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 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:
Not so much deliberately cheating as "hadn't played in 3 years" I think. The guy's not a dedicated 40k player.

But, hey it worked. It's better they can't charge anyway, what do you want, a point and click solution? You can get about 4 units of scout bikes for the cost of a Riptide. I'm sure you can find some way of achieving the same effect through your actions on the table.

You mean a point and click solution like the Riptide or Centstar? No, BA don't have those.

Such a thing does not exist...the best unit in the game to kill a riptide is a dreadknight. Thats why you see so much dread knight hate from tau - it's literally the only thing that ever drops their precious riptides and also Imperial knights and wraith knights. Though an imperial knight or a WK should never assault a tide if the tau has any idea how to deploy his army. DK kinda don't care about that. cause in 2 turns their threat range for assault is an astounding 54" which is ALMOST as far as a riptide can shoot you from. lol.

How is the dreadknight good at killing the Riptide?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I think the real problem here seems to be that BA are bad.

But I can still manage to make a mess out of DKs, even if I don't win. Funny that.

Boniface wrote:
Think yourself lucky it's only the riptide in Tau. I hear Necrons are, as a collective, impossible to kill.

IA riptides make warriors disappear. Just as easy as marines. The 20 man blobs make it even easier.

To be honest I think 40k is bad lately.
Let's analyse.
Chaos turn up and are rubbish
DA turn up and are rubbish
Tau turn up and are OP
Eldar turn up and are more OP
Marines Turn up and have new OP guns because of Tau and Eldar
Space wolves turn up with newer OP guns, flyers (which totally doesn't make sense) and a number of other OP things.
Meanwhile IG get a rename and get much of the same.
GW realise IoM should be OP and make them one big army
IoM is too OP
Necrons released to counter by being OPest and unkillable and buffed everything.
Next Tau... Get more OP to count OP everything or nerfed because... Reasons.

Just seems a recipe for BS to me.

Martel732 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:
Not so much deliberately cheating as "hadn't played in 3 years" I think. The guy's not a dedicated 40k player.

But, hey it worked. It's better they can't charge anyway, what do you want, a point and click solution? You can get about 4 units of scout bikes for the cost of a Riptide. I'm sure you can find some way of achieving the same effect through your actions on the table.

You mean a point and click solution like the Riptide or Centstar? No, BA don't have those.

Such a thing does not exist...the best unit in the game to kill a riptide is a dreadknight. Thats why you see so much dread knight hate from tau - it's literally the only thing that ever drops their precious riptides and also Imperial knights and wraith knights. Though an imperial knight or a WK should never assault a tide if the tau has any idea how to deploy his army. DK kinda don't care about that. cause in 2 turns their threat range for assault is an astounding 54" which is ALMOST as far as a riptide can shoot you from. lol.

How is the dreadknight good at killing the Riptide?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I think the real problem here seems to be that BA are bad.

But I can still manage to make a mess out of DKs, even if I don't win. Funny that.

First turn shunt and pray to the emperor. You must be bold to kill the tau. I throw 80% of my army into their face turn 1. Shunting into ruins ofc - whilst laying 3 flame templates on pathfinders - no more marker lights. Then assault whichever riptides are in range next turn. Once it is in CC the job is pretty easy - activate force power and wait for him to fail a 3+ 5+ or even better fail a nova. Works even better if I get into the fray warlord trait so I can place a precision (reroll first turn auto deepstrike) cleansing flame from my libraian to wipe out most his fire warriors on turn 1. Killing tau is what GK are made to do - Deamons though - they wreck. me fancy that.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Boniface wrote:
Think yourself lucky it's only the riptide in Tau. I hear Necrons are, as a collective, impossible to kill.

IA riptides make warriors disappear. Just as easy as marines. The 20 man blobs make it even easier.

Not sure if this is sarcasm or not.

Boniface wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Boniface wrote:
Think yourself lucky it's only the riptide in Tau. I hear Necrons are, as a collective, impossible to kill.

IA riptides make warriors disappear. Just as easy as marines. The 20 man blobs make it even easier.

Not sure if this is sarcasm or not.

nah I'm serious - more models makes pie plates easier to land. Str 8 = no FNP. Just kill the spider first - easy money.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Boniface wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Boniface wrote:
Think yourself lucky it's only the riptide in Tau. I hear Necrons are, as a collective, impossible to kill.

IA riptides make warriors disappear. Just as easy as marines. The 20 man blobs make it even easier.

Not sure if this is sarcasm or not.

nah I'm serious - more models makes pie plates easier to land. Str 8 = no FNP. Just kill the spider first - easy money.

but they don't have feel no pain, they have reanimation, which is the same thing, but better because you can't double them out

IA riptides will make warriors disappear, albeit not quite as fast as marines.

With a chronometron cryptek, on the other hand...

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

Yoyoyo wrote:
Not so much deliberately cheating as "hadn't played in 3 years" I think. The guy's not a dedicated 40k player.

But, hey it worked. It's better they can't charge anyway, what do you want, a point and click solution? You can get about 4 units of scout bikes for the cost of a Riptide. I'm sure you can find some way of achieving the same effect through your actions on the table.

You mean a point and click solution like the Riptide or Centstar? No, BA don't have those.

Such a thing does not exist...the best unit in the game to kill a riptide is a dreadknight. Thats why you see so much dread knight hate from tau - it's literally the only thing that ever drops their precious riptides and also Imperial knights and wraith knights. Though an imperial knight or a WK should never assault a tide if the tau has any idea how to deploy his army. DK kinda don't care about that. cause in 2 turns their threat range for assault is an astounding 54" which is ALMOST as far as a riptide can shoot you from. lol.

How is the dreadknight good at killing the Riptide?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I think the real problem here seems to be that BA are bad.

But I can still manage to make a mess out of DKs, even if I don't win. Funny that.

First turn shunt and pray to the emperor. You must be bold to kill the tau. I throw 80% of my army into their face turn 1. Shunting into ruins ofc - whilst laying 3 flame templates on pathfinders - no more marker lights. Then assault whichever riptides are in range next turn. Once it is in CC the job is pretty easy - activate force power and wait for him to fail a 3+ 5+ or even better fail a nova. Works even better if I get into the fray warlord trait so I can place a precision (reroll first turn auto deepstrike) cleansing flame from my libraian to wipe out most his fire warriors on turn 1. Killing tau is what GK are made to do - Deamons though - they wreck. me fancy that.

So the counter to the mighty Tau is the zerg rush with shunt?

Martel732 wrote:
A relic jump pack. Deep striking jump packs is suicide even with the relic. DS jump packs weren't even good in 5th.

Fast vehicles that also can't hurt the Riptide? Fast vehicles that get HPed out trivially by broadsides? THOSE fast vehicles?

DS is suicide for everyone, not just BA. The idea is always to put out enough hurt that it's worth it.

You have FA Rhinos, one Broadside team will need to kill almost 5x to earn it's points back. You could literally spend the entire game driving over them forcing LD tests until they run off the board. And that's a straight-up troll solution, I'm sure you can think of something better given your experience and judgement, right?

Yoyoyo wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
A relic jump pack. Deep striking jump packs is suicide even with the relic. DS jump packs weren't even good in 5th.

Fast vehicles that also can't hurt the Riptide? Fast vehicles that get HPed out trivially by broadsides? THOSE fast vehicles?

DS is suicide for everyone, not just BA. The idea is always to put out enough hurt that it's worth it.

You have FA Rhinos, one Broadside team will need to kill almost 5x to earn it's points back. You could literally spend the entire game driving over them forcing LD tests until they run off the board. And that's a straight-up troll solution, I'm sure you can think of something better given your experience and judgement, right?

That's assuming the Tau player put nothing between myself and the broadsides.

I still maintain that suiciding expensive models is not the path to victory. There is certainly nothing in the BA codex that can put the hurt on a Riptide enough to justify the attempt. Maybe combi-plasma sternguard, but I don't use those. The firepower density of marines is just not that good without grav.

You're still thinking firepower. Why? You have two Psychic Powers, one that forces a LD test at -2 and another that gets you 12" of movement in the Psychic Phase. You have a cheap relic that counters Interception. You have Fast Vehicles that can be conferred Scout, T5 Bikes with Jink, an army that's completely oriented towards assault.... and you want to shoot it out against *Tau* of all armies?

How on earth do think you can possibly match them in ranged firepower?

Yoyoyo wrote:
You're still thinking firepower. Why? You have two Psychic Powers, one that forces a LD test at -2 and another that gets you 12" of movement in the Psychic Phase. You have a cheap relic that counters Interception. You have Fast Vehicles that can be conferred Scout, T5 Bikes with Jink, an army that's completely oriented towards assault.... and you want to shoot it out against *Tau* of all armies?

How on earth do think you can possibly match them in ranged firepower?

Because this is a shooting edition and none of the things you mentioned will make it to HTH against Tau if I can't silence at least some of their guns. Firepower density is what allows centstars to be top notch. Not some assault gimmick.

If you use the 12" psychic movement power, you can't assault. So there's that one turn delay again.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I think the real problem here seems to be that BA are bad.

Yeah well my CSM don't do very good against riptides either!

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I think the real problem here seems to be that BA are bad.

Yeah well my CSM don't do very good against riptides either!

I imagine CSM aren't loving Tau, either.

Martel732 wrote:
If you use the 12" psychic movement power, you can't assault. So there's that one turn delay again.

Wasn't thinking assault. It lets you drop out of LOS then get into Plasma RF range.

Martel732 wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
I think the real problem here seems to be that BA are bad.

Yeah well my CSM don't do very good against riptides either!

I imagine CSM aren't loving Tau, either.

Have you tried footslogging a Khorne Chosen list against a Tau player?

You basically get tabled without killing as much as a single Fire Warrior.

dont worry guys this game is fine

Yoyoyo wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
If you use the 12" psychic movement power, you can't assault. So there's that one turn delay again.

Wasn't thinking assault. It lets you drop out of LOS then get into Plasma RF range.

But it only affects one squad. What BA squad has enough plasma to matter? Only a 300-pt combi-plas Sternguard, which I don't use. Again, firepower density. If I were moving Gravcents into range, it would matter. The fact that I need dozens of AP 2 shots to bring down the Riptide is why I say the base chassis is undercosted. Once you start looking into what a list like BA has to do to even TRY to kill it, it becomes very discouraging. I'm almost forced to ignore it and let it shoot me all game. If there are more than two, they don't need marker light support, they'll just win by rolling enough "hits" over the course of them game.

The worst part is that those that survive still have to hand to hand down multiple Riptides if they can even catch them.

1-2 trilas predators or even razorbacks give broadsides a serious headache.

Focusing 3-4 lascannons on a broadside team forces you to goto ground or risk losing half of the squad.

LordBlades wrote:
1-2 trilas predators or even razorbacks give broadsides a serious headache.

Focusing 3-4 lascannons on a broadside team forces you to goto ground or risk losing half of the squad.

I can do things to Broadsides. They have a 36' range, they are slow, and are T4. I never had anything to say about Broadsides other than they kill AV 11 super good. But while I'm doing those things to broadsides, I'm losing huge chunks of my list.

Martel732 wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
1-2 trilas predators or even razorbacks give broadsides a serious headache.

Focusing 3-4 lascannons on a broadside team forces you to goto ground or risk losing half of the squad.

I can do things to Broadsides. They have a 36' range, they are slow, and are T4. I never had anything to say about Broadsides other than they kill AV 11 super good. But while I'm doing those things to broadsides, I'm losing huge chunks of my list.

If you clear his Broadsides quickly what is he blowing up your transports with?

LordBlades wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
1-2 trilas predators or even razorbacks give broadsides a serious headache.

Focusing 3-4 lascannons on a broadside team forces you to goto ground or risk losing half of the squad.

I can do things to Broadsides. They have a 36' range, they are slow, and are T4. I never had anything to say about Broadsides other than they kill AV 11 super good. But while I'm doing those things to broadsides, I'm losing huge chunks of my list.

If you clear his Broadsides quickly what is he blowing up your transports with?

I understand this in theory, but it never seems to work out like that. It doesn't help that firewarriors can glance out AV 11. If I list tailored three drop fragnoughts with deathwind launchers, I could clear every Tau foot troop, but that's list tailoring.

I don't think a true TAC list is viable these days to be honest.

There are far too many things in the game build as hard counters to each other (seemingly).

For example, you could try and build an army to take on Tau and get stomped by Necrons or Eldar.

I genuinely have tried to make a TAC list with my Tau and always come up short in some area.

Its partially why people end up spamming things that can do everything (or close to it) i.e. waveserpent, Riptide, TWC etc.

To the OP

office_waaagh wrote:
I show up with a monster of an Ork list and everyone is happy even when they get ground into the dirt. I tabled a dude turn 3 and he had a blast. It seems that the orks are always popular when they show up, and despite the possibility for some absolutely killer lists and combos they don't get much hate.

So whats the Ork list you run?

Martel732 wrote:
I understand this in theory, but it never seems to work out like that. It doesn't help that firewarriors can glance out AV 11. If I list tailored three drop fragnoughts with deathwind launchers, I could clear every Tau foot troop, but that's list tailoring.

Fair enough, but keep in mind if you lack the resources to deal efficiently with T3 4+ infantry, your list has probably simply been tailored in another direction.

LordBlades wrote:
1-2 trilas predators or even razorbacks give broadsides a serious headache.

Focusing 3-4 lascannons on a broadside team forces you to goto ground or risk losing half of the squad.

Yeah...those sheild drones aren't getting in the way at all.

 Xenomancers wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
1-2 trilas predators or even razorbacks give broadsides a serious headache.

Focusing 3-4 lascannons on a broadside team forces you to goto ground or risk losing half of the squad.

Yeah...those sheild drones aren't getting in the way at all.

Can they have shield drones AND missile drones?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Yoyoyo wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
I understand this in theory, but it never seems to work out like that. It doesn't help that firewarriors can glance out AV 11. If I list tailored three drop fragnoughts with deathwind launchers, I could clear every Tau foot troop, but that's list tailoring.

Fair enough, but keep in mind if you lack the resources to deal efficiently with T3 4+ infantry, your list has probably simply been tailored in another direction.

BA have been known to punch out T3 4+ infantry from time to time. I try to reserve my shooting for things I can't punch out. Despite all the free gear and stats on marines, I still feel like Tau are getting better value/pt spent.

Each Broadside can have up to two drones- Gun, Marker, Missile, Shield. If you are fielding two Broadsides, it could be fun to have a Marker Drone, Missile Drone, and two Shield Drones. They don't cost that much. They add to the unit size though, so be prepared for LD tests when you start losing a couple of them. Just be sure to take the Bonding Knife for the Broadsides.

The Riptide is the "Easy Button" for Tau. The Tau list that scares me is the list with two units of Missile Broadsides.

The Broadside seems like a much more interesting unit with more options and real decisions to be made. Unlike another unit we are discussing. I guess there's the decision of whether to take FNP or not.

 Xenomancers wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
1-2 trilas predators or even razorbacks give broadsides a serious headache.

Focusing 3-4 lascannons on a broadside team forces you to goto ground or risk losing half of the squad.

Yeah...those sheild drones aren't getting in the way at all.

If the Tau codex layer fields shield drones, he's practically spwnding points to make it easier for you.to chase his broadsides off the board via Ld checks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
The Broadside seems like a much more interesting unit with more options and real decisions to be made. Unlike another unit we are discussing. I guess there's the decision of whether to take FNP or not.

IMO the only real decision.regarding broadsides is 'how many'