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Still not feeling the Epirians, but then I prefer truescale anyway, will most likely proxy them if playing. They are nice enough minis, there's just a lot of choice out there for generic sci-fi humans at the moment.. if they were made 5-8 years ago they would be the best thing on the market. Some headswaps could really bring them to life I think. Would be great as Imperial Guard for 40k.

Karist minis are all looking amazing though!

They have a really cool "Brotherhood of Nod" vibe to them, and suit the look of a sci-fi religious cult perfectly.

The Karist troopers seem to be a better size/scale for human figures than the Epirians too, which are too close to the GW cadians for my liking.

Stormphoenix wrote:

Mymearan wrote:
To me it's the square cap that really put the Contractors over the top. Aside from the fact that they should be wearing helmets, the cap really reinforces the blockyness of their silhouette and makes them look so LEGO-ish. Look at the sergeant without the cap, he looks much better than the rest of them, but still has the same shoulderpads people have been lamenting. I really think rounded helmets would make them much more appealing.

You'll see why we went with the square hats when you put the Contractors up with the rest of the army, it makes them fit in really well.

Why did you just show the one Epirian unit when it takes two of them together to look good? Both Karist units look fine individually, but apparently the Epirian's shouldn't be photographed unless they have a fat friend to stand next to to make them look better...?

So, show us the robots that make the chaps look better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, those heads with scouters will be amazing for conversions.

Ooh, I love the pictures of the alternative colour schemes. I'd already started mulling over Karist themes - for some reason despite me hating purple, I started thinking of them in 2nd edition 40K genestealer colours. With yellow detailing like one of the characters in Neon Genesis Evangelion.

On a side note. For some reason, having read the fluff for the Epirians, I am now liking them more because they sound more and more like the NHS in the UK - "make do with what you got, you ain't getting anyone or anything new". I'm thinking a little mod work to make them have makeshift armour - bits of alien wreck tied on with string as chest armour. Grappling to survive in a role they weren't trained or equipped to deal with they just grab what they can find to protect themselves after seeing their mate getting shot to high heaven by some super-armoured religious nut who wants everyone to get swallowed up by an energy cloud!

The more I see of these miniatures, the more I like them, but the Karists will always be my favorites. (And I say that even though I intend to modify the "broken wrist" of the Tempests, which I'm not a fan of.)

I'll be there when this launches.

 Vermonter wrote:
The more I see of these miniatures, the more I like them, but the Karists will always be my favorites. (And I say that even though I intend to modify the "broken wrist" of the Tempests, which I'm not a fan of.)

I'll be there when this launches.

I thought I would be backing this but the more I see the models I more their flaws drive me nuts. I hope they get enough funding to pull a Prodos and resculpt their flawed models.

 AlexHolker wrote:

Stormphoenix wrote:
You'll see why we went with the square hats when you put the Contractors up with the rest of the army, it makes them fit in really well.

Why do people keep saying things like this as if it's a good thing? "You know those square hats you hate? Well expect to see a whole lot more like them in the rest of the army!"

You can't please everyone all the time. If they had been given propellor beanie caps someone would complain about that.

The positive point is that all the units in the army will have a clear linking design aesthetic, which is a recognition factor for a tabletop wargame army. To flip the argument, what would an army look like in which every single figure was utterly different to all of the others?

If people don't like the specific aesthetic that has been chosen, the rules are as I understand it totally playable with models from different manufacturers.

I really enjoy the Karist design, but less so their background - Twilight's Hammer Cult-esque fanatics are just not to my taste. I feel conflicted.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 AlexHolker wrote:

Stormphoenix wrote:
You'll see why we went with the square hats when you put the Contractors up with the rest of the army, it makes them fit in really well.

Why do people keep saying things like this as if it's a good thing? "You know those square hats you hate? Well expect to see a whole lot more like them in the rest of the army!"

If they had been given propellor beanie caps someone would complain about that.

I would certainly hope so!

 Ashiraya wrote:
I really enjoy the Karist design, but less so their background - Twilight's Hanmer Cult-esque fanatics are just not to my taste. I feel conflicted.

Their background is far too complex to get across in a single post or even a short series of posts as there are many layers of motivation and conflicting goals within the faction. I (obviously) highly recommend checking out the first novel to get a better feel for how they operate and their raison d'etre.

when do they go on sale?

 the clone wrote:
when do they go on sale?

First page, first post. Kickstarter around the end of this month (unless that has been revised since).

Yeah the Karist Kaddar priesthood is all about setting people up for conversion so they can train themselves to embrace the Maelstrom when it comes and ascend. The military wing/caste is a lot more hardline in terms of claiming objectives and stuff. I think both subfactions may answer to yet another group, whatever they have equivalent to a 'high command' that gives the overarching goals which the military will do what it takes to achieve so the priesthood can do the converting.

Its kind of a weird approach though. I guess the Epirian Foundation is part of the reason for the aggressive infiltration/invasion tactics, rather than turn the religious dudes away at the door they blow them up before they can knock.

They also seem pretty put off by the Epirian use of bots, I guess the highest level/most intricate/detail oriented bot tasks require a transfer of consciousness to the bot which is abhorrent to the Karists. Something about the division of mind/body or soul/body which should be intact and trained/harmonized to better accept the maelstrom.

I think that is one of the big design influences for both factions, or at least I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

The Epirians rely a lot on technology: bots, drones, terraforming, cybernetics, tranfering conciousness to control them, and in the book one person transferring their soul into a bot after they died so that they can live on. That devotion/reliance on technology and artificial lives could extend to the design of the models to show just how much the faction is part of the technology.

The Karists seem more in tune with nature, the angels are a natural weapon, their weapons use cybel energy instead of mechanical projectiles, their biggest ships are part rock. That connection to natural things could be visualized by the way the models, armor, and weapon all feature more natural curves instead of sharp angular features.

GrimDork wrote:Yeah the Karist Kaddar priesthood is all about setting people up for conversion so they can train themselves to embrace the Maelstrom when it comes and ascend. The military wing/caste is a lot more hardline in terms of claiming objectives and stuff. I think both subfactions may answer to yet another group, whatever they have equivalent to a 'high command' that gives the overarching goals which the military will do what it takes to achieve so the priesthood can do the converting.

Its kind of a weird approach though. I guess the Epirian Foundation is part of the reason for the aggressive infiltration/invasion tactics, rather than turn the religious dudes away at the door they blow them up before they can knock.

They also seem pretty put off by the Epirian use of bots, I guess the highest level/most intricate/detail oriented bot tasks require a transfer of consciousness to the bot which is abhorrent to the Karists. Something about the division of mind/body or soul/body which should be intact and trained/harmonized to better accept the maelstrom.

d-usa wrote:I think that is one of the big design influences for both factions, or at least I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

The Epirians rely a lot on technology: bots, drones, terraforming, cybernetics, tranfering conciousness to control them, and in the book one person transferring their soul into a bot after they died so that they can live on. That devotion/reliance on technology and artificial lives could extend to the design of the models to show just how much the faction is part of the technology.

The Karists seem more in tune with nature, the angels are a natural weapon, their weapons use cybel energy instead of mechanical projectiles, their biggest ships are part rock. That connection to natural things could be visualized by the way the models, armor, and weapon all feature more natural curves instead of sharp angular features.

I have to say guys, having spent three and a half years designing our universe to have the kind of subtleties and little details you're talking about, and then co-writing two novels to try and demonstrate that, it's incredibly satisfying to me to read this discussion. I'm really delighted that having read the novels and seen what we've released so far, you're picking up all the little hints and worldbuilding in the text and imagery that we've been working so hard to build. Thank you!

Thanks for writing cool books

I'm sure there's lots of good scifi out there but the covers and synopses tend to do squat for hooking me. Most I've taken a chance on just turn me off and I get buyers remorse. I bought the MEdge novels because of the tie-in but so far I'm quite enjoying them on their own and I'm glad of the purchase for once!

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The positive point is that all the units in the army will have a clear linking design aesthetic, which is a recognition factor for a tabletop wargame army. To flip the argument, what would an army look like in which every single figure was utterly different to all of the others?

An army should have a clear linking design aesthetic, sure, but it should be something that looks good in its own right. The features you decide should be omnipresent should be features we want to see more of.

 d-usa wrote:
The Epirians rely a lot on technology: bots, drones, terraforming, cybernetics, tranfering conciousness to control them, and in the book one person transferring their soul into a bot after they died so that they can live on.

Do they handle the subject more competently than Studio McVey did in Sedition Wars? It's an interesting subject, but it tends to be handled in a rather stupid manner.

Hey will any troop types in this game use riot shields? Ruleswise, I know cover is going to be a big deal, as is suppression, so I wondered if the type of man portable shielding used in riots, or close quarters ship boarding actions was likely to make any sort of appearance.

Truth be told though, I just have a special place in my heart for big shields I can level a gun over or through a gunport. Sooooo shielding? Any part of the cover mechanic?

 AlexHolker wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The positive point is that all the units in the army will have a clear linking design aesthetic, which is a recognition factor for a tabletop wargame army. To flip the argument, what would an army look like in which every single figure was utterly different to all of the others?

An army should have a clear linking design aesthetic, sure, but it should be something that looks good in its own right. The features you decide should be omnipresent should be features we want to see more of.

...

The point I want to make is that although you personally do not like the square hats, there will be other people who do. The designer would have been given a brief reflecting the ethos and identity that needs to be presented in the faction, and this is what he came up with. It cannot be all things to all men.

For example, I dislike the backwards bending banana magazines that Pan Oceanic troops have in Infinity, so I have not bought that faction although I like many other elements of their design. However they sell well.

I will check you guys at salute and see these minis in the flesh!

With that said Im not a KS fan and I avoid it like the plague.

Its great to see dakka involved in this project and I wish you the best of luck with the KS.
When this hits retail I will have a look into it, specially the rules.

 GrimDork wrote:
I'm sure there's lots of good scifi out there but the covers and synopses tend to do squat for hooking me. Most I've taken a chance on just turn me off and I get buyers remorse. I bought the MEdge novels because of the tie-in but so far I'm quite enjoying them on their own and I'm glad of the purchase for once!

I agree wholeheartedly with this one. I bought the first book out of curiosity and to throw a bit of support towards all the hard work you've all put in, but the world and writing are both really top notch stuff and will have me coming back for more. Even if I never play the game, the series will continue to be on the reading list

Well. Time to sniff that Maelstrom dust and get some Karists.

Ash points out a good point with the Twilight Hammer deal, still...

Pretty armor!

Besides, it seems they lend themselves well to paint.

Thanks for all the kind words, especially the kind words on the novels. If you are enjoying or have enjoyed the novels, please do leave us feedback on the amazon pages for the novels as we get a lot more random people picking up the books if there are a bunch of positive reviews associated with them, which in turn will allow us to drive the universe forwards faster and easier.

I appreciate that there is a backlog of questions in this thread now - we are bogged down preparing for the kickstarter to Launch in the very very near future, but will go back through the thread and answer the unanswered questions soon!

Who's that mean looking, bald guy?

He looks like a bouncer from a East London night club

I'll leave the book a review as soon as I'm done reading so I can give a proper feel. The authors could always put a twist that enrages me by the end (doubt it though)

 GrimDork wrote:
I'll leave the book a review as soon as I'm done reading so I can give a proper feel. The authors could always put a twist that enrages me by the end (doubt it though)

"We'really all just playing pieces in some manchild's game!"

"DUH."

ENDSCENE.

Begin Grimdork's rage
.

 malfred wrote:

 GrimDork wrote:
I'll leave the book a review as soon as I'm done reading so I can give a proper feel. The authors could always put a twist that enrages me by the end (doubt it though)

"We'really all just playing pieces in some manchild's game!"

"DUH."

ENDSCENE.

Begin Grimdork's rage
.

Oh god, its Turn Signals on a Land Raider, the book.

I'd probably buy that actually now that I think about it

Remember what happened when TSOALR tried to sell their books though..

Like the artwork on the books by the way (especially the first one), very evocative.

 warboss wrote:

 the clone wrote:
when do they go on sale?

First page, first post. Kickstarter around the end of this month (unless that has been revised since).

As well as this, has there been any discussion yet of prices? Both for the starter set and a standard pack of plastics (however they will be divided?)

There have been no retail prices put out yet as they wont be fixed until we can factor in how effective the kickstarter is at mitigating risk and estimating potential volume more accurately.

In general terms, we want to get the prices at a point where impulse purchases are realistic, yet will still ensure we dont take an overall loss on the production, plastic sculpting, tooling, packing, distribution, etc.

I can guarantee that the kickstarter sweet spot will be better value than buying all the constituents at retail so that those who back us at this early stage are rewarded financially as well as getting the product earlier than anyone else.

Pacific, here's a partial quote from earlier in the thread addressing the question of Kickstarter (not retail) pricing:

 legoburner wrote:

bbb wrote:What will the Kickstarter "sweet spot" be in terms of pledging to get the most bang for your buck?

It is highly likely that the sweet spot will be $110, though we'll have a lot of options above and below that to fit whatever amount people are comfortable spending.

I'm guessing more on the Kickstarter pricing will be revealed later this week, though, since that's when Salute hits!

I'm making room in my glass cabinet for this game by shuffling some 40k stuff out. Dakka, don't let me down!