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 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
"Escort Starfighter" 2pt, E-wing title.
At the start of the combat phase, you may spend an evade token. If you do, assign an evade token to a friendly ship with a higher pilot skill at range 1.

I think the problem here is that there's the difficult question of what ships are worth spending that much to support*. Is it really worth spending 29 points to keep Wedge alive longer, instead of just spending 29 points to buy another Wedge-equivalent ship? Meanwhile the high point cost of the e-wing gives it a high chance of being the most valuable ship in your list, which means you want to spend those evade tokens on defending itself instead of its friends.

*This is a major problem with Biggs, and why he sees a lot less tournament use after the initial excitement over "Wedge will live forever!!!!". It takes a specific kind of strategy to make Biggs effective, and it very often involves protecting generic pilots, not aces.

I think this may be something. If we think of these changes as being an Aces pack, there would be lots of space (in rulebook space, and added toys) to somehow extend their range. If we added a mini-ruler, representing Range 4-5, and a connector piece, and some sort of rules to use it, this would actually be easy to do.

This has been suggested, but has two problems:

1) Getting the necessary components. The longer range ruler for epic ships doesn't fit in "normal" boxes, so now you need to change the packaging and that's (presumably) going to cost more. And it puts a huge constraint on the available design space, since every single range 4-5 ability you're ever going to make for "normal" games has to come in that one box. You can't publish new single-ship expansions that have range 4-5 abilities because they won't come with the required ruler.

2) The turn 1 alpha strike. Epic games can reduce the problem a bit because the table is larger, but that's not an option in a normal game. You're almost guaranteed to get turn-1 shots, and there's nowhere to hide from a missile ship. It's not inherently impossible to balance, but it has a very high potential for creating frustrating games. And I don't think it's really worth taking that risk when there are other options available.

And the results are in...



And basically, it's a BOGOF. Admittedly, one that can't be used on X-Wings and the like...

Saw it earlier, a bit underwhelmed tbh. If it was a 1 point upgrade itd be good, if it was free it would be great (and considering it takes up a weapons slot it would still technically have a cost even if it was 0 points), but 2 points on top of whats already considered a generally overpriced upgrade is a bit much, plus the munitions failsafe which is almost mandatory, and the points really rack up fast, especially wince to maximize its worth you would have to take multiple secondaries, at that point youre lookin at like 20 pts in upgrades for whats really not all that great a return. Further, while this does help the new ships coming out, as well as the TIE Bomber, it does little for the Y-Wing or B-Wing (I still dont see the investment into torpedos being worth it for either of them given the other options available), and absolutely nothing for most of the other existing ships with secondaries.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Further, while this does help the new ships coming out, as well as the TIE Bomber, it does little for the Y-Wing or B-Wing (I still dont see the investment into torpedos being worth it for either of them given the other options available)

It does just enough. Most y-wings and b-wings are pretty good right now, the only ones with problems are Horton Salm, Drea Renthal, and Nera Dantels. Their abilities require torps to be effective, but taking a double load of them costs a lot of points. Now you can take two proton torpedoes for 6 points, two ion torpedoes for 7, or two APTs for 8. That's a 2-point discount, a 3-point discount, and a 4-point discount. It's not game-changing, but it's a nice upgrade to something you're forced to take anyway with those pilots. And we still haven't seen the new weapons.

Also, note that it works for bombs. Dual bombs on a y-wing is a nice option to have.

 Peregrine wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Further, while this does help the new ships coming out, as well as the TIE Bomber, it does little for the Y-Wing or B-Wing (I still dont see the investment into torpedos being worth it for either of them given the other options available)

It does just enough. Most y-wings and b-wings are pretty good right now, the only ones with problems are Horton Salm, Drea Renthal, and Nera Dantels. Their abilities require torps to be effective, but taking a double load of them costs a lot of points. Now you can take two proton torpedoes for 6 points, two ion torpedoes for 7, or two APTs for 8. That's a 2-point discount, a 3-point discount, and a 4-point discount. It's not game-changing, but it's a nice upgrade to something you're forced to take anyway with those pilots. And we still haven't seen the new weapons.

Also, note that it works for bombs. Dual bombs on a y-wing is a nice option to have.

Double Proton Bomb Genius FTW

OMG slave 1 title might actually be useful now. Double Proximity Mine or Seismic Charge and double Cluster or Concussion Missiles. I doubt Homing Missiles will still ever see use. but Scum Boba Fett might actually have a reason to fly his own ship now

I might start trying Emon with the Slave 1 title instead of the Andrasta title. He can get a couple of proton bombs for a cool 7pts, and a couple of missiles if he wants to spend a few more.

A friend of mine and I came up with something that might make ordnance a little more usable on some ships. An astromech that allows the action to be held until the end of the activation phase. It would allow low PS ships to get good locks on targets. It would also buff low PS ewings, letting them potentially barrel roll out of arc after the high PS models moved.

 bocatt wrote:
OMG slave 1 title might actually be useful now. Double Proximity Mine or Seismic Charge and double Cluster or Concussion Missiles. I doubt Homing Missiles will still ever see use. but Scum Boba Fett might actually have a reason to fly his own ship now

What's wrong with Homing Missiles? You still get the rerolls from the TLoc , they don't getevade rolls/tokens, with Pred or Opportunist, that ship could take quite a bit of damage

Henshini wrote:A friend of mine and I came up with something that might make ordnance a little more usable on some ships. An astromech that allows the action to be held until the end of the activation phase. It would allow low PS ships to get good locks on targets. It would also buff low PS ewings, letting them potentially barrel roll out of arc after the high PS models moved.

Problem is, you just made PS1 better than PS9. Now, you get to move first (and so can't be blocked and can block enemy ships), but get all the benefit of having a high PS when it comes to actions. Now, if it was restricted to target lock/focus/evade, it might not be that bad, but it should not be usable for boost/barrel roll/SLAM.

buckero0 wrote:

 bocatt wrote:
OMG slave 1 title might actually be useful now. Double Proximity Mine or Seismic Charge and double Cluster or Concussion Missiles. I doubt Homing Missiles will still ever see use. but Scum Boba Fett might actually have a reason to fly his own ship now

What's wrong with Homing Missiles? You still get the rerolls from the TLoc , they don't get evade rolls/tokens, with Pred or Opportunist, that ship could take quite a bit of damage

You still get evade rolls. You just can't spend evade tokens. The real problem with homing missiles is that they are an expensive one-shot weapon, without the utility of assault/Ion Pulse Missiles.

I don't think that card alone is going to change my mind on ordnance ships, but we'll see.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

Henshini wrote:A friend of mine and I came up with something that might make ordnance a little more usable on some ships. An astromech that allows the action to be held until the end of the activation phase. It would allow low PS ships to get good locks on targets. It would also buff low PS ewings, letting them potentially barrel roll out of arc after the high PS models moved.

Problem is, you just made PS1 better than PS9. Now, you get to move first (and so can't be blocked and can block enemy ships), but get all the benefit of having a high PS when it comes to actions. Now, if it was restricted to target lock/focus/evade, it might not be that bad, but it should not be usable for boost/barrel roll/SLAM.

High PS will still get to shoot first, low PS might be dead before it even gets to shoot, same as always. It could easily be limited to target lock, but I thought it might be a neat way to make e-wings less overcosted.

Henshini wrote:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

Henshini wrote:A friend of mine and I came up with something that might make ordnance a little more usable on some ships. An astromech that allows the action to be held until the end of the activation phase. It would allow low PS ships to get good locks on targets. It would also buff low PS ewings, letting them potentially barrel roll out of arc after the high PS models moved.

Problem is, you just made PS1 better than PS9. Now, you get to move first (and so can't be blocked and can block enemy ships), but get all the benefit of having a high PS when it comes to actions. Now, if it was restricted to target lock/focus/evade, it might not be that bad, but it should not be usable for boost/barrel roll/SLAM.

High PS will still get to shoot first, low PS might be dead before it even gets to shoot, same as always. It could easily be limited to target lock, but I thought it might be a neat way to make e-wings less overcosted.

Low PS isn't dead if it barrel rolls. This is like high-PS cloak, in that you respond to everything else, except there is no counter except for this one Astromech.

Which is kind of harsh because astromechs are rebel only.

Plus, making the answer to making a generic pilot work is not going to be issuing a limited item, because (a) people field the generics because they're cheap and aren't inclined to lavish upgrades on them, and (b) if you're putting a unique upgrade on a generic pilot, it's effectively not a generic pilot anymore.

I like the upgrade. As noted, it's not the best thing going, but it does make true bombers - i.e. ships with multiple ordnance slots - better. I'm personally thinking cluster missiles might be a good one to focus down on - I'm a big fan of them as they're range 1-2 ordnance; they let you use bombers much more effectively.

Obvious fix for the X-wing would be a T-65 Incom title, though what should go on it I don't know.

Maybe "Add one ordinance counter to equipped torpedo. Add additional Hit to die pool for every Crit result when making a secondary weapon attack."

Which would give it additional torpedoes and simultaneously buff Proton Torpedoes.

Maybe just have the title give a discount for equipping astromechs and/or torpedoes.

RogueRegault wrote:
Obvious fix for the X-wing would be a T-65 Incom title, though what should go on it I don't know.

Maybe "Add one ordinance counter to equipped torpedo. Add additional Hit to die pool for every Crit result when making a secondary weapon attack."

Which would give it additional torpedoes and simultaneously buff Proton Torpedoes.

Maybe just have the title give a discount for equipping astromechs and/or torpedoes.

Problem with the torpedo upgrade is that it runs into the same problem as the E-wing. You are talking proton torps minimum (to exploit the Crit effect). Plus, you've basically got the extra munitions thing built in, so that's+2pt for the upgrade itself minimum. You are now at 27pt for a Rookie. Same as an E-wing, but with the same old X-wing defenses.

Came up with two new Astromechs.

"Evasion" Astromech- 1pt
Add the [Evade] action to your action bar.

Based off of the Millennium Falcon title. It gives the X-wing something that the B-wing can't do. Unlike a single evade die bonus, this gives the X-wing a substantial defense boost over the B-wing, although at the cost of offensive actions. It also buffs non-R3-A2 Y-wings. Doesn't do anything for the E-wing, unfortunately.

"Maneuver" Astromech- 2pt?
After revealing a green maneuver, you may rotate your maneuver dial to another green maneuver. Treat this maneuver as a white maneuver.

A weaker "Stay on Target", with fewer drawbacks. Help your high-PS X- and E- Wings respond to opponents maneuvers.

One real issue is that Focus is too good. It does everything.

Mathematically, it's equal to target lock in terms of 'hitting' a target, though TL has a potential to crit and carries over.

Evade is worse on anything but a 1-agility ship. I literally only ever Evade if I have 2 actions from PTL or Vader or something.

Alas, the issue is while X-Wing has great pilots, it needs a maneuver option that's ideally NOT Barrel Roll or Boost. Which don't exist in the game space. If only they could Stay on Target like above, that'd be great.

I don't see an astromech that'd really 'fix' them as a general class of ship.