the oven can do twice that temp.

I agree Boniface. There are a lot of points in this thread where I'm also like: "did he really just say that?"
Reminds me of the new decurion wraith thread where someone offered up a 1000 point green tide as a solution to a unit that could be 120-240ish points.

Really I think the markerlight's ignore cover ability needs to be nerfed back to -1 per light, maybe -1 per 2 lights, or add in that anything over middling strength cannot benefit from the ignore cover effect. Beyond weak incendiary blasts and short range flamers, I don't think anything short of 6-on-the-D should flat out ignore cover. It removes terrain as a basic function of the game. And yes, this includes serpent shields and anything else that randomly has ignore cover without being some obviously weaker incendiary type weapon. Even the DK heavy incinerator pushes the limits of what I would allow to have ignore cover if I were responsible for the rules.

Tide is too good all around. No really cost-effective counters. Even things that can counter it take too long to do so, and let it work it's magic for at least a couple turns. The IA and lights are a big problem, but I also think the basic frame is way too durable, even if you're just shooting some burst and smart missiles.

Ridicule me all you want, that's just my opinion dudes, formed from a very large amount of experiences playing with, against, or spectating the thing in use. Calling me an "idiotic IoM player" isn't going to change it. With the exception of when people fall into the newbie trap of nova-ing every turn, I've never seen a tide leave the table without covering its own point cost, and absorbing way more than its point cost in punishment.

I'd buff the HBC quite a bit; I'd make it competitive with the IA.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
How many marines does a base Dreadknight kill from 36"?

I have no idea, I don't play GK, but that's not the point. What the GK does is entirely separate to what the riptide does. Looking that the base riptide, no upgrades, it is not OP. It's tough, but it mostly a big target, a distraction. The only problems are the costs of it's upgrades

Not according to many Tau players. They are using the Dreadknight to somehow justify the Riptide. I don't think it's even close, myself, but again, it's opinion. You are right, the base Riptide is not OP. But it is still undercosted for what it gets.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

Remove the storm shield save, and you now have 4 dead bikers instead - pretty much the whole squad.

Actually, that would be just ~2 dead bikers because of their cover saves. Because, y'know, the Riptide doesn't ignore cover saves all by itself.

If they jink they cripple their return fire so it's fine. Plus, you rarely let your Riptide go unmarkerlighted.

Also, 'it doesn't massacre OP units!' is not an excuse.

Martel732 wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
How many marines does a base Dreadknight kill from 36"?

I have no idea, I don't play GK, but that's not the point. What the GK does is entirely separate to what the riptide does. Looking that the base riptide, no upgrades, it is not OP. It's tough, but it mostly a big target, a distraction. The only problems are the costs of it's upgrades

Not according to many Tau players. They are using the Dreadknight to somehow justify the Riptide. I don't think it's even close, myself, but again, it's opinion. You are right, the base Riptide is not OP. But it is still undercosted for what it gets.

I'd argue it is barely undercosted. At base, it is only tough. IMO, of course.

Really, just jacking up the price of the ia (say +25-30 points, maybe more), and making the HBC like a tau vulcan mega bolter (so something like heavy 15) would fix the balence with it'self. Then just increase or decrease the cost of the chassis, depending on how well it does.

Tough AND fast. The exact same complaint that people are leveling at Wraiths.

niv-mizzet wrote:

LordBlades wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Riptides are beyond excellent, being amazingly tough, very shooty and has way too much synergy with markerlights as well. It also has a lot of utility and can adapt to any situation. Incoming grav bikers? Either pop 3++ or nova charge IA and nuke them to tiny bits with your cover-ignoring high-BS AP2 pieplate.

Deleting foot marines who pay very dearly for their T4 3+ without even granting them the mercy of cover is evil.

T6 W5 2+/5++/5+++ on a JSJ platform is also evil.

The Riptide is not the only thing in 40K that is way too strong. Far from it. But it still deserves the nerfhammer, and deserves it hard.

How does the bike squad example work in practice, assuming by 'grav bikers' you mean Command squad and not the bike squad with their lone grav gun:
You shoot, you pass Gets Hot!, blast doesn't scatter,so you hit let's say 4 bikers ( realistically it will most often be 3 with proper spacing). The guy up front with the Storm Shield (captain or Chapter Master)takes the let's say 4 wounds (again we assume no 1 was rolled for to Wound, blocks 2/3 on his 3++. Congrats! You have just done 1.25 wounds to a grav bike squad. If he has no Apothecary that is.

Next round your Riptide us eating 12 grav shots, possibly with Perfect Timing if he allied in a Rune Priest like most bikestars seem.to do nowadays.

Also, the facr that Tac Squads pay 'very dearly' for 3+ and t4 is one of the reasons they're terrible troops.

So bike command squads with grav guns come with free storm shield chapter masters now? I must have missed that, because I still see the cost in the book as "way higher than a riptide." That's one of the few units that can actually defend itself from the IA...which is why you (the tau player) should just shoot it with different units until the CM drops from weight of fire. Just because you can find super expensive units here and there that the tide doesn't point-click-delete doesn't mean it's not overpowered. It just means the situation COULD be worse.

Really I think the markerlight's ignore cover ability needs to be nerfed back to -1 per light, maybe -1 per 2 lights, or add in that anything over middling strength cannot benefit from the ignore cover effect. Beyond weak incendiary blasts and short range flamers, I don't think anything short of 6-on-the-D should flat out ignore cover. It removes terrain as a basic function of the game. And yes, this includes serpent shields and anything else that randomly has ignore cover without being some obviously weaker incendiary type weapon. Even the DK heavy incinerator pushes the limits of what I would allow to have ignore cover if I were responsible for the rules.

It's just that I have yet to see somebody whonwasn't either new, bad or playing casually (none of which are good measures for balance) run a bike command squafd without a Storm Shield im frot. It's just dumb.

IMO, as long as Jink mechanics exist, Ignore Cover (Tau or otherwise) should stay right there.
Once you get rid of Skimmers and bikes granting themselves 3-4+ in the middle of an open field I 100% agree the game would get better by gettong rid of most Ignore Cover.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

Remove the storm shield save, and you now have 4 dead bikers instead - pretty much the whole squad.

Actually, that would be just ~2 dead bikers because of their cover saves. Because, y'know, the Riptide doesn't ignore cover saves all by itself.

If they jink they cripple their return fire so it's fine.

They will just charge the Riptide, Hit&Run out of combat in the next assault phase and shoot it to death then. Or lock it in close-combat forever - your choice.

 Ashiraya wrote:

Plus, you rarely let your Riptide go unmarkerlighted.

You even more rarely deploy gravbikers without that storm shield chapter master.

Off on a different tangent for a moment, I went back to that "top 10 units in the game" thread to do some counting.
Of the 15 top 10 units lists various people posted, the riptide is on 9 of them. That's very telling to me. I didn't count the recurrence rate of other things, but offhand I'd bet only the serpent appears on more of them.

And yes, I hate that jink is mixed up in the cover category. It should have its own save type to get it away from the "using terrain effectively" save.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

Remove the storm shield save, and you now have 4 dead bikers instead - pretty much the whole squad.

Actually, that would be just ~2 dead bikers because of their cover saves. Because, y'know, the Riptide doesn't ignore cover saves all by itself.

If they jink they cripple their return fire so it's fine.

They will just charge the Riptide, Hit&Run out of combat in the next assault phase and shoot it to death then. Or lock it in close-combat forever - your choice.

 Ashiraya wrote:

Plus, you rarely let your Riptide go unmarkerlighted.

You even more rarely deploy gravbikers without that storm shield chapter master.

Which costs more than the riptide by himself. You don't see a tactical issue with putting a shield on a unit that costs more than the unit you're shielding against? I do. It means they have more army than you elsewhere.