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Kilkrazy wrote:In GW's case having a profit margin of 10% and a cost of goods of 25% they cannot afford to carry much overstock in the hope of selling some more units to avoid leaving money on the table, because a relatively small unsold stock eats into the overall profit margin quite considerably.

No, but there's all sorts of methods they could employ to better estimate demand. Selling out within hours, and people complaining they couldn't get one suggests they haven't got it right. Equally, there's a very real chance they've only allocated X to the webstore, and will send stock out to stores, only for those not to be distributed in line with demand, leaving, again, unfulfilled demand. Either way, it's poor stock management.

Toofast wrote:If they, I don't know, maybe communicated with their customers, did market research and didn't keep us in the dark about new releases until 0 hours, they could predict how many they would sell. Instead, they make everything so limited that 75% of the people who wanted it can't get it. That's not good business, and their yearly financial report shows just what their customer base thinks of their business practices. Oh well, back to painting my cryx.

Yet, conversely, there was such strong feeling when Black Library did LE books this way that they changed and made the books a limited time, rather than limited number, availability and then everyone is happy. Yet another example of the subsidiaries showing Pappa GW how it's done I suppose.

 Azreal13 wrote:
While not wanting to come across as blaming the victim, which is absolutely not what I believe, it is the consumer that's rewarding this behaviour by buying them in this case.

To be fair, at a guesstimate GW probably have 500,000 to 1,000,000 potential customers, how many of these things are they actually making? A few hundred? a couple of thousand at most? It's a tiny subset of the customer base. It's hard to blame the customer for doing the buying when it's only 1 in 100 customers who are actually doing the buying.

Somewhere in the region of 1000000 seems about right, perhaps a little pessimistic, that'd be a little over £100 a year average spend, which probably averages out those who buy a few paints to those who habitually buy every release.

I wasn't just including those people though, there's also the "I know that buying a hideously overpriced LE codex is a ridiculous waste of money, but because they've done it for my faction, I couldn't help it" crowd, as well as the "this new model is hideous, so I'll just buy two" club and the "I don't like this model, but if I spend another £X on a variety of other kits, I can convert it to look distinctly OK" society.

I know you'll have seen these sorts of posts, and until they're all inducted into the "this is poor, I won't be buying it" association then this situation will repeat itself.

I may be missing something here, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but having just checked the GW site again the Promethium pipeline appears NOT to be in the same bracket as the Plasma annihilator, I.e while stocks last (not quite the same as a limited edition to my mind but that's a different argument). Anyway, my point being: does this mean that the pipelines, like other 40k terrain kits are here to stay? If so, then I agree it's pretty stupid to have made the annihilator limited unless they plan to produce/release more in the future, on the basis I can see waaaaaay more people wanting that than the pipes...

Mind you, I'm the type of sad git that was drooling over the Gorgonum Purgamentorum display more than anything else in the latest WD, and wondering how much I (can't) afford to spend on spiky pipes....

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Besides, isn't one of the primary purposes of pre-ordering to determine how much product you will need to produce to meet demand?.

Not when you're only allowing a week between pre-order and release date, no.

Mind you, in that situation I'm not entirely sure just what the point of the pre-order is...

 insaniak wrote:
Mind you, in that situation I'm not entirely sure just what the point of the pre-order is...

To get people to commit their money before they can decide they don't want the new thing after all. Even GW can't stop leaks until release day, and the last thing they want is for people to see pictures of the new stuff and then lose their initial enthusiasm before they hand over their credit cards.

Not being able to buy a Plasma Obliterator does agitate the hell out of me.

 Peregrine wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Mind you, in that situation I'm not entirely sure just what the point of the pre-order is...

To get people to commit their money before they can decide they don't want the new thing after all. Even GW can't stop leaks until release day, and the last thing they want is for people to see pictures of the new stuff and then lose their initial enthusiasm before they hand over their credit cards.

Don't know about you filthy colonials, but at no point would GW be legally able to not allow someone to cancel a pre order, in fact, if placed through the website then you'd be entitled to 14 days after receipt of the goods to return them, as long as you'd not built and painted it.

So pre orders don't even fulfil that.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Don't know about you filthy colonials, but at no point would GW be legally able to not allow someone to cancel a pre order, in fact, if placed through the website then you'd be entitled to 14 days after receipt of the goods to return them, as long as you'd not built and painted it.

So pre orders don't even fulfil that.

Sure, but canceling an order or sending back a product you don't want takes effort. Once you place your pre-order the inertia is now on doing nothing and waiting until your new toy arrives. So yeah, if you have a sudden financial crisis and need the money back you're going to cancel your pre-order, but are you going to cancel it if you just lose a bit of enthusiasm once the "wow new stuff" factor wears off? Are you even going to think about evaluating your purchase decision again before the box arrives? I think the more likely scenario is that you press "buy now" and don't really think about it again until you realize it's a month later and you still haven't even taken the new kit out of the box.

On the other hand, if you don't have pre-orders available as soon as your customers see the new releases the inertia is on doing nothing and not buying. After the initial enthusiasm wears off you have to get your customers motivated to go back to the website/store and place an order. If the new kit doesn't look as interesting after you've had a week to think about it then it's very easy to just keep doing what you're already doing and not bother to buy one.

Given how ridiculously successful Kickstarter is, I don't understand why GW doesn't do a limited splash release, then offer some sort of 'Commit to Buy' button after stocks disappear. If enough people pony up a commitment to purchase, then they do another production run on the sprues.

Hell, they could do this entirely, not even risking the funds on limited release models. It could function as a 'pay up or shut up' system for Sisters fans (full disclaimer: not a SOB fan, but someone who would like to see them in production at GW for others). If something really couldn't generate preorders, then GW could honestly say that there wasn't sufficient demand for it.

Why the heck would you feature this stuff in your weekly magazine, when you were selling out of it before most people even could get the mag? What's the point of that wasted advertising space?

You're asking too many questions.

Please report to your nearest GW Center for a FineAdjustment.

The limited edition releases that always bothered me were the ones from Kingdom Death.

By the time I got the e-mail for the new models they would already be sold out.

I think maybe now that;s been corrected, but since I missed so many models I stopped trying.

i have to agree with this limited nonsense....

Being very busy i had no idea any special model was coming out. I went to check pre orders like i usually do and saw it there but when i clicked of course it was gone.

funny enough i got the email about being able to pre order it 8 hours after that.

Why not annouce far in advance that a limited model will be for sale? basically the way it is now only a select few (many of which are only going to resell) know about it. I am not even sure if retailers could get this thing.

What ever happened to the good old excuse of "molds are expensive to make so the prices are expensive to buy"?

Now we have had a few limited releases, so why spend all these "expensive molds" only to sell very little product?

So I guess making these molds really do not cost that much.

Davor wrote:
What ever happened to the good old excuse of "molds are expensive to make so the prices are expensive to buy"?

Now we have had a few limited releases, so why spend all these "expensive molds" only to sell very little product?

So I guess making these molds really do not cost that much.

Well yeah we can only assume something got cheaper somewhere. I don't think it was an excuse before... The molds were very very expensive.

That's more in the "no longer the case" camp than the "they told us lies" one.

Back in the day, sprue molds really were expensive, but nowadays GW possess both the staff and tech to make them in-house, plus the general cost has fallen overall, so it isn't as relevant as it was.

 Azreal13 wrote:
That's more in the "no longer the case" camp than the "they told us lies" one.

Back in the day, sprue molds really were expensive, but nowadays GW possess both the staff and tech to make them in-house, plus the general cost has fallen overall, so it isn't as relevant as it was.

That and if you wanted to make a limited edition plastic model you can also use a number of less expensive materials to make the tool from.

Yes, the tools don't last as long as steel but since it's a limited edition models with a smaller run you only need a tool that can last for that number of shots. Even fiber-filled resin tools can last (at least) up to 3,000 shots.

Yea, I'm pretty upset that I can't get one now. I saw the leaked images and thought one would go nicely with my Mechanicus army. I guess I'll never know.

PrehistoricUFO wrote:I bought three and plan to re-sell them for huge profit.

edited my snark comment of rage fueled jealousy.

It's funny that GW want people to buy White Dwarf and get their information direct from shops, but that due to their secrecy policies and short supply, people doing the right thing (by GW standards) will only ever hear about these releases after they're all gone! It's only the evil Internet forums discussing rumours who had enough info to stand a chance of buying them.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
It's funny that GW want people to buy White Dwarf and get their information direct from shops, but that due to their secrecy policies and short supply, people doing the right thing (by GW standards) will only ever hear about these releases after they're all gone! It's only the evil Internet forums discussing rumours who had enough info to stand a chance of buying them.

There is a thread in N&R about the fact that the timeframe for preorders is changing, sooo...

Soooo, it won't make any difference.

A 10am Pre order means nobody can buy a WD before the pre order opens anyway, as most GW stores open at 10am, plus, if you're out and about in a town, you're even less likely to be online doing some pre ordering.

From a GMT perspective, it will be functionally no different.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Soooo, it won't make any difference.

A 10am Pre order means nobody can buy a WD before the pre order opens anyway, as most GW stores open at 10am, plus, if you're out and about in a town, you're even less likely to be online doing some pre ordering.

From a GMT perspective, it will be functionally no different.

You're telling me you're not planning your life around GW releases? That's your problem right there, mate.

Pre-orders are a way for a company to gauge interest in a product. They get an idea of how many to produce and where to send their product. If one store sells a bunch of pre-orders then a company knows where to send the stock instead of guessing. Allowing only a week for pre-orders is ridiculous as it is a such a great tool.

As for limited editions, well they work for some people or businesses wouldn't keep making them. I mean, its a terrain piece. I never see people buying or using the fortifications in my area but all of a sudden this is limited release and everyone wants one. It stirs up hype. It gets people jumping on their website early in the morning to check it. it's a status piece for people with more money than brains.

If it bothers you don't buy it. Definitely don't buy them second hand on ebay ridiculously marked up. Let the people who buy them all up get stuck with them. Better yet, stop buying from GW all together and stop rewarding their madness.

Just a small point here but, molds are still expensive. A good mold is incredibly expensive but if you make it out of cheap material it will invariably be cheaper as you are knowingly designing a mold to only last X amount of time. I work with injection molding too, it can be cheap if your mold maker uses material that is just as cheap and not complicated to work over.

ye i just saw it after it sold out. They should give a week of warning before it goes for sale

We wrote:
Allowing only a week for pre-orders is ridiculous as it is a such a great tool.

Unless you have no confidence in the quality of your product. If you make a good product that your customers want then yes, having early pre-orders is a great idea. But I suspect GW is depending on the impulse buy because their products aren't good enough to sell on their own merits if their customers have some extra time to think about whether or not they really want the new thing. I'm sure they'd rather skip pre-orders entirely and have the new stuff go up for sale as soon as anyone knows it exists, but even GW can't shut down all of the leaks. GW's pre-orders are less of a useful business tool and more of a concession that a short pre-order period is better than having people see the new releases and not be able to commit their money at all.

As for limited editions, well they work for some people or businesses wouldn't keep making them. I mean, its a terrain piece. I never see people buying or using the fortifications in my area but all of a sudden this is limited release and everyone wants one. It stirs up hype. It gets people jumping on their website early in the morning to check it. it's a status piece for people with more money than brains.

And now many of those people buying them are buying them as a status symbol, compared to the people buying it because it has decent rules and they know there's no second chance to get it if they hesitate even a single day? GW could easily sell more of this kit (making more money in the long run) if they really wanted to, but instead they'd rather have immediate cash and the ability to tell the shareholders "our awesome stuff always sells out".

Yeah I don't see much change come from the new policy unfortunately.

 oni wrote:
Yea, I'm pretty upset that I can't get one now. I saw the leaked images and thought one would go nicely with my Mechanicus army. I guess I'll never know.

PrehistoricUFO wrote:I bought three and plan to re-sell them for huge profit.

edited my snark comment of rage fueled jealousy.

Honestly don't even trip over it bro. It's all sold out now or whatever, but you're more than likely going to be able to get them in stores because shops always have some stock allocated to them.

Just hit your GW as fast as possible, and like others have said there will be . . . alternate and cheaper ways to get an item very closely resembling this.

This Plasma Obliterator issue REALLY grinding me.

We wrote:
I mean, its a terrain piece. I never see people buying or using the fortifications in my area but all of a sudden this is limited release and everyone wants one. It stirs up hype. It gets people jumping on their website early in the morning to check it. it's a status piece for people with more money than brains.

Again this has to be kept in context of how many kits they actually made. Just because people in YOUR area don't buy or use terrain pieces doesn't mean NO ONE does and just because they sell out in 5 minutes doesn't mean EVERYONE wants one.

The amount of kits GW produces for limited runs, you probably only need 1 in every 100 people wanting one for it to sell out quickly and a lot of those people being disappointed.